proof of residence for British passport renewal

[ramrod711]

I think the government made a mistake, they should have encouraged Chaturon to leave and prevented him from returning. Odds are, most of his assets are already abroad, and a lot of his friends as well.

[Yunla]

We applaud the authorities for taking steps to tackle corruption, but then we ask why a person who works for an overseas fugitive criminal might have his passports revoked. Maybe there is an ongoing investigation into overseas trips between certain persons and a certain notorious fugitive criminal, who recently had his passports revoked too. If a person defends their boss and continues to work for / visit that boss, knowing this boss is a fugitive criminal, perhaps they should expect to be tarred with the same brush as the wanted fugitive himself, in an era of gradually (and hopefully) increasing corruption-purges.

It would make more sense for politicians who formerly supported the fugitive, to accept that this particular frigate is no longer sailing, and for them to form a new party, with reasonable and sincere policies to help the agrarian communities they claim to represent. To stay loyal to a party that is tainted with corruption and scandals, and led by a wanted criminal, is not the most straightforward way to avoid problems or to make progress on useful political projects in the future.

[jayboy]

We applaud the authorities for taking steps to tackle corruption, but then we ask why a person who works for an overseas fugitive criminal might have his passports revoked. Maybe there is an ongoing investigation into overseas trips between certain persons and a certain notorious fugitive criminal, who recently had his passports revoked too. If a person defends their boss and continues to work for / visit that boss, knowing this boss is a fugitive criminal, perhaps they should expect to be tarred with the same brush as the wanted fugitive himself, in an era of gradually (and hopefully) increasing corruption-purges.

It would make more sense for politicians who formerly supported the fugitive, to accept that this particular frigate is no longer sailing, and for them to form a new party, with reasonable and sincere policies to help the agrarian communities they claim to represent. To stay loyal to a party that is tainted with corruption and scandals, and led by a wanted criminal, is not the most straightforward way to avoid problems or to make progress on useful political projects in the future.

By the same logic all those who voted for a party associated with The Great Beast should also have their passports confiscated.Only "good" people should be allowed to travel.Facetious of course but it underlines the absurdity of your argument.

One might as well suggest that Democrats should dissolve the party in view of its association with military dictatorship, murder of civilian demonstrators, fascist agitators etc - and then form a new party untainted by scandal.

As an aside most apologists for repression seem to be barely literate.You can obviously put a sentence together which makes your pernicious nonsense more chilling.

[Yunla]

We applaud the authorities for taking steps to tackle corruption, but then we ask why a person who works for an overseas fugitive criminal might have his passports revoked. Maybe there is an ongoing investigation into overseas trips between certain persons and a certain notorious fugitive criminal, who recently had his passports revoked too. If a person defends their boss and continues to work for / visit that boss, knowing this boss is a fugitive criminal, perhaps they should expect to be tarred with the same brush as the wanted fugitive himself, in an era of gradually (and hopefully) increasing corruption-purges.

It would make more sense for politicians who formerly supported the fugitive, to accept that this particular frigate is no longer sailing, and for them to form a new party, with reasonable and sincere policies to help the agrarian communities they claim to represent. To stay loyal to a party that is tainted with corruption and scandals, and led by a wanted criminal, is not the most straightforward way to avoid problems or to make progress on useful political projects in the future.

By the same logic all those who voted for a party associated with The Great Beast should also have their passports confiscated.Only "good" people should be allowed to travel.Facetious of course but it underlines the absurdity of your argument.

One might as well suggest that Democrats should dissolve the party in view of its association with military dictatorship, murder of civilian demonstrators, fascist agitators etc - and then form a new party untainted by scandal.

As an aside most apologists for repression seem to be barely literate.You can obviously put a sentence together which makes your pernicious nonsense more chilling.

I'm actually flattered by your closing comment, and I thank you. I have cerebral palsy, so I am always quite proud of myself when my rickety hands finish typing anything longer than Tweets. Obviously I don't think the sentences I write are anything special, but they are at least my honest opinion, with no agenda or cause at all. The world will do whatever it wants, I just observe it and occasionally document it.

I'm not an apologist for repression, but I am trying to remain level-headed and practical in the face of the chaotic situation in recent years here. It is my personal preference that I like law-and-order and security. I did not feel that those things were forthcoming under the PTP. My political views as they are, I have always said I would rather live in a police-state than in a brigandry state. Obviously those are the two extremes, and I would like it better in the middle, if society was well-regulated and secure, but also free and fair.

On the passports, I think it is only fair if he is at least told why they were revoked. But we don't know the details, maybe there is an ongoing investigation of which this is part.

This isn't about the Dems, but I agree with you, after so much turbulence and problems, what is needed is not only new parties, but new leadership who actually want to move away from the past. My main issue with PTP is that they are monopolicy, they are the party of one man. Being shackled to this one person, anchored forever to the past, does irreparable harm to the sincere and realistic issues that many PTP-voters are concerned with. A new party with new leadership, to represent those issues, should have emerged years ago. Even if we ignore the criminal stuff, it isn't healthy to build a party around one man, and tailor the party policies around his waywardness.

[rubl]

Chaturon the hero, fighter for his type of democracy ?

2015-03-11

"Chaturon said freezing money of those who publicly opposed the coup and refused to report to the NCPO is a tactic meant to prevent people like himself from using their financial resources to mount anti-coup activities."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807564-falling-out-with-the-ncpo-can-be-costly/

2015-02-14

"FORMER justice minister Chaturon Chaisang, who is facing the military court for refusing to answer a summons from the military junta, has asked the Criminal Court to review if the military court has the jurisdiction to put him on trial. He also asked the military court to forward his petition to the Constitutional Court to consider if the case against him is legal or not."

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/800252-chaturons-lawyers-seek-review-of-military-courts-jurisdiction

2015-01-25

"Former education minister Chaturon Chaisang Sunday posted a message on his Facebook wall, strongly crticising the impeachment against former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794701-chaturon-says-yinglucks-impeachment-violated-democratic-rule-of-law-principles/

And what exactly is the point you are making? I don't object to people - however misguided - supporting this government but trying to make an issue of Chaturon ( generally accepted as honest and capable man) places you on indefensible ground.

For one the government doesn't make an issue of Chatuporn. Chatuporn is on a mission to provoke, almost like a few posters here.

As for 'generally accepted', well he was a former Minister of Education, the head of one of the 'finer' ministries and the one with the single largest budget.

As for passport revocation as we have in this topic, the Netherlands government can revoke a passport when someone joins the terrorist orginisation IS or makes plans to do so. A law is being formulated to automatically revoke a passport when someone is put under travel restrictions by the Ministry of Justice on request of the police. Democratically so.

Your previous reply to me with "I'm sure the quislings in Soviet dominated Eastern Europe in say 1975 would be unable to imagine in their wildest dreams what would happen ten years later. " seems to imply you forgot about all those learned gentlemen in Britain who having studied at great universities like Cambridge and Hull were able to explain why the invasion in Hungary in 1956, Checoslovakia 1969 and a bit solidarity in Poland was for the good of the common workers and a show of anti-fascism.

Chatuporn has been provoking the junta and now seems at a loss as to why they don't like that.

[jayboy]

Chaturon the hero, fighter for his type of democracy ?

2015-03-11

"Chaturon said freezing money of those who publicly opposed the coup and refused to report to the NCPO is a tactic meant to prevent people like himself from using their financial resources to mount anti-coup activities."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807564-falling-out-with-the-ncpo-can-be-costly/

2015-02-14

"FORMER justice minister Chaturon Chaisang, who is facing the military court for refusing to answer a summons from the military junta, has asked the Criminal Court to review if the military court has the jurisdiction to put him on trial. He also asked the military court to forward his petition to the Constitutional Court to consider if the case against him is legal or not."

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/800252-chaturons-lawyers-seek-review-of-military-courts-jurisdiction

2015-01-25

"Former education minister Chaturon Chaisang Sunday posted a message on his Facebook wall, strongly crticising the impeachment against former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794701-chaturon-says-yinglucks-impeachment-violated-democratic-rule-of-law-principles/

And what exactly is the point you are making? I don't object to people - however misguided - supporting this government but trying to make an issue of Chaturon ( generally accepted as honest and capable man) places you on indefensible ground.

For one the government doesn't make an issue of Chatuporn. Chatuporn is on a mission to provoke, almost like a few posters here.

As for 'generally accepted', well he was a former Minister of Education, the head of one of the 'finer' ministries and the one with the single largest budget.

As for passport revocation as we have in this topic, the Netherlands government can revoke a passport when someone joins the terrorist orginisation IS or makes plans to do so. A law is being formulated to automatically revoke a passport when someone is put under travel restrictions by the Ministry of Justice on request of the police. Democratically so.

Your previous reply to me with "I'm sure the quislings in Soviet dominated Eastern Europe in say 1975 would be unable to imagine in their wildest dreams what would happen ten years later. " seems to imply you forgot about all those learned gentlemen in Britain who having studied at great universities like Cambridge and Hull were able to explain why the invasion in Hungary in 1956, Checoslovakia 1969 and a bit solidarity in Poland was for the good of the common workers and a show of anti-fascism.

Chatuporn has been provoking the junta and now seems at a loss as to why they don't like that.

1.There is no moral obligation to appease the Junta.In fact there is a moral obligation to challenge it.

2.Chaturon's ethical record is excellent and your attempt to smear degrades you.

3.I don't see how the Dutch treatment of terrorists is relevant to anything.As you well know in Holland Chaturon would be an honoured citizen while senior army officers involved in a coup would be serving a sentence in jail.

4.Your comments on the Cambridge Spies seem incoherent.

[ramrod711]

His passports were revoked for criticising the government! In ten years time who will be regarded as a hero and who will be regarded as pond scum?

Any MP that voted for the amnesty bill is pond scum, no matter what party they "represent".

http://asiancorrespondent.com/115206/how-thai-mps-voted-on-the-amnesty-bill/

[rubl]

Chaturon the hero, fighter for his type of democracy ?

2015-03-11

"Chaturon said freezing money of those who publicly opposed the coup and refused to report to the NCPO is a tactic meant to prevent people like himself from using their financial resources to mount anti-coup activities."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807564-falling-out-with-the-ncpo-can-be-costly/

2015-02-14

"FORMER justice minister Chaturon Chaisang, who is facing the military court for refusing to answer a summons from the military junta, has asked the Criminal Court to review if the military court has the jurisdiction to put him on trial. He also asked the military court to forward his petition to the Constitutional Court to consider if the case against him is legal or not."

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/800252-chaturons-lawyers-seek-review-of-military-courts-jurisdiction

2015-01-25

"Former education minister Chaturon Chaisang Sunday posted a message on his Facebook wall, strongly crticising the impeachment against former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794701-chaturon-says-yinglucks-impeachment-violated-democratic-rule-of-law-principles/

And what exactly is the point you are making? I don't object to people - however misguided - supporting this government but trying to make an issue of Chaturon ( generally accepted as honest and capable man) places you on indefensible ground.

For one the government doesn't make an issue of Chatuporn. Chatuporn is on a mission to provoke, almost like a few posters here.

As for 'generally accepted', well he was a former Minister of Education, the head of one of the 'finer' ministries and the one with the single largest budget.

As for passport revocation as we have in this topic, the Netherlands government can revoke a passport when someone joins the terrorist orginisation IS or makes plans to do so. A law is being formulated to automatically revoke a passport when someone is put under travel restrictions by the Ministry of Justice on request of the police. Democratically so.

Your previous reply to me with "I'm sure the quislings in Soviet dominated Eastern Europe in say 1975 would be unable to imagine in their wildest dreams what would happen ten years later. " seems to imply you forgot about all those learned gentlemen in Britain who having studied at great universities like Cambridge and Hull were able to explain why the invasion in Hungary in 1956, Checoslovakia 1969 and a bit solidarity in Poland was for the good of the common workers and a show of anti-fascism.

Chatuporn has been provoking the junta and now seems at a loss as to why they don't like that.

1.There is no moral obligation to appease the Junta.In fact there is a moral obligation to challenge it.

2.Chaturon's ethical record is excellent and your attempt to smear degrades you.

3.I don't see how the Dutch treatment of terrorists is relevant to anything.As you well know in Holland Chaturon would be an honoured citizen while senior army officers involved in a coup would be serving a sentence in jail.

4.Your comments on the Cambridge Spies seem incoherent.

Interestingly on the 5th of September 1915 the Zimmerwald Conference started.

BTW in 2012 as MP Chaturon stated 'if you want this constitution to be democratic you have to do a drastic change. He referred to the 2007 version of course.

""Street politics is going to play a greater role again," says Chaturon. "The Red Shirt movement has already shown that street politics is crucial to change and I believe that if (Pheu Thai) wins, they will be there to protect that government, even during the process of constitutional amendment.""

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/red-shirts-to-colour-thailands-future/story-e6frg6so-1225854707517

PS hardly two months ago we had

"But former education minister and key Pheu Thai Party member Chaturon Chaisang said the idea of imposing a retroactive political ban for life on politicians removed from office was politically motivated."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Corrupt-politicians-should-face-jail-and-lifetime--30264732.html

Edited September 5, 2015 by rubl

[jayboy]

His passports were revoked for criticising the government! In ten years time who will be regarded as a hero and who will be regarded as pond scum?

Any MP that voted for the amnesty bill is pond scum, no matter what party they "represent".

http://asiancorrespondent.com/115206/how-thai-mps-voted-on-the-amnesty-bill/

They were certainly in error but unlike those who overthrew democracy they had some legitimacy.There's a difference.

Having said that my main objection to the ill considered amnesty was the complete lack of transparency.

[rubl]

His passports were revoked for criticising the government! In ten years time who will be regarded as a hero and who will be regarded as pond scum?

Actually the picture is a bit more complicated than that, but if you'd read the remarks made by Chaturon when he was refused permission to travel a few months back you'd know that. Also, he behaved as the normal "Pheu Thai' pain-in-the-podex before.

As for 'pond scum', who knows.

BTW

""I will have to ask for a clear explanation in order to regain my rights,""

which rights is Chatuporn referring to?

I'm sure there is a complicated background but the reason advanced for cancellation of passports is crystal clear.

I'm not sure why you seem to sympathise with the regime in terms of its treatment of people it finds awkward.I would have thought all patriotic Thais have a duty to resist and frustrate the current military government.

I'm sure the quislings in Soviet dominated Eastern Europe in say 1975 would be unable to imagine in their wildest dreams what would happen ten years later.

So, no one seems to know which rights Chatuporn is referring to ?