I closed my business in thailand and saw surprising effects....

[Estrada]

Just a small off topic recommendation. When drafting work correspondence where you are comparing things, you might want to use more than rather than more then as the meanings are very diffe

How is your post contributing to this topic?

I agree. Many posters are not native English speakers. We all know that he meant "than" and not "then".

To add to that his own grammar leads a lot to be desired:

Where possible you should use a simple word over a complex word. Simple words are easier to read and let your readers focus on your ideas.

Replace "rather than" with:

•and not

•not

•than

I thought that the moderators would have deleted his thoughtless comment.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Estrada

[Graemej100]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

We can only assume you were not paying taxes in Thailand either for your business activity, considering you were also subverting the visa / work permit process... Lucky you left when you did, I hear the monkey house is not a nice place...

I think you've done the right thing. Doing work here is an absolute pain and it is so expensive and time consuming to get the 'paperwork' right. It's frustrating and certainly not conducive to to making work pleasurable - which it should be. This can be the most unwelcoming place at times.

I think it was a great post and, in spite of the 'knockers' like Loptr and Tolsti (sounds like the names of two Trolls from The Hobbit) who seem to excel and enjoy finding the negative in everything - good on you.

[ericthai]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

I say you are a troll. You say you didnt apply for a work permit because your expat staff would only work for 5-7 months. Why would they only work for such a short period when so many expats are looking for good jobs.

I have owned and operated a company in Thailand for almost 9 years now. Work permits take between 1-2 weeks to get if you qualify and they only cost 3000B much less than the $300 you say you pay in Cambodia. Thailand is not closed to foreigners at all. Prior to owning my company I worked in the Petrochemical industry in Thailand and there are allot of expats working in factories here in Thailand. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[casualbiker]

In Cambodia to work legally in country you need a work permit as well as the "business visa".

I wonder how much cost and hassle they are to get. Anyone with first hand experience know?

[ericthai]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

I didn't start this post to discuss if my business was legal or no, I started it to refute the claims of some TVs members who thinks that back to back visa runners are useless to the economy this post was started to show what impact it does to the local economy.

when i decided to sell all my SET and move out of Thailand I was astonished to see more then 20 foreign customers who all wanted to sell their SET stocks and they were a rush to all out everything, months later the whole SET went down and the baht sank to its lowest level so I reckon that entrepreneurs like me do have a huge impact here whether legal or no.

Wow your post just gets funnier. So you decide to move out of Thailand, sell all your investments through the SET and because you do this 20 other expats did the same things and this is what caused the SET to fall to it's lowest level. Nothing else contributed to this, it's just all from you... 555

[steven100]

Well good for you ..... bye bye , don't forget to write !!!

[blackcab]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

I say you are a troll. You say you didnt apply for a work permit because your expat staff would only work for 5-7 months. Why would they only work for such a short period when so many expats are looking for good jobs.

I have owned and operated a company in Thailand for almost 9 years now. Work permits take between 1-2 weeks to get if you qualify and they only cost 3000B much less than the $300 you say you pay in Cambodia. Thailand is not closed to foreigners at all. Prior to owning my company I worked in the Petrochemical industry in Thailand and there are allot of expats working in factories here in Thailand. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Taxes are lower in Cambodia though. Maximum 20% income tax and 20% corporation tax. No capital gains tax.

Not that the OP appears to pay direct taxes.

[55Jay]

The Expat Trilogy!

Part 1: Thailand sucks and it's all their fault I can't spell, much less perform, due diligence about a country that even my grandmother without an internet connection knows is a corrupt, petty fiefdom presently run by goons in army uniforms. I mean, like, OMG, WHO KNEW? #SoSurprised! #I'mSoLeaving

Part 2: I'm leaving and taking all my money and jobs with me. They're going to sooooo miss me when I'm gone. #UrGunnaBSorry!

Part 3: I'm gone. I'm so smart and you suckers back there are soooo dumb and lazy! Told you you would miss me! You do miss me, right? Come on, admit it.... You miss me. Shit, hold on, let me check the Electric billing for my old office building. AAAAHHH HA HA HA, my old office is still empty! See! I knew the whole place would go to hell when I left.

#NeenerNeenerNeeee Ner!

#I'mAGenius

[chumpy]

Did all these poor Thai staff that lost their jobs know that your business was run around foreign illegal workers?

Did all these people know that you were running a completely illegal business? With non-tax paying foreign staff?

Do you think Thailand is here for your to reap the rewards and not pay in a single Baht to the system?

I hope your legal competitors are cracking open the champagne right now!

If you were in the UK for example you could be facing a 10000 GBP fine for every one of those illegal workers you employed..

Good luck in Cambodia.

Mr Satcommlee please read the supplied information well before making your simple comments,and please pay extra attention to the part : the foreign workers were only staying for short periods.I love these self righteous upstanding citizens who have no idea what it's like to do business here but have all sorts of dumb comments to make.

[natway09]

You obviously never followed the rules from day one & now you bitch & grizzle about the situation from afar

I bet you or your 6 foreign workers never paid 1 bht in tax all the time you operated here nor never intended to.

Oh, have run & operated a business here for 23 years (46 Thai & 3 farang)

So you want to operate a business but if you did so from your home country rules would need to be obeyed. Now I see.

Enjoy Cambodia. do not be seen outwardly to be too successful there or you will loose everything in particular

again if you do not follow the rules

[villagefarang]

If the only way to run your business or keep up with the competition is to break the law and cheat, then either it is not a very good business or you are not a very good businessman. Illegal business is the realm of criminals and there is a price to be paid if you get caught.

[henkie220358]

Cambodia is now starting to get serious requiring foreigners to have work permits. So what is OP going to do then once the same situation happens in Cambodia- move to Africa?

No he is going to Nigeria

[clasship]

I understand why you left Thailand and went to Cambodia, marcofunny. Its impossible to get anything to work here in Thailand with their red tape and corruption. I wouldnt invest one satang here ...

and for some odd reason many expats here simply refuse to acknowledge that expats, visa runners etc. contribute to the economy of Thailand ... strange people indeed

There is allot of jealousy on this forum, people are just plain jealous of those that try to make a go of it themselves without giving in to being a pathetic English teacher with no degree. It is amazing the expert advice here from people have never opened or started a company of their own in Thailand or anywhere

The OP is not the only one on this post that has not followed the law 100% but probably the only one brave enough to post about it

If everyone was above board there would be no need for a forum because you would all be angels

[Bulldozer Dawn]

We can only assume you were not paying taxes in Thailand either for your business activity, considering you were also subverting the visa / work permit process... Lucky you left when you did, I hear the monkey house is not a nice place...

I 've never heard about any country in the world where you can conduct business 100% free of charge without paying some direct or indirect taxes and the indirect local taxes that I was contributing were more than 5 million baht per annum which is a lot considering the small size of my business.

besides NY city which is considered to be one of the wealthiest city in the world have more than 15% of its workforce illegal and many top economists concluded that deporting them will cause a massive stock-market collapse, the same goes for Italy which has 20% of its GDP coming out from illegal foreigners as for Thailand it s either share the cake or they will be no cake at all.

some TV members are clapping their hands and cheering each time a new regulation restricting visas comes into effect and targeting those visa runners which they consider them to be a sort of unwanted pest, let me tell you that when the Chinese becomes very dominant here they will close all other businesses which cater to westerners, surprisingly last month I was refused a hotel room in a luxury resort in koh samet simply because they said that their Chinese customers don't want to have any other nationalities in their resort even the restaurant was closed to westerners note that this hotel is 10K per night.

I had lunch with an old girlfriend yesterday who is now managing a large group of villas in Phuket. She told me that there are continually problems in the restaurant on the property now because the bulk of the 22 villas are booked by chinese with just a few by non asian foreigners. The non asian foreigners come to the breakfast buffet which is being ransacked by the chinese and are horrified at what they see, and as a result, are requesting a refund so they can move to other accommodation. They have now implemented a policy were all non chinese guests have to eat breakfast in their villa. Aparthied is alive and well in Thailand it would seem.

Everyone in business here should ask themselves the question what happens if America goes to war with China and Thailand sides with the later?

Edited September 14, 2015 by Bulldozer Dawn

[DLang]

Sounds like BS story by someone all worked-up and angry at the nasty visa regulations placed against him: rolleyes:

You keep fighting the fight, brother, how dare the little brown fellas dictate to you, the white man, what you can and cannot do, where you can and cannot go.

[marcofunny]

In Cambodia to work legally in country you need a work permit as well as the "business visa".

I wonder how much cost and hassle they are to get. Anyone with first hand experience know?

wp costs between 100-150$ and must apply through an agent and the price is negotiable depending on quantity.

[clasship]

There are far too many posters which are predictably negative as well as ignorant, all from the same people virtually day after day. It's a shame that so many ex pats on here spoil for others what could have and should have been a great forum. I know friends who refuse to contribute anything on this forum; purely out of for fear of these sad individuals. Thailand and Thais are what they are, try accepting this. Life has always been what you make it, the bottom line is if you don't like living in Thailand, do everyone a favour including yourselves and move on. Like so many others; we dont want to hear your constant moans and groans including snipes at other posters.

[casualbiker]

In Cambodia to work legally in country you need a work permit as well as the "business visa".

I wonder how much cost and hassle they are to get. Anyone with first hand experience know?

wp costs between 100-150$ and must apply through an agent and the price is negotiable depending on quantity.

You MUST apply through an agent!

[The Beguiled]

"I could be just as "clever" as you and avoid paying the 35% tax I pay here in Thailand".

"So the OP is/was a criminal, positively withholding tax revenue whilst illegally employing illegal aliens"

Many responses seem to miss the Thailand double standards.

"The prevailing business practice for SMEs is to keep two accounts — one for internal use and another for tax purposes that understates revenue. (Please credit and share this article with others using this link:http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/news/690148/more-sme-aid-tax-cuts-in-the-works)"

Thailand has 2.7 million SME and most don't pay the correct taxes or taxes at all and how many of the 2 million+ illegals from Lao, Cambodia and Myanmar are employed by Thai company's.

Why persecute marcofunny when there are millions of Thai's in Thailand that are doing the same or at greater Baht amounts!

Just look at the Luxury car market as an example of Thai cheating the system.

10,000+ new vehicles sold over 3,000,000 Baht per year yet there are less than 2,400 Thai tax payers paying 3,000,000 baht a year in tax!

Who are the real cheats or criminals?

"I could be just as "clever" as you and avoid paying the 35% tax I pay here in Thailand. Somehow - I just don't fancy the life of a criminal!"

Amazing Thailand

[Thaidream]

There are several separate issues regarding this post, some of which involve visas, paying the proper taxes and work permits as well as having the freedom for an entrepreneurial start up. Actually, Cambodia now is as Thailand was 40 years ago. It is much easier to start up a business as the OP describes in Cambodia because of lax laws and the fact that Cambodia needs the business much more than Thailand. Thailand is becoming much more xenophobic- proper visas, work permits and paying your taxes. You can still open a business here but you have to go through the steps to be legal. If you don't have the resources or wherewithal to be able to do this- Thailand is not for you. This is especially true in this point in history where Thailand is attempting to enter the industrialized world and shed its Third World image. The Coup and the Bangkok bombing are actually going to speed up this process as well as Asean integration and the Trans Pacific Initiative which Thailand will surely join. In addition, the whole tourism industry is shifting away from Westerners to Asian (China and India) The truth is that Thailand does not care if we come here, retire here or open some start up business that does not benefit a great deal of people. In addition, they don't want people living here on 30 day entry stamps, tourist Visa's or Ed Visa's. It's just a fact- I am not criticizing those who do or their reasons.

If I was just starting out on an adventure or a business, knowing what I know now- I probably would give Thailand a miss. The reason being- I left the industrialized World of stress and government interference in my life to come to a place where there was no stress and people lived and let live. Thailand is becoming like the West- too regulated; too much stress in some places and too bureaucratic. It's business model is materialistic capitalism, which will eventually be its demise.And yes, I will remain here until the end.

[onni4me]

People who call OP criminal etc. have probably never tried any real business here in LOS.

Against every foreigner working you need to hire 4 Thais to be cleaners or whatever with a good salary contributing nothing since you don't have any use of them in your special type of work. Good side is that the office will stay immaculately clean.

Paying all the paperwork is expensive, slow and a pain in the ass and the WP only applies to one location so God forbid if you move around! And it just makes you loose more money when workers come and go in short time frame to just start the process again.

So, according to the smart asses here, it is beneficial to hire people just so the law can be followed to a letter? And when some easier rules are somewhere else should just stick to the corrupt nightmare called Thai bureaucratic system?

It's about business and so I do understand the OP. It's all about the bottom line. Not about running around with paperwork. One has more things to attend to besides that.

[merlen10002]

Total BS if anyone believes the OP nonsense needs to have their brain fixed.

[DLang]

It's a shame that so many ex pats on here spoil for others what could have and should have been a great forum. I know friends who refuse to contribute anything on this forum; purely out of for fear of these sad individuals.

Laugh Of The Day.

Thanks.

[mikiea]

Just a small off topic recommendation. When drafting work correspondence where you are comparing things, you might want to use “more than” rather than “more then” as the meanings are very different.

you are part of the reason why we are not liked , to many pseudo smart peeps that could not make it at home . throwing advice around and being the grammar police when not needed is the mark of a putz . ........

[thaiduncankk]

Has CVF (Cambodia Visa Forum) got as many trolls as TVF ?

[fred Kubasa]

The author is, regretably, quite correct in that businesses/foreigners/tourists/ even Thais, are fleeing Thailand at an alarming rate which, apparently,Thai authorities haven't even noticed. They simple refuse to concentrate on what's happening as opposed to time consuming/expensive/unplanned Blue Sky

projects to take place in an uncertain nimber of years and. possibly,

decades, when few will be here to enjoy them or, more importantly, to

PAY FOR THEM ! ! Will the last one here please turn out the lights and put up the " Out Of Business " sign ! !

[villagefarang]

I have been listening to the gloom and doom soothsayers for forty years now and Thailand is still here, still growing and people are still lining up to come here. Some can make it here and some can’t and that is the way it has always been. Adapt or move on, it really is that simple. No use being a failure in a place you don’t even like. I am sure the OP and all concerned are glad he left, or at the very least, he is not missed.

[villagefarang]

Just a small off topic recommendation. When drafting work correspondence where you are comparing things, you might want to use “more than” rather than “more then” as the meanings are very different.

you are part of the reason why we are not liked , to many pseudo smart peeps that could not make it at home . throwing advice around and being the grammar police when not needed is the mark of a putz . ........

[Don Mega]

The author is, regretably, quite correct in that businesses/foreigners/tourists/ even Thais, are fleeing Thailand at an alarming rate which, apparently,Thai authorities haven't even noticed. They simple refuse to concentrate on what's happening as opposed to time consuming/expensive/unplanned Blue Sky

projects to take place in an uncertain nimber of years and. possibly,

decades, when few will be here to enjoy them or, more importantly, to

PAY FOR THEM ! ! Will the last one here please turn out the lights and put up the " Out Of Business " sign ! !

The OP was dodgy and circumventing the system.... if he did not exist in the system how would the Thai authorities even know he shut up shop and left ?

[clasship]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

We can only assume you were not paying taxes in Thailand either for your business activity, considering you were also subverting the visa / work permit process... Lucky you left when you did, I hear the monkey house is not a nice place...

I think you've done the right thing. Doing work here is an absolute pain and it is so expensive and time consuming to get the 'paperwork' right. It's frustrating and certainly not conducive to to making work pleasurable - which it should be. This can be the most unwelcoming place at times.

I think it was a great post and, in spite of the 'knockers' like Loptr and Tolsti (sounds like the names of two Trolls from The Hobbit) who seem to excel and enjoy finding the negative in everything - good on you.