At least 12 killed when Egyptian forces fire on group of Mexican tourists

[webfact]

Egyptian forces mistakenly fire on desert safari, killing 12

CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian forces hunting militants in the country's western desert mistakenly opened fire on Mexican tourists on safari, killing 12 people and dealing a further blow to the government's efforts to project an image of stability as it fights an increasingly powerful insurgency, officials said Monday.

Egyptian officials said the group did not have permission to be in the area, but have not offered a full account of Sunday's incident, in which another 10 people were wounded. Mexico's President Enrique Pena Nieto condemned the attack and demanded a full investigation, and his foreign minister said survivors told officials they were fired upon by helicopters and other aircraft.

By late Monday, Mexico's ambassador to Egypt, Jorge Alvarez Fuentes, told local media that two dead Mexican citizens have been identified as Luis Barajas Fernandez and Maria de Lourdes Fernandez Rubio. A third Mexican citizen, Rafael Bejarano, was confirmed dead by his sister, who said she had been informed of his death by his travelling companions.

With six Mexicans wounded, that would at least leave five unaccounted for, as reports vary on whether there were 14 or 15 tourists in the group.

The incident, among the deadliest involving tourists in Egypt, comes as the country is trying to revive its vital tourism industry after the turmoil following the 2011 uprising that toppled President Hosni Mubarak.

Egypt has mainly been battling insurgents in the northern Sinai Peninsula, on the other side of the country, where Islamic militants stepped up attacks on security forces after the military ousted Islamist President Mohammed Morsi in 2013 amid massive protests against his rule.

But in recent months, militants loyal to the Islamic State have carried out a series of attacks in more central parts of the country, including the bombing of the Italian Consulate in Cairo and the kidnapping and beheading of a Croatian oil surveyor who was working in the capital.

The Mexican Foreign Ministry said victims were still being identified. Mexican Foreign Secretary Claudia Ruiz Massieu said Mexicans wounded in the attack told their ambassador they were fired upon by helicopters and aircraft.

Mona el-Bakri, the spokeswoman for the Dar al-Fouad hospital where the wounded were being treated, said two of the seven Mexicans receiving treatment also hold American citizenship. A State Department official said an American woman was injured. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, declined to say more because the woman had not waived her privacy rights.

Egypt's Interior Ministry said in a statement that a joint military-police force was pursuing "terrorist elements" in the area and fired on four vehicles that turned out to be carrying tourists. The ministry said the victims were Egyptian and Mexican.

Egyptian officials claimed the safari convoy had wandered into a restricted area. The tour company involved "did not have permits and did not inform authorities," Rasha Azazi, a spokeswoman for the Egyptian Ministry of Tourism, told The Associated Press, adding that any trips to that area must be cleared by officials. "They were not supposed to be there," she said, without providing further information about the incident.

At a press conference in Mexico City, Egypt's Ambassador Yasser Shaban suggested that the Egyptian troops were confused because vehicles used by the tourists were "similar to those used by terrorists." He, however, did not repeat earlier assertions that the tourists were in an off-limits area.

Mexico's ambassador to Egypt told local Radio Formula over the phone that the tourists "had made a stop to rest and eat and continue on their way to one of the oases," when they came under attack. Alvarez said the six hospitalized Mexicans were in stable condition.

Egypt's military spokesman Brig. Gen. Mohammed Samir said he was not authorized to speak on the matter, and Interior Ministry officials have not responded to numerous requests for comment.

Hamada Hashem, a desert guide living in a nearby village who witnessed the strike, said the case appeared to have been linked to the kidnapping of a local resident named Saleh Qassim Said by militants two days earlier. Hashem said police and local residents, including himself, mounted a rescue operation, but the heavily armed militants drove them off. The police then asked the military to get involved, he said.

On Sunday the Islamic State group's Egypt affiliate circulated photos purportedly showing clashes with security forces and what it said was the beheaded body of Said, whom it accused of being a spy for the security services, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, a U.S.-based group that monitors militant websites.

Hashem said local security forces advise against going to the desert areas around his village, but they often turn a blind eye, knowing how important the safaris are to the local economy.

"The army says don't go there, but they know that we can't find anything to eat, so when (a tourist) comes, we resist (the military), say 'no, we will go,' and go," Hashem said. "After what I have seen, I will not spend the night in the desert again."

Gabriela Bejarano said her brother Rafael was killed in the attack. She denied claims the group was not authorized to be in the area.

"That's not true. I have been there twice, the controls are very strict. You can't have a tourism agency, or even be a tourist guide, without a government license," she told reporters in the Mexican city of Guadalajara. She said Rafael had also been to Egypt before.

She said the guide for the trip was Nabil El Tamawi. A profile on the website of Windows of Egypt Tours, which offers safaris in the western desert, says El Tamawi has been leading Spanish and Latin American groups since 1990, and specializes in leading groups interested in meditation.

Rachael Stewart, a business partner of Rafael Bejarano who lives in San Clemente, California, said the tour group of around 15 people was organized by Bejarano's mother, Marisela, who is recovering from wounds sustained in the attack. Stewart said the trip was planned as a sort of spiritual retreat, and that Marisela organized similar trips about every year-and-a-half.

Rafael Bejarano, 41, had lived in San Clemente for about three years and was a self-described shaman, faith healer, and player of the didgeridoo — a long, wooden horn from Australia.

"He touched everybody with his heart, with his music, with his soul," Stewart told The Associated Press.

Bejarano's Facebook page showed photos of him playing the didgeridoo in front of the pyramids at Giza, working as an activist to improve the lives of Mexico's Huichol people, and visiting an indigenous tribe in the Amazon jungle of Ecuador. He also performed a "shamanic healing concert" in Mission Viejo.

Egypt's western desert has long been a popular safari destination, with tourists flocking to its verdant oases, unique rock formations and white sand dunes.

In recent years, however, it has been the subject of security concerns because of the long, porous border with Libya. Egypt has been flooded with weapons, mostly from Libya, since the 2011 uprising that toppled longtime Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi and plunged that country into turmoil.

Egyptian security forces frequently target smugglers in the western desert, and in July 2014, gunmen armed with rocket-propelled grenades attacked a border guard post, killing 21 troops.
___

Associated Press writers Mark Stevenson in Mexico City and Matthew Lee in Washington contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-14

[Kerryd]

The "South-Western" Desert is a long way away from the Sinai. It's literally as far from the Sinai as you can get and still be in Egypt. Not much to see over there either (unless they were at Aswan or Abu Simbel which, to me, would be the "Southern Desert").

If it was in the "South-Western" desert and they were out in the middle of nowhere they could possibly have been mistaken for Libyans. Still seems odd they would just open fire on them without being sure but then again, that area isn't exactly in the "middle of civilization" so perhaps they have a shoot first and make up a good story afterwards policy. Usually it's terrorists killing tourists.

Talk about having tourism problems - Thailand has it easy compared to what Egypt has been going through over the last few years. I was lucky I was there in '05, long before the "Arab Spring" (although I was on a Nile Cruise Boat at the same time the terrorists bombed the resort town of Sharm el Shiek on the Red Sea). I've wanted to go back again for a couple of years, but don't want to get caught up in a "to whom it may concern" incident. I'm sure their tourism sector could surely use a boost though.

[DLang]

the South-Western desert of Egypt is the last place I'd expect to stumble across 22 Mexicans.

12 dead, must have been quite a massacre, presuming the tour didn't have any weapons.

Wonder if the soldiers will be sentenced to death for murder.

[GarryP]

The "South-Western" Desert is a long way away from the Sinai. It's literally as far from the Sinai as you can get and still be in Egypt. Not much to see over there either (unless they were at Aswan or Abu Simbel which, to me, would be the "Southern Desert").

If it was in the "South-Western" desert and they were out in the middle of nowhere they could possibly have been mistaken for Libyans. Still seems odd they would just open fire on them without being sure but then again, that area isn't exactly in the "middle of civilization" so perhaps they have a shoot first and make up a good story afterwards policy. Usually it's terrorists killing tourists.

Talk about having tourism problems - Thailand has it easy compared to what Egypt has been going through over the last few years. I was lucky I was there in '05, long before the "Arab Spring" (although I was on a Nile Cruise Boat at the same time the terrorists bombed the resort town of Sharm el Shiek on the Red Sea). I've wanted to go back again for a couple of years, but don't want to get caught up in a "to whom it may concern" incident. I'm sure their tourism sector could surely use a boost though.

I went in July for a week. Spent a few days in Luxor and it was dead. Had Karnak and Luxor Temples to myself so great for taking photos. No need to wait for the other tourists to get out of the way as there were next to none there. In the Valley of the Kings I saw one other group of about 5 or 6 people, which even for the low season means tourism is pretty much dead. Our guide said we were his first customers in 3 months and with hotels closed and occupancy down to less than 10 percent, we had no reason not to believe him. Little choice in the way of food as most restaurants were closed or closed down. The guide said it had been this way in Luxor since 2011. The people are really suffering as Luxor depends on tourism.

Cairo was a bit busier, but even the so called 5 star hotel I stayed in was far from full and most of the guests were Egyptian.

One of the best holidays I have ever had despite the hardship. Being with my girlfriend on the only boat on the Nile in Luxor as the sun sets over the Valley of the Kings takes some beating.

[craigt3365]

Jeep tours are quite popular in this area. I tried to go a few years ago, but there weren't enough tourists to put a trip together. I tried for months to get it setup. This was just after the big riots in Cairo. As Garry above says, I was literally the only one in many of the tourist sights. It was very strange.

You can't go through that part of the country without an escort. Must have just been a case of mistaken identity. ISIS has claimed to be in one of the towns, so maybe the military was on high alert????

RIP to these tourists....

[MaxYakov]

They should review their rules of engagement ... if they have any.

[JHolmesJr]

Egypt has turned into Mexico.

[TooPoopedToPop]

The sooner this hideous regime falls the better.

[Borzandy]

Egypt another third world country

[Eddy B]

So sad. Go on holiday and then get shot up by police and military who it seems did not have all the relevant information before opening fire on innocent people. R.I.P. Thailand please do not follow this example!!

[manarak]

These Egyptian military are idiots they need to be court martialed and put away for a long time.

On the other hand, who right in their mind would nowadays go on holidays in the Egyptian desert ???

[elgordo38]

the South-Western desert of Egypt is the last place I'd expect to stumble across 22 Mexicans.

12 dead, must have been quite a massacre, presuming the tour didn't have any weapons.

Wonder if the soldiers will be sentenced to death for murder.

They must have something similar to article 44. They just need a little fine tuning and its back on the job again.

[Steely Dan]

It's a tragic incident which is hard to avoid when dealing with terrorist insurgencies.

Drones make similar mistakes, though In this case an aerial view of Sombreros might have given an operator a clue they were Mexican tourists not terrorists.

[manarak]

It's a tragic incident which is hard to avoid when dealing with terrorist insurgencies.

Drones make similar mistakes, though In this case an aerial view of Sombreros might have given an operator a clue they were Mexican tourists not terrorists.

So firing on civilian cars with no signs of the occupants being armed is "hard to avoid"?

Targets need to be properly scouted and identified before being fired on, except when weapons are visible.

The military needs fast recon cars - if they don't use them because they are afraid of enemy fire, I say that's cowardice.

Edited September 14, 2015 by manarak

[jerojero]

Shoot first. Ask questions later. Too bothersome to intercept? Hope murder charges are laid upon the Commander who ordered the attack.

[Shermanator]

At times, the desert to me seems to be nothing but a giant sphincter releasing nothing but feces...

[JingerBen]

Shoot first. Ask questions later. Too bothersome to intercept? Hope murder charges are laid upon the Commander who ordered the attack.

Don't bet on that ever happening.

It would provoke a backlash in the military.

[ToddinChonburi]

So were does Egypt rate on the tourist scale ? So much bitching about Thailand.

[ggt]

I hope the US Border Control does not get any ideas from this debacle...

[oneday]

Why anyone would want to be in Egypt during these troubled times, or any troubled middle eastern country, I can't for life of me understand. This should do wonders for what tourism they have left.

[copa8]

So were does Egypt rate on the tourist scale ? So much bitching about Thailand.

So true. So many on this forum bitch about every little thing in Thailand, yet feels safe/comfortable enough to still live there.

[stevenl]

Why anyone would want to be in Egypt during these troubled times, or any troubled middle eastern country, I can't for life of me understand. This should do wonders for what tourism they have left.

Very good scuba diving very close to Europe.

[JingerBen]

It's a tragic incident which is hard to avoid when dealing with terrorist insurgencies.

Drones make similar mistakes, though In this case an aerial view of Sombreros might have given an operator a clue they were Mexican tourists not terrorists.

"Tragic incident... hard to avoid... drones make similar mistakes."

Those terms sound familiar from Israeli and American military sources at their press briefings.

[darren84310]

The "South-Western" Desert is a long way away from the Sinai. It's literally as far from the Sinai as you can get and still be in Egypt. Not much to see over there either (unless they were at Aswan or Abu Simbel which, to me, would be the "Southern Desert").

If it was in the "South-Western" desert and they were out in the middle of nowhere they could possibly have been mistaken for Libyans. Still seems odd they would just open fire on them without being sure but then again, that area isn't exactly in the "middle of civilization" so perhaps they have a shoot first and make up a good story afterwards policy. Usually it's terrorists killing tourists.

Talk about having tourism problems - Thailand has it easy compared to what Egypt has been going through over the last few years. I was lucky I was there in '05, long before the "Arab Spring" (although I was on a Nile Cruise Boat at the same time the terrorists bombed the resort town of Sharm el Shiek on the Red Sea). I've wanted to go back again for a couple of years, but don't want to get caught up in a "to whom it may concern" incident. I'm sure their tourism sector could surely use a boost though.

I went in July for a week. Spent a few days in Luxor and it was dead. Had Karnak and Luxor Temples to myself so great for taking photos. No need to wait for the other tourists to get out of the way as there were next to none there. In the Valley of the Kings I saw one other group of about 5 or 6 people, which even for the low season means tourism is pretty much dead. Our guide said we were his first customers in 3 months and with hotels closed and occupancy down to less than 10 percent, we had no reason not to believe him. Little choice in the way of food as most restaurants were closed or closed down. The guide said it had been this way in Luxor since 2011. The people are really suffering as Luxor depends on tourism.

Cairo was a bit busier, but even the so called 5 star hotel I stayed in was far from full and most of the guests were Egyptian.

One of the best holidays I have ever had despite the hardship. Being with my girlfriend on the only boat on the Nile in Luxor as the sun sets over the Valley of the Kings takes some beating.

Holiday in a Muslim country... you're extremely brave, naïve or stupid... maybe all 3.

[GarryP]

The "South-Western" Desert is a long way away from the Sinai. It's literally as far from the Sinai as you can get and still be in Egypt. Not much to see over there either (unless they were at Aswan or Abu Simbel which, to me, would be the "Southern Desert").

If it was in the "South-Western" desert and they were out in the middle of nowhere they could possibly have been mistaken for Libyans. Still seems odd they would just open fire on them without being sure but then again, that area isn't exactly in the "middle of civilization" so perhaps they have a shoot first and make up a good story afterwards policy. Usually it's terrorists killing tourists.

Talk about having tourism problems - Thailand has it easy compared to what Egypt has been going through over the last few years. I was lucky I was there in '05, long before the "Arab Spring" (although I was on a Nile Cruise Boat at the same time the terrorists bombed the resort town of Sharm el Shiek on the Red Sea). I've wanted to go back again for a couple of years, but don't want to get caught up in a "to whom it may concern" incident. I'm sure their tourism sector could surely use a boost though.

I went in July for a week. Spent a few days in Luxor and it was dead. Had Karnak and Luxor Temples to myself so great for taking photos. No need to wait for the other tourists to get out of the way as there were next to none there. In the Valley of the Kings I saw one other group of about 5 or 6 people, which even for the low season means tourism is pretty much dead. Our guide said we were his first customers in 3 months and with hotels closed and occupancy down to less than 10 percent, we had no reason not to believe him. Little choice in the way of food as most restaurants were closed or closed down. The guide said it had been this way in Luxor since 2011. The people are really suffering as Luxor depends on tourism.

Cairo was a bit busier, but even the so called 5 star hotel I stayed in was far from full and most of the guests were Egyptian.

One of the best holidays I have ever had despite the hardship. Being with my girlfriend on the only boat on the Nile in Luxor as the sun sets over the Valley of the Kings takes some beating.

Holiday in a Muslim country... you're extremely brave, naïve or stupid... maybe all 3.

None of the above. Just because it is a Muslim country does not make it bad. Tourism plays such an important role in the economy that the vast majority of Egyptian people would not wish to do anything to harm it. The people I met were all very nice. I would go again without hesitation.

It also seems that Mr. Joe Public supports neither the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) nor the military regime. They want the army out of politics. Ring any bells?

Just as they do not wish to have religion enter the sphere of politics as espoused by the MB.

Keep your wits about you, don't venture to areas of trouble and you will be fine.

[Sam Jones]

So were does Egypt rate on the tourist scale ? So much bitching about Thailand.

You mean rate on the tourist scale of murder, roadkillings, police shakedowns, Immigration corruption or what exactly do you mean ... ?

I bet you can find lots of Egypt bitching (as you call it) on egyptvisa dot com ....

[doctormann]

The "South-Western" Desert is a long way away from the Sinai. It's literally as far from the Sinai as you can get and still be in Egypt. Not much to see over there either (unless they were at Aswan or Abu Simbel which, to me, would be the "Southern Desert").

If it was in the "South-Western" desert and they were out in the middle of nowhere they could possibly have been mistaken for Libyans. Still seems odd they would just open fire on them without being sure but then again, that area isn't exactly in the "middle of civilization" so perhaps they have a shoot first and make up a good story afterwards policy. Usually it's terrorists killing tourists.

Talk about having tourism problems - Thailand has it easy compared to what Egypt has been going through over the last few years. I was lucky I was there in '05, long before the "Arab Spring" (although I was on a Nile Cruise Boat at the same time the terrorists bombed the resort town of Sharm el Shiek on the Red Sea). I've wanted to go back again for a couple of years, but don't want to get caught up in a "to whom it may concern" incident. I'm sure their tourism sector could surely use a boost though.

I went in July for a week. Spent a few days in Luxor and it was dead. Had Karnak and Luxor Temples to myself so great for taking photos. No need to wait for the other tourists to get out of the way as there were next to none there. In the Valley of the Kings I saw one other group of about 5 or 6 people, which even for the low season means tourism is pretty much dead. Our guide said we were his first customers in 3 months and with hotels closed and occupancy down to less than 10 percent, we had no reason not to believe him. Little choice in the way of food as most restaurants were closed or closed down. The guide said it had been this way in Luxor since 2011. The people are really suffering as Luxor depends on tourism.

Cairo was a bit busier, but even the so called 5 star hotel I stayed in was far from full and most of the guests were Egyptian.

One of the best holidays I have ever had despite the hardship. Being with my girlfriend on the only boat on the Nile in Luxor as the sun sets over the Valley of the Kings takes some beating.

Holiday in a Muslim country... you're extremely brave, naïve or stupid... maybe all 3.

None of the above. Just because it is a Muslim country does not make it bad. Tourism plays such an important role in the economy that the vast majority of Egyptian people would not wish to do anything to harm it. The people I met were all very nice. I would go again without hesitation.

It also seems that Mr. Joe Public supports neither the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) nor the military regime. They want the army out of politics. Ring any bells?

Just as they do not wish to have religion enter the sphere of politics as espoused by the MB.

Keep your wits about you, don't venture to areas of trouble and you will be fine.

You reckon? Well maybe being alert is just not enough.

In November 1997 my wife and I were at the Temple of Hatshepsut, near Luxor, just a week before terrorists killed 67 people there, mainly tourists. No-one predicted this and the area was considered to be totally safe at that time. You can take all the precautions in the world but sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't suppose the tourists that recently got killed in Tunisia expected that either.

Obviously, you are not going to go on holiday to a war zone - unless you have a screw loose - but unless you give up on all travel there is always some risk involved, albeit normally slight. You are much more likely to be involved in some sort of accident than to be caught up in a terrorist incident so choose your destination sensibly and don't worry about it. Stay alert, certainly - but this advice applies no matter where you are.

DM

[craigt3365]

Spot on DM. We were in Bali just before the second blast. Ate at a restaurant only a few doors down. Bali is hardly a war zone.

I bought a non-refundable ticket to Egypt a week before the protests started. The airlines wouldn't let me get a refund. So, with great trepidation, I went. Stayed a few blocks from Tahrir Square, even went to see the protests. No big deal. Had a meal with some fantastic locals who helped me order from a menu with NO English. Even shared their food with me. Super.

Spent time in Jordan also, which is a fantastic country. Egypt? Never been hassled so much in all my life. Bargaining every day with the SAME person for a bottle of water gets old. But, no tourists. It was amazing.

[webfact]

OP was updated:

Egyptian forces mistakenly fire on desert safari, killing 12

updated story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/855738-at-least-12-killed-when-egyptian-forces-fire-on-group-of-mexican-tourists/#entry9851452

/Admin

[GarryP]

I went in July for a week. Spent a few days in Luxor and it was dead. Had Karnak and Luxor Temples to myself so great for taking photos. No need to wait for the other tourists to get out of the way as there were next to none there. In the Valley of the Kings I saw one other group of about 5 or 6 people, which even for the low season means tourism is pretty much dead. Our guide said we were his first customers in 3 months and with hotels closed and occupancy down to less than 10 percent, we had no reason not to believe him. Little choice in the way of food as most restaurants were closed or closed down. The guide said it had been this way in Luxor since 2011. The people are really suffering as Luxor depends on tourism.

Cairo was a bit busier, but even the so called 5 star hotel I stayed in was far from full and most of the guests were Egyptian.

One of the best holidays I have ever had despite the hardship. Being with my girlfriend on the only boat on the Nile in Luxor as the sun sets over the Valley of the Kings takes some beating.

Holiday in a Muslim country... you're extremely brave, naïve or stupid... maybe all 3.

None of the above. Just because it is a Muslim country does not make it bad. Tourism plays such an important role in the economy that the vast majority of Egyptian people would not wish to do anything to harm it. The people I met were all very nice. I would go again without hesitation.

It also seems that Mr. Joe Public supports neither the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) nor the military regime. They want the army out of politics. Ring any bells?

Just as they do not wish to have religion enter the sphere of politics as espoused by the MB.

Keep your wits about you, don't venture to areas of trouble and you will be fine.

You reckon? Well maybe being alert is just not enough.

In November 1997 my wife and I were at the Temple of Hatshepsut, near Luxor, just a week before terrorists killed 67 people there, mainly tourists. No-one predicted this and the area was considered to be totally safe at that time. You can take all the precautions in the world but sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't suppose the tourists that recently got killed in Tunisia expected that either.

Obviously, you are not going to go on holiday to a war zone - unless you have a screw loose - but unless you give up on all travel there is always some risk involved, albeit normally slight. You are much more likely to be involved in some sort of accident than to be caught up in a terrorist incident so choose your destination sensibly and don't worry about it. Stay alert, certainly - but this advice applies no matter where you are.

DM

I totally agree with you. There is risk no matter where you go. The wrong place at the wrong time type thing. Obviously, I would not go sight seeing in Syria at the moment, nor would I visit the Sinaii Peninsula. But I am not going to stay at home and vegetate either. Security at tourist areas has been considerably tightened. Having said that a couple of weeks before I arrived, a suicide bomber was blown up at Karnak Temple in the car park. He was shot by security forces and blew up. It is speculated that the security forces were the target not the tourists. Also, a couple of policemen were shot just outside the Great Pyramids in Giza in the same month I traveled. It did not put me off.

Agree with Craig about being hassled by the taxis, pony and trap guys and shopkeepers. But fantastic holiday all the same.