CBR 250 Clutch issue

[menzies233]

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas what the cause of this problem might be on the CBR 250R. Pull away in first, nice smooth clutch action, but sometimes changing from first to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd, after releasing the clutch, and applying throttle the bike is effectively in neutral for maybe one or two seconds, then suddenly the bike drops into gear.

It feels like the clutch disengages, but when letting out the lever the bike is not in gear, then in a short moment the gear engages. Weird as the cables are fine and the clutch is not slipping or anything like that, it is rock solid when it is engaged.

I have been letting my son use the bike now and again and he is a little bit rough, was wondering if the plates might be getting glazed? It generally only does it once on an entire ride, usually the first or second gear change up, does not matter if the bike is hot or cold, once it has done its little stunt it never does it again for the entire trip, but the next day, it will sometimes do it again.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.

[stubuzz]

Bent selector fork; Damaged syncro rings; heavy engine oil.

[menzies233]

Bent selector fork; Damaged syncro rings; heavy engine oil.

Bent Selector fork would do it repeatedly in every gear, which this does not, it is only the first or second gear change after pulling away.

Most bikes, mine included do not have synchromesh, they are dog engaged straight cut gears. (Wet clutch)

The oil is not "heavy" it is the blue bottle Honda approved oil and is changed every 2 thousand KM.

Cannot understand why it does it randomly in the first two gears, and only once in every ride, hot or cold, it defies logic. If it did it every shift then I could start to solve the problems but this is totally random.

[stubuzz]

I had a new Honda wave that would randomly stick in first or second. I would not change unless you stopped the bike and turned it off. The dealer had no idea and did not care about the problem. That was when i started buying Yamaha. I have never had a problem yet.

How many KM's on the CBR?

[stubuzz]

Take a look here. maybe clutch adjustment.

http://www.cbr250.net/forum/94692-post55.html

[menzies233]

I had a new Honda wave that would randomly stick in first or second. I would not change unless you stopped the bike and turned it off. The dealer had no idea and did not care about the problem. That was when i started buying Yamaha. I have never had a problem yet.

How many KM's on the CBR?

It has about 16K KM, never had an issue until about two weeks ago, I also have doubts about any remedy from local mechanics. (I went to our local Honda dealer / service centre - Niyom Panich, and they had absolutely no idea what Loctite Blue Threadlock was, despite it being used on every Honda, they offered me two part epoxy!!! - I just want to lock the bolts not weld them in place for eternity!

[ktm jeff]

Could the cable be kinking / wrongly routed or require some lube . This isnt a very good Honda engine . At this mileage , these engines have been known to self destruct . Take of the side case to expose the plastic oil strainer ( see some photos about page 33 on the CB 300 F thread ) and see if there is any evidence of metalic particals . If so could this be causing the clutch to stay "engaged" untill it has cleared out this swarfe .

Edited September 14, 2015 by ktm jeff

[alanrchase]

Could the cable be kinking / wrongly routed or require some lube . This isnt a very good Honda engine . At this mileage , these engines have been known to self destruct . Take of the side case to expose the plastic oil strainer ( see some photos about page 33 on the CB 300 F thread ) and see if there is any evidence of metalic particals . If so could this be causing the clutch to stay "engaged" untill it has cleared out this swarfe .

What are you basing the self destruct statement on? Curious as I have this engine.

[bobbin]

Could the cable be kinking / wrongly routed or require some lube . This isnt a very good Honda engine . At this mileage , these engines have been known to self destruct . Take of the side case to expose the plastic oil strainer ( see some photos about page 33 on the CB 300 F thread ) and see if there is any evidence of metalic particals . If so could this be causing the clutch to stay "engaged" untill it has cleared out this swarfe .

What are you basing the self destruct statement on? Curious as I have this engine.

ktm jeff is obsessed with self-destructing Honda engines. He tries to work it into any thread that even mentions Honda. He's a regular Chicken Little....

[menzies233]

I must admit I have never heard of the phenomena of self destructing Honda Engines! They are usually rock solid, they run forever even with the Thai ideas of maintenance.

Today I pulled the clutch cable back through the frame and routed it back in position, I also re did the clutch adjustment - ( There are a couple of anomalies between the Honda Owners manual and the service manual. The owners manual tells you to screw in the fine adjustment at the clutch lever "All the way in" and make the main adjustment at the clutch end of the cable - The Service manual tells you to adjust the fine adjuster all the way in then BACK IT OUT 1 Turn, then make the main adjustment at the clutch end.)

So that was completed and there actually may have been some constriction on the cable, when I pulled it through to re route it, I felt something spring as if it had been hooked on something near the base of the headlight.

Anyway, pumped the cable full of lube and reset everything and it is shifting sweeter than it ever did before.

Thanks for all the input, appreciated.

On a slightly different note, does anyone know how the speed is calculated on the CBR? Is it a sensor on the crank or is it on the wheel / ABS? I changed tyres to a different profile and it seems a bit out (it was out with the stock tyres anyway)

Cheers.

And FINALLY, I have had an offer to buy the CBR 500R ABS, not being a biker I really have no idea as to how much of a difference the 500 will be from the 250, is there a huge difference in power etc.? Is it going to flip a wheelie if I make a rough tug on the throttle?

I must admit that the 250 lacks a little bit on the highways and feels like it is getting a thrashing at 130KMH. I often find myself looking for a magical 7th or 8th gear at times. It would be nice to sit at 130K and rev at about 4K RPM, any info is greatly welcome.

Edited September 15, 2015 by menzies233

[ktm jeff]

To the confused , or the people who wish to know . I wondered if swarfe from the engine / gearbox was causing the clutch to jam , as explained . See CB 300 F thread - page 33 . EDIT , turns out , i was right with the cable .

Edited September 15, 2015 by ktm jeff

[menzies233]

To the confused , or the people who wish to know . I wondered if swarfe from the engine / gearbox was causing the clutch to jam , as explained . See CB 300 F thread - page 33 . EDIT , turns out , i was right with the cable .

Jeff, search and search again, there is no inherent problem with swarf on the CBR250R or the 300R, the engines do not self destruct, but I must admit the 300cc has more likelihood to blow than a 250, given they only increased the stroke putting more stress on the crank and probably more additional weight on the balance shaft.

Nice to find the problem, and glad it was a cable issue rather than an self destructing engine or a bent fork selector, or chipped dogs, or any of the other terrible problems you outlined.

I will probably stick with Honda, they take a bit of beating!

Any views as to pros or cons going forward with a 500CC compared to the 250? It would be welcomed!

Edited September 15, 2015 by menzies233

[andrewrooney]

To the confused , or the people who wish to know . I wondered if swarfe from the engine / gearbox was causing the clutch to jam , as explained . See CB 300 F thread - page 33 . EDIT , turns out , i was right with the cable .

Jeff, search and search again, there is no inherent problem with swarf on the CBR250R or the 300R, the engines do not self destruct, but I must admit the 300cc has more likelihood to blow than a 250, given they only increased the stroke putting more stress on the crank and probably more additional weight on the balance shaft.

Nice to find the problem, and glad it was a cable issue rather than an self destructing engine or a bent fork selector, or chipped dogs, or any of the other terrible problems you outlined.

I will probably stick with Honda, they take a bit of beating!

Any views as to pros or cons going forward with a 500CC compared to the 250? It would be welcomed!

Here's the thing about Jeff (as near as I can tell): he's ridden a lot, he's pretty knowledgeable about bikes, he knows how to wrench and he has good technical knowledge. However, for some reason, he has a burning hatred of all things Honda and can't post in a Honda thread without mentioning how they are all cheaply-made deathtraps which explode after a few thousand miles

One of these days I'm going to find out why, Jeff! Got burned on Honda stock options? Had a Honda as your first bike but it died on you and caused a freak accident? Personal grudge against the president of Honda himself? People want to know!

[ktm jeff]

menzies , sounded like a possible cable kink - didnt think , or mention , bent forks / chipped dogs , as you would have the problem "more often" , if that makes sense . If not cable , i would have removed the side case ( see the CB page i mentioned ) to check for any "early" signs of internal problems . This may be a wise precaution for owners anyway . I cant say the 300 engine is more problem prone than the 250 - i dont know . I would have a Kawasaki 650 over the CB 500 . I looked very closely at the 250 , in the CRF model , but the whole bike had too many cost cutting measures ,for my intended use , so i got a KLX . This is why i still keep half an eye on the 250 engine posts . Writing a book here ! . Andrew , thanks for the compliments . Yes , i am an engineer , and have worked on everything from cars bikes planes and tanks , but i promise i have no "hatred" for Honda ( or anyone / anything ) - scouts honour . Funny post though . Ive never had Honda stock options , but my shares in other companys did allow me to retire in 2011 , aged 46 . The last Honda i had was a XR 650 R - the liquid cooled version (America got an air cooled version ) . You sound like a Yank , using the word wrench . Im English and use the word spanner , EG a spanner spinner . Same , same . That Honda was great , loved it ( i have photos to prove ! ) , but heres the thing , you may or may-not agree with ( i dont want to fall out with anyone ) , it was made to the standard we know Honda were , and still are , capable of . They were world famous for great machines . Now heres the BUT . What has happened over the last , say 5 years ? . The quality has fallen - a lot . Why ? . Made to a price , maybe . Same for everyone to an extent . So Honda needs to decide if its competing with the value "Chinese" brands , or wants to get back into the premium market it once dominated . I think the utter failure of the F1 program may be case in point .

[menzies233]

menzies , sounded like a possible cable kink - didnt think , or mention , bent forks / chipped dogs , as you would have the problem "more often" , if that makes sense . If not cable , i would have removed the side case ( see the CB page i mentioned ) to check for any "early" signs of internal problems . This may be a wise precaution for owners anyway . I cant say the 300 engine is more problem prone than the 250 - i dont know . I would have a Kawasaki 650 over the CB 500 . I looked very closely at the 250 , in the CRF model , but the whole bike had too many cost cutting measures ,for my intended use , so i got a KLX . This is why i still keep half an eye on the 250 engine posts . Writing a book here ! . Andrew , thanks for the compliments . Yes , i am an engineer , and have worked on everything from cars bikes planes and tanks , but i promise i have no "hatred" for Honda ( or anyone / anything ) - scouts honour . Funny post though . Ive never had Honda stock options , but my shares in other companys did allow me to retire in 2011 , aged 46 . The last Honda i had was a XR 650 R - the liquid cooled version (America got an air cooled version ) . You sound like a Yank , using the word wrench . Im English and use the word spanner , EG a spanner spinner . Same , same . That Honda was great , loved it ( i have photos to prove ! ) , but heres the thing , you may or may-not agree with ( i dont want to fall out with anyone ) , it was made to the standard we know Honda were , and still are , capable of . They were world famous for great machines . Now heres the BUT . What has happened over the last , say 5 years ? . The quality has fallen - a lot . Why ? . Made to a price , maybe . Same for everyone to an extent . So Honda needs to decide if its competing with the value "Chinese" brands , or wants to get back into the premium market it once dominated . I think the utter failure of the F1 program may be case in point .

<deleted>? are you literate? what a spout of absolute <deleted>

[menzies233]

To the confused , or the people who wish to know . I wondered if swarfe from the engine / gearbox was causing the clutch to jam , as explained . See CB 300 F thread - page 33 . EDIT , turns out , i was right with the cable .

Jeff, search and search again, there is no inherent problem with swarf on the CBR250R or the 300R, the engines do not self destruct, but I must admit the 300cc has more likelihood to blow than a 250, given they only increased the stroke putting more stress on the crank and probably more additional weight on the balance shaft.

Nice to find the problem, and glad it was a cable issue rather than an self destructing engine or a bent fork selector, or chipped dogs, or any of the other terrible problems you outlined.

I will probably stick with Honda, they take a bit of beating!

Any views as to pros or cons going forward with a 500CC compared to the 250? It would be welcomed!

Here's the thing about Jeff (as near as I can tell): he's ridden a lot, he's pretty knowledgeable about bikes, he knows how to wrench and he has good technical knowledge. However, for some reason, he has a burning hatred of all things Honda and can't post in a Honda thread without mentioning how they are all cheaply-made deathtraps which explode after a few thousand miles

One of these days I'm going to find out why, Jeff! Got burned on Honda stock options? Had a Honda as your first bike but it died on you and caused a freak accident? Personal grudge against the president of Honda himself? People want to know!

He seems to live on planet KTM that revolves around Jeff, another fuc?ing Nutjob!

[ktm jeff]

menzies , you seem confused . You ask for help with more "Honda" problems , and this is your way of saying thank you ? . Next time you have Honda problems and you require assistance from people - how do you think that will go ? .

[menzies233]

menzies , you seem confused . You ask for help with more "Honda" problems , and this is your way of saying thank you ? . Next time you have Honda problems and you require assistance from people - how do you think that will go ? .

Apologies, Got a bit frustrated with some of your responses. One message was just a load of garbled quotes that made no sense. Also, I Googled all I could and there is simply no evidence that Honda Engines self destruct whatsoever. I do not know where you are getting your information from but it is misleading and inaccurate.

Thanks for your input, I spoke unfairly and harshly. I appreciate comments that are useful and informative, but I am not too supportive of comments that have an agenda with the purpose of hyping their preferences.

I can understand that the CBR/CB300 would be more likely to have more wear than the 250 as it is basically the same engine with just a longer stroke hence putting more strain on the crank and bearings, but I am unable to find one single post that backs up your claims that the Honda engine is prone to self destructing at 16000 KM.

Cheers all the same.

[ktm jeff]

menzies , thank you . Your posts seemed a bit "off-key" for you . I dont have an anti Honda agenda , or anti anything really. Maybe i didnt explain correctly . What part , or parts , of my posts didnt you understand / didnt i explain it clearly . This isnt me being sarcastic . I dont intend to offend or mislead anyone . I do prefer KTM,s , but no matter how good ( i think ) they are , theres not too many who will pay 600,000 Baht , for an off road bike . There have been many posts of recent Honda problems . I follow the CRF 250 threads , as i like the bike , so i read about the "250" engine problems too . The CB 300 F thread - page 33 - here on TV bikes , shows a problem that i feared may be yours , causing the clutch to jam , possibly through oil starvation caused by partly restricted oil ways . As i suggested , it may be wise to inspect your engines oil strainer anyway , just to be on the safe side . As i have posted before , some of these engines have done 40K , but some have failed . I guess we are all passionate about bikes . Thats good . Once again , thanks for posting back .

[menzies233]

menzies , thank you . Your posts seemed a bit "off-key" for you . I dont have an anti Honda agenda , or anti anything really. Maybe i didnt explain correctly . What part , or parts , of my posts didnt you understand / didnt i explain it clearly . This isnt me being sarcastic . I dont intend to offend or mislead anyone . I do prefer KTM,s , but no matter how good ( i think ) they are , theres not too many who will pay 600,000 Baht , for an off road bike . There have been many posts of recent Honda problems . I follow the CRF 250 threads , as i like the bike , so i read about the "250" engine problems too . The CB 300 F thread - page 33 - here on TV bikes , shows a problem that i feared may be yours , causing the clutch to jam , possibly through oil starvation caused by partly restricted oil ways . As i suggested , it may be wise to inspect your engines oil strainer anyway , just to be on the safe side . As i have posted before , some of these engines have done 40K , but some have failed . I guess we are all passionate about bikes . Thats good . Once again , thanks for posting back .

Thanks for understanding.

I just got the impression that you were trying to make an agenda against Honda, You could accuse me of having a pro Honda agenda -

But one of your posts really just confused me and seemed to be misleading -

"menzies , sounded like a possible cable kink - didnt think , or mention , bent forks / chipped dogs , as you would have the problem "more often" , if that makes sense . If not cable , i would have removed the side case ( see the CB page i mentioned ) to check for any "early" signs of internal problems . This may be a wise precaution for owners anyway . I cant say the 300 engine is more problem prone than the 250 - i dont know . I would have a Kawasaki 650 over the CB 500 . I looked very closely at the 250 , in the CRF model , but the whole bike had too many cost cutting measures ,for my intended use , so i got a KLX . This is why i still keep half an eye on the 250 engine posts . Writing a book here ! . Andrew , thanks for the compliments . Yes , i am an engineer , and have worked on everything from cars bikes planes and tanks , but i promise i have no "hatred" for Honda ( or anyone / anything ) - scouts honour . Funny post though . Ive never had Honda stock options , but my shares in other companys did allow me to retire in 2011 , aged 46 . The last Honda i had was a XR 650 R - the liquid cooled version (America got an air cooled version ) . You sound like a Yank , using the word wrench . Im English and use the word spanner , EG a spanner spinner . Same , same . That Honda was great , loved it ( i have photos to prove ! ) , but heres the thing , you may or may-not agree with ( i dont want to fall out with anyone ) , it was made to the standard we know Honda were , and still are , capable of . They were world famous for great machines . Now heres the BUT . What has happened over the last , say 5 years ? . The quality has fallen - a lot . Why ? . Made to a price , maybe . Same for everyone to an extent . So Honda needs to decide if its competing with the value "Chinese" brands , or wants to get back into the premium market it once dominated . I think the utter failure of the F1 program may be case in point . "

Anyway, I do appreciate your input, and I am sorry for offending you, I probably had a bad day with the clutch and a few too many beers. Hope you don't take it too personally, nothing was meant by it, but to be honest, when I read my own reply it was out of order, I get like that at times. Sorry! OK. I will think before I stick my stupid foot in my mouth. I appreciate the help, truly.

As far as bikes go I am passionate too - I bought a can of 1 pint of Seafoam (Airfreighted here believe it or not from the USA....this cannot be legal) I have used it on my bike a couple of times in the fuel but last night I chucked about 2 ounces into the oil / crankcase, - (I change the oil every 2K) but within 50KM the oil looks like crude oil jet black! So tomorrow it is new oil and a new K& N Filter -

Edited September 18, 2015 by menzies233

[ktm jeff]

Im English , so i have never used , or even seen "Seafoam" . Heard about it though . I believe its some additive containing cleansing agents , and can be used for both fuel ( petrol / diesel ) and oil systems . I often use fuel system cleaner ( STP , Wyns , Red-x ) and then a different clenser ( engine flush ) for the oil system . Fond of Shell oils and fuels , but thats another topic , and a subject of much debate .

[menzies233]

Im English , so i have never used , or even seen "Seafoam" . Heard about it though . I believe its some additive containing cleansing agents , and can be used for both fuel ( petrol / diesel ) and oil systems . I often use fuel system cleaner ( STP , Wyns , Red-x ) and then a different clenser ( engine flush ) for the oil system . Fond of Shell oils and fuels , but thats another topic , and a subject of much debate .

I am English Too, you are correct, it is similar as far as I can understand to things like Red -X, but according to US spiel, even better.

I used it in my petrol (I run Benzine rather than Bio crap) and it made a difference on my bike a bit smoother, and it made my kids MSX sound nicer. The thing I am looking at at the minute is the way it has turned my oil from a golden honey colour to jet black in less than 100 KM!

It must be cleaning some junk from the engine.

I used to swear by Redex! long time ago, more than 30 years when my old man would fill up at Esso and ask for two shots of Redex!