'Defrauded by my wife and criminals in Thailand' - BBC special report

[homeseeker]

I congratulate the victim(s) for going public about the fraud committing against him and his family. Likely the massive publicity here and elsewhere will act as a warning to others and prevent the same fate befalling them.

Would of thought the last thing the victim wants is to be told he may of made mistakes....

Rather, and due to the wide coverage of this case there surely must be some people in Thailand or otherwise who hear about it and are legitimately well connected and are able to actively do something to assist in righting this wrong.....

.......if you are out there, have a bit of humanity and pull some strings to help.....

[Linzz]

no sympathy, I've listened to so many of these fools over the years like SHES DIFFRENT. keep it simple, why get married in Thailand ?. I would not trust anyone where my money is concerned. you know what they say about a fool and his money ?

Sympathy is a virtue

Call no man a fool, you may be found wanting

Everybody is different

Thailand is as good as any country on earth to get marred in

Trust but verify

Fools and their money are easily parted and skinflints have no friends

[catman20]

no sympathy, I've listened to so many of these fools over the years like SHES DIFFRENT. keep it simple, why get married in Thailand ?. I would not trust anyone where my money is concerned. you know what they say about a fool and his money ?

Sympathy is a virtue

Call no man a fool, you may be found wanting

Everybody is different

Thailand is as good as any country on earth to get marred in

Trust but verify

Fools and their money are easily parted and skinflints have no friends

are you speaking from experience ? sounds like your married with kids

[villagefarang]

In spite of all this publicity, individuals like Ian will continue think they are smarter than the other guy at circumventing the law and government regulations. Instead of following the law, they will continue to setup dummy corporations, directorships and proxies in an effort to manipulate the system in their perceived favor. They will likely never admit to doing anything wrong and will cry foul when other crooked individual outsmart them and take advantage of their vulnerabilities.

One can’t help but wonder why a wealthy man’s wife felt so impoverished that she needed to go outside the marriage to get money from loansharks. Trying to be tricky and controlling can sometimes lead to unexpected consequences.

[mary wang]

I feel this BBC report is prejudiced in favor of the husband. It seems this guy is controlling the whole finance of the family,if the wife need money so bad why didnt he meet her need? What is the whole truth behind the story?

[Gecko123]

In spite of all this publicity, individuals like Ian will continue think they are smarter than the other guy at circumventing the law and government regulations. Instead of following the law, they will continue to setup dummy corporations, directorships and proxies in an effort to manipulate the system in their perceived favor. They will likely never admit to doing anything wrong and will cry foul when other crooked individual outsmart them and take advantage of their vulnerabilities.

One can’t help but wonder why a wealthy man’s wife felt so impoverished that she needed to go outside the marriage to get money from loansharks. Trying to be tricky and controlling can sometimes lead to unexpected consequences.

I generally enjoy and respect your thoughtful posts, villagefarang, but in this case I think you are being overly judgemental and behind the times.

In the past, Thai law pretty much reflected your thinking. It reasoned that because foreigners could not legally own land in Thailand, in the event that their illegally obtained land rights were violated, the law could provide no remedy to protect an illegal interest in property. In the 1990's, however, Thailand's Supreme Court changed its thinking on this matter. Under current Thai land law if a person is found to have obtained an illegal interest in land, the Department of Land can step in and force the foreigner to sell the illegally owned land. The court thus reasoned that because an administrative mechanism for forcing the sale of illegally owned land existed, land ownership rights, even those obtained in violation of Thai land law, could still be protected under civil law. People, of course, have the right not to sympathize with Ian, but at least recognize and acknowledge - as the Thai Supreme Court has done - that two wrongs don't make a right, and land law shouldn't be used as a justification for ripping people off.

It should also be pointed out that instances of foreigners illegally obtaining interests in land are likely far more prevelant than many realize. For example, under Thai land law, if a foreign national marries a Thai national, any funds used to purchase land should come exclusively from the Thai national. The main reason for this is that in the event of divorce, the law does not want a foreign national to be able to assert an ownership interest in the land. The law further stipulates that when a Thai national and a foreign born national seek to purchase land, the couple should sign an affidavit which states none of the money used to purchase the land came from the foreign national. If a Thai/foreign national couple purchases land with assets which belong to the foreign national, this is in clear violation of Thai land law. Furthermore, anyone stating that the money to purchase the land did not come from the foreign national when in reality it did, is guilty of making false statements to a public official, which is punishable by fines and incarceration. My point is that the prevelance of foreigners circumventing or violating land law goes far beyond people just setting up dummy corporations, may extend right to one's own front door, and it may be wise to conduct a compliance review of one's own situation before passing judgement on others.

I also don't think that speculation about how this man's wife may or may not have 'felt' is appropriate. The motives for the wife's accumulation of debt are unknown and could have been incurred out of sheer avarice, gambling debts, or even been incurred prior to the marriage, hidden from the spouse for 8 years, all the while accumulating interest at loanshark rates. I'm just saying that not everyone who has been taken advantage of in Thailand is naive, a control freak, or a bloomin' idiot, and knowing you've been here for many years, I'm genuinely surprised you are as reluctant as you seem to be to acknowledge this.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Gecko123

[huawei]

Sometimes it doesn't matter how much you give, they or someone associated with them wants more.

[thaibeachlovers]

In spite of all this publicity, individuals like Ian will continue think they are smarter than the other guy at circumventing the law and government regulations. Instead of following the law, they will continue to setup dummy corporations, directorships and proxies in an effort to manipulate the system in their perceived favor. They will likely never admit to doing anything wrong and will cry foul when other crooked individual outsmart them and take advantage of their vulnerabilities.

One can’t help but wonder why a wealthy man’s wife felt so impoverished that she needed to go outside the marriage to get money from loansharks. Trying to be tricky and controlling can sometimes lead to unexpected consequences.

I generally enjoy and respect your thoughtful posts, villagefarang, but in this case I think you are being overly judgemental and behind the times.

In the past, Thai law pretty much reflected your thinking. It reasoned that because foreigners could not legally own land in Thailand, in the event that their illegally obtained land rights were violated, the law could provide no remedy to protect an illegal interest in property. In the 1990's, however, Thailand's Supreme Court changed its thinking on this matter. Under current Thai land law if a person is found to have obtained an illegal interest in land, the Department of Land can step in and force the foreigner to sell the illegally owned land. The court thus reasoned that because an administrative mechanism for forcing the sale of illegally owned land existed, land ownership rights, even those obtained in violation of Thai land law, could still be protected under civil law. People, of course, have the right not to sympathize with Ian, but at least recognize and acknowledge - as the Thai Supreme Court has done - that two wrongs don't make a right, and land law shouldn't be used as a justification for ripping people off.

It should also be pointed out that instances of foreigners illegally obtaining interests in land are likely far more prevelant than many realize. For example, under Thai land law, if a foreign national marries a Thai national, any funds used to purchase land should come exclusively from the Thai national. The main reason for this is that in the event of divorce, the law does not want a foreign national to be able to assert an ownership interest in the land. The law further stipulates that when a Thai national and a foreign born national seek to purchase land, the couple should sign an affidavit which states none of the money used to purchase the land came from the foreign national. If a Thai/foreign national couple purchases land with assets which belong to the foreign national, this is in clear violation of Thai land law. Furthermore, anyone stating that the money to purchase the land did not come from the foreign national when in reality it did, is guilty of making false statements to a public official, which is punishable by fines and incarceration. My point is that the prevelance of foreigners circumventing or violating land law goes far beyond people just setting up dummy corporations, may extend right to one's own front door, and it may be wise to conduct a compliance review of one's own situation before passing judgement on others.

I also don't think that speculation about how this man's wife may or may not have 'felt' is appropriate. The motives for the wife's accumulation of debt are unknown and could have been incurred out of sheer avarice, gambling debts, or even been incurred prior to the marriage, hidden from the spouse for 8 years, all the while accumulating interest at loanshark rates. I'm just saying that not everyone who has been taken advantage of in Thailand is naive, a control freak, or a bloomin' idiot, and knowing you've been here for many years, I'm genuinely surprised you are as reluctant as you seem to be to acknowledge this.

Your post is long and I am somewhat confused by it, but I believe that you are in agreement with those of us that say "thinking of buying land in Thailand- JUST DON'T".

[Briggsy]

Pages and pages of posts focusing on the wife and how fat the bloke is.

Hardly any posts regarding the key point here that this fraud involved Land Office officials and Police committing crime with impunity protected by their state positions.

The wife was with him for 9 years before the fraud. She probably has a P4 education. She was nothing but an easily controlled and intimidated pawn to this gang. Where is she now? In prison, like a good pawn should be.

Who has the money? Not the wife.

Everybody missing the point as usual.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[slipperx]

just watched the video and it would seem to me the best advice would be to stay single. I have properties here in company names not a problem for me in the last 16 years as I do not have any Thai girlfriends sign on any company paper work don't mix business with pleasure.

THEN THE FOOL GOES AND RE MARRIES AND GOES DOWN THE SAME ROAD AGIAN HAVING MORE KIDS.

HE WILL NEVER LEARN.

YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CANT MAKE IT DRINK!!!!!!!!!!!

There you go again calling someone a fool when you do not know him, his situation or his new wife. He's the one who got burnt, don't you think he knows better than you with guards up, whether to trust his new wife or not? She obviously is not of the same ilk or he wouldn't have, whereas you judge people by race.

Whether he tried to circumvent the law or not is not really my business. I do know he was a success in Thailand and abroad and he speaks with intelligence and clarity about the political and legal situation in Thailand, so he is not a fool like you seem to delight in saying.

However you, like so many others seem to suffer from tall poppy syndrome and enjoy kicking a man when he's down because it makes you feel better about yourself. This is apparent in your screaming in capital letters your judgmental contempt for the man and your delight in his situation is plainly obvious.

You must not be aware that he is reading and contributing to this thread, or if you are aware of that, then you show little common human decency.

It's not just kicking a man when he's down. It's also warning others that think circumventing the law is OK in Thailand that it's not. The Thais may not abide by the rules, but when it goes wrong, it goes really wrong. If others that were thinking of buying property or going into business in LOS think again because of this, it is worth it to post on here.

Here is the brainwashed - circumventing Thai law nonsense again. What does it mean? Does it mean if you take a lease which is within the law and that lease is cancelled by fraud but the court doesn't like foreigners so you have 'circumvented' something? Does it mean if you make a business but some Thai wants to steal it the the court will decide you have circumvented Thai law because it suits them?

Or does it mean that the laws themselves will be interpreted in every way against a foreigner and it his wife but not the foreign wife of a Thai husband because the judge has s racial prejudice against wives of foreigners?

The law is the law but it is open to interpretation in the extreme. Phuket court decided my lease means nothing and the assets of companies I am involved with can be stolen at will. I think that interpretation is wrong as it is not what the law says.

However I agree no one should invest anything in Thailand until the law provides security and judges can be held to account deciding on the evidence presented which no one defendant has managed to challenge leaving the judges to make up their own evidence to ensure I cannot win. That is not justice or application of any legal principle and neither is it a circumvention of the law but using the law as it is written. The fact that no lawyer here really knows the law makes the whole system a farce as even those who have experience and are not corrupt are at the whim of the judge since precedent is very weak here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slipperx]

Pages and pages of posts focusing on the wife and how fat the bloke is.

Hardly any posts regarding the key point here that this fraud involved Land Office officials and Police committing crime with impunity protected by their state positions.

The wife was with him for 9 years before the fraud. She probably has a P4 education. She was nothing but an easily controlled and intimidated pawn to this gang. Where is she now? In prison, like a good pawn should be.

Who has the money? Not the wife.

Everybody missing the point as usual.

And there you have it. I apologize to all TV members for being fat and wearing red trainers on the beach with the kids for an hour. Perhaps people will accept that and move on to the points at issue which is the fraud, organized crime and complicity of the legal system in perpetuating it. There are so many inconsistencies it belies belief!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nomyai]

Stop playing victim. You knew going in the inconsistentcies in legal recourse should things go wrong. Well they went wrong and you are living what you already knew.

[warriorbangkok]

CSI LA

Edited September 23, 2015 by warriorbangkok

[Gecko123]

I generally enjoy and respect your thoughtful posts, villagefarang, but in this case I think you are being overly judgemental and behind the times.

In the past, Thai law pretty much reflected your thinking. It reasoned that because foreigners could not legally own land in Thailand, in the event that their illegally obtained land rights were violated, the law could provide no remedy to protect an illegal interest in property. In the 1990's, however, Thailand's Supreme Court changed its thinking on this matter. Under current Thai land law if a person is found to have obtained an illegal interest in land, the Department of Land can step in and force the foreigner to sell the illegally owned land. The court thus reasoned that because an administrative mechanism for forcing the sale of illegally owned land existed, land ownership rights, even those obtained in violation of Thai land law, could still be protected under civil law. People, of course, have the right not to sympathize with Ian, but at least recognize and acknowledge - as the Thai Supreme Court has done - that two wrongs don't make a right, and land law shouldn't be used as a justification for ripping people off.

It should also be pointed out that instances of foreigners illegally obtaining interests in land are likely far more prevelant than many realize. For example, under Thai land law, if a foreign national marries a Thai national, any funds used to purchase land should come exclusively from the Thai national. The main reason for this is that in the event of divorce, the law does not want a foreign national to be able to assert an ownership interest in the land. The law further stipulates that when a Thai national and a foreign born national seek to purchase land, the couple should sign an affidavit which states none of the money used to purchase the land came from the foreign national. If a Thai/foreign national couple purchases land with assets which belong to the foreign national, this is in clear violation of Thai land law. Furthermore, anyone stating that the money to purchase the land did not come from the foreign national when in reality it did, is guilty of making false statements to a public official, which is punishable by fines and incarceration. My point is that the prevelance of foreigners circumventing or violating land law goes far beyond people just setting up dummy corporations, may extend right to one's own front door, and it may be wise to conduct a compliance review of one's own situation before passing judgement on others.

I also don't think that speculation about how this man's wife may or may not have 'felt' is appropriate. The motives for the wife's accumulation of debt are unknown and could have been incurred out of sheer avarice, gambling debts, or even been incurred prior to the marriage, hidden from the spouse for 8 years, all the while accumulating interest at loanshark rates. I'm just saying that not everyone who has been taken advantage of in Thailand is naive, a control freak, or a bloomin' idiot, and knowing you've been here for many years, I'm genuinely surprised you are as reluctant as you seem to be to acknowledge this.

Your post is long and I am somewhat confused by it, but I believe that you are in agreement with those of us that say "thinking of buying land in Thailand- JUST DON'T".

Here's the Cliff Notes version of what I wrote:

Thailand's Supreme Court has interpreted the law to allow foreigners to protect illegally obtained property rights. Those saying that 'anyone who violates Thailand's land laws deserves what they get,' are out of step with Thailand's Supreme Court.

Violation of land law is probably more prevalent than many realize and extends beyond people setting up dummy corporations. Before passing judgement on the OP, you may want to check first if you are fully compliant with the law.

Speculating about the health of the OP's prior marriage is unfair because all of the facts are not known. Blaming the victim by speculating that he may have driven his wife to commit fraud is also unfair.

I would not advocate violating Thailand's land laws. It is rife with peril, and in many cases registering land in another entity's or person's name creates a moral hazard. If you choose to take that risk, you need to fully understand the risks and potential consequences involved.

I admire the OP's efforts to seek justice and recover his assets. By alerting others to these dangers, as well as hopefully discouraging others from perpetrating similar criminal acts, the OP is helping the expat community and deserves to be supported by us.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Gecko123

[thaibeachlovers]

just watched the video and it would seem to me the best advice would be to stay single. I have properties here in company names not a problem for me in the last 16 years as I do not have any Thai girlfriends sign on any company paper work don't mix business with pleasure.

THEN THE FOOL GOES AND RE MARRIES AND GOES DOWN THE SAME ROAD AGIAN HAVING MORE KIDS.

HE WILL NEVER LEARN.

YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CANT MAKE IT DRINK!!!!!!!!!!!

There you go again calling someone a fool when you do not know him, his situation or his new wife. He's the one who got burnt, don't you think he knows better than you with guards up, whether to trust his new wife or not? She obviously is not of the same ilk or he wouldn't have, whereas you judge people by race.

Whether he tried to circumvent the law or not is not really my business. I do know he was a success in Thailand and abroad and he speaks with intelligence and clarity about the political and legal situation in Thailand, so he is not a fool like you seem to delight in saying.

However you, like so many others seem to suffer from tall poppy syndrome and enjoy kicking a man when he's down because it makes you feel better about yourself. This is apparent in your screaming in capital letters your judgmental contempt for the man and your delight in his situation is plainly obvious.

You must not be aware that he is reading and contributing to this thread, or if you are aware of that, then you show little common human decency.

It's not just kicking a man when he's down. It's also warning others that think circumventing the law is OK in Thailand that it's not. The Thais may not abide by the rules, but when it goes wrong, it goes really wrong. If others that were thinking of buying property or going into business in LOS think again because of this, it is worth it to post on here.

Here is the brainwashed - circumventing Thai law nonsense again. What does it mean? Does it mean if you take a lease which is within the law and that lease is cancelled by fraud but the court doesn't like foreigners so you have 'circumvented' something? Does it mean if you make a business but some Thai wants to steal it the the court will decide you have circumvented Thai law because it suits them?

Or does it mean that the laws themselves will be interpreted in every way against a foreigner and it his wife but not the foreign wife of a Thai husband because the judge has s racial prejudice against wives of foreigners?

The law is the law but it is open to interpretation in the extreme. Phuket court decided my lease means nothing and the assets of companies I am involved with can be stolen at will. I think that interpretation is wrong as it is not what the law says.

However I agree no one should invest anything in Thailand until the law provides security and judges can be held to account deciding on the evidence presented which no one defendant has managed to challenge leaving the judges to make up their own evidence to ensure I cannot win. That is not justice or application of any legal principle and neither is it a circumvention of the law but using the law as it is written. The fact that no lawyer here really knows the law makes the whole system a farce as even those who have experience and are not corrupt are at the whim of the judge since precedent is very weak here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmmmm. If I was wrong and you did not try to BUY land using dodgy legal procedures, I apologise. However, at 28 pages it is easy to get confused and start thinking that this is just another "farang tries to con the system and gets caught" thread. After all, it's a common tale.

However, when it comes to a farang winning against the system, I think farangs are on a hiding to nothing. I knew 20 years ago that farangs shouldn't try to start businesses or aquire property ( one way or another ) in LOS and nothing since has changed my mind.

It's no use saying that "the LAW' allows whatever, when anyone that has visited LOS for more than a couple of weeks knows how much that means. If the LAW was applied, the cigarette police on Sukhumvit wouldn't be fitting people up, the jet ski scammers and the gem scammers would be in jail, and they wouldn't be able to open an all night karaoke next to the house you just bought.

Anyone thinking that it would be nice to open a business in Thailand should remember the old adage that's been around in LOS for a very long time, "the way to make a small fortune in Thailand is to start with a large one". True then and true now.

Seriously, if you have money, rent something and enjoy yourself on a nice long holiday, but as for investing, forgedaboudit.

Every farang that "invests" money in Thailand is just another reason nothing will change.

[thaibeachlovers]

I generally enjoy and respect your thoughtful posts, villagefarang, but in this case I think you are being overly judgemental and behind the times.

In the past, Thai law pretty much reflected your thinking. It reasoned that because foreigners could not legally own land in Thailand, in the event that their illegally obtained land rights were violated, the law could provide no remedy to protect an illegal interest in property. In the 1990's, however, Thailand's Supreme Court changed its thinking on this matter. Under current Thai land law if a person is found to have obtained an illegal interest in land, the Department of Land can step in and force the foreigner to sell the illegally owned land. The court thus reasoned that because an administrative mechanism for forcing the sale of illegally owned land existed, land ownership rights, even those obtained in violation of Thai land law, could still be protected under civil law. People, of course, have the right not to sympathize with Ian, but at least recognize and acknowledge - as the Thai Supreme Court has done - that two wrongs don't make a right, and land law shouldn't be used as a justification for ripping people off.

It should also be pointed out that instances of foreigners illegally obtaining interests in land are likely far more prevelant than many realize. For example, under Thai land law, if a foreign national marries a Thai national, any funds used to purchase land should come exclusively from the Thai national. The main reason for this is that in the event of divorce, the law does not want a foreign national to be able to assert an ownership interest in the land. The law further stipulates that when a Thai national and a foreign born national seek to purchase land, the couple should sign an affidavit which states none of the money used to purchase the land came from the foreign national. If a Thai/foreign national couple purchases land with assets which belong to the foreign national, this is in clear violation of Thai land law. Furthermore, anyone stating that the money to purchase the land did not come from the foreign national when in reality it did, is guilty of making false statements to a public official, which is punishable by fines and incarceration. My point is that the prevelance of foreigners circumventing or violating land law goes far beyond people just setting up dummy corporations, may extend right to one's own front door, and it may be wise to conduct a compliance review of one's own situation before passing judgement on others.

I also don't think that speculation about how this man's wife may or may not have 'felt' is appropriate. The motives for the wife's accumulation of debt are unknown and could have been incurred out of sheer avarice, gambling debts, or even been incurred prior to the marriage, hidden from the spouse for 8 years, all the while accumulating interest at loanshark rates. I'm just saying that not everyone who has been taken advantage of in Thailand is naive, a control freak, or a bloomin' idiot, and knowing you've been here for many years, I'm genuinely surprised you are as reluctant as you seem to be to acknowledge this.

Your post is long and I am somewhat confused by it, but I believe that you are in agreement with those of us that say "thinking of buying land in Thailand- JUST DON'T".

Here's the Cliff Notes version of what I wrote:

Thailand's Supreme Court has interpreted the law to allow foreigners to protect illegally obtained property rights. Those saying that 'anyone who violates Thailand's land laws deserves what they get,' are out of step with Thailand's Supreme Court.

Violation of land law is probably more prevalent than many realize and extends beyond people setting up dummy corporations. Before passing judgement on the OP, you may want to check first if you are fully compliant with the law.

Speculating about the health of the OP's prior marriage is unfair because all of the facts are not known. Blaming the victim by speculating that he may have driven his wife to commit fraud is also unfair.

I would not advocate violating Thailand's land laws. It is rife with peril, and in many cases registering land in another entity's or person's name creates a moral hazard. If you choose to take that risk, you need to fully understand the risks and potential consequences involved.

I admire the OP's efforts to seek justice and recover his assets. By alerting others to these dangers, as well as hopefully discouraging others from perpetrating similar criminal acts, the OP is helping the expat community and deserves to be supported by us.

IMO only an investment strike by all farangs and overseas companies will change anything. Otherwise they are doing very nicely and why would they change?

However, I do not agree that farangs should be able to buy land. In my country it is virtually impossible for young people to buy a house, due to the government not looking after it's own citizens and kowtowing to rich overseas 'investors" that buy up everything at inflated prices. In my perfect world, my country would look to Thailand to base it's land ownership laws on. IMO Thailand is doing the right thing.

[MaeJoMTB]

The law further stipulates that when a Thai national and a foreign born national seek to purchase land, the couple should sign an affidavit which states none of the money used to purchase the land came from the foreign national.

This is a land office regulation, and carries no weight or authority, at all, in Thai law.

[MaeJoMTB]

And there you have it. I apologize to all TV members for being fat and wearing red trainers on the beach with the kids for an hour.

Hey,nothing wrong with being fat, lots of us are.

It's the being fat (and old, and a foreigner) then marrying a 20 year old that you believe loves you and can be trusted, that gives us the problem.

Gold-diggers can't be trusted, and shouldn't know anything about your business or finances, if you don't want to be fleeced.

[villagefarang]

In response to gecko123:

Even though you are critical of my take on this situation, you have penned a very well reasoned argument. I am willing to defer to your superior knowledge of Thai law but having heard only one side of the story I think we are all left with little option but to speculate.

I tend to lean toward the peril and moral hazard part of your argument and I cannot bring myself to absolve him of all blame. I am clearly less sympathetic than you are but I can live with that.

Edited September 23, 2015 by villagefarang

[slipperx]

And there you have it. I apologize to all TV members for being fat and wearing red trainers on the beach with the kids for an hour.

Hey,nothing wrong with being fat, lots of us are.

It's the being fat (and old, and a foreigner) then marrying a 20 year old that you believe loves you and can be trusted, that gives us the problem.

Gold-diggers can't be trusted, and shouldn't know anything about your business or finances, if you don't want to be fleeced.

I don't think I have ever said much about my feelings or otherwise. This idea has come from multiple posts assuming this and assuming that based on the posters own predilection.

Anyway I was not 60 and she twenty but it matters not because most have their own ideas and it is a waste of time to try to change that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dustdevil]

Had the same thing happen to me. Two children.married 15 years. Trumped up some charges. Got me arrested and put in prison for nothing. Couldn't bail out because lawyers kept stealing the bail money. While she and her family stole and sold everything I owned. That's highly illegal in any country. But no arrests yet....

Oh my gosh. And I thought MY ex-wife was bad. (She's Malaysian Chinese, but always very honest about money. We even continued a joint bank account for a few years after separation and divorce, and she never took one penny that wasn't hers.

[warriorbangkok]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Ian Rance's Thai assets/business interests/property were not legitimately 'his' in the first place.

Am I wrong?

As for people slating Thai women on here: you're stereotyping and it's completely inaccurate.

There are lots of happily married farang/Thai couples in this country. Once again, if you're a single man and want a Thai girlfriend, then make sure she satisfies the following criteria:

1. She has a university education

2. She has her own income

3. She's around about the same age as you

4. She speaks English at an advanced/near fluency level

If your Thai girlfriend matches the above four criteria, then you'll find that she'll be the best companion that you could ever wish for.

Also, men, please be understanding towards Thai culture. Thailand has never been colonized, and most Thai people think in a way that is different to anglocized/Western culture. Be patient, be understanding and embrace Thai culture.

You are a guest in this country. Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality and learn to respect Thai culture.

Edited September 23, 2015 by warriorbangkok

[thaibeachlovers]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Ian Rance's Thai assets/business interests/property were not legitimately 'his' in the first place.

Am I wrong?

As for people slating Thai women on here: you're stereotyping and it's completely inaccurate.

There are lots of happily married farang/Thai couples in this country. Once again, if you're a single man and want a Thai girlfriend, then make sure she satisfies the following criteria:

1. She has a university education

2. She has her own income

3. She's around about the same age as you

4. She speaks English at an advanced/near fluency level

If your Thai girlfriend matches the above four criteria, then you'll find that she'll be the best companion that you could ever wish for.

Also, men, please be understanding towards Thai culture. Thailand has never been colonized, and most Thai people think in a way that is different to anglocized/Western culture. Be patient, be understanding and embrace Thai culture.

You are a guest in this country. Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality and learn to respect Thai culture.

What is this obsession with a university education? In a country where I believe you have to have a uni degree to work in a 7 11 they are no indicator of anything except that you were there for a few years. NZ had a very wealthy man that refused to employ uni graduates because he said they were useless in real life.

While they are certainly necessary for Drs and architects etc, a lot of degrees are rubbish- hip hop anyone?

Is 2 out of 4 OK?

Embrace Thai culture.

So I should accept corruption, accept shoddy workmanship and lazy shop staff, believe in Hindu gods, give the family lots of money for no good reason except I married one of them, drive very badly and treat those less fortunate poorly because they must have been wicked in a previous life.

Erm, I don't think so.

You are a guest in this country.

Since when did guests have to pay to stay somewhere?

Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality

Well you did say something I can agree with.

[villagefarang]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Ian Rance's Thai assets/business interests/property were not legitimately 'his' in the first place.

Am I wrong?

As for people slating Thai women on here: you're stereotyping and it's completely inaccurate.

There are lots of happily married farang/Thai couples in this country. Once again, if you're a single man and want a Thai girlfriend, then make sure she satisfies the following criteria:

1. She has a university education

2. She has her own income

3. She's around about the same age as you

4. She speaks English at an advanced/near fluency level

If your Thai girlfriend matches the above four criteria, then you'll find that she'll be the best companion that you could ever wish for.

Also, men, please be understanding towards Thai culture. Thailand has never been colonized, and most Thai people think in a way that is different to anglocized/Western culture. Be patient, be understanding and embrace Thai culture.

You are a guest in this country. Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality and learn to respect Thai culture.

It looks like I am headed to the poorhouse for sure. My wife didn’t have a university education when we married but she is in her final semester here at Chiang Rai University if that counts.

I have enough money for both of us so I value her company more than any amount of money she could obtain from employment.

I would have nothing in common with a sixty year old woman but I have a lot in common with my forty year old wife. When she is sixty and I am eighty I may make an exception to my comment about sixty year old women.

She didn’t speak English when we met but I did speak Thai if that counts. Her university major is English so now we both speak each others language with proficiency.

In my opinion, making checklists is a waste of time because each person and couple is different. On paper my wife and I shouldn’t have worked but 18 years on we have done things our way and have a really wonderful loving relationship. That is another thing, no one ever talks about love. Women are always referred to as a commodity, like a used car, a piece of meat or a depository for men’s sexual release.

[mary wang]

Why a young wife would forsake everything she build in this marriage for the money? There must be something fishy going on behind this so called fraud. The title of "Defrauded by his Thai wife" is not accurate and unfounded.

[Linzz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Ian Rance's Thai assets/business interests/property were not legitimately 'his' in the first place.

Am I wrong?

As for people slating Thai women on here: you're stereotyping and it's completely inaccurate.

There are lots of happily married farang/Thai couples in this country. Once again, if you're a single man and want a Thai girlfriend, then make sure she satisfies the following criteria:

1. She has a university education

2. She has her own income

3. She's around about the same age as you

4. She speaks English at an advanced/near fluency level

If your Thai girlfriend matches the above four criteria, then you'll find that she'll be the best companion that you could ever wish for.

Also, men, please be understanding towards Thai culture. Thailand has never been colonized, and most Thai people think in a way that is different to anglocized/Western culture. Be patient, be understanding and embrace Thai culture.

You are a guest in this country. Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality and learn to respect Thai culture.

It looks like I am headed to the poorhouse for sure. My wife didn’t have a university education when we married but she is in her final semester here at Chiang Rai University if that counts.

I have enough money for both of us so I value her company more than any amount of money she could obtain from employment.

I would have nothing in common with a sixty year old woman but I have a lot in common with my forty year old wife. When she is sixty and I am eighty I may make an exception to my comment about sixty year old women.

She didn’t speak English when we met but I did speak Thai if that counts. Her university major is English so now we both speak each others language with proficiency.

In my opinion, making checklists is a waste of time because each person and couple is different. On paper my wife and I shouldn’t have worked but 18 years on we have done things our way and have a really wonderful loving relationship. That is another thing, no one ever talks about love. Women are always referred to as a commodity, like a used car, a piece of meat or a depository for men’s sexual release.

That is because misogyny and racism are alive and well on this forum

[sawadee1947]

you can lose your heart but don't lose your money

[thaibeachlovers]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Ian Rance's Thai assets/business interests/property were not legitimately 'his' in the first place.

Am I wrong?

As for people slating Thai women on here: you're stereotyping and it's completely inaccurate.

There are lots of happily married farang/Thai couples in this country. Once again, if you're a single man and want a Thai girlfriend, then make sure she satisfies the following criteria:

1. She has a university education

2. She has her own income

3. She's around about the same age as you

4. She speaks English at an advanced/near fluency level

If your Thai girlfriend matches the above four criteria, then you'll find that she'll be the best companion that you could ever wish for.

Also, men, please be understanding towards Thai culture. Thailand has never been colonized, and most Thai people think in a way that is different to anglocized/Western culture. Be patient, be understanding and embrace Thai culture.

You are a guest in this country. Stop trying to change everything. Embrace the reality and learn to respect Thai culture.

It looks like I am headed to the poorhouse for sure. My wife didn’t have a university education when we married but she is in her final semester here at Chiang Rai University if that counts.

I have enough money for both of us so I value her company more than any amount of money she could obtain from employment.

I would have nothing in common with a sixty year old woman but I have a lot in common with my forty year old wife. When she is sixty and I am eighty I may make an exception to my comment about sixty year old women.

She didn’t speak English when we met but I did speak Thai if that counts. Her university major is English so now we both speak each others language with proficiency.

In my opinion, making checklists is a waste of time because each person and couple is different. On paper my wife and I shouldn’t have worked but 18 years on we have done things our way and have a really wonderful loving relationship. That is another thing, no one ever talks about love. Women are always referred to as a commodity, like a used car, a piece of meat or a depository for men’s sexual release.

As Prince Charles famously said, "whatever love is". I don't think many people "love" each other, in the true sense of the word. I think most confuse "love" with lust, and lust never lasts. If they are lucky, they meet someone they like, and stay together as friends with benefits.

When women rent out their vaginas to any bloke with a few thousand baht they should expect to be treated like a commodity.

I don't know about you ( perhaps you like to visit temples ), but when I came to Thailand twice a year on holiday, it wasn't to play with the orphans and help old ladies across the street, and I wasn't intending to go home as a married man either.

I did eventually get married and I don't visit bars any more, except with her, or if she's not there, she certainly knows I am and that I'm not renting anyone's vagina.

That's something I like about my wife, I can look at another woman or go to Pattaya alone without her threatening to divorce me, like my western ex would have.

Edited September 23, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[Robert24]

I generally enjoy and respect your thoughtful posts, villagefarang, but in this case I think you are being overly judgemental and behind the times.

In the past, Thai law pretty much reflected your thinking. It reasoned that because foreigners could not legally own land in Thailand, in the event that their illegally obtained land rights were violated, the law could provide no remedy to protect an illegal interest in property. In the 1990's, however, Thailand's Supreme Court changed its thinking on this matter. Under current Thai land law if a person is found to have obtained an illegal interest in land, the Department of Land can step in and force the foreigner to sell the illegally owned land. The court thus reasoned that because an administrative mechanism for forcing the sale of illegally owned land existed, land ownership rights, even those obtained in violation of Thai land law, could still be protected under civil law. People, of course, have the right not to sympathize with Ian, but at least recognize and acknowledge - as the Thai Supreme Court has done - that two wrongs don't make a right, and land law shouldn't be used as a justification for ripping people off.

It should also be pointed out that instances of foreigners illegally obtaining interests in land are likely far more prevelant than many realize. For example, under Thai land law, if a foreign national marries a Thai national, any funds used to purchase land should come exclusively from the Thai national. The main reason for this is that in the event of divorce, the law does not want a foreign national to be able to assert an ownership interest in the land. The law further stipulates that when a Thai national and a foreign born national seek to purchase land, the couple should sign an affidavit which states none of the money used to purchase the land came from the foreign national. If a Thai/foreign national couple purchases land with assets which belong to the foreign national, this is in clear violation of Thai land law. Furthermore, anyone stating that the money to purchase the land did not come from the foreign national when in reality it did, is guilty of making false statements to a public official, which is punishable by fines and incarceration. My point is that the prevelance of foreigners circumventing or violating land law goes far beyond people just setting up dummy corporations, may extend right to one's own front door, and it may be wise to conduct a compliance review of one's own situation before passing judgement on others.

I also don't think that speculation about how this man's wife may or may not have 'felt' is appropriate. The motives for the wife's accumulation of debt are unknown and could have been incurred out of sheer avarice, gambling debts, or even been incurred prior to the marriage, hidden from the spouse for 8 years, all the while accumulating interest at loanshark rates. I'm just saying that not everyone who has been taken advantage of in Thailand is naive, a control freak, or a bloomin' idiot, and knowing you've been here for many years, I'm genuinely surprised you are as reluctant as you seem to be to acknowledge this.

Your post is long and I am somewhat confused by it, but I believe that you are in agreement with those of us that say "thinking of buying land in Thailand- JUST DON'T".

Here's the Cliff Notes version of what I wrote:

Thailand's Supreme Court has interpreted the law to allow foreigners to protect illegally obtained property rights. Those saying that 'anyone who violates Thailand's land laws deserves what they get,' are out of step with Thailand's Supreme Court.

Violation of land law is probably more prevalent than many realize and extends beyond people setting up dummy corporations. Before passing judgement on the OP, you may want to check first if you are fully compliant with the law.

Speculating about the health of the OP's prior marriage is unfair because all of the facts are not known. Blaming the victim by speculating that he may have driven his wife to commit fraud is also unfair.

I would not advocate violating Thailand's land laws. It is rife with peril, and in many cases registering land in another entity's or person's name creates a moral hazard. If you choose to take that risk, you need to fully understand the risks and potential consequences involved.

I admire the OP's efforts to seek justice and recover his assets. By alerting others to these dangers, as well as hopefully discouraging others from perpetrating similar criminal acts, the OP is helping the expat community and deserves to be supported by us.

IMO only an investment strike by all farangs and overseas companies will change anything. Otherwise they are doing very nicely and why would they change?

However, I do not agree that farangs should be able to buy land. In my country it is virtually impossible for young people to buy a house, due to the government not looking after it's own citizens and kowtowing to rich overseas 'investors" that buy up everything at inflated prices. In my perfect world, my country would look to Thailand to base it's land ownership laws on. IMO Thailand is doing the right thing.

well rule of law is usually a key deciding factor for companies and it's a reason why many HQ are in Singapore or Hong Kong for Asia. It's also a reason why some companies prefer Hong Kong then mainland China for their China business. So if Thailand wants to increase FDI then they will have to improve the rule of law.