Forensic team to testify in Koh Tao murder trial

[Madaussie]

So in the Thai news they say there's no evidence of a sexual assault. The corner has said why if she was raped as the RTP claimed is there no evidence of it. Which is why she has released the report.

Ask your partners if Thai to listen to this http://www.now26.tv/view/55814

[Madaussie]

Well they cant bury this evidence as its going to come out in the Inquest in Norwich later on in the year.

[stephenterry]

So in the Thai news they say there's no evidence of a sexual assault. The corner has said why if she was raped as the RTP claimed is there no evidence of it. Which is why she has released the report.

Ask your partners if Thai to listen to this http://www.now26.tv/view/55814

This is going viral...by this time tomorrow, the investigating RTP and their trial witnesses will have been destroyed. Well, I can dream...

[fireplay]

So if there is no evidence of a sexual assault...does this mean no wounds...tears bruising...or perhaps parrington can break it down.

I am very curious as to what would be absent...i can imagine but not entirely clear. Now...if those physical wounds prevalent in a sexual assault are absent...how can RTP supporters get around that? They healed post mortem? It was consensual? Just wondering what kind of wiggle room is left for Mr. AleG and Goldbuggy to interpret this as. Perhaps just one opinion of a coroner which isn't as sound as the RTP coroner report?

I can't see the RTP supporters throwing in the towel just yet.

Edited September 24, 2015 by fireplay

[Monkeyrobot]

i hope these 2 boys future is not determined by a time factor off the defense not being granted more time to prove there innocence .

[StealthEnergiser]

So in the Thai news they say there's no evidence of a sexual assault. The corner has said why if she was raped as the RTP claimed is there no evidence of it. Which is why she has released the report.

Ask your partners if Thai to listen to this http://www.now26.tv/view/55814

I wish we could get subtitles on that but it clearly says they found no signs of rape.

[Aj Mick]

The prosecution case is filled with holes and to date they have not proved that the B2 are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It doesn't even matter what the DNA proves or does not. It has to be excluded because there is no chain of custody. Without the chain of custody, no one can believe anything regarding DNA. The confessions are useless, possibly extracted by coercion; incompetent translators; and general unprofessional actions regarding the confession process. There was no logical motive that was presented by the prosecution. In addition there are questions as to the actual investigation itself. I don't know who may actually committed this horrible crime- but I do know that no one has provided a complete picture of the deceased's actions prior to entering the AC bar; what happened in the AC bar and what happened after they left. Did the defense conduct their own investigation; interviewing all witnesses and developing their own theory of what actually happened? The missing information centers on compiling a timeline for the deceased and the B2.and seeing where it leads. Without this information-the picture is incomplete.

The work of the defense is not to find who "really" did it, it's to get their clients free.

To that end the strategy the defense is using is called FUD, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, to create enough of the three elements to discredit the work of the RTP and the prosecution case. The problem is that doubts and uncertainties are not the way one arrives to the truth, quite the contrary in fact.

The work of the police is not to find who really did it. It behoves them to get their clients free.

To that end the strategy of the police have been using is called FUD, Fear, Unscrupulousness and Deception to create enough of the three elements to bring discredit upon themselves, and produce a case that the prosecutors would have preferred not take. The problem is that doubts and uncertainties it creates are not the way one arrives at the truth, quite the contrary in fact.

C'mon AleG. You know this case is based on corruption and lies to protect the guilty. You may even know the guilty….. But for reasons best known to yourself you have decided to join them in perpetuating a cynically dishonest story spun by the powers that be and the otherwise powerful.

C'mon AleG, they care no more about you than they do about the innocents they would happily see put to death to protect their reputation and that of their own kith and kin.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Aj Mick

[fireplay]

So in the Thai news they say there's no evidence of a sexual assault. The corner has said why if she was raped as the RTP claimed is there no evidence of it. Which is why she has released the report.

Ask your partners if Thai to listen to this http://www.now26.tv/view/55814

I wish we could get subtitles on that but it clearly says they found no signs of rape.

My girlfriend said it talks about police hitting the suspects(torture) and there are no wounds indicating rape.

[BritTim]

So if there is no evidence of a sexual assault...does this mean no wounds...tears bruising...or perhaps parrington can break it down.

I am very curious as to what would be absent...i can imagine but not entirely clear. Now...if those physical wounds prevalent in a sexual assault are absent...how can RTP supporters get around that? They healed post mortem? It was consensual? Just wondering what kind of wiggle room is left for Mr. AleG and Goldbuggy to interpret this as. Perhaps just one opinion of a coroner which isn't as sound as the RTP coroner report?

I can't see the RTP supporters throwing in the towel just yet.

I can predict their response right now: determination of whether a sexual assault occurred is subjective. However, there was semen (we promise) that clearly show the Burmese kids (strangers to Hannah) had sex with her that cannot possibly have been consensual. All BS, but (if not interested in the truth) what else can they say?

[Madaussie]

Amazing Thailand, no wonder they wanted to keep everyone away they had to coach them through the re-enactment

“We heard the translator ask one suspect: “What did you do with the hoe (the alleged murder weapon) afterwards?” The suspect says: “I don’t know”. The translator then says: “You put it under the tree didn’t you.” The suspect was clearly being led,” said the human rights activist.

Whoops sorry didn't put the link in: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/human_rights_thailand_accuse_police_of_breaching_legal_rights_in_murder_trial_of_hannah_witheridge_1_4245303?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Edited September 24, 2015 by Madaussie

[Trisha61]

Fantastic work... comparing a walk on flip flops with a barefoot run.

I take it your now also an expert on Gait technology and base your comment on a handful of stills without seeing the movie or hearing the testimony from the "real" expert

Actually I am, indeed, an expert on the subject.

Really? I am intrigued, please enlighten us all with your expert credentials if you wouldn't mind sharing, supported of course with proof of your claims. (No wiffle waffle piffle if you please Sir)

[thailandchilli]

So in the Thai news they say there's no evidence of a sexual assault. The corner has said why if she was raped as the RTP claimed is there no evidence of it. Which is why she has released the report.

Ask your partners if Thai to listen to this http://www.now26.tv/view/55814

I wish we could get subtitles on that but it clearly says they found no signs of rape.

Its also says that the bite marks stated by the Thai pathologist to be on Hannah's breast do not exist.

[Madaussie]

_{BREAKING NEWS FROM HANNAH'S FAMILY}

The statement reads: “Our family have returned to Koh Samui for the closing days of trial. As a family we are here to represent our beautiful girl.

“Our world changed forever on 15th September 2014. Words cannot begin to explain the journey we have endured, a journey that has no end.

“We hope that the reporting of the case offers both Hannah and David their dignity and we ask that we are afforded our privacy to digest the case and the evidence being presented.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/words_cannot_begin_to_explain_the_journey_we_have_endured_hannah_witheridge_s_family_release_statement_1_4245626

[StealthEnergiser]

But Mr Hall told the court that the examination by the Norfolk coroner discovered .......... (REMOVED) contradicting the contents of the Thai pathologists report conducted immediately after her death.

The prosecution has alleged that her injuries are consistent ......... (REMOVED)

So whats the deal? Gunshot???

The deal is to imply a lot by saying a little.

My guess is that the very initial pathologist reports did not clearly state rape had been committed but subsequently it did, so it appears Mr. Hall is doing a bit of cherrypicking here.

I have little doubt you are in communication with the prosecution, so what you are saying is probably true. It reminds me of the back and forth statements on semen samples. Originally, the RTP did not want to admit that any semen samples existed. Later, having determined that sexual assault was the only possible motive for the murders, they stated that they did have semen samples. Shortly thereafter, they even claimed they knew who this semen belonged to. There is real doubt as to whether there is any documentation to back the claims up, and (sadly) the semen samples no longer exist (they are used up). If semen samples ever really existed (which is not 100%) then the only logical reason they would no longer be available is that they were disposed of. What possible motive could there be for doing so?

I agree with the first part BritTim "I have little doubt you are in communication with the prosecution"

[Oziex1]

I note that recently in Thai courts a few high profile cases have seen what may be described as real justice, Morrison from Phuket Wan got off the defamation case, Andy Hall had the defamation charge brought by Natural Fruit dismissed.

This case appears to be progressing well and seems likely the B2 will escape the noose. whether the guilty will face the courts is another question all together.

All these cases have something in common there is international interest and they involve foreigners using Thai lawyers they trust.

[StealthEnergiser]

It's time now for the media to call a meeting with the PM.

[Aj Mick]

what face ? there is no face left, the general populous are so ashamed of this debacle they are not even covering it in national/local news, 60 odd million people in this nation are holding their head in shame hoping it will just go away

I'd say most of those 60 million don't give a rat's. They just want to get on with their lives.

I'd say most of those 60 million don't give a rat's because they don't know. Despite the Thai press showing plenty of interest in the murder and the the investigation, and even the opening of the trial, it has been strangely silent on the proceedings since……

Why so?

Gore and crime are staples in the popular Thai language papers. If it involves foreigners, all the better. I'd have thought they would have been rather keen to cover this story.

From what I've seen the past few days the Thai press are giving it more coverage.

True, the scandal is becoming irresistible.

But if it had not been for social media and foreign press coverage, the case could have been quietly dealt with and closed, just another unreported miscarriage of justice. Thankfully the defence team have seen to it that the case has at last gained some prominence, despite the efforts of some to suppress it.

[thailandchilli]

A regrouping of certain posters will be on the agenda now planning their next strategy, criticizing of A.H. back fired so perhaps now it'll be a go at the UK coroner

Edited September 24, 2015 by thailandchilli

[smedly]

The RTP have claim from the arrest of B2 or earlier that a rape took place and dna sperm samples from the victim matched the accused, they have been unable to produce that evidence

It now turns out that a report from a UK pathologist says there is no evidence on the victims body that supports the alledged rape claim by RTP, that means no evidence inside or outside her body.

That means the whole RTP and prosecution case is based on lies and deception, I can conclude nothing less

The crime scene was staged (which I always believed) and the case against B2 is a fabrication which with safety I now believe also, I have also never said in the past that I thought B2 were innocent, I always stated that I simply hadn't seen anything credible it the prosecution case that pointed to guilt - I am now firmly convinced that B2 are innocent - 100% certain

[BritTim]

A regrouping of certain posters will be on the agenda now planning their next strategy, criticizing of A.H. back fired so perhaps now it'll be a go at the UK coroner

Yes, perhaps they will find the coroner and pathologist are against the death penalty and falsified the postmortem (and its supporting photos that they seem to have found the funds to produce) to support their personal agendas.

[evadgib]

We have used Gait to describe a person, since the 1980's

We used an A-H profile when doing intelligence gathering and collating information about suspected terrorists in Northern Ireland. The G stood for Gait.

So it's not a new method of part of an identification procedure it's been around for over 30 years within the British Military.

A = Age

B= Build

C= complexion

D= distinguishing marks

E= elevation

F= can't recall

G= Gait

I have used this method for many years and still do to this day, it works.

F: Face/Forehead

E: Eyes/Ears

H: Height/Hair

Edited September 24, 2015 by evadgib

[smedly]

It's time now for the media to call a meeting with the PM.

I believe it is time for the PM to call a meeting with RTP to find out exactly why he was lied too and decieved and start knocking a few heads

[stephenterry]

So if there is no evidence of a sexual assault...does this mean no wounds...tears bruising...or perhaps parrington can break it down.

I am very curious as to what would be absent...i can imagine but not entirely clear. Now...if those physical wounds prevalent in a sexual assault are absent...how can RTP supporters get around that? They healed post mortem? It was consensual? Just wondering what kind of wiggle room is left for Mr. AleG and Goldbuggy to interpret this as. Perhaps just one opinion of a coroner which isn't as sound as the RTP coroner report?

I can't see the RTP supporters throwing in the towel just yet.

I can predict their response right now: determination of whether a sexual assault occurred is subjective. However, there was semen (we promise) that clearly show the Burmese kids (strangers to Hannah) had sex with her that cannot possibly have been consensual. All BS, but (if not interested in the truth) what else can they say?

Okay, we'll just kill the man with our bare hands and then we'll threaten the female not to move while we both have sex and then we'll _ hang on we can't use the hoe..

[StealthEnergiser]

A regrouping of certain posters will be on the agenda now planning their next strategy, criticizing of A.H. back fired so perhaps now it'll be a go at the UK corener

Many people on here have said from the start that a small group of RTP supporters had an agenda to try and stop truths about theses tragic murders from coming out and posters have been attacked at every point along the way.

Now we have to ask the question did this group hold back crucial information ? Are they involved ?

Maybe they just wanted more evidence before accepting the b2 were innocent. ?

I would think these are not unreasonable questions and investigators may later seek clarification .

I have know knowledge that this will happen just my own thoughts.

[webfact]

Koh Tao murders – defense team ask for more time on the penultimate day of the trial

KOH TAO: -- The lawyers defending Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo in the Koh Tao murder case have appealed for more time today (Thursday) on what is meant to be the penultimate day of the trial. Chief lawyer Nakhon Chompupat sited one of the reasons as there being problems convincing witnesses to testify for fear of retribution.



Yesterday human rights activist and defense team advisor Andy Hall took to the stand to provide evidence of his own investigation alongside the Migrant Workers Rights Network (MWRN), into torture allegations from the Myanmar migrants during the Koh Tao murder investigations. He went on to explain what he describes as “significant contradictions between the UK and Thai autopsies on the body of deceased Koh Tao murder victim Hannah Witheridge.” On his twitter account he said “I based autopsy testimony on a comparison of the two autopsy reports and my direct communication with the

renowned autopsy doctor in UK” in another tweet he said “Then presented to court an expert forensic report and accompanying video stating that based on gait analysis the running man was not Wai Phyo”. “I pointed out Thai police cited no scientific evidence suggesting running man was Wai Phyo and based their conclusion on ‘similar looks’”. During his testimony he “presented to the court a video of the Roti Man telling channel 3 news the accused admitted to killing the deceased with a wine bottle.”



Hall, who with the MWRN has raised a significant amount of money to fund the costs of the defense team, who are working pro-bono, went on to tweet “Main basis prosecution cross examination seem to me an attempt to convince the court that I was seeking personally to benefit from the case.” And later tweeted “MWRN raised around 2m baht which dwarfs into insignificance by millions of baht Thai government has spent on a shambolic prosecution case”. Hall along with the MWRN have supported the accused since their arrest last October providing humanitarian visits to the prison, food and drinking water as well as conducting an extensive investigation both into the case and the allegations of torture the accused say was the reason the initially confessed to the crimes.



With one day left to go in the high profile trial that has caught media attention around the world, so far only one of the defendants, Zaw Lin, has taken the stand, he is due to continue his testimony before the conclusion of the trail. Wei Phyo has yet to speak during the trial. Both of the accused have appeared remarkably calm during the proceedings and have told support groups that their spirits remain high and they wish nothing more for justice for the families of the victims of this violent crime. Both insist they had nothing to do with the crimes that A Hall tweet 6took place on Siree Beach last September, have no criminal history and they insist no motive to have ever been involved.

-- Samui Times 2015-09-24

[balo]

So if there is no evidence of a sexual assault...does this mean no wounds...tears bruising...or perhaps parrington can break it down.

I am very curious as to what would be absent...i can imagine but not entirely clear. Now...if those physical wounds prevalent in a sexual assault are absent...how can RTP supporters get around that? They healed post mortem? It was consensual? Just wondering what kind of wiggle room is left for Mr. AleG and Goldbuggy to interpret this as. Perhaps just one opinion of a coroner which isn't as sound as the RTP coroner report?

I can't see the RTP supporters throwing in the towel just yet.

I am also surprised about the latest news , no sexual assaults.

So what was it then ? A revenge for something ? Just some guys, maybe high on drugs who decided to kill someone without any reason ?

Or maybe the evidence was not clear enough so they decided to pull the plug....

[aslimversgwm]

So on another Thai media website it goes into more details on some of the points in the UK autopsy report that has not been reported in the English press, probably because of the graphic nature and out of respect for the victims families as AH mentioned, but I can summarize without going into details that Hannah displayed no traces of rape. I'll get my Thai wife to translate it a bit better when she gets back tonight.

Well that is the bombshell. No rape no semen, no suspects DNA. A cold-bloodied murder, instead, most likely carried out by a gang of enraged Thai thugs who attacked Hannah and David - with the victims trying to defend themselves with a hoe.

Explains why the DNA documentation has not been provided by the RTP. It's fictional.

Exactly so. Surely the judges must throw the whole case out the window now!

The RTP's 'evidence' is absolutely non-existent.

[BritTim]

This study says a minority of women who are raped have genital injuries

Results A minority of women had genital injuries (22/83); the majority had some form of physical injury (68/83), although most of these were minor..

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-0528.1997.tb11543.x/full

I am sure you already know this, but these statistics are extremely misleading. It depends entirely on the characteristics of the rape. A woman will much more strongly resist a rape by multiple assailants who are strangers than she will the unwelcome advances of a friend. Also, in the latter case, the rape will usually be much less violent. I think AleG and GB might well use them though.

[fireplay]

So if there is no evidence of a sexual assault...does this mean no wounds...tears bruising...or perhaps parrington can break it down.

I am very curious as to what would be absent...i can imagine but not entirely clear. Now...if those physical wounds prevalent in a sexual assault are absent...how can RTP supporters get around that? They healed post mortem? It was consensual? Just wondering what kind of wiggle room is left for Mr. AleG and Goldbuggy to interpret this as. Perhaps just one opinion of a coroner which isn't as sound as the RTP coroner report?

I can't see the RTP supporters throwing in the towel just yet.

I am also surprised about the latest news , no sexual assaults.

So what was it then ? A revenge for something ? Just some guys, maybe high on drugs who decided to kill someone without any reason ?

Or maybe the evidence was not clear enough so they decided to pull the plug....

The thing is Balo if you agree no sexual assault took place this casts not only the RTP as incompetant...but absolute proof of a CONSPIRACY straight up lies about semen that didn't exist.

[fireplay]

This study says a minority of women who are raped have genital injuriesResults A minority of women had genital injuries (22/83); the majority had some form of physical injury (68/83), although most of these were minor..

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-0528.1997.tb11543.x/full

I am sure you already know this, but these statistics are extremely misleading. It depends entirely on the characteristics of the rape. A woman will much more strongly resist a rape by multiple assailants who are strangers than she will the unwelcome advances of a friend. Also, in the latter case, the rape will usually be much less violent. I think AleG and GB might well use them though.

Out of likes sir i am just trying to pre empt the usual suspects response to the shocking news.