ATM debit card fraud - skimming - Thailand

[bazza40]

I only use a debit card at an ATM here for emergency funds. Always use an ATM at a bank. My financial institution in Australia takes about a month to reverse fraudulent transactions, which have been two over the last 20 years.

It's very simple. If you have a bank passbook and your passport, you go into a bank branch and withdraw cash. I haven't heard of a scammer yet that can look like your passport photo, and simultaneously forge your signature in front of a bank official.

[Berto]

Hi ryanhull,

thanks for your reply.

My card and account is from Bank of China - Shanghai.

Unfortunately the bank denies any liability or reimbursement.

So my only chance to eventually get my money back is through (successful) police investigation.

sebulba

I am sorry to hear that, the only way I can think of helping police investigations is give them as much details as possible about where and when you might have been skimmed. People who placed the devices came back to retrieve them, cameras should have them recorded.

[ggt]

While visiting Chiang Mai..had my ATM card skimmed at a non-banking ATM located near Trapae Gate...cash withdrawals from the Ukraine were easy to refute since I have never set foot in the Ukraine...

May be much harder to prove you have been scammed with the money having been withdrawn in Thailand...

Good Luck!

[The Deerhunter]

UK Banks protect you - this has happened before. NatWest in the UK refunded my money after I signed an Affidavit.

I have two Thai Bank Accounts - one with a small amount of money in it which I use at ATM's. I also try to be covert as possible when entering my pin, I also am quite selective of the ATM's I use and check for foreign appearing objects.

Also, wipe all the number keys over several times with your fingers AFTER inputting the number, while waiting for the money to come out. They apparently sometimes treat the keys somehow to see which 4 you touched. They have about 50 to 75% percent chance of getting it right in 3 goes if they know which 4 keys to use. We live in a small town in the country and our ATM is in front of the bank, but I make a habit even there of maximum vigilance for skimming. Odd bods standing around, shielding my pins, looking at hardware for pin holes, cameras, fake fronts etc. Once would be too often.

[balo]

I have not had this problem YET !!

I always use an ATM located inside a bank.

Do Thai banks cover if it does happen? Bangkok bank??

I never got my money after withdrawing from a foreign Visa card used in an ATM from Kasikorn some time ago , After complaining to the bank it took 6 months and the money was returned to me . I had to communicate with them for some time but at least they covered it.

[Jeffkp]

I was in Bangkok last week. Saturday morning, I received an email alert to call the fraud folks at my US bank. They asked me if I had made a ATM withdraw for $300.00, in Poland in the last two hours. Obviously not.They cancelled my Debit card and are sending a new one via FedEX. They also returned the missing money.

This is the second time this has happened in the last two months (the other fraudulent withdraws was made in CM),

[chingching]

UK Banks protect you - this has happened before. NatWest in the UK refunded my money after I signed an Affidavit.

I have two Thai Bank Accounts - one with a small amount of money in it which I use at ATM's. I also try to be covert as possible when entering my pin, I also am quite selective of the ATM's I use and check for foreign appearing objects.

Also, wipe all the number keys over several times with your fingers AFTER inputting the number, while waiting for the money to come out. They apparently sometimes treat the keys somehow to see which 4 you touched. They have about 50 to 75% percent chance of getting it right in 3 goes if they know which 4 keys to use. We live in a small town in the country and our ATM is in front of the bank, but I make a habit even there of maximum vigilance for skimming. Odd bods standing around, shielding my pins, looking at hardware for pin holes, cameras, fake fronts etc. Once would be too often.

4 numbers = 4x3x2x1 combinations, =24 at 3 tries= 1 out of 8 or 12.5%

[dotpoom]

To answer your question ...."My question is if anybody was affected by recent ATM / debit card fraud within Thailand or has heard about it.".

Hardly a day goes by that I have not read here on TV stories of gangs being arrested for these crimes....more reports than I'v had hot dinners so I think it is safe to say that it is going on regularly all over Thailand.

[jamie2009]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

Edited September 28, 2015 by jamie2009

[Mot Dang]

My MasterCard was skimmed in a Korean Restaurant in BKK last year whilst paying my bill. I know that for a fact because that was the only place I used this card. It was my bank's security division that first picked up the bogus withdrawals from the account two months later, coming out of the USA of all places. They got away with about $5,000 worth of purchases, all in small amounts. Fortunately I got it all back from my bank.

Now I try not to let my card out of my sight, but also I got another new card with a max of only $2,000 on it. I use it for restaurants, and sometimes internet purchases (if I'm not using EBay.).

Additionally in Thailand I only use, for Key card withdrawals, ATM's associated with banks or Foreign Exchange offices. If I cant find one of those I give the ATM a good going over. The are some decent guides on the internet for this.

[Mot Dang]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

I have not seen a BKK Bank with a chip as yet. And I recently renewed a damaged card.

[roamer]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

Let's clarify this. UK cards have both a magnetic strip and a chip. In the UK all atm's and POS devices in stores have to read the chip for UK issued cards.If you are abroad however where the machine does not have a chip reader then they revert to using the strip. So although a card cab be skimmed in the UK by reading the strip it can't be used in the UK with that data, that has cut UK bank losses. Yes that captured data could be replicated and used abroad, however nearly all banks and credit card companies request that you tell them if you are going abroad and using the card. If you don't and you attempt to use the card in a non chip atm then it will normally be blocked.Countries like Thailand are logical targets because if you capture the data from a foreign issued card the probability is that the issuing bank expects the card to be used there because the customer will have informed them that was their destination.When the card is used elsewhere, like Ukraine for example then the banks anti-fraud measures will normally pick it up after one or two transactions.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

I have not seen a BKK Bank with a chip as yet. And I recently renewed a damaged card.

Bangkok Bank credit and debit cards have chips...have for a long time. Actually, they also still have a debit card with the magnetic strip only and they have one with the chip. You, like me, apparently still have the magnetic stripe debit card. But that's at my own choice because Bangkok Bank debit card with the chip will only work in Bangkok Bank ATMs within Thailand and/or other EMV-capable ATMs (i.e, chip capable). Other Thai banks have not completed (some not even started) upgrade of their ATMs.

Unless you ask to change to the chipped Bangkok Bank debit card you will get a magnetic stripe card when getting a new/replacement debit card (they may change in the future but that's the way it is now). The magnetic stripe debit card has an annual fee of Bt200 and the chipped debit card has an annual fee of Bt300. Now store/cashier checkout POS machines in Thailand will accept chipped or magnetic stripe credit or debit cards...and actually use the chip if the card has one...otherwise it uses the magnetic stripe to complete the purchase.

[HampiK]

My credit card from kasikorn has only a chip and no magnetic strip. I hope (and so far i know) this i still quite secure.

[Pib]

My credit card from kasikorn has only a chip and no magnetic strip. I hope (and so far i know) this i still quite secure.

You sure there is no magnetic stripe on the back of the card also? Just yesterday I was standing behind a guy in Foodland...he was paying with a K-bank card, not sure if it was debit or credit, but when he handed it to the checkout clerk I could see it had a chip and magnetic stripe.

[HampiK]

My credit card from kasikorn has only a chip and no magnetic strip. I hope (and so far i know) this i still quite secure.

You sure there is no magnetic stripe on the back of the card also? Just yesterday I was standing behind a guy in Foodland...he was paying with a K-bank card, not sure if it was debit or credit, but when he handed it to the checkout clerk I could see it had a chip and magnetic stripe.

Hmmmmm.... at least there is no black magnetic strip visible on the back of the card.

[Chivas]

Yep I had it last Christmas in Pattaya or just after as I was coming home. Done at a Kasikorn ATM (the only one used over 6 weeks) . Only 3 hits on it and as I deliberately only use that Card by transferring funds in online prior to use, they got very little. Halifax reinstated within 48 hours no messing

Downside the card is compromised so if I had still been in Pattaya obviously u/s so back ups always needed

Edited September 28, 2015 by Chivas

[mrfaroukh]

If you have a western credit or debit card and there has been a fraud against it you may probably get the whole or some of money back. It depend on how careless you been when you used your code to withdraw money. It is not that easy to prove that it wasn't your fault. If it was a Thai card the chance is minimal to get the money back as most bank not have any insurance against fraud.

Anyway no harm to try. If you have a travel insurance they may also cover the loss.

[jspill]

This was in the news just a few days ago http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/857680-ukrainian-arrested-in-bangkok-with-48-fake-atm-cards/

Like someone posted above it happens almost every week, if you search the forum you'll find dozens of threads about ATM skimmers

Mostly in Pattaya, but elsewhere too

[jacko45k]

I have not had this problem YET !!

I always use an ATM located inside a bank.

Do Thai banks cover if it does happen? Bangkok bank??

Bangkok Bank issue chip and pin cards which are more resistant to skimming.

Unfortunately this means their cards will not work in other banks machines.

I agree about using machines inside a bank branch.....

I have heard that Thai Banks often refuse to refund skimming losses in the first instance.

[Berkshire]

Bangkok Bank offers an ATM card with a chip in it. I don't think it can be skimmed. The downside is that it only works at Bangkok Bank ATM's.

Wrong, I have had my Debit Card and Credit Card 'skimmed' both had 'chips' here and in Europe. They were issued through the HSBC and backed by Visa. Visa cover the losses then they try to recoup the money, I got all my money back immediately. If they can prove you 'misused' your card they will not, you have to sign a letter stating you had the card in your possession and not divulged the PIN number to anyone.

So if you have Cards make sure they are Visa backed, not sure if Masrecard covers you.

I have a Kasikorn account with a 'chip and pin' Visa Debit Card, when I use it at Big C I sign the slip, they don't check the signature against the one on the card, no Pin Number and don't ask for any identification, little wonder there are so many fraud eland cases of Cards in Thailand.

I have not seen a BKK Bank with a chip as yet. And I recently renewed a damaged card.

I've got one, a few months ago. Just ask for it.

[hugh2121]

Free standing ATMs outside 7/11 etc. are very vulnerable. I always try to use an ATM at a bank branch. If the ATM is outside there is usually a security man to watch over it.

[Slain]

Got stung for 10000 bht in Carrefour Pattaya about four years ago. The checkout machine did not accept my card for my shopping, So kindly checkout girl took my card away to the office machine to make it work!

Luckily I cancelled it when I got home.

Later that month, same thing nearly happened to my girlfriend..in Nongkai TL.

I managed to warn her and she stopped the check out girl in her tracks and gave her a mouthful. The girl handed her the card back looking very sheepish.

[Chivas]

I have not had this problem YET !!

I always use an ATM located inside a bank.

Do Thai banks cover if it does happen? Bangkok bank??

Bangkok Bank issue chip and pin cards which are more resistant to skimming.

Unfortunately this means their cards will not work in other banks machines.

I agree about using machines inside a bank branch.....

I have heard that Thai Banks often refuse to refund skimming losses in the first instance.

One of the reasons I have never once used my SCB atm card in a machine. If I need money I go in the branch with bank book. Can never ever be a claim that you were negligent

[roamer]

Wrong - your not on your own, your bank will cover this as with any fraud against your account.

For people like yourself who have faith in the banks to cover you against "any" fraud this is essential reading as it is a dangerously misplaced belief you are harbouring. I feel this persons pain as I lost a far smaller amount in somewhat different circumstances and the banks were totally useless, worse actually, as in this case they use the banking privacy laws to do zero to help you.What you stand to lose by skimming is peanuts compared to this.

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/chris-blackhurst-lost-thousands-in-a-cyber-scam-sorry-theres-nothing-the-banks-can-do-a2958856.html

[Pib]

For those of your with the Bangkok Bank Be1st Smart "chipped," repeat, chipped debit card, which at least use to only work in Bangkok Bank ATMs since Bangkok Bank was the first to completely upgrade their ATMs to the Europay, Mastercard, Visa (EMV) capability (fancy name for using the chip standard), have you been able to use that card in any other Thai bank ATMs? Like maybe Krungsri Bank ATMs which are suppose to be well along in upgrading their ATMs to be EMV capable.

Not concerned if you can use your Bangkok Bank chipped debit cards at store checkouts because almost all POS machines were upgraded years ago to handle chipped cards...plus the magnetic stripe still on the Be1st chipped card can supposedly still be used in non-EMV POS machines for "purchases only" if needed. Just interested if you have been able to get your Be1st chipped debit card to work in any other Thai bank ATMs.

[camsouth]

Had this happen twice now. Got reimbursed by my bank the 2nd time around but not the first.

Have been tightening security.... first time way back way (3 years ago) I still used those 7-11 open air ATM's.... got hit and lesson learned, so I thought. After that I only used ATMs inside department stores. Well the 2nd case (this year) happened because they had a scanner on the SCB atm INSIDE the Lotus at Pattaya Tai. Must have been some kind of keypad mold on job because I have always covered my PIN.

Lost $400 US the first time and $1100 US this time. Going old school now and will only use 1 single card... Kasikorn Bank, the only local bank (as far as I know) that allows you to reduce the withdrawal/transfer/purchase limits to zero by phone. Whenever I use it, I put the limit I want in.... and then right after I use it, I put the limit back to zero. All other bank accounts are now old school passbook only. Bye bye (cancelled) all other local atm cards. As for my foreign accounts, I have those cards in my safe and am sticking to online banking only now.

well i have not as yet been scammed like this but having a bbk account with chip works well. i never use my us card anymore except for air lines or hotel .now the us banks are adding chips to the cards. mine is on the way already from the states , . i do ag

ree use atms at banks or in side mails that get locked up at night. use cash except when shopping in big stores and only use bbk card

[camsouth]

For those of your with the Bangkok Bank Be1st Smart "chipped," repeat, chipped debit card, which at least use to only work in Bangkok Bank ATMs since Bangkok Bank was the first to completely upgrade their ATMs to the Europay, Mastercard, Visa (EMV) capability (fancy name for using the chip standard), have you been able to use that card in any other Thai bank ATMs? Like maybe Krungsri Bank ATMs which are suppose to be well along in upgrading their ATMs to be EMV capable.

Not concerned if you can use your Bangkok Bank chipped debit cards at store checkouts because almost all POS machines were upgraded years ago to handle chipped cards...plus the magnetic stripe still on the Be1st chipped card can supposedly still be used in non-EMV POS machines for "purchases only" if needed. Just interested if you have been able to get your Be1st chipped debit card to work in any other Thai bank ATMs.

i my self have never been able to use my bbk in any other atms. only my us card but now they have chips in as well. i did ask them if they will work in other atms that dont or cant scan the chip and they said yes .lol but we will see . i dont ever use it in atms anyway . stopped that a long time ago just use bbk

[dageurreotype]

Have been using ATM's in Thailand and surrounding countries for years and never had that problem.

Well lucky little you. Unfortunately many people have 'had that problem'. Go get smug somewhere else.

[Chivas]

Have been using ATM's in Thailand and surrounding countries for years and never had that problem.

Well lucky little you. Unfortunately many people have 'had that problem'. Go get smug somewhere else.

Agreed the longer you stay here time wise sooner or later its close to being a very high probability that it will occur at some point