Abbas says Palestinians no longer bound by pacts with Israel

[webfact]

Abbas says Palestinians no longer bound by pacts with Israel
By ZEINA KARAM and KARIN LAUB

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told world leaders Wednesday that he is no longer bound by agreements that have defined relations with Israel for the past two decades and are meant to form the basis for a two-state solution to the Middle East conflict.

But what sounded like a potentially explosive declaration was blunted by the lack of any detail on how he plans to move forward.

Addressing the United Nations General Assembly, Abbas said Israel had repeatedly violated its commitments, most notably by expanding settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, on lands the Palestinians seek for a future state.

Abbas' speech reflected growing Palestinian frustration and appeared aimed at focusing the attention of the international community — busy with the Syrian civil war and the migrants' crisis in Europe — on the long-festering Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

However, the Palestinian leader stopped short of specific threats that would irrevocably put him on a collision course with Israel, such as suspending security cooperation. Instead, he closed on a conciliatory note, saying that eventual peace between Israelis and Palestinians is "in the interest of our future generations."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office issued a statement in response, saying that Abbas had delivered a "speech of lies that encourages incitement and unrest in the Middle East."

Netanyahu called on Abbas to "act responsibly" and answer his proposal for direct negotiations with Israel without any preconditions. "The fact that time after time he (Abbas) does not respond is the best proof that he has no intention of reaching a peace agreement," he said.

No serious talks have been held since Netanyahu came to power in 2009. Abbas says he will not return to negotiations without a settlement freeze and an Israeli recognition of the pre-1967 frontier as the basis for border talks. Unlike some of his predecessors, Netanyahu has refused to accept the 1967 line as a starting point.

Abbas said Wednesday that Israel has repeatedly violated its commitments, including by expanding settlements, and called on the U.N. to provide international protection for the Palestinians.

The Palestinians "will not remain the only ones committed to the implementation of these agreements, while Israel continuously violates them," Abbas said. "We therefore declare that we cannot continue to be bound by these agreements and that Israel must assume all of its responsibilities as an occupying power."

Israel's actions "render us an authority without real powers," he said.

If Abbas were to go through with his demand that Israel assume responsibility for the Palestinians as the occupying power in the territories, this arguably would require dissolving the Palestinian Authority and Abbas' resignation. He didn't mention any of this in his speech.

He also made no specific mention of security coordination between his forces and the Israeli military in cracking down on a common foe, the Islamic militant Hamas.

Palestinian analyst Hani al-Masri said Abbas was trying to attract attention and pressure Israel.

"This is a threat not a plan," he said, speaking in Ramallah. "Abbas has no plan, otherwise he could have spelled it out in his speech."

With Israeli-Palestinian negotiations frozen, Abbas has failed to come up with a political alternative and in his address, he seemed to be asking for a new international process because the bilateral one is not working and has stalled.

"It is no longer useful to waste time in negotiations for the sake of negotiations; what is required is to mobilize international efforts to oversee an end to the occupation in line with the resolutions of international legitimacy," he said.

Thousands of Abbas supporters gathered in the city centers of several West Bank cities as they listened to Abbas' speech. They cheered when he said he is no longer bound by the signed agreements with Israel, waving Palestinian flags.

In a symbolic moment Wednesday, Abbas raised the flag of Palestine at the United Nations for the first time, with a promise that it will be raised soon in Jerusalem, "the capital of our Palestinian state."

More than 300 ministers, diplomats and well-wishers crowded into the rose garden at U.N. headquarters where a flagpole had been erected for the ceremony, which took place following Abbas' speech.The Palestinians campaigned for a General Assembly resolution, overwhelmingly approved Sept. 10, permitting U.N. observer states to fly their flags alongside those of the 193 U.N. member states. The Holy See and the Palestinians and are the only two U.N. observer states.

Abbas' U.N. remarks come at a time when the 80-year-old Palestinian leader appears to be losing the backing of the Palestinian public. A poll last week indicated that two-thirds want him to resign and that a majority no longer believe negotiations with Israel and a two-state solution are realistic.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said later Wednesday that an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement is "not an impossible dream" and can be achieved despite recent setbacks and tensions over holy sites in Jerusalem. He spoke to a meeting of donors to Palestinian development projects.
___

Laub reported from Amman, Jordan. Associated Press writers Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah, Ian Deitch in Jerusalem and Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-10-01

[Steely Dan]

There's so much sh1t happening in world politics at the moment that no amount of foot stamping or histrionics by Abbas gets any attention, except of course from some of our esteemed members.

[ToddinChonburi]

Get ready for more fighting to begin !!!!!

[Skygod2000]

The Israeli's have been ready for decades

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[boomerangutang]

Abbas is in a tough situation. Not much different than that loony Arafat. When you got a tiny fiefdom and nearly no power, it's hard to negotiate as a tough guy. Arafat had several instances when he could have agreed with Israel and the US, and things would have been somewhat peaceful and prosperous for Gaza and the West Bank. But Arafat stupidly hung tough, so decades of misery ensued. Abbas is not as dumb as Arafat, but he's still not smart enough to maintain an unsteady peace with Israel. If he breaks any pact he's already made with Israel, then his word will be trashed, and untold misery will befall his little fiefdom. His ragtag hot-heads who want to toss bombs over the fence have been emboldened.

[Jingthing]

Netanyahu responds. A speech worth watching. No bomb cartoons this time.

Start 30:50 --

Edited October 1, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

Abbas could be starting something daring and crafty......resign, dissolve the PA, and hand over to the Israelis. Take us, you're an occupying force, now deal with the people according to international law.

I'd love to see Netanyahu's face if that happened.

[ABCer]

Abbas could be starting something daring and crafty......resign, dissolve the PA, and hand over to the Israelis. Take us, you're an occupying force, now deal with the people according to international law.

I'd love to see Netanyahu's face if that happened.

You wouldn't be gloating if instead of that sissy Netanyahu there would be a hard man in charge.

All the secret of this part of fanatical Arabs calling themselves "Palestinians" survival and some degree of success is in

Shoot, launge and run.

And when caught - falling on their backs with legs and hands spread out for the world to watch them being sexually abused by IDF.

Never created anything worthwhile. No wonder no other Arab nation wants them.

I think those stupid Israelis should stop feeding the lazy treacherous sons of guns.

[Pakboong]

Abbas could be starting something daring and crafty......resign, dissolve the PA, and hand over to the Israelis. Take us, you're an occupying force, now deal with the people according to international law.

I'd love to see Netanyahu's face if that happened.

You wouldn't be gloating if instead of that sissy Netanyahu there would be a hard man in charge.

All the secret of this part of fanatical Arabs calling themselves "Palestinians" survival and some degree of success is in

Shoot, launge and run.

And when caught - falling on their backs with legs and hands spread out for the world to watch them being sexually abused by IDF.

Never created anything worthwhile. No wonder no other Arab nation wants them.

I think those stupid Israelis should stop feeding the lazy treacherous sons of guns.

Now, that is some serious hate speech. I personally like it as long as it works both ways.

[Steely Dan]

Abbas could be starting something daring and crafty......resign, dissolve the PA, and hand over to the Israelis. Take us, you're an occupying force, now deal with the people according to international law.

I'd love to see Netanyahu's face if that happened.

I hate to puncture your balloon with the pin of reality, but Abbas is bluffing. Without Israel to prop up his corrupt regime Hamas operatives would seize the West Bank and Abbas would be dangling from a rope, unless he escaped across the Jordan to his Country of birth that is.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6620/abbas-bluff

As one of Abbas's advisors, Mahmoud Habbash, later clarified, "President Abbas did not cancel any agreements. He only made a threat, which is not going to be carried out tomorrow."

[Jingthing]

An apt analysis of the Abbas speech:

Mahmoud Abbas Gives Up on Peace

There is no question that Mr. Abbas is an acutely bitter man. At 80, he has effectively given up on ever achieving a negotiated Palestinian state; he is increasingly unpopular among the Palestinians, and the Palestinian Authority he leads effectively controls only the West Bank since Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. His chief preoccupation lately has been on a series of gestures, largely futile, to gain international recognition of a Palestinian state, like the official raising of the Palestinian flag at the United Nations on Wednesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/opinion/mahmoud-abbas-gives-up-on-peace.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=1

Edited October 2, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Another interesting take on the Abbas speech.

Of course it changes nothing.

I'm also sure many people will find the part in the article about the disagreement about which side wins the "victimhood" prize of interest or even amusement.

This really isn't anything at all new. For there to be real progress for the Palestinians, they're going to have to directly deal with Israel, whether they want to or not.

http://forward.com/opinion/321944/abbas-at-un/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-2

In the end, though, nothing will come of Abbas’s hopes of establishing an independent Palestinian state unless an Israeli government agrees to withdraw its troops and let it happen. That would require that Israeli voters choose a government that’s willing to do that. Abbas’s habit of standing before the world community and calling Israelis horrible names doesn’t do much to move things in that direction.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Jingthing

[Linky]

Another interesting take on the Abbas speech.

Of course it changes nothing.

I'm also sure many people will find the part in the article about the disagreement about which side wins the "victimhood" prize of interest or even amusement.

This really isn't anything at all new. For there to be real progress for the Palestinians, they're going to have to directly deal with Israel, whether they want to or not.

http://forward.com/opinion/321944/abbas-at-un/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-2

In the end, though, nothing will come of Abbass hopes of establishing an independent Palestinian state unless an Israeli government agrees to withdraw its troops and let it happen. That would require that Israeli voters choose a government thats willing to do that. Abbass habit of standing before the world community and calling Israelis horrible names doesnt do much to move things in that direction.

It certainly does move things in the right direction as the majority of the world recognises Palestine.

[Seastallion]

Another interesting take on the Abbas speech.

Of course it changes nothing.

I'm also sure many people will find the part in the article about the disagreement about which side wins the "victimhood" prize of interest or even amusement.

This really isn't anything at all new. For there to be real progress for the Palestinians, they're going to have to directly deal with Israel, whether they want to or not.

http://forward.com/opinion/321944/abbas-at-un/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-2

In the end, though, nothing will come of Abbas’s hopes of establishing an independent Palestinian state unless an Israeli government agrees to withdraw its troops and let it happen. That would require that Israeli voters choose a government that’s willing to do that. Abbas’s habit of standing before the world community and calling Israelis horrible names doesn’t do much to move things in that direction.

"they're going to have to directly deal with Israel, whether they want to or not. "

Which is exactly why the UN needs to get tough. The UN organised the State of Israel 70 years ago despite Arab opposition. It is now time for the UN to organise the state of Palestine despite opposition from Israel.

If Israel want a say in things, they'd better start being conciliatory.

[Steely Dan]

Another interesting take on the Abbas speech.

Of course it changes nothing.

I'm also sure many people will find the part in the article about the disagreement about which side wins the "victimhood" prize of interest or even amusement.

This really isn't anything at all new. For there to be real progress for the Palestinians, they're going to have to directly deal with Israel, whether they want to or not.

http://forward.com/opinion/321944/abbas-at-un/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-2

In the end, though, nothing will come of Abbas’s hopes of establishing an independent Palestinian state unless an Israeli government agrees to withdraw its troops and let it happen. That would require that Israeli voters choose a government that’s willing to do that. Abbas’s habit of standing before the world community and calling Israelis horrible names doesn’t do much to move things in that direction.

"they're going to have to directly deal with Israel, whether they want to or not. "

Which is exactly why the UN needs to get tough. The UN organised the State of Israel 70 years ago despite Arab opposition. It is now time for the UN to organise the state of Palestine despite opposition from Israel.

If Israel want a say in things, they'd better start being conciliatory.

The UN organized BOTH the state of Israel AND the state of Palestine 70 years ago. The Arabs ignored the UN and invaded the new Jewish state. They lost and have been suffering the repercussions of their own intransigence ever since.

The UN will not alter facts on the ground now to create a Palestinian state any more than they provided military assistance for Israel when attacked by four Arab armies in 1948.

Though I'm sure we could have a whip round to buy blue berets if any of our esteemed keyboard warriors are willing to try.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Morch]

There's so much sh1t happening in world politics at the moment that no amount of foot stamping or histrionics by Abbas gets any attention, except of course from some of our esteemed members.

The international attention span being limited was mentioned a while back, when the IS crisis became prominent. As other items crowd the international agenda, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict gets temporarily relegated down the list.

Abbas is, obviously, frustrated by this state of things, and the tone of his speech reflected as much. If certain earlier reports are correct, the speech was not meant to be very confrontational, but escalating events back home and the currently seemingly indifferent (or rather, uninterested) stance of the USA. there were comments made to the effect that the Palestinians being largely "ignored" in key USA speeches pushed Abbas to step up his rhetoric.

I think that most key players and involved parties do not see the current state of things between Israel and the Palestinians as a very bright prospect for swift diplomatic achievements (as opposed to scoring points). What with other regional and global issues that need to be addressed, the relatively low intensity conflict between the parties takes the back seat.

While Abbas communicates his frustration, the perceived international lack of interest might actually serve him well. Abbas clearly considers focus on diplomatic moves aimed at conferring greater international legitimacy and support for the Palestinian cause (coupled with similar efforts to discredit Israel and weaken its position), as the best approach to further Palestinian independence. Most of the relevant actions, however, are in contradiction to signed agreements with Israel, take relatively long to bear fruit,and have a marginal effect on the everyday life of Palestinians.

Proclaiming discretionary commitment to standing agreements creates an ambiguous diplomatic atmosphere, which could allow more leeway with regard upcoming future initiatives. Almost, but not quite, throwing the toys our of the pram, could easily result in greater support for future diplomatic struggles and speeding up ongoing ones.

Abbas is not exactly Mr. Popularity among the Palestinians - the political gains from his diplomatic efforts are limited and short-lived, due to their negligible effect on everyday life. For many, they are indicative of his "weakness", when contrasted with the form of resistance offered by Hamas or as currently taking place, in the context of Al-Aqsa. Lack of public support dictates the limits of what Abbas can do on the diplomatic front, and influences the tone of what he says. Might not be the best time for him to be waving the proverbial olive branch and getting photo-oped with Netanyahu.

To convey some of Abbas's low approval rating domestically, the main issues doing the rounds on the Palestinian social media were the current violence and Mohammed Assaf's engagement announcement. As If this was not enough, Al Jazeera (in Arabic) switched to Kerry's speech halfway through.

[Morch]

Abbas is in a tough situation. Not much different than that loony Arafat. When you got a tiny fiefdom and nearly no power, it's hard to negotiate as a tough guy. Arafat had several instances when he could have agreed with Israel and the US, and things would have been somewhat peaceful and prosperous for Gaza and the West Bank. But Arafat stupidly hung tough, so decades of misery ensued. Abbas is not as dumb as Arafat, but he's still not smart enough to maintain an unsteady peace with Israel. If he breaks any pact he's already made with Israel, then his word will be trashed, and untold misery will befall his little fiefdom. His ragtag hot-heads who want to toss bombs over the fence have been emboldened.

There are enough infringements and going back on agreements from both sides to keep posters going until kingdom come. Anything Abbas pulls up on this front will not be original, nor terribly shocking. It is just the way these agreements are, in effect, implemented and applied - again, both sides at it (and for the sake of not going OT, lets pretend the score of posts arguing who carries the lion's share of violations were already deployed). Not much to lose by way of honesty and integrity on both sides.

Abbas is in a tough spot over negotiations because of two reasons - lack of public support and having no one to tango with on the Israeli side. There is no "unsteady peace" to maintain, there are a bunch of temporary agreements which were originally meant as a framework for a permanent overall agreement, with an assortment of later ad-hoc additions. There were no clear understandings reached on any of the core issues. Most of them agreements over-lived their sale-by date, and to a certain degree became obsolete by political developments or sides' disregard.

Them "ragtag hot-heads who want to toss bombs over the fence", whomever they might be, are not "his". Abbas bears minimal influence over Hamas and Islamic Jihad organizations, while his control over popular violence in the West Bank is debatable.

[Morch]

Abbas could be starting something daring and crafty......resign, dissolve the PA, and hand over to the Israelis. Take us, you're an occupying force, now deal with the people according to international law.

I'd love to see Netanyahu's face if that happened.

Misguided fantasies.

Abbas is a politician, not the heroic leader some imagine him to be. Making such moves in anathema to his career as telling the truth is to Netanyahu.

A resignation by itself does not mean the PA will be dissolved. Several Palestinian bodies will have to convene and nullify the agreements. The notion that Abbas, with his marginal approval ratings commands that much influence is quite out there.

Israel was the occupying force in the past, and to a lesser extent (excluding areas administered by the PA) is so today. Both instances (before and after the creation of the PA) were never deemed legitimate as far as international law goes. Israel is considered the occupying force with regards to the Gaza Strip - didn't really change things all that much when it comes to the daily lives of the Gazans.

And there's the rub - the course of action outlined in the post above is not about what is good for the Palestinian people, but about what extremists and outsiders feel ought to be their stance. That dissolving the PA is an almost assured recipe for prolonging the conflict, and spells increased hardship for the Palestinian people is negligible when weighed against scoring one on Netanyahu.

[Morch]

Abbas could be starting something daring and crafty......resign, dissolve the PA, and hand over to the Israelis. Take us, you're an occupying force, now deal with the people according to international law.

I'd love to see Netanyahu's face if that happened.

I hate to puncture your balloon with the pin of reality, but Abbas is bluffing. Without Israel to prop up his corrupt regime Hamas operatives would seize the West Bank and Abbas would be dangling from a rope, unless he escaped across the Jordan to his Country of birth that is.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6620/abbas-bluff

As one of Abbas's advisors, Mahmoud Habbash, later clarified, "President Abbas did not cancel any agreements. He only made a threat, which is not going to be carried out tomorrow."

Abbas was born in Safed, not in Jordan.

Regardless of Abbas not cancelling agreements, your post actually makes a good case for the Israeli government to do its best strengthening Abbas's position rather than spurning him and undermining his authority. Abbas might not be the ideal partner for peace, but is much preferable to the alternatives (goes for both opposition and potential successors within the Fatah). That is, provided reaching conflict resolution (with the various compromises it entails) being a goal.

[ggold]

Abbas could be starting something daring and crafty......resign, dissolve the PA, and hand over to the Israelis. Take us, you're an occupying force, now deal with the people according to international law.

I'd love to see Netanyahu's face if that happened.

I hate to puncture your balloon with the pin of reality, but Abbas is bluffing. Without Israel to prop up his corrupt regime Hamas operatives would seize the West Bank and Abbas would be dangling from a rope, unless he escaped across the Jordan to his Country of birth that is.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6620/abbas-bluff

As one of Abbas's advisors, Mahmoud Habbash, later clarified, "President Abbas did not cancel any agreements. He only made a threat, which is not going to be carried out tomorrow."

Abbas was born in Safed, not in Jordan.

Regardless of Abbas not cancelling agreements, your post actually makes a good case for the Israeli government to do its best strengthening Abbas's position rather than spurning him and undermining his authority. Abbas might not be the ideal partner for peace, but is much preferable to the alternatives (goes for both opposition and potential successors within the Fatah). That is, provided reaching conflict resolution (with the various compromises it entails) being a goal.

Maybe but he has a Jordanian Passport. Abbas is a spent force in the West Bank. he is hated by his own people. That is why he hasn't cancelled the security agreements with Israel. He needs Israel to stay alive!

As for successors, there aren't any because Abbas didn't see fit to prepare for when he retires. But until the Arabs can present a united front for peace, there will not be peace.

[Morch]

Abbas was born in Safed, not in Jordan.

Regardless of Abbas not cancelling agreements, your post actually makes a good case for the Israeli government to do its best strengthening Abbas's position rather than spurning him and undermining his authority. Abbas might not be the ideal partner for peace, but is much preferable to the alternatives (goes for both opposition and potential successors within the Fatah). That is, provided reaching conflict resolution (with the various compromises it entails) being a goal.

Maybe but he has a Jordanian Passport. Abbas is a spent force in the West Bank. he is hated by his own people. That is why he hasn't cancelled the security agreements with Israel. He needs Israel to stay alive!

As for successors, there aren't any because Abbas didn't see fit to prepare for when he retires. But until the Arabs can present a united front for peace, there will not be peace.

No "maybe" about it, he was born in Safed, not Jordan.

Considering Netanyahu's citizenship status seems as murky, might not be the best angle to bash Abbas.

No argument that Abbas isn't very popular with Palestinians (although "hated by his own people" is an exaggeration). The point was that Israel (especially under Netanyahu) did little to bolster his authority and standing. Repeatedly belittling Abbas while enhancing a reality where he could not deliver much for his people eroded his credibility and undermined his influence (which, granted, were not too great to begin with). This, in turn, leads to it being harder for him to uphold and promote conflict resolution through negotiations.

I suggest that Israel's best interest would have been to see have a politically stronger Abbas at the Palestinian helm. Not because Abbas is a great leader, a very nice person or a true friend to Israel - but simply by virtue of being relatively moderate and reasonable. The current alternatives to Abbas are either Hamas or a PA/Fatah leadership vacuum. Dealing with a pragmatic politician beats holding talks with extremist zealots and is preferable to anarchy.

The last bit touches upon the succession issue. While true enough that Abbas could have done better on this front, it probably would have been easier with greater public support. Israel often dismissing him as irrelevant surely did not help. Once again, having a look at his counterpart - Netanyahu effectively drove away any emerging force within his party deemed a political threat (which does much to explain the current crop populating his coalition). And while at it, worth mentioning that Netanyahu's own approval ratings are far from sky high.