Russia's entry into Syria is a grave escalation

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Russia's entry into Syria is a grave escalation
The Nation

The United States and its allies have been caught without a game plan in the fight against Isis

BANGKOK: -- Last week Russian jet fighters started carrying out air strikes against Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) positions, as well as groups that are armed by United States and its Nato allies.

In expanding its military presence to defend the Syrian government of President Bashar al-Assad, Russia is following the lead of Iran, which has had 1,500 troops in Syria for months and is now sending more. Their allies in the fight include 5,000 Hezbollah fighters from Lebanon. The Shi'ite militant group Hezbollah is under the directive of Iran.

John McCain, chairman of the US Senate armed forces committee, has termed the swelling conflict a proxy war between the US and Russia. He accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of "treating the US with disdain and contempt" by "inserting himself into the Middle East in a way that Russia has not been since [former Egyptian president] Anwar Sadat threw them out in 1973".

US President Barack Obama dismissed McCain's characterisation of the conflict. "This is not some superpower chessboard contest," he said.

Judging from reports, it appears that Russia's air strikes against the rebel groups came as a surprise to Washington, but they shouldn't have, because Putin has been quite open about Moscow's support for the regime in Damascus. While Washington sees Assad as an obstacle that must be removed, Moscow insists that the dictator can and must be part of the solution.

In Putin's view, however, the disagreement between the superpowers involves much deeper elements. He complained at last week's UN General Assembly that "some countries" meddle in other nations' business in an effort to extend democracy through revolution. "Instead of bringing about reforms, aggressive intervention rashly destroys government institutions and the local way of life," Putin said. "The only way to solve this problem for good is to restore statehood where it has been destroyed." And that, he said, includes shoring up "the legitimate government of Syria".

He has a point. If democracy does not result from the toil of vigilance of citizens, it is apt to fall prey to strongmen seizing power in the name of maintaining stability.

But let's not be fooled: Putin is no champion of democracy. He is, after all, a strongman ruling on the basis of not just domestic stability but that of trusted allies like Syria. If his own meddling in the Middle East means that Russia and Iran will become even more isolated in the global community, Putin is prepared to accept that consequence.

Even if Putin is right about America's habit of intervening in other nations' affairs, the real reason for his entry into the Syrian conflict is likely that he wants a seat at the table when the country's fate is ultimately negotiated among the victors.

Lacking a clear answer to the question of who might best run Syria in Assad's stead, the West can only attempt to meet Tehran and Moscow halfway. Until it has that answer, Russian air strikes will continue, and likely target US-back rebels specifically, as they did this past week. Russia is not ignoring the ISIS fighters by any means. Moscow is deeply concerned that more than 2,000 Russian citizens have joined ISIS. Putin made it clear in his UN speech that he doesn't want them back.

Obama will have to accept Moscow's premise that Assad must be part of the solution or else up the ante with ground troops, a scenario the US is loath to contemplate given its costly debacles elsewhere in the region.

Obama has said he is fully aware of the immense humanitarian catastrophe this conflict is generating. He adds, however, "Unless we can get the parties on the ground to agree to live together in some fashion, then no amount of US military engagement will solve the problem."

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Russias-entry-into-Syria-is-a-grave-escalation-30270411.html


-- The Nation 2015-10-08

[oneday]

Russia's entry into Syria is a grave escalation

You think?

[hard124get]

It is the grave of ISIS. and their paymasters.

[FangFerang]

Part of the US grudge fight against Assad is because the Syrians were cranking out counterfeit US money from an intaglio press they owned. A few years back, Israel carried out airstrikes against an "unspecified" Syrian target and left it in rubble.

They intercepted over a million counterfeit US bills on the Syrian border, and that started the row before all that. There are VERY few intaglio printing presses in the world that have the pressure to counterfeit dollars, and NATO knows where every one of them is.

All that aside, this line showing doubt is a choice selection of hilarity "Even if Putin is right about America's habit of intervening in other nations' affairs".

Um, everyone knows the US has been the bully on the block for quite some time now.

Edited October 8, 2015 by FangFerang

[khwaibah]

Iraq leans toward Russia in war on Islamic State

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iraq-leans-toward-russia-in-war-on-islamic-state/ar-AAfcUbs?li=AAa0dzB

[NeverSure]

This is reminiscent of the last time the US had a president with no balls.

Iran and Russia were walking all over the stupid peanut farmer, Jimmy Carter. Then Reagan became president. The Soviet Union collapsed on Reagan's watch. Reagan made the famous statement about Berlin, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall".

The Iran hostage crisis bedeviled Carter but the hostages were released just hours after Reagan replaced Carter as president.

So here we have Iran and Russia getting the best of Obama because Obama has no balls and no brains. Period.

Obama should retire and buy a peanut farm.

Edited October 8, 2015 by NeverSure

[h90]

Part of the US grudge fight against Assad is because the Syrians were cranking out counterfeit US money from an intaglio press they owned. A few years back, Israel carried out airstrikes against an "unspecified" Syrian target and left it in rubble.

They intercepted over a million counterfeit US bills on the Syrian border, and that started the row before all that. There are VERY few intaglio printing presses in the world that have the pressure to counterfeit dollars, and NATO knows where every one of them is.

All that aside, this line showing doubt is a choice selection of hilarity "Even if Putin is right about America's habit of intervening in other nations' affairs".

Um, everyone knows the US has been the bully on the block for quite some time now.

Like the mass destruction weapons of Saddam?

[ABCer]

OP <quote> "He (McCain) accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of "treating the US with disdain and contempt" by "inserting himself into the Middle East in a way that Russia has not been since [former Egyptian president] Anwar Sadat threw them out in 1973".

McCain is famous for his 'foot-in-mouth' sentences, but this one is well timed and to the point. Do US have a God given monopoly on inserting their military into the Middle East?

Besides, they had a long head start on their insertion. Did they achieve any good? Ask the Europeans.

[OMGImInPattaya]

And America's entry into Iran, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Yemen, and Pakistan (did I forget anyone) have all been for the good I suppose.

[boomerangutang]

It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback (an American term for judging an event after it happens, and saying what you would have done differently).

There are no good solutions in the Middle East - only less grievous ones.

I don't like Trump, but he made an interesting glancing comment. something like, "Let the Russians and ISIS duke it out for awhile." Probably similar to Israel's overview.

I feel a bit sorry for the Rebels who will be in the crosshairs of Russian guns and missiles. However, today's good-guy rebels could be tomorrow's bad guys. Alliances change with the shifting sands in that region.

It's somewhat similar to when black communities in the US rioted when MLK was killed. They had a lot of anger. It was nearly all young men who did the destruction, though everyone helped themselves to stealing from stores. Regardless of how much they trashed their neighborhoods, the blacks knew federal and state money would come around to help rebuild. In the Middle East, there's a lot of anger (always has been, always will be) and they're pulverizing neighborhoods. They also know that whoever is still standing when the smoke clears, will get massive aid hand-outs. Likely from the UN and its agencies, but also from whichever countries are satisfied with the winners: either US/Europe/Saudi on one side or Russia Iran on the other. As for China, it doesn't care who wins, it will run in there trying to garner resources and sign contracts, as soon as it's safe enough to do so. China has always left it to Europe to do the dirty work. As soon as the smoke clears, Chinese commercial interests are all gladhanding all over the place.

[Thaidream]

It is time for the US to stay out of this conflict . Since the Russians want to conduct an air campaign- let them. The United State needs to get out of the whole area. Neither Iraq or Afghanistan will fight for their own country. They don't want ISIS but are willing to have the Americans continue to die for them. The best way to handle Putin is to let him use up his country's resources fighting in Syria. The Americans and Nato are afraid of ISIS. Let Russia do the job for them and who cares if Assad stays in power. There is no real American national interests in the area, The US Congress just sent Obama a military spending bill of $630 Billion for the next year. This is way over the top when we have Americans suffering with high prices and low wages or even unemployed. College and medical costs are hardly affordable any more. the Social Security fund is running low on money. A countries true power is its economic prowess and how it takes care of its most vulnerable citizens not its military might. Bring the troops home and start taking care of Americans.

[Chicog]

Iraq leans toward Russia in war on Islamic State

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iraq-leans-toward-russia-in-war-on-islamic-state/ar-AAfcUbs?li=AAa0dzB

Which is a funny way of saying "Shi'a leans toward Shi'a ally in war on Sunni".

[Chicog]

It is time for the US to stay out of this conflict . Since the Russians want to conduct an air campaign- let them. The United State needs to get out of the whole area. Neither Iraq or Afghanistan will fight for their own country. They don't want ISIS but are willing to have the Americans continue to die for them. The best way to handle Putin is to let him use up his country's resources fighting in Syria. The Americans and Nato are afraid of ISIS. Let Russia do the job for them and who cares if Assad stays in power. There is no real American national interests in the area, The US Congress just sent Obama a military spending bill of $630 Billion for the next year. This is way over the top when we have Americans suffering with high prices and low wages or even unemployed. College and medical costs are hardly affordable any more. the Social Security fund is running low on money. A countries true power is its economic prowess and how it takes care of its most vulnerable citizens not its military might. Bring the troops home and start taking care of Americans.

Spot on. You don't need their oil.

They really have nothing to offer the US apart from strife and refugees.

Get out and let them kill each other.

Surgical strikes when necessary to ensure WMDs don't make their way elsewhere.

[craigt3365]

And America's entry into Iran, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Yemen, and Pakistan (did I forget anyone) have all been for the good I suppose.

I think Kuwait was quite happy with the American support when they were over run by Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait

In December 2002, Saddam Hussein apologized for the invasion shortly before being deposed in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.^[57] Two years later, the Palestinian leadership also apologized for its wartime support of Saddam.^[58] A longtime ally of Saddam Hussein, in 1990 Yemen's president, Ali Abdullah Saleh backed Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. After Iraq lost the Gulf War, Yemenis were deported en masse from Kuwait by the restored government.

[boomerangutang]

I can kinda understand the reasoning of 'US should stay the hell out of any and all conflicts in the dune countries.'

Yet, here are 2 basic reasons why that would be tough to do:

1. Oil

2. Americans can't stand to stay on the sidelines when they see whole groups of people getting screwed. Recently, there was the large group in Iraq who were herded out of their town by ISIS - up to a hill top with no food, water or shelter, .....and told to tough it out. Taliban would stone young females for any offense - even looking at a young boy with more than a glance, or deigning to ask to go to school. Chinese, Indians, Brazilians, Nigerians can stand aside and let all sorts of ugly things happen, but Americans feel compelled to try and fix the situation. Yes, it's like moths to flame, but that's the way it is.

[JHolmesJr]

…..Americans feel compelled to try and fix the situation.

Sometimes, you wish they weren't so selfless and altruistic.

[hard124get]

This is reminiscent of the last time the US had a president with no balls.

Iran and Russia were walking all over the stupid peanut farmer, Jimmy Carter. Then Reagan became president. The Soviet Union collapsed on Reagan's watch. Reagan made the famous statement about Berlin, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall".

The Iran hostage crisis bedeviled Carter but the hostages were released just hours after Reagan replaced Carter as president.

So here we have Iran and Russia getting the best of Obama because Obama has no balls and no brains. Period.

Obama should retire and buy a peanut farm.

Reagan ran from Lebanon. US never fired a bullet under Carter's watch and were respected around the world.. US are now seen as the greatest threat to world peace.

[boomerangutang]

This is reminiscent of the last time the US had a president with no balls.

Iran and Russia were walking all over the stupid peanut farmer, Jimmy Carter. Then Reagan became president. The Soviet Union collapsed on Reagan's watch. Reagan made the famous statement about Berlin, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall".

The Iran hostage crisis bedeviled Carter but the hostages were released just hours after Reagan replaced Carter as president.

So here we have Iran and Russia getting the best of Obama because Obama has no balls and no brains. Period.

Obama should retire and buy a peanut farm.

Reagan ran from Lebanon. US never fired a bullet under Carter's watch and were respected around the world.. US are now seen as the greatest threat to world peace.

Glowing example of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' mentality. Most Obama haters are accusing him of being too pro-active. Now you're saying he's got no balls. One thing's for certain, right-wingers will tie themselves in knots trying to get mud to stick to Obama. Each prez has challenges. Some deal with those challenges wisely, like Carter (though the hostage rescue failed, but not directly his fault), ....others make bigger messes, like Reagan (Iran Contra) and Bush Junior (Gulf War II). If you wanna get muck to stick to Obama, you gotta do a smarter job of mudslinging. Obama is doing a good job with challenges - if you ask me and the majority of American voters.

A quick note about Romney, who would be US prez if Obama-haters had their way: Romney advocated large increases for US military spending, far beyond what the military would request. Yup, he and Ryan said that during their failed campaign.

[boomerangutang]

the phrase 'grave escalation' in the title of the OP is eerily predictive. escalation of graves ....except many of the dead won't get buried in graves. They'll be pulverized in the ruins of a building.

[cookee68]

carry on boys, and we should say the same, we targeted 2 UK terrorists in Syria from wales and the do gooders are asking for paperwork to prove that it was ok, next the terrorist family will want compensation, and possibly get it, do what Putin does, get rid of the scum that left the UK to join as well, we dont want them back either

[uksomchai]

If you are going to fight a war then fight it as if you intend to win it. For the past two years the West has told its people they are fighting a war on terror and have removed vat amounts of the both rights and freedoms of their own people in the process and yet they have failed miserably. Here we have putin who has sat back and watched this fiasco and is now showing both Obama and cameron just how a true leader fights and wins a war on ISIS and it is hurting their overinflated egos something rotten

[ABCer]

It is time for the US to stay out of this conflict . Since the Russians want to conduct an air campaign- let them. The United State needs to get out of the whole area. Neither Iraq or Afghanistan will fight for their own country. They don't want ISIS but are willing to have the Americans continue to die for them. The best way to handle Putin is to let him use up his country's resources fighting in Syria. The Americans and Nato are afraid of ISIS. Let Russia do the job for them and who cares if Assad stays in power. There is no real American national interests in the area, The US Congress just sent Obama a military spending bill of $630 Billion for the next year. This is way over the top when we have Americans suffering with high prices and low wages or even unemployed. College and medical costs are hardly affordable any more. the Social Security fund is running low on money. A countries true power is its economic prowess and how it takes care of its most vulnerable citizens not its military might. Bring the troops home and start taking care of Americans.

Spot on. You don't need their oil.

They really have nothing to offer the US apart from strife and refugees.

Get out and let them kill each other.

Surgical strikes when necessary to ensure WMDs don't make their way elsewhere.

Do you mean Iran is excluded because Obama signed the 'Deal'?

It will be rather peculiar for your next President to do a surgical strike after Obama signed the Deal cancelling formally the Non-proliferation Treaty.

Oh, sorry I forgot US can do it with Israelis hands so that they can stand aside, shake their head and point finger in condemnation.

Why, oh why USA politics is rapidly losing respect? I know. Because the World is full of US bashers... and I must one of them.

Edited October 10, 2015 by ABCer

[Chicog]

It is time for the US to stay out of this conflict . Since the Russians want to conduct an air campaign- let them. The United State needs to get out of the whole area. Neither Iraq or Afghanistan will fight for their own country. They don't want ISIS but are willing to have the Americans continue to die for them. The best way to handle Putin is to let him use up his country's resources fighting in Syria. The Americans and Nato are afraid of ISIS. Let Russia do the job for them and who cares if Assad stays in power. There is no real American national interests in the area, The US Congress just sent Obama a military spending bill of $630 Billion for the next year. This is way over the top when we have Americans suffering with high prices and low wages or even unemployed. College and medical costs are hardly affordable any more. the Social Security fund is running low on money. A countries true power is its economic prowess and how it takes care of its most vulnerable citizens not its military might. Bring the troops home and start taking care of Americans.

Spot on. You don't need their oil.

They really have nothing to offer the US apart from strife and refugees.

Get out and let them kill each other.

Surgical strikes when necessary to ensure WMDs don't make their way elsewhere.

Do you mean Iran is excluded because Obama signed the 'Deal'?

It will be rather peculiar for your next President to do a surgical strike after Obama signed the Deal cancelling formally the Non-proliferation Treaty.

Oh, sorry I forgot US can do it with Israelis hands so that they can stand aside, shake their head and point finger in condemnation.

Why, oh why USA politics is rapidly losing respect? I know. Because the World is full of US bashers... and I must one of them.

No, I don't actually mean something I never said.