Expats living on their pension in Thailand, why the negativity?

[Naam]

@robertthebruce I already live in Thailand and my wife and I built a home in the northern region. I am not near a pension age so we are living off other investments. I was just curious why I had read many negative responses about "pensioners" in Thailand. But I am with you, I think if anyone can pull it off they should go live it and it shouldn't be viewed in a negative light.

The biggest mistake people make is pulling the pin early on work and living on investments,These could easily disappear in an emergency.I would rather work on in my 50's,than be broke in my 60's with no job prospects.

some people make the mistake planning to work till they are in their 60s but are carried to the graveyard in their 50s.

i retired with 46 and was diagnosed with liver cancer 2 years later. my thoughts were "it's really shitty to die with 48 but nobody can take these 2 years from me." the fact that the diagnosis was wrong doesn't change my view.

[manarak]

I remember an incident on a baht bus.

(There he goes again!)

I got into a conflict with a sleazy baht bus driver who was trying to overcharge the bus full of mostly tourists.

I tried to insist on paying what I knew, as a resident, was the correct fare, and the driver looked like he was on the edge of getting violent (because in doing so I was informing the people on the bus they were being taken).

So a callous young Russian man started to mock and laugh at me (poor old westerner, can't afford the fare, as if) and offered to pay the driver the extra money for me. (No, I didn't accept his offer as that wasn't the point.)

Now with most of Russians gone with the crashed ruble, I like to imagine him as a stealth Russian soldier in Ukraine living on mush.

Oh well!

Russian like paying more. therefore Russian customers and Thai vendors are a match made in heaven!

Reminds me a russian joke about "new russians"

Goes like this:

A new Russian arrives at Zurich Airport only to find his flight, on which he had booked first class tickets already left. Disrespectful Western airline! dogs!

Luckily, another Russian passenger heard his swearing from 2 airport halls across the airport and offered him seats on his private jet.

The new Russian gladly accepts, not without insisting on how expensive the first class tickets had been.

The two Russians quickly become friends and mid flight the conversation steered towards shopping in Switzerland.

The host proudly pulled his sleeve up to display a superb gold, platinum and diamond watch he bought at one of the Bahnhofstrasse's most exclusive jewelers.

"That did cost 80.000 USD he announces proudly"

His passenger then says "very nice, but I think you were scammed!"

"why is that?"

"because I paid twice as much for the same watch!"

<laugh now>

[Cypress Hill]

The only negative feelings that I have here are based around the fact that we, as farangs, have absolutely no rights at all here, a fact that considerably undermines one,s peace of mind. Totally legitimate tourists are sometimes given extreme hassles at immigration, you can be attacked by a thai and have no recourse whatsoever, since there is an extremely high chance that any policeman will take the side of the thai who attacked you ! Whether you know it or not, you are looked on as prey to any thai person wishing to take what you have worked for. On first arrival things do indeed look rosy, but stay here long enough and you will encounter the darker side of this lovely country

Classic

Perhaps you didn't realise you had "no rights" in Thailand before you turned up at the airport.

Perhaps someone held a sidearm to your head and frogmarched you onto the flight.

[stephen tracy]

Yeah, really? Well I'm a pensioner but I'm not old and I'm far from poor, plus I have the advantage of experience. I'm also quite handsome and I'm over here, so go eat your hearts out youth, whoever you may be!

And modest too! I've met a number of retirees from various Western countries here in Thailand who make claims to being handsome/sexually desirable, and while this might be the case for some, with others, it seems that they've been told they're handsome by that many hookers or backward, country bumpkin gold-diggers, they actually come to believe it. Some also seem to be under the misguided impression that living in Thailand has somehow made them worldly and/or interesting. Regardless, I see nothing wrong with enjoying a higher standard of living in a country like Thailand if one so desires, whether on a pension or otherwise. I was born in the UK - never really lived there though - and even if I was mega rich, I would never choose to live there. I think perhaps some of the resentful comments directed against foreign national pensioners might be the result of barbed, smug, pathetically self-righteous comments from old curmudgeons directed at foreigners living in LOS on tourist visas. It's rather amusing at times to watch these squabbles unfold on TV... well kind of.

[louse1953]

Don't really get the point of the question here.

The widespread stereotype of "pensioners" is that they are old and not rich.

As pensioners age, they indeed do get even older and because their incomes are usually fixed, even poorer.

Of course not everyone fits the stereotype.

Some people receive earlier age pensions and many pensioners are wealthy due to various personal circumstances.

Is this rocket science? Socially, old is not cool. Poor is not cool. Double those ... doubly not cool.

Of course someone in their 20's can be dirt poor and very cool ... the youth trumps.

Next ...

I would rather be the rich old bugger i am now,than a dirt poor pimply youth of today.The world will be in a lot worse shape in 30 years time,so i don't want to be here.Missed out on all the wars and have seen prosperity in my country.The youth of today will curse us for the world we have left them,can't blame them.

[louse1953]

At 59, I am living on my personal nest egg. Government pension doesn't kick in for another 3 years. When it does, I will stop using my money for tax reasons as long as I can.

I ran into a Kiwi a year or so ago. He claimed his gov't pension was 25,000 baht a month and was able to save a bit. I have allowed myself at least 2 times that amount and am getting by quite well.

I also don't recall seeing negative posts. Maybe I too am able to ignore the negative posts.

Interesting information.

Can you share what type of visa/extension of stay allows you to stay in Thailand ?

Over 50 or married take your pick,just gotta have a bit in the bank.

[Cypress Hill]

@robertthebruce I already live in Thailand and my wife and I built a home in the northern region. I am not near a pension age so we are living off other investments. I was just curious why I had read many negative responses about "pensioners" in Thailand. But I am with you, I think if anyone can pull it off they should go live it and it shouldn't be viewed in a negative light.

The biggest mistake people make is pulling the pin early on work and living on investments,These could easily disappear in an emergency.I would rather work on in my 50's,than be broke in my 60's with no job prospects.

some people make the mistake planning to work till they are in their 60s but are carried to the graveyard in their 50s.

i retired with 46 and was diagnosed with liver cancer 2 years later. my thoughts were "it's really shitty to die with 48 but nobody can take these 2 years from me." the fact that the diagnosis was wrong doesn't change my view.

Amen to THAT brother

[csabo]

Cypress Hill

For every pensioner quietly going about his business, not demanding preferential treatment, enjoying his life on a nice, comfortable pension he paid into over a lifetime of hard graft, there's 20 more hanging on by the skin of their teeth financially - subsisting on food hall noodles and a happy hour Leo.

Those 20 tend to be the most vociferous and those are the ones I take the mick out of.

bull's eye!

Who's mick??

Mick

[bazza40]

Yeah, really? Well I'm a pensioner but I'm not old and I'm far from poor, plus I have the advantage of experience. I'm also quite handsome and I'm over here, so go eat your hearts out youth, whoever you may be!

Quite handsome? Post a photo so we can make an informed judgment.

[northernphil]

Cypress Hill

For every pensioner quietly going about his business, not demanding preferential treatment, enjoying his life on a nice, comfortable pension he paid into over a lifetime of hard graft, there's 20 more hanging on by the skin of their teeth financially - subsisting on food hall noodles and a happy hour Leo.

Those 20 tend to be the most vociferous and those are the ones I take the mick out of.

bull's eye!

Who's mick??

You must know Mick ! Some folk take him out every day. Then take him out of the bar to take home every night. This of course after he has extracted the urine.

[louse1953]

If self funded pensions OK.

Not jealousy from me, with an income many times the aged pension, but a degree of disgust.

I worked 43 years, never drew a cent from the government, provided for myself, and am a self funded retiree. I live in Australia, mostly, so continue to pay GST, and other federal and state indirect taxes.

Somebody who paid a lot less tax than I did, and continue to do, receives an aged pension, and then leaves the country, contributing nothing further. I think if a recipient is not living in the country that pays his state funded pension, it should be reduced by what tax that pension may attract if the recipient was living in his home country...... start at about 25%, but possibly more.

Paying income tax is not the same as paying into a private superannuation fund.

Yes'but those oldies aren't clogging up the roads,public transport and hospitals.Norway woke up to this ages ago.A lot of people can be as clever as you and do the best they can in life.Why be disgusted with somebody you have never met.I live here,self funded but the Aust govt still tax me,from zero, 32 and half % on my meager earings from my house rental.They conveniently make me a non-resident even though still a citizen.Legal thievery.

[gyrosman]

Newbe good luck.

[bazza40]

I am a self funded retiree living in Thailand and have done so for the past 5 years. I have purchased a house in Bangkok which I share with my Thai wife of 8 years and enjoy my current lifestyle. I don't consider myself as wealthy but comfortable something I could not have done in my home country Australia. I have been able to do this due to my private contributions to superannuation. The only negative thing for me is that when I'm eligible for the Old Age Pension I will have to return to Australia for 2 years prior to my 66th birthday and then am not guaranteed that I will be approved for the OAP. I have many friends in Australia who may not be jealous but are envious of me. Should anyone be able to provide information as to how to receive the OAP without returning to Australia your comments would be appreciated.

This is one of the Centrelink rules which is blatantly discrimination. It shouldn't matter a rat's arse whether you are inside or outside Australia when you apply for the OAP, but there it is.

You need to have worked in Australia for 35 years to qualify for a part or full OAP.

While I can't help you with the return issue, I suggest you get to a Centrelink office as fast as you can and make an an appointment with a Financial Services Officer. Don't deal with the regular staff, they are poorly-trained part-timers under extreme pressure. The FSO's can give you unbiased advice.

I haven't heard of anyone actually being refused an OAP, willing to be corrected.

Be aware if you declare you have a Thai wife, Centrelink will very kindly award you a couple's pension - less than the single rate. However, as your Thai wife isn't an Australian citizen, she gets nothing. Isn't bureaucracy wonderful?

[Cypress Hill]

If self funded pensions OK.

Not jealousy from me, but a degree of disgust.

I worked 43 years, never drew a cent from the government, provided for myself, and am a self funded retiree. I live in Australia, mostly, so continue to pay GST, and other federal and state indirect taxes.

Somebody who paid a lot less tax than I did, and continue to do, receives an aged pension, and then leaves the country, contributing nothing further. I think if a recipient is not living in the country that pays his state funded pension, it should be reduced by what tax that pension may attract if the recipient was living in his home country...... start at about 25%, but possibly more.

Paying income tax is not the same as paying into a private superannuation fund.

What do you think about immigrants getting handouts that never paid anything into the coffers. Retirees paid all their working life via taxes to enable countries to TAKE IN immigrants.......Your thoughts...?

What does immigration to the UK have to do with this topic?

Coming from a Brit immigrant in Thailand, this is rich

[jjJJ1133]

Doesn't really matter what you post - you'll always have that one (or more) types that will always respond negatively because that's just who they are and what they do.

[louse1953]

I think it's a part of the trend amongst younger Brits at least to be resentful of older generations and anyone having a pension is one of those things that is riled against. There is in fact some basis for that resentment in the UK since a series of changes by government have resulted in younger generations today having a poorer deal than many of their predecessors and older generations, mostly to the benefit of the older generations. Cases in point include: university fees, availability and cost of housing, state pension age, etc. I suppose it's not so much that it's a poorer deal, simply it's a different one that results from the austerity program and from prior poor fiscal management by governments past.

I don't think this is relevant at all. Anybody living here on a UK state pension certainly wouldn't make me jealous - I can't imagine trying to get by on that little. If there is any negativity toward older Westerners living in Thailand on pensions it could be a reaction to their holier-than-thou attitude toward anybody living in the country without a long-term visa.

The UK state pension (according to an earlier post is 106GBP per week). If that's correct then it is only half of the aussie aged pension base rate (which expats receive) of AUD405 per week, viz THB24872 per month as against THB45512. Surviving on that amount of money, even in Thailand is too big an ask. At least the aussie pension is reviewed and increased, even though it's negligible, twice per year. BTW, I've used todays exchange rates for the conversions to baht.

Jeez Tiger,now you've given the Poms another thing to whinge about.

[louse1953]

I am a self funded retiree living in Thailand and have done so for the past 5 years. I have purchased a house in Bangkok which I share with my Thai wife of 8 years and enjoy my current lifestyle. I don't consider myself as wealthy but comfortable something I could not have done in my home country Australia. I have been able to do this due to my private contributions to superannuation. The only negative thing for me is that when I'm eligible for the Old Age Pension I will have to return to Australia for 2 years prior to my 66th birthday and then am not guaranteed that I will be approved for the OAP. I have many friends in Australia who may not be jealous but are envious of me. Should anyone be able to provide information as to how to receive the OAP without returning to Australia your comments would be appreciated.

When your pension is due mate,they have to give it to you because the only criteria is age.Then the fun starts on how much they are gunna give you.Sort your affairs out well before that visit to SS,they are merciless,i have been told.If your pension is due when you turn 66,why not go then and get the pension straight away,then sit your 2 years out.

[louse1953]

@robertthebruce I already live in Thailand and my wife and I built a home in the northern region. I am not near a pension age so we are living off other investments. I was just curious why I had read many negative responses about "pensioners" in Thailand. But I am with you, I think if anyone can pull it off they should go live it and it shouldn't be viewed in a negative light.

The biggest mistake people make is pulling the pin early on work and living on investments,These could easily disappear in an emergency.I would rather work on in my 50's,than be broke in my 60's with no job prospects.

some people make the mistake planning to work till they are in their 60s but are carried to the graveyard in their 50s.

i retired with 46 and was diagnosed with liver cancer 2 years later. my thoughts were "it's really shitty to die with 48 but nobody can take these 2 years from me." the fact that the diagnosis was wrong doesn't change my view.

For some but not many,i can't predict my health but i am responsible for my financial well being.

[louse1953]

Cypress Hill

For every pensioner quietly going about his business, not demanding preferential treatment, enjoying his life on a nice, comfortable pension he paid into over a lifetime of hard graft, there's 20 more hanging on by the skin of their teeth financially - subsisting on food hall noodles and a happy hour Leo.

Those 20 tend to be the most vociferous and those are the ones I take the mick out of.

bull's eye!

Who's mick??

Mick

Screen Shot 2015-10-12 at 7.36.13 PM.png

Betcha he's not grumpy.

[connda]

I live a very simple life. No fancy 'toys'. I don't need a lot of stuff to be happy. And I actually continue to save money from my pension on a monthly basis instead of spending it all.

How many people nowadays save money from their jobs during their peak working years? Hell, most people are in debt to their eyebrows, borrowing to live the good life today. So sad too bad when you hit my age and have nothing a 'debt hole' that your dug yourself.

Try deferring self-gratification and saving for a rainy day. Isn't their an Aesop fable about this?

[bazza40]

Jealousy.

Agree. It's interesting when I go back to Oz, I get snide remarks about Thai chicks and living on a shoestring. The remarks go through to the wicketkeeper.

I sit there thinking you guys are wondering if you are going to outlive your assets in a country which has one of the highest living costs in the Western sphere. You're petrified your wives, mostly fat slugs, are going to drag you off to a lawyer who will bleed you of half of what you've worked for all your life, and you can't do a damn thing about it. Then I reflect on the fact I had the balls to retire to Thailand.

[ableguy]

Why would anyone be negative about a pension? This is a really strange thread

If it's not big enough. Maybe ?

[JAFO]

I would imagine that for a pensioner w/sufficient, but not large funds, there are a lot of temptations and indulgences, in their face, but out of their price range. I guess that can make them grumpy and give them time to complain.

Makes you wonder if there is an income correlation to the negative posters…

That's an interesting point.

It's especially a thing in a party town filled with "two week millionaires" like Pattaya.

When I first moved here I had the background of being such a party animal tourist over many years in Thailand.

I knew I had no choice but make a major adjustment in living from that in order to make it here long term.

I don't think that adjustment in attitude is quick or easy for many people. I think it took me some years actually.

Some people can't make the adjustment and burn out here in dramatic ways we see in the news all the time and I guess some people get grumpy online, or whatever it takes to cope.

Oh well!

To your point Jingthing, as a minor contributor to TV but a long time previous guest I have read hundreds and hundreds posts over that time. I first started reading TV back in 2005 IIRC when I was an expat working in Thailand for a US company, Actually was here in 2004 and have been here since (except for a few gaps). Lots of Foreigners have come and gone. I can easily see why its easy to land here and become mesmerized by it all. I will not deny my first 3 months were quite eye opening(Shortly after was the big Coup in 2005). I was very quick in discarding my rose colored glasses as I was not here for woman and booze. I think the advantage I had was being employed. The "Holiday" guy that thinks after a few 2 week visits he can live a life of paradise is going to likely get a painful wake up call(hence why the westerner suicide rate is very high in Pattaya and Phuket). Yes living in Thailand can be done for less, yes the women have this drug like effect on a majority of men(seems the older they are the more susceptible they become). Not to many young guys getting played by the bar girls albeit it does happen. It also seems like the guys that encounter issues with the police or immigration are probably the same ones who had issues like this in their home country. In all my years here I have never encountered 1 issue in either case.

I have also found that a great number of the long time posters have become grumpy and bitter. I would suspect its because being an active member of a forum and high post counts they have likely seen and read it all and are probably tired of it but for some reason are driven to continue to post. The newer posters that harp on the "Pensioners" are probably some what envious. I suppose I would likely be if I was here for a short time and was still at work and saw older guys kicking back. I say to them "Hang in there, you will have your chance, just later on". In fact I am still telling myself that as I am a long way off from being able to call myself a "pensioner". I am here with my wife with earlier investments that have afforded me the luxury.

Thailand isn't for everyone. To make it work you need to either be employed or have it set up where you will not be influenced by what happens while you are living here. Living up in Northern Thailand is easy quite honestly. I am not in the daily hustle of BKK, I never see the relentless nonsense that happens in Pattaya, Phuket etc. I am not hassled by police, in fact I seldom see them. I just go about life, work around the yard, ride my motorcycle or bike, fish, go to the market, meet people etc. Its rather nice and very comfortable. Its probably why I do not post anything negative on the TV.

The only unfortunate part for my wife and I right now is we are back in the states but not for too much longer. We miss our home and the food and want to go home.

[Cypress Hill]

If self funded pensions OK.

Not jealousy from me, but a degree of disgust.

I worked 43 years, never drew a cent from the government, provided for myself, and am a self funded retiree. I live in Australia, mostly, so continue to pay GST, and other federal and state indirect taxes.

Somebody who paid a lot less tax than I did, and continue to do, receives an aged pension, and then leaves the country, contributing nothing further. I think if a recipient is not living in the country that pays his state funded pension, it should be reduced by what tax that pension may attract if the recipient was living in his home country...... start at about 25%, but possibly more.

Paying income tax is not the same as paying into a private superannuation fund.

What do you think about immigrants getting handouts that never paid anything into the coffers. Retirees paid all their working life via taxes to enable countries to TAKE IN immigrants.......Your thoughts...?

What does immigration to the UK have to do with this topic?

Coming from a Brit immigrant in Thailand, this is rich

I am not an immigrant in LOS.....

Just because the visa/extension in your passport says "non-immigrant" doesn't mean you're not an immigrant.

[billd766]

If self funded pensions OK.

Not jealousy from me, but a degree of disgust.

I worked 43 years, never drew a cent from the government, provided for myself, and am a self funded retiree. I live in Australia, mostly, so continue to pay GST, and other federal and state indirect taxes.

Somebody who paid a lot less tax than I did, and continue to do, receives an aged pension, and then leaves the country, contributing nothing further. I think if a recipient is not living in the country that pays his state funded pension, it should be reduced by what tax that pension may attract if the recipient was living in his home country...... start at about 25%, but possibly more.

Paying income tax is not the same as paying into a private superannuation fund.

What do you think about immigrants getting handouts that never paid anything into the coffers. Retirees paid all their working life via taxes to enable countries to TAKE IN immigrants.......Your thoughts...?

Some of us were so stupid that we earned another pension or 2 and as a result of our prudence and forethought not only managed to end up with frozen pensions but have to pay income tax on the total sum of ALL our pensions.

I started paying income from my first job in 1959 at age 15 and now at 71 I am STILL paying income tax to the UK though I live in Thailand and I have no choice about paying it.

[billd766]

The only negative feelings that I have here are based around the fact that we, as farangs, have absolutely no rights at all here, a fact that considerably undermines one,s peace of mind. Totally legitimate tourists are sometimes given extreme hassles at immigration, you can be attacked by a thai and have no recourse whatsoever, since there is an extremely high chance that any policeman will take the side of the thai who attacked you ! Whether you know it or not, you are looked on as prey to any thai person wishing to take what you have worked for. On first arrival things do indeed look rosy, but stay here long enough and you will encounter the darker side of this lovely country

How long does it take to encounter the darker side of this country. I have only been living here 14 years and I haven't it, but then again it could be that I don't live or go to the places you seem to have found.

Edited October 12, 2015 by billd766

[Ghostnigel]

@robertthebruce I already live in Thailand and my wife and I built a home in the northern region. I am not near a pension age so we are living off other investments. I was just curious why I had read many negative responses about "pensioners" in Thailand. But I am with you, I think if anyone can pull it off they should go live it and it shouldn't be viewed in a negative light.

and i am just curious where you read these negative comments. i'm an active member of TV since nine years and can't recall a single one.

You are joking surely...

[Just1Voice]

For me the "bottom line" is that Thailand is not for everyone. I've been coming here since '68 and I've seen the many, many changes this country has gone through. I have a baht 6 figure income monthly, and that allows me to live a nice, very comfortable life, with the things I, my wife, and my son need. We don't try to live extravagantly, but we live well, a large part due to me keeping the books and being diligent about it. I've seen guys with less income than me who are extremely happy. And I've seen guys with more income than me who are miserable all the time. To me, whatever your income is, you, and you alone, have to decide what you can have, and what it takes to live here. And then you have to stick to that, with minor adjustments from time to time. If you can't do that, then you're living in the wrong place.

[pgrahmm]

I think a large part of it is looking with young eyes from the Pattaya-eaque"experience" - they want to keep living that way but can't - they have to go back and work for another 20-35 years to be able to POSSIBLY THINK about doing what they see going on around them while they are here.....

They don't want to think or give credit to the years worked by those that have EARNED their right to be here (or anywhere they choose).....

They see young what they want to have - but most cannot so the jealousy.....For a lot of the younger set life is a party non stop and, after seeing it here they don't want to wait......

For me - I stumbled into/onto Thailand by chance - came here on a holiday with some Thais I knew from the US.....Didn't even know enough to know Pattaya existed - and really still have never bothered to spend time there.....Having a 24 hour party available has not been important to me since my 20's & women were always available either here or there....

But - I can see the jealous angle.....Most younger folks simply do not have the promise of a better life as their years go by....Neither can they see their children doing any better in spite of their best efforts.... After awhile - without an optimistic outlook bitterness takes root.....

Let's face it - lives don't go as planned.....When it looks bleak or unpromising it's easy to be stuck in place jealous of what they see that others have achieved that they cannot; or are unwilling to wait/work to get......"Haves" versus have nots....

I have 3 income streams - personal - government & company pensions.....I worked many years to get them and was able to retire early......Most of the upcoming generation do not have the promise of that....At best they get exposed to a limited time here then grouse about those that are doing what they wish to do......

Some people - no matter what age - would rather bitch than count their blessings......

Oddly - the only place I run into them is here......

[thehelmsman]

If self funded pensions OK.

Not jealousy from me, but a degree of disgust.

I worked 43 years, never drew a cent from the government, provided for myself, and am a self funded retiree. I live in Australia, mostly, so continue to pay GST, and other federal and state indirect taxes.

Somebody who paid a lot less tax than I did, and continue to do, receives an aged pension, and then leaves the country, contributing nothing further. I think if a recipient is not living in the country that pays his state funded pension, it should be reduced by what tax that pension may attract if the recipient was living in his home country...... start at about 25%, but possibly more.

Paying income tax is not the same as paying into a private superannuation fund.

What do you think about immigrants getting handouts that never paid anything into the coffers. Retirees paid all their working life via taxes to enable countries to TAKE IN immigrants.......Your thoughts...?

What does immigration to the UK have to do with this topic?

Coming from a Brit immigrant in Thailand, this is rich

I'd have to chime in and state that I doubt most farang don't consider themselves immigrants to Thailand, Me, I'm only an immigrant to the USA.

I'll be getting my work pension first in 3 yrs. till the SS and a little bonus because of my baby girl,kicks in and I'll take the Social Security $$ asap. I worked for 45 yrs paying into it and I'll be getting mine.

,Next comes the rent money, TSP and decent savings. Until then I'll continue to make a nice check offshore, living a nice life in Thailand with my family.