Help - strongest OTC sleeping aid?

[ryanhull]

Hi All,

I have posted simular posts before about this in the past...

I have insomnia and have been on clonazepam and xanax prescribed by the doctor for some time, I have got to the point with clonazepam it was no longer affecting me, even up to 3mg I would take and still be wide awake, I know my body has built up a tolerance to it.

I have tried to taper myself down off it and now I have run out ofit, I hate the stuff it controls my life at the moment in regards to sleep. I understand coming off it cold turkey is dangerous and my doctor is getting more reluctant to give me anymore which is kind of a good thing. I have been to various physiatrists to discus why I cannot sleep and different things I could try out, nothing has worked.

My question is, what is the strongest OTC sleep aid, is amitriptyline an OTC drug? I asssume atarax is?

been up 48 hours straight now and still wide awake, I know its due to coming off the clonazepam, and I could easily go to the docs tomorow and get more but I do not want to take that drug anymore and really I would need atleast 4mg doses to affect me now which is a crazy amount, it also affects my mood etc. Really I want to keep away from benzo`s and am simply wanting to know what is the strongest OTC drug I can try?

I know people will suggesy yoga, reading with dim lights etc which is appreciated but I have been through it with various physiatrists and nothing works so far except the evil benzo`s. I feel if i take something non addictive OTC untill the benzo`s are out of my system I may then be able to sleep without any drugs.

So anyone know what is the strongest OTC sleep aid for someone with insomnia?

Cheers all

[simonuk]

If you lived in a country with modern drug laws then a little weed in a vaporiser may do the trick....but if you're in Thailand. ..I wouldn't trust anyone with a request.

[h90]

If you lived in a country with modern drug laws then a little weed in a vaporiser may do the trick....but if you're in Thailand. ..I wouldn't trust anyone with a request.

Modern? I would say with an conservative drug law....It was banned recently by western influence...For example in North Korea it is still allowed.

[jgriff]

I too was struggling with overuse of bad sleeping meds. I had been using them for years and at a point I needed to get off.

A boss of mine told me about Jody Whiteley. She has an app on itunes as well as video's on youtube. She does Sleep Hypnosis. I use the one on the iPhone link below. You can find it also on youtube. It is called Sleep Hypnosis for Depression Anxiety and sleep disorders. You use it while trying to go to sleep or during the day to help settle the mind. I use it with headphones on and I took me out of the my sleep disorder within a week. No more pills required. I fall asleep with the headphones on and sleep for a solid 7 hrs. My psychiatrist is amased with this app and has recommended some of his other patients to use it.

Give it a try

[PocoLoco]

Your GABA receptors are desensitized to a very high dose of clonazepam, the only thing to do now is to taper off (very) slowly. Do NOT go cold turkey, you can die doing so.

You need to find a psychiatrist who is well educated on benzodiazepine withdrawal and the accompanying syndrome. Otherwise you need to educate yourself as soon as possible on benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome. Professor Ashton's work is regarded as the gold standard to withdraw from psychiatric drugs. You should read the manual on http://www.benzo.org.uk/

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

A great community with loads of info can be found at www.benzobuddies.org

Tapering off 3mg without going into acute withdrawal shock will take at least 12 months and then that's quite rapid.

Tapering down from clonazepam is not easy because of its half-life. Most people switch over to diazepam and then gradually taper down over a period of 1 to 2 years.
3mg clonazepam is equal to 60mg diazepam... quite an insane amount isn't it?

OTC drugs will NOT work at this point, as i mentioned before your GABA-glutamate receptors are out of whack and need to find homeostasis.

You have been poisoned by an incompetent doctor, now take matters in your own hands and deal with it.

Good luck.

[Sheryl]

Agree that this needs to be managed in the context of benzo withdrawal. Don't try to self medicate, you will only muddy up an already difficult situation.

This is the best doctor in Thailand for addiction disorders: https://www.bumrungrad.com/doctors/Pichai-Saengcharnchai

[uksomchai]

6 large bottles of Chang will; do the trick

[ryanhull]

Cheers all, doc wont give me anymore clonazepam, infact they seem to get annoyed now when they see me walk in, look at me like a druggy which I understand in some ways...

Anyway im going cold turkey on that and can feel its wraith already, I have done it before successfully so hopefully wont die.

Can anyone answer the following:

what is the strongest OTC sleep aid, is amitriptyline an OTC drug? I asssume atarax is?

Cheers

[PocoLoco]

Suit yourself.

Good luck with the protracted withdrawal and the hell you wil go through the next 3 years. I'm speaking from experience.

[Sheryl]

Cheers all, doc wont give me anymore clonazepam, infact they seem to get annoyed now when they see me walk in, look at me like a druggy which I understand in some ways...

Anyway im going cold turkey on that and can feel its wraith already, I have done it before successfully so hopefully wont die.

Can anyone answer the following:

what is the strongest OTC sleep aid, is amitriptyline an OTC drug? I asssume atarax is?

Cheers

Yes, atarax is OTC.

But I really, really urge you to avail of expertise in this area and allow a physician specializing in addiction disorders to help you with this. Trying to do this yourself (1) may lead to physical harm and (2) is likely to fail with the result that you'll not only still be addicted but also convinced you can't beat it.

Dr. Pichai has helped a great many farangs with problems just like yours. As an addiction specialist he will not pass judgement or look at your askance. He will know how to guide you successfully off the benzos and how to treat/mitigate the discomforts and problems that inevitably arise along the way.

[ryanhull]

Suit yourself.

Good luck with the protracted withdrawal and the hell you wil go through the next 3 years. I'm speaking from experience.

Thanks.. I didnt mean to sound rude or blunt by the way, I have been through the cold turkey before and I know its hellish it is... can I ask, how long was you on it for to get withdrawls for 3 years?

Yes, atarax is OTC.

But I really, really urge you to avail of expertise in this area and allow a physician specializing in addiction disorders to help you with this. Trying to do this yourself (1) may lead to physical harm and (2) is likely to fail with the result that you'll not only still be addicted but also convinced you can't beat it.

Dr. Pichai has helped a great many farangs with problems just like yours. As an addiction specialist he will not pass judgement or look at your askance. He will know how to guide you successfully off the benzos and how to treat/mitigate the discomforts and problems that inevitably arise along the way.

Thanks Sheryl appreciated, the problem is I am NE thailand, I thank you for your advise and will try to seek another hospital who maybe has slightly better docs in this field, I will go tomorow as it is too late now I assume.

Thanks again

[ryanhull]

Quick update:

I have been and got two types of meds one Diphenhydramine 50mg brand name Codiphen, and Hydroxyzine brand Atarax 25mg....

I went to two different pharmacies and both said conflicting things, one said Diphenhydramine would be a better sleep aid considering my condition another said Hydroxyzine,

Reading up on the two it seems Codiphen would be stronger although 50mg seems a high dose so I will break it in two. Hopefully I will get a good nights kip tonight as I really could with it,

Both of these are OTC drugs, anyone know the differences in strenght with these two or have any experience with either pls let me know,

Cheers

[DogNo1]

Be aware that diphenylhydramine and hydorxyzine have differing effects on different individuals. I can't take diphenylhydramine at all since I have a negative reaction to it. Atarax puts me out OK but has a long-lasting side-effect so that I don't function well the following day. I suggest that tapering off benzos might be the best practice. If your usual doctors won't prescribe any more, find a new doctor. Self-dosing may lead to unwanted results. It's best to be tapered off benzos by a knowledgeable doctor. There are many kinds of benzos and you could be switched between them for tapering purposes. There are many OTC sleeping remedies that contain GABA, melatonin, etc. but they can't replace your benzos right away. Withdrawal from benzos is a long process and not as easy as you might think. Good luck

[inbangkok]

You can buy Orphenadrine Citrate OTC. It is a muscle relaxant, not a sleeping aid. However, makes most people quite tired. It is usually mixed with paracetamol under the name "Norgesic". Definitely not for every night use but I see no reason it is any worse than an actual sleeping aid if used once in a while. Makes me just as sleepy as even a small dose of a Clonopin, Valium, Etc. However, I honestly do not know what addiction potential there is with this medicine. So maybe ask a Dr.

Edited October 21, 2015 by inbangkok

[ryanhull]

Thanks guys for the tips..

I tried both the Diphenhydramine and the Hydroxyzine, both made me tired but due to my withdrawls from the clonazepam I was still wide awake albeit very groggy... physically tired but mentally no chance. I managed to get 3 very odd hours of sleep last night and had some crazy dreams at one point sitting up and shouting.

I woke up this morning feeling like death, I knew it was the withdrawls really hitting in, I had sweats, very on edge feelings of fear of nothing, short temper for no reason, headaches, all kinds of wierd feelings.

So I went off to a different hospital in Roi-et where my son was born and saw a good doctor, I paid for a full 5000 bhat body check which included blood tests for various things, chest scans, pee test etc. Really half it was not needed but I just thought I would anyway for peace of mind. Luckily all results came back good, even my lungs are in good nick which is suprising considering I have been a heavy smoker since 15. All in all the whole process took 3 hours which wasnt bad considering. I had informed the doctor of my insomnia issue and the fact I have become addicted to clonazepam and am suffering big withdrawls from it, we both agreed that I have to taper off this very slowly and despite me attempting to taper myself off it quickly/cold turkeying really it was dangerous..

I have been placed on/prescribed 2mg of clonazepam per evening for 1 month, then 1.5mg for a further month, then 1mg for the 3rd month..... after this 3rd month I have a meeting with the doctor to discus lowering to a potential 0.5mg for a 4th month or atleast discussing how I am feeling then.

Seems pretty mental to now go back to fully blown 2mg a day but given the state I was in I am following his advice and he has drawn me out a strict taper process,I have also read about it on the net.

During the three months I am to give him a call if I feeling unwell or this is not going to plan.

I am trusting his judgement as he seemed to know alot about benzo`s in general, we both agreed it was rather silly of my original doctor to place me on any benzo in the first place but what is done is done. I have taken my dose for today and feel 'normal' again and can tell I will sleep like a baby very shortly. He seems like a very respectable doctor and listened to me in detail which I found my other doctors didnt and more wanted to give me a 4-5 days worth of the drug and come back to seek alternatives. I feel if I follow his process I will be down to 0.5mg a day which will be a good start in getting off this horrible drug and back to normal un-aided sleep, I do have anxiety issues mainly due to work, I started to bit my hands in my sleep which really was a strange one but due to anxiety.

Eventually after the 5th month I hope to be on 0.2 or nothing per day. The doctor explained more in detail than I could find on the web why this would be a slow process and could take up to 6 months but atleast my life will be back to normal in regards to sleep, eating, excersize etc. I understand after the possible 6th month I maye still have small withdrawls but hopefully more managable or something else will be in place to help me deal with my long term insomnia/anxiety.

All in all, to anyone suffering from sleep issues and considering any kind of benzo, take it from me do not do it. It will help you sleep, but when you stop taking it your sleep issue will be x 5 as bad nevermind if you suffer from anxiety.

It has been a terrible time I have gone through, partly through my own fault and doctors giving me the wrong meds/advise from the get go. I am some what pleased with my full body check up coming back good and the fact I have a solid plan in place to deal with this backed by a good doctor.

I sincerely appreciate all the advise from you all, and I would say a number of the drugs mentioned above would work for sleep aids yet not when you combine it with benzo withdrawls, really they just make you feel even worse.

I will let you know how it goes as I go on should anyone be interested.

Cheers

[Lozza]

Melatonin definitely works but I'm not sure if they sell it here 10 mg 30 mins before bed and I get 7 hrs sleep and don't feel hungover like I did with Atarax. You can buy it online as a soluble tablet in a few flavours try i-herbs.com. Before that I was taking 100 mg Amytriptyline with 50 mg Atarax it worked but I just got fed up taking pills and was pointed to the Melatonin a strawberry treat instead of bland pills at night. I'm hooked.

[PocoLoco]

I'm glad to hear you've come to your senses. You are on the right way now and i hope you will make a speedy recovery.

I still recommend you to read the Ashton manual because it will tell you much more about benzodiazepine withdrawal than your psychiatrist can ever do.

Edited October 22, 2015 by PocoLoco

[WonnabeBiker]

Melatonin definitely works but I'm not sure if they sell it here 10 mg 30 mins before bed and I get 7 hrs sleep and don't feel hungover like I did with Atarax. You can buy it online as a soluble tablet in a few flavours try i-herbs.com. Before that I was taking 100 mg Amytriptyline with 50 mg Atarax it worked but I just got fed up taking pills and was pointed to the Melatonin a strawberry treat instead of bland pills at night. I'm hooked.

Melatonin gives me a slight headache and somehow causes a dull feeling. But I haven't found the right dosis yet.

Never dared to try 10 mg!

A Dr. Berg with a Youtube channel speaks of 5 pressure points to relieve stress. Didn't buy the tool on Amazon, but tried to find the points and press them. You might try that in addition to everything else? STRESS is likely another factor...