Looking for cheap food east of the old city

[popje]

When we first arrived we found the best strategy for ordering food at Thai places when we couldn't read the menu was to walk around and see what everyone was eating and if something looked good, to point it out to the waitress/owner and tell them that's what we wanted. Often, a customer would take pity and order for us, or -- better yet -- teach us the name of the dish in Thai.

As I said in a previous post, you really do need to learn some elementary Thai. Not just speaking, but also had to read Thai, as in how to read a menu, utility bills, common signs, etc.

That is a good idea thanks and yeah I am only in thailand for another 2-3 months I am not sure learning thai right now is the best idea, not that it can be a bad one either but yeah I'll try to at least learn the dishes I want to try.

Come and look over the menu a The Pun Pun.

East bank of the river on Charoenrat Rd. Looking at the menu is cost free......very economical.... both Thai and Western Dishes. Large portion Thai meals in the range of 80 baht...... to the most expensive of western foods, the Pork Knuckle Dinner at 285.... other western foods cheaper..... like chicken fried steak dinner/ Meatloaf Dinner/ Liver,Bacon, Onions plus

That sounds good I'll give it a try thanks

The OP's location is indeed a bit of a void, but you can find some interesting and afforable options slightly to the East or slightly to the West.

To the East, just after crossing the Superhighway is this cluster of restaurants that are interesting; mostly Thai food: https://goo.gl/zqq5uT

Or, if you take a left turn once on the Sankamphaeng Road then you get to loads of food options in the general Payap area, including a cheap Western food option that I can't find right now on Google maps. EDIT: ah, here. Bit further than I though it would be, but it's an interesting place: https://goo.gl/yVzVNE

It's called Bee Hiang apparantly. Lots more food options nearby too, catering to the Payap crowd which makes them all affordable.

Or, when going towards town then you have a lot of options in the Riverside / Sanpakhoi area, even before crossing the river:

* Success Italian

* Mamia Coffee & Food on the river

* Namton's House Bar (closed Wednesdays)

* Several Thai places, the one at the Big Tree three way interesection at Gymkhana is worth a mention (Khao Soi and made to order Thai food)

* The Vietnamese inspired place near Duke's

Thanks a lot, I am making a map of a bunch of restaurants you guys proposed me, I'll just go ahead and visit every single one in a day and take pictures of all the menus, I'll post it here in case anyone else might be interested

[popje]

Oh no, I tried a good whole bunch of thai dishes and I've been in thailand for 3 months now (I was in koh samui before), but khao soi is the first one I actually know the thai name and managed to get in a thai only restaurant, I can google a few dishes but I don't think every restaurant have every dishes and I am kinda sick of eating curry, rice and sweet dishes

Make your own menu!

From the internet, find out which dishes sound interesting, write down both the English and Thai name, then when you see a group of food vendors you show them your menu and either ask “mii arai” (literal translation: have what?) or point to what you want (on your menu), and if the street vendor does not have it, he’ll likely point you to one that does (which is why you want to do the latter in an area with multiple stalls).

You mention curry, rice and “sweet dishes”. Have you tried any of their salads (yam bpla duk foo, som tam/dtam thai, larb, yam wunseen taley)? Any of their soups (dtom ka gai, dtom yam gung, gang som cha’om taut)? Any of their noodle dishes (pad see ew, rat na, khanom jiin, guai dtiao)? Any of their omelettes (kai jeow nam)? etc.

I find a thai restaurant with english speaking people and menu and they expect me to pay 120 baht for a pad thai.

Yes, they expect you to pay 120 baht for a dish because it is more expensive to run a real restaurant with rent (presumably in a tourist area), English speaking staff, and possibly air condition, than it is to sell food on the street!

And you’re even expected to leave a 20 baht tip in a restaurant!

Yeah, thats what I'll do for thai restaurants, I'll make a big list of all the thai dishes that look good and ask for them in thai restaurants it shouldnt be that hard to find. When I was in koh samui there was a thai restaurant with a english/thai menu with over 30 dishes, I think I tried pretty much every single one of them except maybe for the salads and seafood dishes (I am intolerant to seafood), unfortunately, I don't remember any of the thai names, I should have wrote them down, I didn't realize koh samui is very touristic and everything is pretty much in english, meanwhile in chiang mai, its a different story.

I realize english thai restaurants charge more but its pretty much the point of this thread, I don't need a nice restaurant with AC and english speaking staff as I always take away my food, not that I don't like to be in a restaurant but unless I am out with friends I don't feel like eating alone in a restaurant, so taking away 500 baht of food in a nice restaurant only to go eat back home sounds dumb to me and I know there are cheaper ways to find food just as good if not more authentic/better I just need to find out where and how which is why I made this thread.

[Lizard2010]

When we first arrived we found the best strategy for ordering food at Thai places when we couldn't read the menu was to walk around and see what everyone was eating and if something looked good, to point it out to the waitress/owner and tell them that's what we wanted. Often, a customer would take pity and order for us, or -- better yet -- teach us the name of the dish in Thai.

As I said in a previous post, you really do need to learn some elementary Thai. Not just speaking, but also had to read Thai, as in how to read a menu, utility bills, common signs, etc.

This is good advice for finding what to eat. You may not like it, but if you don't try you won't know.

NancyL, you might explain "point it out to the waitress/owner" in a little more detail for the OP. It is considered rude to point at people (and things in some cases), and may even bring bad luck in Thai traditions.

I dont think NancyL was realy POINTING It out to the Owner Waiter

It was a figure of speech

I would say can i have that one politly

We all cant be perfect in our way of trying to explain to someone

just my thoughts on the matter

[popje]

When we first arrived we found the best strategy for ordering food at Thai places when we couldn't read the menu was to walk around and see what everyone was eating and if something looked good, to point it out to the waitress/owner and tell them that's what we wanted. Often, a customer would take pity and order for us, or -- better yet -- teach us the name of the dish in Thai.

As I said in a previous post, you really do need to learn some elementary Thai. Not just speaking, but also had to read Thai, as in how to read a menu, utility bills, common signs, etc.

This is good advice for finding what to eat. You may not like it, but if you don't try you won't know.

NancyL, you might explain "point it out to the waitress/owner" in a little more detail for the OP. It is considered rude to point at people (and things in some cases), and may even bring bad luck in Thai traditions.

I dont think NancyL was realy POINTING It out to the Owner Waiter

It was a figure of speech

I would say can i have that one politly

We all cant be perfect in our way of trying to explain to someone

just my thoughts on the matter

I kinda knew pointing at people is rude to thais as well as in many other cultures but at objects ? I had no idea, I guess I could show the waiter the plate with one or both hands like this: http://www.quickmeme.com/img/aa/aaa4e0fe18c758a3335dcd9d99ee9d770307700dfd69b082c694e1bc04ff6e02.jpg (without that face expression lol)

[hml367]

When we first arrived we found the best strategy for ordering food at Thai places when we couldn't read the menu was to walk around and see what everyone was eating and if something looked good, to point it out to the waitress/owner and tell them that's what we wanted. Often, a customer would take pity and order for us, or -- better yet -- teach us the name of the dish in Thai.

As I said in a previous post, you really do need to learn some elementary Thai. Not just speaking, but also had to read Thai, as in how to read a menu, utility bills, common signs, etc.

This is good advice for finding what to eat. You may not like it, but if you don't try you won't know.

NancyL, you might explain "point it out to the waitress/owner" in a little more detail for the OP. It is considered rude to point at people (and things in some cases), and may even bring bad luck in Thai traditions.

I dont think NancyL was realy POINTING It out to the Owner Waiter

It was a figure of speech

I would say can i have that one politly

We all cant be perfect in our way of trying to explain to someone

just my thoughts on the matter

I don;t think NancyL meant finger pointing either... which is why I thought an explanation would be good. Apparently the OP already knew.

[popje]

When we first arrived we found the best strategy for ordering food at Thai places when we couldn't read the menu was to walk around and see what everyone was eating and if something looked good, to point it out to the waitress/owner and tell them that's what we wanted. Often, a customer would take pity and order for us, or -- better yet -- teach us the name of the dish in Thai.

As I said in a previous post, you really do need to learn some elementary Thai. Not just speaking, but also had to read Thai, as in how to read a menu, utility bills, common signs, etc.

This is good advice for finding what to eat. You may not like it, but if you don't try you won't know.

NancyL, you might explain "point it out to the waitress/owner" in a little more detail for the OP. It is considered rude to point at people (and things in some cases), and may even bring bad luck in Thai traditions.

I dont think NancyL was realy POINTING It out to the Owner Waiter

It was a figure of speech

I would say can i have that one politly

We all cant be perfect in our way of trying to explain to someone

just my thoughts on the matter

I don;t think NancyL meant finger pointing either... which is why I thought an explanation would be good. Apparently the OP already knew.

I knew pointing at people is rude, it is kinda rude where I come, maybe not as bad here but I got the habit of never doing it, I had no idea pointing at objects could be wrong though, but at the same time putting your foot on a rolling 10 baht is wrong here so who knows what is and isn't. Anyway, I'll find a way to show the waiter what I want without being rude but at the same time, walking through the restaurant starting at what people eat might looks rude lol, but as long as I don't look like some lost mental hospital patient I think I'll be fine.

[wooloomooloo]

You're a difficult customer, popje.

Have you considered going to Makro and just purchasing some decent beef, chicken, lamb and a few other bits and bobs and cooking it yourself.

Two pages of replies and no further on.

You're not going to find what you're looking for in CM on your budget unless you DIY.

[popje]

You're a difficult customer, popje.

Have you considered going to Makro and just purchasing some decent beef, chicken, lamb and a few other bits and bobs and cooking it yourself.

Two pages of replies and no further on.

You're not going to find what you're looking for in CM on your budget unless you DIY.

Why do you say I am difficult, I just asked a question and people swarmed here to answer me and I am really glad, I really like this forum so far. I do make some groceries once in a while but I don't cook myself, even though I love to and know how to, here 2 reasons why I don't cook myself, first I am not staying in Thailand for more than 2-3 more months and don't want to spend money of spices and utilities I won't be able to carry on with me when I am gone, second reason is that if you find the right places, food is basically the same price or maybe 10% more expensive than buying it yourself at groceries like tesco and preparing it yourself, I have no idea why because in my country, restaurants are easily 5 times the price than if you would do it yourself, I can buy a whole chicken on the street, already prepared and cut for me and meanwhile, I'd pay the same price if not more for a fresh whole chicken at tesco, why.. I don't know but I like it.

When you say two pages of replies and no further on what do you mean exactly ? English is not my first language but I guess you mean 2 pages of replies and It doesn't seem like it helped me or something ? If yes, that's far from the truth, people here helped me a ton, I already started making a nice map of all the nice restaurants people told me to try and it will probably take me a whole day to visit them all, I'll even take menu pictures and make a guide with map locations for other people who are interested. Yes my budget is low and I am difficult in a sense that I don't want to eat rice everyday if that's what you meant.

[wooloomooloo]

... second reason is that if you find the right places, food is basically the same price or maybe 10% more expensive than buying it yourself at groceries like tesco and preparing it yourself, I have no idea why because in my country, restaurants are easily 5 times the price than if you would do it yourself, I can buy a whole chicken on the street, already prepared and cut for me and meanwhile, I'd pay the same price if not more for a fresh whole chicken at tesco, why.. I don't know but I like it.

Improvise, my friend. You're highly unlikely to find regular falang food at restaurants within your budget.

Buy a cooked chicken off the street, then off to Makro to purchase fries, some greens and ketchup.

You're all over the place but want to eat your cake and eat it. Very difficult to do with such a restrictive budget.

[sappersrest]

Me thinks the OP comes from Norway and lived under a bridge. So please don't feed it.

[popje]

... second reason is that if you find the right places, food is basically the same price or maybe 10% more expensive than buying it yourself at groceries like tesco and preparing it yourself, I have no idea why because in my country, restaurants are easily 5 times the price than if you would do it yourself, I can buy a whole chicken on the street, already prepared and cut for me and meanwhile, I'd pay the same price if not more for a fresh whole chicken at tesco, why.. I don't know but I like it.

Improvise, my friend. You're highly unlikely to find regular falang food at restaurants within your budget.

Buy a cooked chicken off the street, then off to Makro to purchase fries, some greens and ketchup.

You're all over the place but want to eat your cake and eat it. Very difficult to do with such a restrictive budget.

Don't worry I do, I am not expecting thai people to make me a prosciutto blue cheese with vegemite sandwich for 80 baht, so I make them myself, but I have no oven in my apartment (can't make fries) so I won't be getting one and there a whole lot of things I can't make myself, except for the few things I really crave, I don't mind eating anything, from thai to chinese street food, I made this thread just so people could tell me what I can find in my area, because why not. From what I said in this thread, I don't want to eat my cake, I want to eat ANY cake, as long as its somewhat cheap and not ONLY thai food. I don't mind paying more once in a while, but when I do, it will be on a nice Camembert cheese or steak at a grocery store, not a 1200 baht three course dinner at a restaurant, so yeah, I do make stuff myself, but when I realize I can't make it myself for a decent price, I look at restaurants selling it, as an example, I get a chorizo cheese rice guacamole burritos for 70 baht, even if I wanted to make it myself, it probably would be around the same cost that is if I eat this and only this the whole week, so I'd rather buy it at a restaurant even if its 10% more expensive.

Edited October 20, 2015 by popje

[popje]

Me thinks the OP comes from Norway and lived under a bridge. So please don't feed it.

I am not from norway nor I am a troll, what make you think that ?, I am really interested..

[sappersrest]

Read up on Norwegian fairy tales.

[popje]

Read up on Norwegian fairy tales.

I am going to ignore you from now on as you are the one being the troll.

btw, thanks to everyone who replied to this thread with actual interesting opinions, I really do appreciate it.

Edited October 20, 2015 by popje

[NancyL]

Pointing at objects is OK, as long as it's very evident at you're pointing at an object, not the person eating it. Best to gesture with your entire hand, all fingers outstretched, palm up, simply indicating the item.

[hml367]

Pointing at objects is OK, as long as it's very evident at you're pointing at an object, not the person eating it. Best to gesture with your entire hand, all fingers outstretched, palm up, simply indicating the item.

That is not correct, NancyL.... You should check further about pointing. First of all, the fingers should be pointing downward with the palm up.

In referring to a plate of food someone is eating, pointing at it would be wrong.

Check with some locals that do not cater to foreigners and ask about pointing at lightning.

EDIT: I know you would probably never believe me, NancyL. This is from just one of who knows how many "Do's and Don'ts in Thailand" web sites. I think it better to learn actually from Thais, though. Also, since you have influence with so many foreigners at CEC, I think you should teach the correct things.

Respect of Inanimate Objects:

High levels of etiquette relating to the body also extend to the treatment of everyday objects in Thailand. You should not use your feet or finger to point at anything, not just people. If there is an object in your path you should never step over it. This is seen as very bad etiquette, even more so if the object happens to be a book, money, food or a bag.

Edited October 21, 2015 by hml367

[daoyai]

Pointing at objects is OK, as long as it's very evident at you're pointing at an object, not the person eating it. Best to gesture with your entire hand, all fingers outstretched, palm up, simply indicating the item.

That is not correct, NancyL.... You should check further about pointing. First of all, the fingers should be pointing downward with the palm up.

In referring to a plate of food someone is eating, pointing at it would be wrong.

Check with some locals that do not cater to foreigners and ask about pointing at lightning.

EDIT: I know you would probably never believe me, NancyL. This is from just one of who knows how many "Do's and Don'ts in Thailand" web sites. I think it better to learn actually from Thais, though. Also, since you have influence with so many foreigners at CEC, I think you should teach the correct things.

Respect of Inanimate Objects:

High levels of etiquette relating to the body also extend to the treatment of everyday objects in Thailand. You should not use your feet or finger to point at anything, not just people. If there is an object in your path you should never step over it. This is seen as very bad etiquette, even more so if the object happens to be a book, money, food or a bag.

I think the old superstitions are fading fast, I often buy from "khao gang" take aways places and often see the "locals" point at food and say "ow ani" ... or point and ask "bpen arai?" pretty common.

[WorkingTourist]

Respect of Inanimate Objects:

High levels of etiquette relating to the body also extend to the treatment of everyday objects in Thailand. You should not use your feet or finger to point at anything, not just people. If there is an object in your path you should never step over it. This is seen as very bad etiquette, even more so if the object happens to be a book, money, food or a bag.

I think the old superstitions are fading fast, I often buy from "khao gang" take aways places and often see the "locals" point at food and say "ow ani" ... or point and ask "bpen arai?" pretty common.

And/or people like to aggregate every single eccentricity ever observed in the entire Kingdom of Thailand and make that out to be the general rules.

For the above, some of it is right, like you don’t use your food because it’s considered dirty, so pointing with your food is impolite, stepping on money that bears the face of the King is sacrilegious (because of the position of the King), pointing at people you do not know is just impolite, as is also the case in most western cultures.

But pointing at food in a restaurant? Most should be able to do that without insulting anyone. I.e. sit at the neighbouring table, point repeatedly to other people’s food and talk and laugh in your own language, and yes, that is a “don’t” — but being a tourist, going to the waiter, and indicating you want the same as somebody else, no-one would raise an eyebrow.

[kanook]

There are quite a few inexpensive restaurants with good food in your area. My wife works near the park on the corner of Tung Hotel Rd and Charoen Muang Rd so I do meet her for lunch often and she and her coworkers either eat out at lunch or get takeout every day. Many of her coworkers live in this area as well, so I will ask them for places open in the evening. All of the places I have eaten at are priced in the 30 - 50฿ range. No need to hike all the way over to the old city to pay more for takeout when you are living in a Thai area. I don't know the names (just know how to get there) but I will send you a private message when I talk to my wife later this evening. The recommendation for Pho Anh is a good one, best Vietnamese restaurant outside of Vietnam that I have eaten at, but it is more expensive than a local Thai place.

[popje]

There are quite a few inexpensive restaurants with good food in your area. My wife works near the park on the corner of Tung Hotel Rd and Charoen Muang Rd so I do meet her for lunch often and she and her coworkers either eat out at lunch or get takeout every day. Many of her coworkers live in this area as well, so I will ask them for places open in the evening. All of the places I have eaten at are priced in the 30 - 50฿ range. No need to hike all the way over to the old city to pay more for takeout when you are living in a Thai area. I don't know the names (just know how to get there) but I will send you a private message when I talk to my wife later this evening. The recommendation for Pho Anh is a good one, best Vietnamese restaurant outside of Vietnam that I have eaten at, but it is more expensive than a local Thai place.

Yeah Pho Anh is the best suggestion imo so far, I can't wait to eat a pho soup. I am looking foward your PM, thanks !

[Gonzo the Face]

Pointing at objects is OK, as long as it's very evident at you're pointing at an object, not the person eating it. Best to gesture with your entire hand, all fingers outstretched, palm up, simply indicating the item.

That is not correct, NancyL.... You should check further about pointing. First of all, the fingers should be pointing downward with the palm up.

In referring to a plate of food someone is eating, pointing at it would be wrong.

Check with some locals that do not cater to foreigners and ask about pointing at lightning.

EDIT: I know you would probably never believe me, NancyL. This is from just one of who knows how many "Do's and Don'ts in Thailand" web sites. I think it better to learn actually from Thais, though. Also, since you have influence with so many foreigners at CEC, I think you should teach the correct things.

Respect of Inanimate Objects:

High levels of etiquette relating to the body also extend to the treatment of everyday objects in Thailand. You should not use your feet or finger to point at anything, not just people. If there is an object in your path you should never step over it. This is seen as very bad etiquette, even more so if the object happens to be a book, money, food or a bag.

Think about it ,,,,palm down, fingers pointing up..... if you are talking about the same hand, that will break about 4 knuckles.??????

Edited October 21, 2015 by Gonzo the Face

[hml367]

Pointing at objects is OK, as long as it's very evident at you're pointing at an object, not the person eating it. Best to gesture with your entire hand, all fingers outstretched, palm up, simply indicating the item.

That is not correct, NancyL.... You should check further about pointing. First of all, the fingers should be pointing downward with the palm up.

In referring to a plate of food someone is eating, pointing at it would be wrong.

Check with some locals that do not cater to foreigners and ask about pointing at lightning.

EDIT: I know you would probably never believe me, NancyL. This is from just one of who knows how many "Do's and Don'ts in Thailand" web sites. I think it better to learn actually from Thais, though. Also, since you have influence with so many foreigners at CEC, I think you should teach the correct things.

Respect of Inanimate Objects:

High levels of etiquette relating to the body also extend to the treatment of everyday objects in Thailand. You should not use your feet or finger to point at anything, not just people. If there is an object in your path you should never step over it. This is seen as very bad etiquette, even more so if the object happens to be a book, money, food or a bag.

Think about it ,,,,palm down, fingers pointing up..... if you are talking about the same hand, that will break about 4 knuckles.??????

I thought I wrote palm up and fingers pointing downward. It's like pointing with the inside if the hand.

[mankondang]

If you find anywhere that delivers a good meal for the 150 you quoted then please let us all know. Thanks

[randyT]

Try 999 restaurant-corner of Moon Muang -Soi 9

Huge menu and good food

[bazza40]

Lift your hand to eye level and shake it horizontally. That's acceptable when trying to attract attention.

[bazza40]

The restaurant at Promenada next to Rimping offers a three course lunch, multiple choice for 120 baht.

There's a restaurant nearly opposite the electricity authority in Lamphun Road which has a mix of falang and Thai dishes, menu in Thai and English, with pictures. Quite cheap.

What I refer to as Muslim Gardens next to the 7/11 in Lamphun Road ( near Riverside condo ) does a good Chicken Biryani for 40 baht.

If you really want to lash out, you can pay about 2500 baht including one glass of wine for lunch at Le Coq D'Or in the same area.

[garryjohns]

The restaurant at Promenada next to Rimping offers a three course lunch, multiple choice for 120 baht.

There's a restaurant nearly opposite the electricity authority in Lamphun Road which has a mix of falang and Thai dishes, menu in Thai and English, with pictures. Quite cheap.

What I refer to as Muslim Gardens next to the 7/11 in Lamphun Road ( near Riverside condo ) does a good Chicken Biryani for 40 baht.

If you really want to lash out, you can pay about 2500 baht including one glass of wine for lunch at Le Coq D'Or in the same area.

OP asked for "cheap food".

Unless you are a Merc driver 2500 baht aint cheap.

[bazza40]

The restaurant at Promenada next to Rimping offers a three course lunch, multiple choice for 120 baht.

There's a restaurant nearly opposite the electricity authority in Lamphun Road which has a mix of falang and Thai dishes, menu in Thai and English, with pictures. Quite cheap.

What I refer to as Muslim Gardens next to the 7/11 in Lamphun Road ( near Riverside condo ) does a good Chicken Biryani for 40 baht.

If you really want to lash out, you can pay about 2500 baht including one glass of wine for lunch at Le Coq D'Or in the same area.

OP asked for "cheap food".

Unless you are a Merc driver 2500 baht aint cheap.

Obviously an ironic comment is lost on you.

Actually, I do drive a Merc; however, it doesn't prevent me from looking for good value food.

[bazza40]

The restaurant at Promenada next to Rimping offers a three course lunch, multiple choice for 120 baht.

There's a restaurant nearly opposite the electricity authority in Lamphun Road which has a mix of falang and Thai dishes, menu in Thai and English, with pictures. Quite cheap.

What I refer to as Muslim Gardens next to the 7/11 in Lamphun Road ( near Riverside condo ) does a good Chicken Biryani for 40 baht.

If you really want to lash out, you can pay about 2500 baht including one glass of wine for lunch at Le Coq D'Or in the same area.

OP asked for "cheap food".

Unless you are a Merc driver 2500 baht aint cheap.

Obviously an ironic comment is lost on you.

Actually, I do drive a Merc; however, it doesn't prevent me from looking for good value food.

[garryjohns]

The restaurant at Promenada next to Rimping offers a three course lunch, multiple choice for 120 baht.

There's a restaurant nearly opposite the electricity authority in Lamphun Road which has a mix of falang and Thai dishes, menu in Thai and English, with pictures. Quite cheap.

What I refer to as Muslim Gardens next to the 7/11 in Lamphun Road ( near Riverside condo ) does a good Chicken Biryani for 40 baht.

If you really want to lash out, you can pay about 2500 baht including one glass of wine for lunch at Le Coq D'Or in the same area.

OP asked for "cheap food".

Unless you are a Merc driver 2500 baht aint cheap.

Obviously an ironic comment is lost on you.

Actually, I do drive a Merc; however, it doesn't prevent me from looking for good value food.

Ok, OK, no need to tell us twice that you drive a Merc...

Irony was not at all lost on me. sardonicism is not needed thank you.

2500baht for a meal and a glass of plonk is far from good value in my humble Daewoo owning experience.

But i digress, back to Cheap food as OP inquired..

Many many good food outlets available.....its your choice, just look around and try them all...

Everyones tastes and values are very different .

Edited October 21, 2015 by garryjohns