Big Bike vs Truck. Don't forget your fire suit.

[NCC1701A]

feel really bad for this young man. all my girlfriends told me they say he is 19 years old.
please watch out for the trucks. they will kill you.

http://morning-news.bectero.com/social-crime/22-Oct-2015/59122

WARNING Graphic images!

Edited October 22, 2015 by Crossy
Added graphic image warning

[CarolJadzia]

Why did the rider not slow down? He had plenty of time.

I assume he thought he could make the gap but did not work out the trajectory of the trailer?

But there is no attempt to avoid the hazard.

Very rare to see a bike go up in flames like that as well.

[taninthai]

Already posted here. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/540101-bike-videos/page-23

[NCC1701A]

IMO I think he was traveling a bit fast for the traffic conditions. and combined with the choice of laying the bike down or going for it...

he may have been looking off the the left or right, just for a second, then faced with the entire road being blocked. also we all know there is that period of panic where you just freeze sometimes. or he could have just been stupid and went for it, seeing the truck from a distance.

the truck is in the wrong, but truck drivers here think big bikes are scooters going 30 kph and start their turns thinking the bike can stop in time.

my rule is i drive my big bike like a scooter in city or town traffic. in any small town i slow way down. Thai drivers have no respect or understanding of or for big bikes.

Edited October 22, 2015 by NCC1701A

[properperson]

Why did the rider not slow down? He had plenty of time.

I assume he thought he could make the gap but did not work out the trajectory of the trailer?

But there is no attempt to avoid the hazard.

Very rare to see a bike go up in flames like that as well.

Wise words as ever Carol - keep up the good work.....

[garryjohns]

IMO I think he was traveling a bit fast for the traffic conditions. and combined with the choice of laying the bike down or going for it...

he may have been looking off the the left or right, just for a second, then faced with the entire road being blocked. also we all know there is that period of panic where you just freeze sometimes. or he could have just been stupid and went for it, seeing the truck from a distance.

the truck is in the wrong, but truck drivers here think big bikes are scooters going 30 kph and start their turns thinking the bike can stop in time.

my rule is i drive my big bike like a scooter in city or town traffic. in any small town i slow way down. Thai drivers have no respect or understanding of or for big bikes.

the choice of laying the bike down or going for it.

There is never this choice .

"laying the bike down" is a myth

The only people who do deliberately lay a bike down are professional stuntmen and for the purpose only of it being a "stunt"

[CarolJadzia]

IMO I think he was traveling a bit fast for the traffic conditions. and combined with the choice of laying the bike down or going for it...

he may have been looking off the the left or right, just for a second, then faced with the entire road being blocked. also we all know there is that period of panic where you just freeze sometimes. or he could have just been stupid and went for it, seeing the truck from a distance.

the truck is in the wrong, but truck drivers here think big bikes are scooters going 30 kph and start their turns thinking the bike can stop in time.

my rule is i drive my big bike like a scooter in city or town traffic. in any small town i slow way down. Thai drivers have no respect or understanding of or for big bikes.

There are always some that can never see fault with the bike riders, always wanting to blame everyone else.

It is obvious that the guy was going too fast for the conditions, he had plenty of time to back off the throttle or apply the brakes from where we first see him in the video stage left.

It is an every day occurrence in Thailand for vehicles to turn across a riders path, be it in this manner or from left to right to do a U-turn.

Yes you can spent your time blaming others for their bad driving, but we all make mistakes. Thai roads are full of people driving having passed a very basic test or who have bought their licences and because they try to avoid confrontation they often refuse to look around them. Is it not better to understand that these things happen. Back off the throttle, slow down a bit, let the truck turn and then go back to enjoying your ride?

[taninthai]

I've actually wondered is there a method for laying the bike down I don't think it's easily done,trying to slam the back brake on and turbo g the bars is more likely to high side you.

[garryjohns]

I've actually wondered is there a method for laying the bike down I don't think it's easily done,trying to slam the back brake on and turbo g the bars is more likely to high side you.

Yes, i agree with you here.

A trained ,well practiced stuntman can do it ,but if an ordinary motorcyclist ever tells you that he/she deliberately had to " lay the bike down" it is only words to cover up a lack of competency whereby the rider actually in fact crashed after making a bad judgement call.

[CarolJadzia]

I've actually wondered is there a method for laying the bike down I don't think it's easily done,trying to slam the back brake on and turbo g the bars is more likely to high side you.

Yes, i agree with you here.

A trained ,well practiced stuntman can do it ,but if an ordinary motorcyclist ever tells you that he/she deliberately had to " lay the bike down" it is only words to cover up a lack of competency whereby the rider actually in fact crashed after making a bad judgement call.

I agree as well. Next time someone says "I laid my bike down to avoid an accident" ask them how they did it as it sounds like a good technique,

A bit of advice that we used to teach was to try and remember to throw your bike at the accident, the hope being that at least you would then avoid hitting it.

In practice the average person tends to put their pride and joy first so tries to avoid the collision and save the bike. Often making their own injuries worse by doing so.

Far better way is to avoid the situation in the first place. Lets learn how accidents happen and avoid them, rather than try to deal with them when we are suddenly surprised.

[CarolJadzia]

I've actually wondered is there a method for laying the bike down I don't think it's easily done,trying to slam the back brake on and turbo g the bars is more likely to high side you.

Actually laying the bike down is more common than high-siding, the most common point is on corners, put the bike into the bend and the corner suddenly tightens, then the rider panics and touches a brake, wheels slide out from under them. The high-side takes a little more energy. Normally same as above but as the wheels brake out they regain traction and then because of the forces now acting in the wrong direction the bike flips.

As I try to remember boring statistics I think it is single vehicle motorcycle accidents are the second most common reason for motorcycle accidents, very common and generally happen on corners.

[VocalNeal]

Thai drivers have no respect or understanding of or for big bikes.

A single headlight is a motocy, big or small makes no difference. How would anyone tell? Sure making a decision of what speed one thinks said motocy is travelling is wrong, but the driver cannot tell what it is. So one should ride accordingly.

He probably didn't realize the truck was towing a trailer which was the start of it, but in this case I'm thinking fixation was the final cause. He almost got the stop,drop and roll correct but then stood up.

Edited October 23, 2015 by VocalNeal

[MadMac]

Saw that in FB. The truck was standing, waiting for the U-turn. This guy just bumped into it without any reason, leaving DUI as explanation.

[SoFarAndNear]

Stop-Drop and Roll. This guy is a awesome. Never seen a video of someone doing it before.

Most people get panic and just run and jump around if they are burning. It is same like blowing into a bbq grill.

Good job 1+++

[Enoon]

Thai drivers have no respect or understanding of or for big bikes.

A single headlight is a motocy, big or small makes no difference. How would anyone tell? Sure making a decision of what speed one thinks said motocy is travelling is wrong, but the driver cannot tell what it is. So one should ride accordingly.

He probably didn't realize the truck was towing a trailer which was the start of it, but in this case I'm thinking fixation was the final cause. He almost got the stop,drop and roll correct but then stood up.

Given the number of trailers being towed on the roads of Thailand, one might of thought that he would have anticipa......... Oh no, wait a minute, 19 years old? Thai?

[NCC1701A]

IMO I think he was traveling a bit fast for the traffic conditions. and combined with the choice of laying the bike down or going for it...

he may have been looking off the the left or right, just for a second, then faced with the entire road being blocked. also we all know there is that period of panic where you just freeze sometimes. or he could have just been stupid and went for it, seeing the truck from a distance.

the truck is in the wrong, but truck drivers here think big bikes are scooters going 30 kph and start their turns thinking the bike can stop in time.

my rule is i drive my big bike like a scooter in city or town traffic. in any small town i slow way down. Thai drivers have no respect or understanding of or for big bikes.

the choice of laying the bike down or going for it.

There is never this choice .

"laying the bike down" is a myth

The only people who do deliberately lay a bike down are professional stuntmen and for the purpose only of it being a "stunt"

yes you are right. i should have said hit the brakes and hope for the best. at least he could have reduced his speed considerably. looks like he did not decelerate at all. horrible for him to be burned like that.

[apetley]

I've actually wondered is there a method for laying the bike down I don't think it's easily done,trying to slam the back brake on and turbo g the bars is more likely to high side you.

I used to work for the police in the UK and knew a few of the Police motorcycle riders. They were excellent, very fast and safe too. All of them said, 'lay a bike down deliberately and you've already had an accident'. Edited October 23, 2015 by apetley

[garryjohns]

I've actually wondered is there a method for laying the bike down I don't think it's easily done,trying to slam the back brake on and turbo g the bars is more likely to high side you.

I used to work for the police in the UK and knew a few of the Police motorcycle riders. They were excellent, very fast and safe too. All of them said, 'lay a bike down deliberately and you've already had an accident'.

For sure, and is interesting topic and been heard for many years.

I have never seen it done or done it myself, but when it has come up in conversation that someone has actually done this, it has come from the mouth of a known to be in inexperienced rider.

To the noobie i guess that they think it makes it sound better than saying "I F*%$#ed up"!

Edited October 23, 2015 by garryjohns

[CarolJadzia]

I've actually wondered is there a method for laying the bike down I don't think it's easily done,trying to slam the back brake on and turbo g the bars is more likely to high side you.

I used to work for the police in the UK and knew a few of the Police motorcycle riders. They were excellent, very fast and safe too. All of them said, 'lay a bike down deliberately and you've already had an accident'.

Yes, British Police use the System of Motorcycle Control that is based on the police riders manual called Roadcraft, I have been teaching this for many years. It does work and Police Riders are highly trained and experienced. Roadcraft has been the accepted standard for Advanced riding in the UK for over 40 years.

Anyone wondering about Motorcycle Roadcraft's contents can view some sample pages here http://www.roadcraft.co.uk/motorcycle-roadcraft/view-sample-ebook-pages

You will not find any mention of how to throw your bike at an accident.

There are limitations with the application of Roadcraft in Thailand however, as it assumes that other people will play by the rules. Although we have managed to get UK roads to some of the safest in the world, ten times safer than Thai roads. There are still many motorcycle accidents. Motorcyclists are still the most at risk of all road users. This is where we have started working on new thinking.

In the UK with the accident rate for motorcycles actually increasing recently the argument is that what is needed is more enforcement, more speed cameras, more police.

What we are saying is that does not work. Motorcycle riders will always want to ride fast, but in accidents, whoever causes it, we as riders will be the ones most hurt.

Notice anything about the images above? Always about blaming others for accidents. It's the cars fault for pulling out on us. Can't be our fault as we are all perfect riders!

Problem is that simply is not the case. In the OP Video the rider is not taking any evasive action at all. There is certainly no heavy braking going on up front.

What is it then? That because we are vulnerable and riding something fast and hard to see, everybody else has to be far more observant than they usually are just to avoid killing us?

Our new approach is to take responsabillity for our own actions and avoid the 'Surprises' that lead to accidents.

A fellow protagonist of the No Surprise / No Accident approach made a video about a technique we can use to make ourselves seen.

I was asked to explain this to a Thai Blogger friend as he wanted to share it. Anyone interested can read the full article on

Linkedin - Defensive riding in Thailand - Junctions or on Wordpress - Defensive Riding in Thailand - Junctions

But in this op video we could argue all day on if the lorry driver had seen the bike or not. From the speed the bike was going, the distance it was away when the lorry started it's turn, it's very hard to suggest that the driver was at fault. He possibly did see the bike in the distance and maybe did not judge the approach speed correctly? How could he? At that distance an approaching motorcycles speed is very hard to judge. Fact is that this is a very common type of accident in Thailand (fortunately normally without the fire ball) so the same will happen again, best that be someone else and not us!

[Shurup]

How do you lay down ABS bike traveling in a straight line? Just curious?

[AllanB]

Why are bikers so concerned about who is to blame, it is always going to be the biker who gets hurt, or killed, so what does it matter who's fault it is. Woulda, coulda shoulda, all academic after the event....

Secondly you chose to live and ride in Thailand, you probably do have greater riding skills than any of the locals and like to ride faster than the all locals, excluding some of the crazy kids here. That makes YOU the fish out of water in LOS and it is you who needs to adapt your riding style in order to survive in the environment you choose to ride.

In the UK where I spend summers, car drivers all seem to follow the speed limits under the threat heavy fines and points on their licence, but bikers just don't seem that threatened. I would estimate that for every car I see speeding along the back roads there are 5 bikes riding too fast. There are are around 32 cars for every bike on the roads there, so that is a lot of speeding bikes in comparison to the much safer cars.

[CarolJadzia]

Why are bikers so concerned about who is to blame, it is always going to be the biker who gets hurt, or killed, so what does it matter who's fault it is. Woulda, coulda shoulda, all academic after the event....

Secondly you chose to live and ride in Thailand, you probably do have greater riding skills than any of the locals and like to ride faster than the all locals, excluding some of the crazy kids here. That makes YOU the fish out of water in LOS and it is you who needs to adapt your riding style in order to survive in the environment you choose to ride.

In the UK where I spend summers, car drivers all seem to follow the speed limits under the threat heavy fines and points on their licence, but bikers just don't seem that threatened. I would estimate that for every car I see speeding along the back roads there are 5 bikes riding too fast. There are are around 32 cars for every bike on the roads there, so that is a lot of speeding bikes in comparison to the much safer cars.

Yep, thank you for confirming my point.

Except this is not about my riding in Thailand. I did exactly as you say - adapted my riding to deal with the surroundings.

However the rider in the OP video did nothing of the sort. Just kept the power on and dived into trouble.

BTW those cars you refer to driving round British roads keeping to the speed limit are actually the greatest killers on UK roads. They kill Pedestrians. It's the normal everyday drivers keeping to the speed limits that make the mistakes. We all make mistakes, we are all human.

All the heavy fines, speed cameras, average speed camera's. Automatic number plate recognition systems and the risk of points or loosing their driving licence. Along of course with the financial penalties from Insurance companies. All have no effect on stopping speeding riders and drivers if they think they can get away with it.

Most of them riders you see on UK roads have not done any advanced training. Also any amount of advanced Police Roadcraft training currently available will only have limited effect. Experience counts. Long as some ground rules are practiced such as how to use the brakes and how to corner, the big thing that makes motorcycle riders safer is experience.

Experience counts.

[AllanB]

Carol, are you sure you really wanted to say this?...."BTW those cars you refer to driving round British roads keeping to the speed limit are actually the greatest killers on UK roads. They kill Pedestrians."

Now I know you can make statistic prove anything, so I guess your thinking is this.... "99% of motoring is carried out within the legal speed limits and 98.5% of pedestrians are killed by people driving within the speed limit"

Case proven....

......and of course, British roads are some of the safest in the world.....stupid responsible fools.......

[CarolJadzia]

Carol, are you sure you really wanted to say this?...."BTW those cars you refer to driving round British roads keeping to the speed limit are actually the greatest killers on UK roads. They kill Pedestrians."

Now I know you can make statistic prove anything, so I guess your thinking is this.... "99% of motoring is carried out within the legal speed limits and 98.5% of pedestrians are killed by people driving within the speed limit"

Case proven....

......and of course, British roads are some of the safest in the world.....stupid responsible fools.......

Yes I know statistics can be twisted. But the UK does break things down further than that.

You may find this an interesting read -

Pedestrian Safety and the Experienced Driver

[nikster]

Why did the rider not slow down? He had plenty of time.

I assume he thought he could make the gap but did not work out the trajectory of the trailer?

I think it's pretty obvious what happened.

- Biker sees truck making a U-turn and blocking his entire lane

- Tries to smoothly sail around the truck on the right without slowing down - this is the mistake - you have to slow down if a big truck blocks the road AND also your view.

- Just at the moment where he can narrowly pass the truck on the right, there's an oncoming car passing really closely. I am convinced the biker couldn't see the car and vice versa - the truck was blocking both their view

- The car tries to avoid the biker and swerves off

- Biker tries to avoid the head-on collision and hits the back of the truck (some trucks also have bits sticking out the back, maybe that too)

The guy was very lucky to be alive. He's able to still run (!) away from the crash. Then he's on fire, and luckily there are bystanders who douse the flames within seconds. I saw some pictures of the aftermath - the rider was sitting there, conscious, but with what appeared to be pretty bad burns all over his upper body and face. But he was alive! He'll make it but he will be in hospital for quite some time.

Edit: The very best part about this entire incident is how many people show up to help, and how fast they act. Their quick and unselfish reaction certainly saved the driver's life. I will have to remember the hit-it-with-a-jacket trick for dousing fires... I wouldn't even have thought of that.

Edited October 25, 2015 by nikster

[AllanB]

Carol, are you sure you really wanted to say this?...."BTW those cars you refer to driving round British roads keeping to the speed limit are actually the greatest killers on UK roads. They kill Pedestrians."

Now I know you can make statistic prove anything, so I guess your thinking is this.... "99% of motoring is carried out within the legal speed limits and 98.5% of pedestrians are killed by people driving within the speed limit"

Case proven....

......and of course, British roads are some of the safest in the world.....stupid responsible fools.......

Yes I know statistics can be twisted. But the UK does break things down further than that.

You may find this an interesting read -

Pedestrian Safety and the Experienced Driver

I was being sarcastic about statistics.......

Yes, you can always pick certain situations where it is safer to drive faster, on motorways for instance, especially late at night. Driving (a car) at 70mph (110kph) for a long distance is really monotonous and sleep inducing. If I am doing 100mph+ I am wide awake and really focused and therefore much safer, but this is more motorway specific. My only risk in that situation is if a cow falls out of the sky, so it is worth the risk.

If you look at all these bike accidents, they are all travelling fast in an area where there are possible hazards, so you really have to be specific about where you drive/ride fast.

"Possible hazards" is always the key, accounting for the actions of individuals should not be part of that equation.

[Briggsy]

I agree with nikster and Carol that the rider showed inexperience and recklessness. At his age (18) I would have been just the same. He didn't want to slow down and went for a gap but it was impossible for him to know what was behind the turning truck and probably impossible to know just how long the truck was.and if I might suddenly stop.

I couldn't identify the bike. Was it a Z800?

If he survives and gets back on the road, that will be a lesson he will never forget. Don't just hope that there is nothing behind a turning vehicle, over the crest of a hill, coming out of a concealed side turning, etc. and slow down, knock it down a gear and cover your brakes at intersections even if you have the right of way. Sooner or later something will turn into your path, particularly in Thailand.

[CarolJadzia]

Yes, you can always pick certain situations where it is safer to drive faster, on motorways for instance, especially late at night. Driving (a car) at 70mph (110kph) for a long distance is really monotonous and sleep inducing. If I am doing 100mph+ I am wide awake and really focused and therefore much safer, but this is more motorway specific. My only risk in that situation is if a cow falls out of the sky, so it is worth the risk.

If you look at all these bike accidents, they are all travelling fast in an area where there are possible hazards, so you really have to be specific about where you drive/ride fast.

"Possible hazards" is always the key, accounting for the actions of individuals should not be part of that equation.

I am not condoning driving faster. It's just speed is normally singled out as an easy target for blame. The car/bike was speeding so it was their fault.

Fact is most bike riders will speed, nothing will change that. We did start using the term "travelling at an appropriate speed for the conditions"

But what is an appropriate speed for the conditions? When you start asking the question you get lots of different answers.

It could be that the rider in the OP was not speeding. His fault was that he did not take evasive action when the lorry started to turn.

So I agree with you on identifying possible hazards, that's what a big chunk of the 'no surprise' new thinking is aimed at.

Although 'big bike' accidents make the headlines the majority of road accidents in Thailand are on small bikes and tend to be at low speeds. Just there are so many of them they are not news worthy. Thailand is currently having around 20 to 30 deaths a day (except for national holidays when there are more) with 72% of them reported as motorcycle accidents. But with the lack of safety gear, confusion over who has the right of way at junctions, beliefs in reincarnation and not even proper braking skills required for test standard, it is not really a surprise.

If you want to identify hazards you have to include the actions of individuals, it does not matter if it should not be part of the equation, I totally agree with you that is shouldn't be, but unfortunately it is. Our way is to look at why that is the case, so we can avoid the situations and hopefully take correct evasive action if required.

[AllanB]

When I suggested that the actions of individuals shouldn't be part of the risk assessment equation, I meant you should always assume the worst. If you do meet a sensible guy who does see you are does react correctly, well I call that lucky.

But your statement "But with the lack of safety gear, confusion over who has the right of way at junctions, beliefs in reincarnation and not even proper braking skills required for test standard, it is not really a surprise." is spot on, but perhaps add "belief in their own immortality when it comes to the young" and that applies everywhere in the world..

[Briggsy]

What was the bike, anyone?