PM Prayuth to decide on tough new penalties for foreigners who overstay

[brewsterbudgen]

Any decision yet?

Check back next year for another announcement.

With luck it will quietly be forgotten about...

[GOLDBUGGY]

Four pages of people complaining that the rules for OVERSTAY their visa are too harsh.

Seems like a lot of people came here with intention to break the immigration laws.

I doubt many people here are breaking any rules or planning to. What I think it is from people who have to jump through all these hoops every year to get a one year extension, and to be frank are getting full up with that. That through personal experience they know what it is like having to do this year after year with each new coming year more difficult then the year before. That question why it has to be this way.

Sure! Easy to say that if you don't like it here, or these rules, then go home. If all you were leaving behind was a hotel room I would agree with you. But many have property here, a family, and a life here, and because of that it is not so easy to do. In fact I would venture to say that because of this people don't just pull up the tent stakes and move on to another country. Which I am sure some have.

The truth is that living in Thailand as a Foreigner on a extension, you are treated no better then a guy out of jail on Parole. With the Police coming to your residence to check on where you live. With the 90 day reporting to the Probation Officer (Immigration). With the notification of a change in address so they know where you are living at all times (like a Sex Offender). Having to apply each year no matter how long you have lived here and been a good citizen. Yet left wondering each time if your Parole will be extended or cancelled. That any violation of these strict rules can lead to a violation of your Parole and having your right to stay here removed in an instant.

So it isn't really from people wondering if they should break any rules. It is just from people asking the question if they really need to be treated this way just to live here for another year? This news won't cause a mass exodus of foreigners here. It just poses the question "What Next?". Do they want us to stay or go?

You know, I don't think there is any conscious policy of wanting us to stay or go, the whole rigmarole you so accurately describe has grown out of beaurocratic desire to justify status, face, and accumulate minor power. It doesn't really control or monitor us effectively.

Every time I have any contact with the local immigration office I have to fill in the same form explaining where I live, marital status etc, which is presumably then filed with the previous one.

I think a lot of these present laws where set up a long time ago. I keep hearing the year 1979 kicked around a lot. So perhaps a lot of these laws are outdated now. Any laws before the Internet and Computers have to be outdated.

I have lived in a lot of different places in my life time. For this I feel blessed. But let me try to explain by example and discuss my time in Poland and before they joined the E.U.

On my first application for a Residence Visa I did provide a Police Clearance Report from my country and proof of funds, which wasn't very much. My Wife was working then so I didn't really need that. I did have an interview with Immigration which was okay. The Police also did come to my door my first time and I had a very friendly chat with him for about 30 minutes. A real nice guy, if I recall.

After that I was given a 2 Year Residence Visa and that was it for 2 years. There was no 90 day reporting. No forms were required when I stayed in a hotel. I could come and go out of the country as much as I liked without any exit/re-entry visa. If I did make a permanent residence move within Poland I was expected to report this to the local police within 90 days.

In short I had the same rights as a citizen, including buying property, opening a bank account, and medical coverage, which I got for free from my wife's employment, but could have got cheaply if she didn't work. In fact all I couldn't do there that I knew of, was vote. On my second application it was very much the same except the police were not required to come to my residence this time. I could have got a longer Residence Visa this time also, but my Passport Expired in 2 years, so I got that instead. The third time I got 3 years.

I am in no way suggesting that people should break the law. If people choose to live here they should respect it and follow the rules. All that I am suggesting is that if you are going to look at these Immigration Laws, and change any, then maybe they should look at them all and revamp them all to be more modern and up-to-date.

[NanLaew]

The real question is why is an army general making immigration laws?

Is the Thai Immigration department so incompetent that an outsider whose expertise is in killing people has better ideas about immigration than the people who've spent their entire careers within the department? Or is this buffalo soldier prime minister just looking for the weakest people to go to war with?

Because he isn't "an army general" anymore? He was when he abrogated the standing constitution though.

The recent sacking of Immigration staff at Sakaeo in light of the Bangkok bombers and associates bunging them to go in and out of the country was well publicized.

So was the statement yesterday by the Immigration Chief that it is Prayuth that is deciding if the new laws are enacted.

The fact that there's probably a whole upper hierarchy at Immigration that have been bought and paid for by people traffickers, bombers and 'people of influence' is probably why the 'career' Immigration officer is now an endangered species.

Edited October 27, 2015 by NanLaew

[elviajero]

"Other countries have no deaths in detention". How did you come up with that little gem!

Show me a Singapore version of Thaivisa where several members have posted that they saw people die in detention? Check thaibreaker's thread, the conditions in IDC are well documented on this forum. In the media too.

Replace 'no deaths' in my post with 'significantly less deaths' if we're being pedantic.

Are those sticklers for always following the law to the letter, also campaigning to stop the human rights abuses in Thailand's IDC?

I think it's a stretch to accuse me of being pedantic when "no" and "less" don't even come close.

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

[sjaak327]

"Other countries have no deaths in detention". How did you come up with that little gem!

Show me a Singapore version of Thaivisa where several members have posted that they saw people die in detention? Check thaibreaker's thread, the conditions in IDC are well documented on this forum. In the media too.

Replace 'no deaths' in my post with 'significantly less deaths' if we're being pedantic.

Are those sticklers for always following the law to the letter, also campaigning to stop the human rights abuses in Thailand's IDC?

I think it's a stretch to accuse me of being pedantic when "no" and "less" don't even come close.

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

I bet you don't. Some people lack compassion and imagination on other people's misfortunes. It is what it is, I personally think such persons are ignorant to the extreme.

People have been in the IDC after honest mistakes, some have been ratted out (an even more despicable thing to do to another human being), none belong there.

In any case, the fact that something like the IDC exist and the deplorable conditions that have been reported by people that actually stayed there (no mention on pizza.a either) is testament to the 'lax' overstay rules doesn't actually exist if one doesn't make it to the airport or border and instead of making them less draconian, they plan on making them even mire strict.

So strict that a general tourist can face deportation and ban of five years for even a single day on overstay.

Not sure what the problem is they are trying to tackle with these draconian bullocks, considering the 79K reported overstay isn't even a drop in the ocean on 23 million yearly arrivals.

[oncearugge]

"Other countries have no deaths in detention". How did you come up with that little gem!

Show me a Singapore version of Thaivisa where several members have posted that they saw people die in detention? Check thaibreaker's thread, the conditions in IDC are well documented on this forum. In the media too.

Replace 'no deaths' in my post with 'significantly less deaths' if we're being pedantic.

Are those sticklers for always following the law to the letter, also campaigning to stop the human rights abuses in Thailand's IDC?

I think it's a stretch to accuse me of being pedantic when "no" and "less" don't even come close.

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

Whilst I have never been inside an IDC a friend who visited an inmate reported the conditions to be "austere" with little in the way of creature comforts.

Maybe we, in the West have forgotten that the purpose of prison is to deter a person from wishing to return.

The absence of single room accommodation , entertainment and colour TV does not IMHO constitute "human rights" abuse !

[elviajero]

"Other countries have no deaths in detention". How did you come up with that little gem!

Show me a Singapore version of Thaivisa where several members have posted that they saw people die in detention? Check thaibreaker's thread, the conditions in IDC are well documented on this forum. In the media too.

Replace 'no deaths' in my post with 'significantly less deaths' if we're being pedantic.

Are those sticklers for always following the law to the letter, also campaigning to stop the human rights abuses in Thailand's IDC?

I think it's a stretch to accuse me of being pedantic when "no" and "less" don't even come close.

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

I bet you don't. Some people lack compassion and imagination on other people's misfortunes. It is what it is, I personally think such persons are ignorant to the extreme.

People have been in the IDC after honest mistakes, some have been ratted out (an even more despicable thing to do to another human being), none belong there.

In any case, the fact that something like the IDC exist and the deplorable conditions that have been reported by people that actually stayed there (no mention on pizza.a either) is testament to the 'lax' overstay rules doesn't actually exist if one doesn't make it to the airport or border and instead of making them less draconian, they plan on making them even mire strict.

So strict that a general tourist can face deportation and ban of five years for even a single day on overstay.

Not sure what the problem is they are trying to tackle with these draconian bullocks, considering the 79K reported overstay isn't even a drop in the ocean on 23 million yearly arrivals.

Another one that can't read and quick to jump on their high horse! I said the "many that choose to overstay".

[jspill]

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

There's not going to be an easily Google-able source to prove a negative. If there were issues, it'd be all over Google like Thailand's issues are. Surprised you aren't aware, it's fairly common knowledge.

Here's a link about entire families with children being locked up, and what the conditions are like. Anyone in this thread wanting overstayers to be incarcerated, is presumably ok with that? https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/09/01/thailand-migrant-children-locked

If you have money there are private rooms where you can order food delivery yes. 3000 baht/night. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780211-my-experience-at-idc-for-overstaying/

[billd766]

Thailand isn't left behind now. In Cambodia and Laos, overstaying your visa is nowhere near as dangerous as in Thailand. No stories of overstayers being locked up in the IDC in Cambodia.

Overstaying your visa should be dealt with as a minor offence, punishable with a fine only. The reality in Thailand is that this is not the case if you not make it to the border or airport.

The new rules being under consideration are even more draconian, as people that do not make it to the airport or border with a one day overstay risk deportation and a five year ban.

It boggles the mind how anyone with common sense could possibly believe this to be a good measure !

The reality is that this IS Thailand and the Thais HAVE the right to make or modify laws without reference to anybody else.

If you don't like or cannot cope with that fact, then the problem is yours and NOT Thailand's.

Oh they certainly do (let's forget the fact how the current regime actually got into power, as it would confuse people even more).

Just as I have every right to ridicule those very same laws if they don't make any sense and do not in any way ensure a punishment in line with the crime.

However, I don't think that Thailand need to worry about what I think, I think they need to worry about the message these draconian laws bring to their cash cow tourism.

So in your opinion enforcing the existing laws is a non no and people should be allowed to pick and choose which laws they will obey and which laws they will ignore?

The majority of tourists who come to Thailand either on a tourist visa or on a 30 day VOA will NOT be affected as they are genuine tourists. If they want an extra 7 days they can get that at any Immigration office. If they want to stay longer and KNOW that before they arrive then they can apply for a longer visa at the point of origin.

What this government wants to enforce is the law that says if you have a visa for xx days and you deliberately overstay that period, making no effort to obtain another visa or an extension, then you are breaking the law and ought to be, and will be punished.

It is exactly the same as other countries who enforce the overstay law.

It isn't really that difficult to count up the number of days that your visa is valid for, then enter a date 3 or 4 days before it is due on the calendar of your smart phone to tell you that you will have to make a decision what to do.

Now if you wish to break the law then go ahead and do so. I really don't care, but if you do, and you get caught, then please don't come onto TVF with your sob story, as most people here really don't care about lawbreakers.

In Thailand it is called "Som Nam Na".

Edited October 27, 2015 by billd766

[LannaGuy]

Thailand isn't left behind now. In Cambodia and Laos, overstaying your visa is nowhere near as dangerous as in Thailand. No stories of overstayers being locked up in the IDC in Cambodia.

Overstaying your visa should be dealt with as a minor offence, punishable with a fine only. The reality in Thailand is that this is not the case if you not make it to the border or airport.

The new rules being under consideration are even more draconian, as people that do not make it to the airport or border with a one day overstay risk deportation and a five year ban.

It boggles the mind how anyone with common sense could possibly believe this to be a good measure !

The reality is that this IS Thailand and the Thais HAVE the right to make or modify laws without reference to anybody else.

If you don't like or cannot cope with that fact, then the problem is yours and NOT Thailand's.

Oh they certainly do (let's forget the fact how the current regime actually got into power, as it would confuse people even more).

Just as I have every right to ridicule those very same laws if they don't make any sense and do not in any way ensure a punishment in line with the crime.

However, I don't think that Thailand need to worry about what I think, I think they need to worry about the message these draconian laws bring to their cash cow tourism.

So in your opinion enforcing the existing laws is a non no and people should be allowed to pick and choose which laws they will obey and which laws they will ignore?

The majority of tourists who come to Thailand either on a tourist visa or on a 30 day VOA will NOT be affected as they are genuine tourists. If they want an extra 7 days they can get that at any Immigration office. If they want to stay longer and KNOW that before they arrive then they can apply for a longer visa at the point of origin.

What this government wants to enforce is the law that says if you have a visa for xx days and you deliberately overstay that period, making no effort to obtain another visa or an extension, then you are breaking the law and ought to be, and will be punished.

It is exactly the same as other countries who enforce the overstay law.

It isn't really that difficult to count up the number of days that your visa is valid for, then enter a date 3 or 4 days before it is due on the calendar of your smart phone to tell you that you will have to make a decision what to do.

Now if you wish to break the law then go ahead and do so. I really don't care, but if you do, and you get caught, then please don't come onto TVF with your sob story, as most people here really don't care about lawbreakers.

In Thailand it is called "Som Nam Na".

yes mr self righteous we know you support this style of government

[sjaak327]

I think it's a stretch to accuse me of being pedantic when "no" and "less" don't even come close.

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

I bet you don't. Some people lack compassion and imagination on other people's misfortunes. It is what it is, I personally think such persons are ignorant to the extreme.

People have been in the IDC after honest mistakes, some have been ratted out (an even more despicable thing to do to another human being), none belong there.

In any case, the fact that something like the IDC exist and the deplorable conditions that have been reported by people that actually stayed there (no mention on pizza.a either) is testament to the 'lax' overstay rules doesn't actually exist if one doesn't make it to the airport or border and instead of making them less draconian, they plan on making them even mire strict.

So strict that a general tourist can face deportation and ban of five years for even a single day on overstay.

Not sure what the problem is they are trying to tackle with these draconian bullocks, considering the 79K reported overstay isn't even a drop in the ocean on 23 million yearly arrivals.

Another one that can't read and quick to jump on their high horse! I said the "many that choose to overstay".

I did read the 'choose' to overstay remark just fine, a good reader would know why the term imagination on other people's misfortune comes from. There are precious little people who choose to overstay.

And none of them should receive this treatment.

[sjaak327]

So in your opinion enforcing the existing laws is a non no and people should be allowed to pick and choose which laws they will obey and which laws they will ignore?

The majority of tourists who come to Thailand either on a tourist visa or on a 30 day VOA will NOT be affected as they are genuine tourists. If they want an extra 7 days they can get that at any Immigration office. If they want to stay longer and KNOW that before they arrive then they can apply for a longer visa at the point of origin.

What this government wants to enforce is the law that says if you have a visa for xx days and you deliberately overstay that period, making no effort to obtain another visa or an extension, then you are breaking the law and ought to be, and will be punished.

It is exactly the same as other countries who enforce the overstay law.

It isn't really that difficult to count up the number of days that your visa is valid for, then enter a date 3 or 4 days before it is due on the calendar of your smart phone to tell you that you will have to make a decision what to do.

Now if you wish to break the law then go ahead and do so. I really don't care, but if you do, and you get caught, then please don't come onto TVF with your sob story, as most people here really don't care about lawbreakers.

In Thailand it is called "Som Nam Na".

I never claimed such a thing. And considering the guy who is supposed to ok this little gem has shown everyone how he ignored and broke the law of the land, playing the follow the law card is not working out very well..

There is nothing wrong with pointing out why this law is too strict and wrong. And yes the way the law is worded could easily land a normal tourist in trouble. Note how the wording for someone who is caught on overstay mentions a five year ban on an overstay of less than one year.

And considering this is Thailand it will offer an even better tea money opportunity for the country's fine law establishment agencies.

No matter what, the penalties don't fit the crime, and all that could be expected from any government is that laws are applied equally and fair. I already explained how this law, as worded is neither.

[oncearugge]

sjaak327

Agree.

Thailand treats overstayer's much too leniently.

A good dose of Singaporean Justice is needed to persuade them that overstay is unwise !

[billd766]

c1_742528_151026045623_620x413.jpg

Oh they certainly do (let's forget the fact how the current regime actually got into power, as it would confuse people even more).

Just as I have every right to ridicule those very same laws if they don't make any sense and do not in any way ensure a punishment in line with the crime.

However, I don't think that Thailand need to worry about what I think, I think they need to worry about the message these draconian laws bring to their cash cow tourism.

So in your opinion enforcing the existing laws is a non no and people should be allowed to pick and choose which laws they will obey and which laws they will ignore?

The majority of tourists who come to Thailand either on a tourist visa or on a 30 day VOA will NOT be affected as they are genuine tourists. If they want an extra 7 days they can get that at any Immigration office. If they want to stay longer and KNOW that before they arrive then they can apply for a longer visa at the point of origin.

What this government wants to enforce is the law that says if you have a visa for xx days and you deliberately overstay that period, making no effort to obtain another visa or an extension, then you are breaking the law and ought to be, and will be punished.

It is exactly the same as other countries who enforce the overstay law.

It isn't really that difficult to count up the number of days that your visa is valid for, then enter a date 3 or 4 days before it is due on the calendar of your smart phone to tell you that you will have to make a decision what to do.

Now if you wish to break the law then go ahead and do so. I really don't care, but if you do, and you get caught, then please don't come onto TVF with your sob story, as most people here really don't care about lawbreakers.

In Thailand it is called "Som Nam Na".

yes mr self righteous we know you support this style of government

If you don't like the message then attack the messenger.

You seem to condone breaking the law so go ahead and do it but don't whine if people get caught. If somebody deliberately breaks the law then they should be punished. I you cannot work out how long your visa is valid for then perhaps you shouldn't be allowed out without your Mummy holding your hand.

A simple question with a simple yes or no answer.

Do YOU personally agree with breaking the laws of a country if YOU disagree with them?

[elviajero]

I think it's a stretch to accuse me of being pedantic when "no" and "less" don't even come close.

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

I bet you don't. Some people lack compassion and imagination on other people's misfortunes. It is what it is, I personally think such persons are ignorant to the extreme.

People have been in the IDC after honest mistakes, some have been ratted out (an even more despicable thing to do to another human being), none belong there.

In any case, the fact that something like the IDC exist and the deplorable conditions that have been reported by people that actually stayed there (no mention on pizza.a either) is testament to the 'lax' overstay rules doesn't actually exist if one doesn't make it to the airport or border and instead of making them less draconian, they plan on making them even mire strict.

So strict that a general tourist can face deportation and ban of five years for even a single day on overstay.

Not sure what the problem is they are trying to tackle with these draconian bullocks, considering the 79K reported overstay isn't even a drop in the ocean on 23 million yearly arrivals.

Another one that can't read and quick to jump on their high horse! I said the "many that choose to overstay".

I did read the 'choose' to overstay remark just fine, a good reader would know why the term imagination on other people's misfortune comes from. There are precious little people who choose to overstay.

And none of them should receive this treatment.

Nothing wrong with your imagination if you think precious little people choose to overstay.

Lets be clear. IMO those, whatever the number is, that choose to stay in the country illegally and get caught deserve no sympathy. I have a great deal of sympathy for some people that I imagine end up there through misfortune.

[sjaak327]

I did read the 'choose' to overstay remark just fine, a good reader would know why the term imagination on other people's misfortune comes from. There are precious little people who choose to overstay.

And none of them should receive this treatment.

Nothing wrong with your imagination if you think precious little people choose to overstay.

Lets be clear. IMO those, whatever the number is, that choose to stay in the country illegally and get caught deserve no sympathy. I have a great deal of sympathy for some people that I imagine end up there through misfortune.

Total overstay numbers talk about 79.000 cases out of 23 million arrivals, and that number doesn't actually break out people who overstayed for reasons beyond their control versus the people that made the conscious decision to overstay.

And trust me if I say there are plenty of people that went on overstay due to reasons beyond their control. And those reasons are not that hard to imagine either I would have thought.

In fact I know several people personally who had that misfortune, don't even need to imagine it...

[elviajero]

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

There's not going to be an easily Google-able source to prove a negative. If there were issues, it'd be all over Google like Thailand's issues are. Surprised you aren't aware, it's fairly common knowledge.

Here's a link about entire families with children being locked up, and what the conditions are like. Anyone in this thread wanting overstayers to be incarcerated, is presumably ok with that? https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/09/01/thailand-migrant-children-locked

If you have money there are private rooms where you can order food delivery yes. 3000 baht/night. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780211-my-experience-at-idc-for-overstaying/

I'm aware the conditions aren't great if you can't afford a private room but detention is justified.

Why do you make comments like "Anyone in this thread wanting overstayers to be incarcerated, is presumably ok with that?" How can you possibly think people ok with overstayers being detained prior to deportation would be ok with migrant children being locked up in poor conditions for years!

Migrants and asylum seekers being detained is a whole different problem. A terrible problem that should be addressed but is in noway connected to the discussion about foreigners getting bans for overstaying or being temporarily detained prior to deportation.

[jspill]

I'm aware the conditions aren't great if you can't afford a private room but detention is justified.

Why do you make comments like "Anyone in this thread wanting overstayers to be incarcerated, is presumably ok with that?" How can you possibly think people ok with overstayers being detained prior to deportation would be ok with migrant children being locked up in poor conditions for years!

Migrants and asylum seekers being detained is a whole different problem. A terrible problem that should be addressed but is in noway connected to the discussion about foreigners getting bans for overstaying or being temporarily detained prior to deportation.

The conditions are the same for western overstayers. If people were detained in conditions that didn't breach their human rights, and they overstayed of their own choosing, I'd agree with you that it doesn't deserve sympathy. But real life isn't as neat as that. Most are in appalling conditions, and most just fell on bad times due to circumstances out of their control, have mental problems, or a host of other reasons.

A German sadly died in my arms a week before my release and I really pity all those Bangla, BUrmese, Lao and Khmer woman that were locked up with their children. I have seen two people that died in front of me

From this thread - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780211-my-experience-at-idc-for-overstaying/page-5#entry8741823

Edited October 27, 2015 by jspill

[plaid]

I did read the 'choose' to overstay remark just fine, a good reader would know why the term imagination on other people's misfortune comes from. There are precious little people who choose to overstay.

And none of them should receive this treatment.

Nothing wrong with your imagination if you think precious little people choose to overstay.

Lets be clear. IMO those, whatever the number is, that choose to stay in the country illegally and get caught deserve no sympathy. I have a great deal of sympathy for some people that I imagine end up there through misfortune.

Total overstay numbers talk about 79.000 cases out of 23 million arrivals, and that number doesn't actually break out people who overstayed for reasons beyond their control versus the people that made the conscious decision to overstay.

And trust me if I say there are plenty of people that went on overstay due to reasons beyond their control. And those reasons are not that hard to imagine either I would have thought.

In fact I know several people personally who had that misfortune, don't even need to imagine it...

you avin a larf aint ya ? hear this stuff everyday in the UK....it not my fault, its always someone elses...fault

[Wilsonandson]

So what you were in fact saying was that Singapore has significantly less deaths in detention centres than Thailand. I've no idea if that's true. But I'm sure you can provide links to a factual source.

I'd have thought that people that follow the law are more likely to support campaigns to stop human rights abuses. I'd also expect that those on overstay or working illegally, and facing the possibility of a stay at the IDC, would be concerned about human rights mostly for selfish reasons.

I have no idea about the conditions or human rights abuses in the IDC. I do, however, recall one report saying that you can order pizza in!

I have no sympathy for the many that choose to overstay and find themselves in the IDC, but regardless Thailand should not be committing human rights abuse.

There's not going to be an easily Google-able source to prove a negative. If there were issues, it'd be all over Google like Thailand's issues are. Surprised you aren't aware, it's fairly common knowledge.

Here's a link about entire families with children being locked up, and what the conditions are like. Anyone in this thread wanting overstayers to be incarcerated, is presumably ok with that? https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/09/01/thailand-migrant-children-locked

If you have money there are private rooms where you can order food delivery yes. 3000 baht/night. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780211-my-experience-at-idc-for-overstaying/

I'm aware the conditions aren't great if you can't afford a private room but detention is justified.

Why do you make comments like "Anyone in this thread wanting overstayers to be incarcerated, is presumably ok with that?" How can you possibly think people ok with overstayers being detained prior to deportation would be ok with migrant children being locked up in poor conditions for years!

Migrants and asylum seekers being detained is a whole different problem. A terrible problem that should be addressed but is in noway connected to the discussion about foreigners getting bans for overstaying or being temporarily detained prior to deportation.

Temporarily detained prior to deportation. This should help tourism.

[sjaak327]

I did read the 'choose' to overstay remark just fine, a good reader would know why the term imagination on other people's misfortune comes from. There are precious little people who choose to overstay.

And none of them should receive this treatment.

Nothing wrong with your imagination if you think precious little people choose to overstay.

Lets be clear. IMO those, whatever the number is, that choose to stay in the country illegally and get caught deserve no sympathy. I have a great deal of sympathy for some people that I imagine end up there through misfortune.

Total overstay numbers talk about 79.000 cases out of 23 million arrivals, and that number doesn't actually break out people who overstayed for reasons beyond their control versus the people that made the conscious decision to overstay.

And trust me if I say there are plenty of people that went on overstay due to reasons beyond their control. And those reasons are not that hard to imagine either I would have thought.

In fact I know several people personally who had that misfortune, don't even need to imagine it...

you avin a larf aint ya ? hear this stuff everyday in the UK....it not my fault, its always someone elses...fault

Apparently it IS hard to imagine. My Lao partner for instance lost his passport due to theft, and since it was Songkran, both immigration and the Lao embassy were closed for a full four working days, are you claiming he overstayed due to his own fault ? A bit hard preventing an overstay without a passport and with no chance to get a laissez passez with your embassy if it's closed for business.

People that travel to BKK airport some time before their actual flights home, and are on overstay due to their flight into BKK being cancelled, with no time left to get there by any other means are at fault as well right ?

Amazing how people lack the imagination that there are several valid reasons why people cannot leave on time, and nothing they can do about it.

[Lampang2]

Claim your right to everything!

Offer expires if you grow up.

[oncearugge]

sjaak327

How was the Loa "partner" caught if there was only a few days overstay and how was the overstay discovered in the absence of the passport?

The "theft" of the passport was immediately reported to the police ? .....Was it ?

An Emergency travel document could have been issued as soon as the Embassy opened and most Embassy's will issue such documents out of hours in emergency situations.

Sounds like smoke being blown ...........................

[sjaak327]

sjaak327

How was the Loa "partner" caught if there was only a few days overstay and how was the overstay discovered in the absence of the passport?

The "theft" of the passport was immediately reported to the police ? .....Was it ?

An Emergency travel document could have been issued as soon as the Embassy opened and most Embassy's will issue such documents out of hours in emergency situations.

Sounds like smoke being blown ...........................

Where did I claim he was caught ? I claimed he was on an overstay, which he was, are you calling me a liar now ? And no, we tried to contact the embassy and weren't able to, a bit hard to be issued that emergency document when nobody answers either the door or the phone.

The emergency document was issued on the first day they re-opened, by which time the overstay was three days. He wasn't even charged an overstay fine, but that is not the point, the point is there are plenty of reasons people are on overstay that is beyond their control.

By the way it is a Lao Partner, and has been for the past eleven years, so "partner" is not necessary.

Edited October 27, 2015 by sjaak327

[boomerangutang]

I have never overstayed a visa and I never will. 0.2% of westerners who overstay have no effect on my life in Thailand. Buying a house using a scheme through setting up a company and dodgy lawyers is also illegal. I think general should go after those people. It's a more serious crime :-)

re: a farang buying property or building upon it - 97% of the time that property will wind up benefitting one or more Thai people or his half-Thai kids. The exception may be if he sells the property. Even then, the proceeds will most likely benefit Thais (probably his wife and/or her family). Doesn't much matter whether the farang bought the property and put it in his wife's/gf's/Thais name, or whether he did it via a proxy Thai corp.

I'm judging by the reality of what actually happens, rather than the pie-in-the-sky scenario visualized by the farang before the dust settles. Plus, farang husbands are usually 5 to 35 yrs older than their Thai wives, so the man will likely die sooner.

[mrdome]

Tar us with same brush? Most Thai people are barely aware of immigration laws at all and don't care about overstay.

Want to know what tars all foreigners with the same brush, which is a crime that is never enforced? Prostitution. Foriegners frequenting red light areas and walking around with hookers makes all foreigners look bad. All foreigners patronizing prostitutes should be banned for 5 years if they turn themselves in, 10 years if they don't.

A bit harsh but definitely true. What foreigners do that's visible to everyone will have more of an effect that invisible actions.

There will always be be someone overstaying for whatever reason, let's face it, stricter laws or not.

Would love to see a breakdown of over-stayers by country.

[brewsterbudgen]

sjaak327

How was the Loa "partner" caught if there was only a few days overstay and how was the overstay discovered in the absence of the passport?

The "theft" of the passport was immediately reported to the police ? .....Was it ?

An Emergency travel document could have been issued as soon as the Embassy opened and most Embassy's will issue such documents out of hours in emergency situations.

Sounds like smoke being blown ...........................

Where did I claim he was caught ? I claimed he was on an overstay, which he was, are you calling me a liar now ? And no, we tried to contact the embassy and weren't able to, a bit hard to be issued that emergency document when nobody answers either the door or the phone.

The emergency document was issued on the first day they re-opened, by which time the overstay was three days. He wasn't even charged an overstay fine, but that is not the point, the point is there are plenty of reasons people are on overstay that is beyond their control.

By the way it is a Lao Partner, and has been for the past eleven years, so "partner" is not necessary.

There will be thousands of Lao partners affected by this, if it does come in. Up to now overstayers returning to Laos have only had to pay a minimal fine and allowed to leave. As border runs have been suspended/stopped, they will now have little alternative but to overstay if they want to remain with their family in Thailand.

[MobileContent]

sjaak327 - You mentioned - No the laws for overstaying in Thailand have never been lax. Yes there was a way to get out with only a fine (up until 20K baht) but only if you made it to the border or airport without being caught on overstay at random passport checks anywhere in the country.If you are caught on overstay before reaching the border, you have a high chance to be detained and deported from the country, unless you are lucky and are offered to pay tea money to stay out of the police cell and ultimately the IDC.No such worries currently exist in Cambodia any more than in Laos.Are you seriously supporting a law where some tourist would face deportation and a five year ban from the country on something so trivial as a one day overstay, just because that tourist was caught before he could reach the airport ? The airport where he would receive an overstay stamp but no fine at all for the exact same offence ?

Who says that one day overstay will get you banned for 1 or 5 years?

I had experience with the IDC in the past but also have to say that many of those peoples arrested on overstay or having no passport deserved it. Behind every overstay is a story of course as everyone has a different reason, normally involving the their Thai GF or wife steal their passport and call the police, some burn the money on bargirls or some just run out of money and got court because their were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

As for me, my farang business partner stole my passport and reported me to the police. I was in IDC almost one month as I refused to sign the court papers and to save my assets in Thailand. As my passport was never never given back my embassy issued me a Travel Document when I finally agreed to return to Germany.

I went to court for illegal entry and was deported. The German that died was an alcoholic and as far as I remember another one died as well. Also in Singapore no one dies in detention but for this a lot of foreigners are dying in Malaysia and Indonesia.

I still believe overstay laws are to lax in Thailand and the one month in IDC was an eye opener for me but Thai jails are not European jails and people die. Any one that can't handle IDC should never become overstay and not burn all the money on some woman and get broke and have proper insurance during their stay.

Edited October 28, 2015 by MobileContent

[MobileContent]

sjaak327

How was the Loa "partner" caught if there was only a few days overstay and how was the overstay discovered in the absence of the passport?

The "theft" of the passport was immediately reported to the police ? .....Was it ?

An Emergency travel document could have been issued as soon as the Embassy opened and most Embassy's will issue such documents out of hours in emergency situations.

Sounds like smoke being blown ...........................

Where did I claim he was caught ? I claimed he was on an overstay, which he was, are you calling me a liar now ? And no, we tried to contact the embassy and weren't able to, a bit hard to be issued that emergency document when nobody answers either the door or the phone.

The emergency document was issued on the first day they re-opened, by which time the overstay was three days. He wasn't even charged an overstay fine, but that is not the point, the point is there are plenty of reasons people are on overstay that is beyond their control.

By the way it is a Lao Partner, and has been for the past eleven years, so "partner" is not necessary.

There will be thousands of Lao partners affected by this, if it does come in. Up to now overstayers returning to Laos have only had to pay a minimal fine and allowed to leave. As border runs have been suspended/stopped, they will now have little alternative but to overstay if they want to remain with their family in Thailand.

In our village we have two Lao woman married to a Thai and they are legally permitted to stay in Thailand. Why would they all need to go back to Laos?

[brewsterbudgen]

sjaak327

How was the Loa "partner" caught if there was only a few days overstay and how was the overstay discovered in the absence of the passport?

The "theft" of the passport was immediately reported to the police ? .....Was it ?

An Emergency travel document could have been issued as soon as the Embassy opened and most Embassy's will issue such documents out of hours in emergency situations.

Sounds like smoke being blown ...........................

Where did I claim he was caught ? I claimed he was on an overstay, which he was, are you calling me a liar now ? And no, we tried to contact the embassy and weren't able to, a bit hard to be issued that emergency document when nobody answers either the door or the phone.

The emergency document was issued on the first day they re-opened, by which time the overstay was three days. He wasn't even charged an overstay fine, but that is not the point, the point is there are plenty of reasons people are on overstay that is beyond their control.

By the way it is a Lao Partner, and has been for the past eleven years, so "partner" is not necessary.

There will be thousands of Lao partners affected by this, if it does come in. Up to now overstayers returning to Laos have only had to pay a minimal fine and allowed to leave. As border runs have been suspended/stopped, they will now have little alternative but to overstay if they want to remain with their family in Thailand.

In our village we have two Lao woman married to a Thai and they are legally permitted to stay in Thailand. Why would they all need to go back to Laos?

Because not all are legally married.