Koh Tao Murders: Defense Asks Court to Drop Charges

[StealthEnergiser]

Got any links Boomerangutang? Would like to take a look.

It's on the Daily Mail, and if you read the article you would see that, once again, Boomerangutang has no qualms whatsoever to make things up; nowhere in that article is it even suggested that their parents are trying to find out if she was murdered or even that they suspect any foul play, in fact they quote the mother as saying that she died of natural causes.

Pretty bold statement to allege about making things up. Quite a shameful comment...

I have to agree with you fritzzz a disgraceful and unneccesary comment that can certainly get posters seeking justice upset.

[DiscoDan]

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story , I wonder how many more times the B2 have been caught telling porkies like this.

“The police asked if that was me in the picture and I said no. I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage, and the person they were pointing wasn’t me and was wearing white shorts,” said Wei Phyo. “But when I denied it they punched me.

http://www.edp24.co....nfess_1_4266487

We know the above statement is a lie as he already admitted giving his black shirt to MM and this is confirmed with cctv footage.

[boomerangutang]

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story , I wonder how many more times the B2 have been caught telling porkies like this.

“The police asked if that was me in the picture and I said no. I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage, and the person they were pointing wasn’t me and was wearing white shorts,” said Wei Phyo. “But when I denied it they punched me.

http://www.edp24.co....nfess_1_4266487

We know the above statement is a lie as he already admitted giving his black shirt to MM and this is confirmed with cctv footage.

It's ironic that Thai officialdom don't believe many things the B2 say (for example: "we weren't involved in the crime"), yet they find some little thing ("found a phone on a beach" or "wearing a black top...") and they cling on to that as if it's an admission of guilt.

RTP take cherry picking to the 10th degree. What does it really matter what color shirt the kid was wearing that night? We're looking for who really committed the crime, and want to see them brought to trial.

If someone wants to find lies, there's a wealth of lies being told by RTP and Mon and his tough-guy buddies. If you want apples, go to an apple orchard in season, don't go to an empty sand lot.

Edited October 30, 2015 by boomerangutang

[HUH]

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story , I wonder how many more times the B2 have been caught telling porkies like this.

“The police asked if that was me in the picture and I said no. I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage, and the person they were pointing wasn’t me and was wearing white shorts,” said Wei Phyo. “But when I denied it they punched me.

http://www.edp24.co....nfess_1_4266487

We know the above statement is a lie as he already admitted giving his black shirt to MM and this is confirmed with cctv footage.

How do you know they he's not telling the truth? What cctv footage were they were referring to in the court? Without knowing that then its impossible to tell. Were you there? You are aware the court has had access to far more footage than has been released to the public. Such as footage of WP with no top on and his jeans on buying cigarettes.

By the way, the prosecution side of the story is finished and they didn't even bother to submit a closing statement so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for further information from them.

Edited October 30, 2015 by HUH

[ttthailand]

I just wonder if the British report will be released to the public after December 24th. It would make interesting reading

[CharlieH]

AleG & Boomerangutang

"Back off" each other or face suspension until the verdict is announced.

[boomerangutang]

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story....

You might have to wait a long time. They declared they're not going to submit a closing statements to the judge. Is this common? Is this rude? Have they seen the vacuity of their case and just thrown their hands up as if to say, "whatever, dudes. We did what RTP told us to do. It went over like a lead balloon. Let's not make it worse with a closing statement. It's going to go to appeals anyway, so why waste the calories with writing and submitting a closing statement. If it appears rude to the court, what the heck."

[IslandLover]

DiscoDan, on 30 Oct 2015 - 05:46, said:DiscoDan, on 30 Oct 2015 - 05:46, said:

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story , I wonder how many more times the B2 have been caught telling porkies like this.

“The police asked if that was me in the picture and I said no. I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage, and the person they were pointing wasn’t me and was wearing white shorts,” said Wei Phyo. “But when I denied it they punched me.

http://www.edp24.co....nfess_1_4266487

We know the above statement is a lie as he already admitted giving his black shirt to MM and this is confirmed with cctv footage.

I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage

But it's not a lie is it? He WAS seen in long trousers and a black top in earlier CCTV footage. The fact that Maung Maung ended up with Wei Phyo's black shirt is irrelevant. Wei Phyo was subsequently seen in CCTV footage still wearing the long black trousers, but with MM's AC2 t-shirt (at one point it was slung over his shoulders and in another CCTV image he was actually wearing it). This footage has never been released to the public but it was shown in court, according to sources who were inside the courtroom during the trial.

Edited October 30, 2015 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

boomerangutang, on 30 Oct 2015 - 12:56, said:

DiscoDan, on 30 Oct 2015 - 05:46, said:

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story....

You might have to wait a long time. They declared they're not going to submit a closing statements to the judge. Is this common? Is this rude? Have they seen the vacuity of their case and just thrown their hands up as if to say, "whatever, dudes. We did what RTP told us to do. It went over like a lead balloon. Let's not make it worse with a closing statement. It's going to go to appeals anyway, so why waste the calories with writing and submitting a closing statement. If it appears rude to the court, what the heck."

The prosecution's side of the story, at least in court, seemed to consist of nothing more than "I don't know", and all evidence implicating the B2 is either "lost" (cigarette butts, Hannah's clothing, etc.) or "used up" (DNA). As Boomer rightly points out, since the prosecution hasn't even bothered to submit a closing statement we may never know what their side of the story is.

[BritTim]

This is not about me, it's also not about you and your need to play "Internet sleuth", what the families of Hannah Witheridge had to say about you and what you are doing is this:

"Witheridge’s family said they were united in grief with Miller’s loved ones. They said: “Hannah was a beautiful person, inside and out, she brought a room alive just being there. She was fun, honest and loved life.

“Her bright future was brutally ended leaving those who loved her broken with no answers. Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah’s friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear."

I would be a lot less charitable than them on seen people like you using a tragedy as a stage on which to play your games.

Fwiiw, I think the "speculation, rumour and theory" bit was mostly motivated by posts made on Hannah Witheridge's Facebook page in the days following the murders. They included an anonymous eye witness account that Hannah and David were attacked shortly after leaving AC Bar. No one can say whether this was true, but I am sure the Witheridge's family's Home Office minder told them to discount these posts. I can understand why they would have been extremely upset reading such posts among the tributes to Hannah they wanted to read.

[BritTim]

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story....

You might have to wait a long time. They declared they're not going to submit a closing statements to the judge. Is this common? Is this rude? Have they seen the vacuity of their case and just thrown their hands up as if to say, "whatever, dudes. We did what RTP told us to do. It went over like a lead balloon. Let's not make it worse with a closing statement. It's going to go to appeals anyway, so why waste the calories with writing and submitting a closing statement. If it appears rude to the court, what the heck."

My biggest fear is that they just want to leave the judges free to construct their own prosecution case which, once it is presented as part of the verdict, cannot be criticized by the media in this country. Any prosecution closing statement would be torn to shreds and make the judges' job more difficult if the intent is to convict.

[DiscoDan]

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story....

You might have to wait a long time. They declared they're not going to submit a closing statements to the judge. Is this common? Is this rude? Have they seen the vacuity of their case and just thrown their hands up as if to say, "whatever, dudes. We did what RTP told us to do. It went over like a lead balloon. Let's not make it worse with a closing statement. It's going to go to appeals anyway, so why waste the calories with writing and submitting a closing statement. If it appears rude to the court, what the heck."

Well we find out more of what happened when the judges reach there verdict as they have to make a report,

As we know the defense likes to keep secrets from the public, Andy hall admitted himself that on the 23rd sept evidence shown to him in court confirmed a match from Davids computer to his phone, but this info was never came out till the last day in court when the translation was given, So I know for a FACT we are not getting all the information.

Andy Hall What's more, regarding the evidence from David's family, this evidence was first presented to me during my testimony on 23rd September,Sarah Yuen reporting for Sky News and other has been misunderstood that she reported it came to court on Sunday last minute before close of trial, what came to court was an official translation of a document previously submitted on 23rd September. The evidence was presented to me as a witness during my cross examination

[DiscoDan]

DiscoDan, on 30 Oct 2015 - 05:46, said:DiscoDan, on 30 Oct 2015 - 05:46, said:

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story , I wonder how many more times the B2 have been caught telling porkies like this.

“The police asked if that was me in the picture and I said no. I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage, and the person they were pointing wasn’t me and was wearing white shorts,” said Wei Phyo. “But when I denied it they punched me.

http://www.edp24.co....nfess_1_4266487

We know the above statement is a lie as he already admitted giving his black shirt to MM and this is confirmed with cctv footage.

I was wearing a black top and long trousers that night, as seen in earlier CCTV footage

But it's not a lie is it? He WAS seen in long trousers and a black top in earlier CCTV footage. The fact that Maung Maung ended up with Wei Phyo's black shirt is irrelevant. Wei Phyo was subsequently seen in CCTV footage still wearing the long black trousers, but with MM's AC2 t-shirt (at one point it was slung over his shoulders and in another CCTV image he was actually wearing it). This footage has never been released to the public but it was shown in court, according to sources who were inside the courtroom during the trial.

Yes he was but he later on admitted giving his shirt to MM because apparently he was cold, MM claims he went to see his Girlfriend and is seen at about 2am wearing MM black tshirt on cctv, the running man video is after this so how has he managed to get his shirt back ? He also claims he lost his clothes swimming, but then there alibi always changes for nearly a year we was told that the B2 went to bed at 2am and at 5am there friend them sound asleep, well that was also a LIE as we now know that at least WP was on the beach at 4am around the time of the murders.

[smedly]

boomerangutang, on 30 Oct 2015 - 12:56, said:

DiscoDan, on 30 Oct 2015 - 05:46, said:

Looking forward to hearing the prosecutions side of the story....

You might have to wait a long time. They declared they're not going to submit a closing statements to the judge. Is this common? Is this rude? Have they seen the vacuity of their case and just thrown their hands up as if to say, "whatever, dudes. We did what RTP told us to do. It went over like a lead balloon. Let's not make it worse with a closing statement. It's going to go to appeals anyway, so why waste the calories with writing and submitting a closing statement. If it appears rude to the court, what the heck."

The prosecution's side of the story, at least in court, seemed to consist of nothing more than "I don't know", and all evidence implicating the B2 is either "lost" (cigarette butts, Hannah's clothing, etc.) or "used up" (DNA). As Boomer rightly points out, since the prosecution hasn't even bothered to submit a closing statement we may never know what their side of the story is.

The DNA from Hannah could of been tested but the defense turned it down they also failed to discredit this evidence in court, Robert Holmes who is a lawyer and was in the court wrote the following comment on Andy Halls facebook page.

Robert Holmes The problem with the DNA evidence retrieved from the victim is that the prosecution have presented the court with evidence that the DNA

from the accused matches the DNA retrieved from the victim. The onus is then on the defence to cross examine the

forensic scientists who analysed the samples and to call evidence from an expert as to the international standard universally applied for the proper analysis of such samples. In my opinion that has not been done and if there is a conviction it will be because of that. There's plenty of doubt but the fact remains there is a DNA analysis report on the court record and the judges have to get their

collective heads around the fact that it shows a match....that evidence needed to be strongly contested and in my view it hasn't been.The

prosecution will rely on

that, mark my words.The evidence of Khun ying Pornthip does not negate the alleged DNA match....This whole case revolves around that. In any other competent jurisdiction the defence would have vigorously cross examined the prosecution forensic witnesses as to their procedures and would have required them to produce their case notes and all other relevant documentation. This simply has not happened in this case.

well here I am repeating myself

DNA evidence is "Physical Evidence" you simply cannot just claim there is a match without actually having the Original Samples which in turn should be provided to the defense so (if they wish) they can have it retested and confirmed in an approved lab recognized by the court. It is then up to the defense whether or not to disclose those results - not the police or the court

It's a bit like prosecution saying they have a ballistic match to a murder weapon but are unable to produce the weapon or link it to the crime, it becomes total nonsense and hearsay

There are exceptions to this were the police think that the DNA will be "exhausted" because samples are so small, in that case the defense must be fully engaged in the testing process

In this case it is highly unlikely (if not impossible) that original samples taken internally from the victim would have been exhausted, the source for these samples would have been huge by DNA standards

Not even going to get into the "chain of custody" - look it up

[stephenterry]

So around. 4_4.30 both wp and mm were wandering around the beach in pitch black darkness looking for the guitar and clothes but found a phone instead. And presumably heard nothing at the time the crimes were committed. If this is true the crimes were committed earlier, possibly around 3. Now h friends said. H and d left the AC bar between 3&4.

[Eirene]

So around. 4_4.30 both wp and mm were wandering around the beach in pitch black darkness looking for the guitar and clothes but found a phone instead. And presumably heard nothing at the time the crimes were committed. If this is true the crimes were committed earlier, possibly around 3. Now h friends said. H and d left the AC bar between 3&4.

We have the running man first appearing at 3:44am then re-appearing about an hour later. The estimated time of death was between 4:00am and 5:30am. So it seems it should be earlier.

[DiscoDan]

So if we are to believe there alibi MM was so cold he needed to wear WP shirt but it was not cold enough for them to go for a swim and fall asleep in wet clothes ?

He found an Iphone but didn't want it because it had a flat battery. (yes my friend gave me his ferrari he said he didn't want it as it had an empty fuel tank)

Then claims he gave it to his friend because his friend gave him tips.

They could of given the phone to the police but instead destroyed important evidence.

In the defenses closing statement it also admits that WP stole the phone and didn't find it.

4) The DNA evidence allegedly matching the accused as well as all surrounding or circumstantial evidence in this case apparently showing the guilt of the accused is unreliable and should be inadmissible and not considered by the Court. All of this evidence was not collected, tested or analysed in accordance with internationally accepted standards such as ISO 17025. This evidence should not be considered as satisfying beyond reasonable doubt that the accused violently raped and murdered the female deceased or murdered the male deceased. This includes all evidence linking the accused to the alleged crime scene such as cigarette butts, theft of the male deceased’s mobile phone and sunglasses as well as a ‘running man’ caught on CCTV.

[Briggsy]

I wonder if the lack of a closing statement is related to differing viewpoints between those of the police and the Public Prosecutor. Public Prosecutor sent the case back to the police several times. PP has now fulfilled their required role in the pantomime (and presumably been rewarded somehow).

It should be noted that for a Public Prosecutor to fail to get a conviction in a murder case is seen as a career-damaging event.

[KamalaRider]

I wonder if the lack of a closing statement is related to differing viewpoints between those of the police and the Public Prosecutor. Public Prosecutor sent the case back to the police several times. PP has now fulfilled their required role in the pantomime (and presumably been rewarded somehow).

It should be noted that for a Public Prosecutor to fail to get a conviction in a murder case is seen as a career-damaging event.

Sometimes a prosecutor simply haven't binding evidence but still just want to test a case because of many circumstantial evidence and timeline seems plausible, not stating that it imply in this case.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, here in Thailand, if a person accused of murder and the case is dropped, he can still be prosecuted again.

[cdnvic]

Posts containing insults removed. Also, if you are going to report a post, just do it quietly. Don't announce you are about to do it in public as this just inflames the situation and sets you up for possible sanction just like the person you are reporting.

[Briggsy]

I wonder if the lack of a closing statement is related to differing viewpoints between those of the police and the Public Prosecutor. Public Prosecutor sent the case back to the police several times. PP has now fulfilled their required role in the pantomime (and presumably been rewarded somehow).

It should be noted that for a Public Prosecutor to fail to get a conviction in a murder case is seen as a career-damaging event.

Sometimes a prosecutor simply haven't binding evidence but still just want to test a case because of many circumstantial evidence and timeline seems plausible, not stating that it imply in this case.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, here in Thailand, if a person accused of murder and the case is dropped, he can still be prosecuted again.

In the West, yes, sometimes prosecutors go to court knowing that securing a conviction will be difficult, if not impossible.

However in Thailand the system is very different. Thai prosecutors expect to secure guilty verdicts in every case. Failure to secure a guilty verdict officially puts career progression on hold and is seen as a definite black mark against the prosecutor. This is completely different from the public prosecution systems in the West. Guilty convictions (98.4%) Acquittals (0.7%) Withdrawn cases (0.9%).

So, I am wondering what the Prosecutor is saying by not submitting a closing statement.

[stephenterry]

I wonder if the lack of a closing statement is related to differing viewpoints between those of the police and the Public Prosecutor. Public Prosecutor sent the case back to the police several times. PP has now fulfilled their required role in the pantomime (and presumably been rewarded somehow).

It should be noted that for a Public Prosecutor to fail to get a conviction in a murder case is seen as a career-damaging event.

Sometimes a prosecutor simply haven't binding evidence but still just want to test a case because of many circumstantial evidence and timeline seems plausible, not stating that it imply in this case.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, here in Thailand, if a person accused of murder and the case is dropped, he can still be prosecuted again.

In the West, yes, sometimes prosecutors go to court knowing that securing a conviction will be difficult, if not impossible.

However in Thailand the system is very different. Thai prosecutors expect to secure guilty verdicts in every case. Failure to secure a guilty verdict officially puts career progression on hold and is seen as a definite black mark against the prosecutor. This is completely different from the public prosecution systems in the West. Guilty convictions (98.4%) Acquittals (0.7%) Withdrawn cases (0.9%).

So, I am wondering what the Prosecutor is saying by not submitting a closing statement.

If your stats are factual, he will rely on the 98.4% guilty conviction rate.

[Briggsy]

Or is the Prosecutor saying, "My hands are tied. If the verdict is not guilty, do not punish me. I was forced to take the case."

[StealthEnergiser]

Holes in the Koh Tao case demand acquittal

October 31, 2015 1:00 am

The police have clearly failed to show that the two Myanmar suspects are guilty of the rape/murder of two Britons on Koh Tao. This has fed widespread concern that the suspects are scapegoats.

It is undisputed that:

- The prosecution's key evidence against the suspects - DNA from the female victim's body - has still not been shared with the defence for independent checking.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Holes-in-the-Koh-Tao-case-demand-acquittal-30271947.html

[StealthEnergiser]

also from the above article

The police lab that carried out the DNA test has a major conflict of interest in a case brought by the cops, and is not certified to meet the international standard for analysis.

- Section 134/1 of the Thai Criminal Code states that the accused must be informed of right to counsel before interrogation, and other any statement made is inadmissible in court. This invalidates the "confessions" produced by the prosecution. The defendants may well be guilty, but not on the basis of the evidence submitted.

Again, Thailand's image as a country adhering to rule of law will be best served by showing that justice has been done on an individual basis. In this case, the defendants' guilt has not been proved beyond reasonable doubt and they must be acquitted.

Burin Kantabutra

[AGareth2]

I want to come back to the hoe

David and Hannah's DNA were matched on the handle

we have other DNA

if this could be extracted and identified then we have some more suspects

[HUH]

I want to come back to the hoe

David and Hannah's DNA were matched on the handle

we have other DNA

if this could be extracted and identified then we have some more suspects

Yes and I also think the hair is never going to go away as much as the prosecution would want it to.

They were using this mysterious blonde hair to match to suspects early on in the case but since then?? Where is it? who does it belong to? The real killer? (for sure)

A British man has become the prime suspect for the murder of two British tourists and his arrest is imminent, a senior Thai police officer told The Telegraph on Wednesday.

Prachum Ruangthong, the head of police on the Thai island of Koh Tao where the murder took place, said he believed a British man was the likely killer of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

Police would have closed the case by the end of the day once DNA testing on samples of hair found in Ms Witheridge's hand were concluded, he added.

"After this evening everything will become clear." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11100980/British-man-prime-suspect-in-Thailand-murder.html

[stephenterry]

Clearly not.

[Mises]

Re time of death.

Whilst the time of death of Hannah is not known it might be possible to arrive at a more precise time of when she was bludgeoned using the crime scene photos.

Hannah was already dead or unconscious when bludgeoned. You can’t hit a moving target dead centre with a heavy hoe. And she would have defended herself with her hands. She was not held down, how do you hold someone whilst another strikes her face with a hoe without being in the way and how do you hold their head straight? In any event she could not have been held down from the side as the rocks are too close.

High tide was around 02:19am (1.55m) and low tide 07:33am (1.22m) on Monday 15/09/2014. This is only a 330mm! (13”) tide which won’t help but Hannah’s feet and lower left leg were in the water but not her elbows.

So observation of the crime scene on a similar tide might give a much more precise time than has been speculated to date.

[IslandLover]

Briggsy, on 31 Oct 2015 - 04:42, said:Briggsy, on 31 Oct 2015 - 04:42, said:

I wonder if the lack of a closing statement is related to differing viewpoints between those of the police and the Public Prosecutor. Public Prosecutor sent the case back to the police several times. PP has now fulfilled their required role in the pantomime (and presumably been rewarded somehow).

It should be noted that for a Public Prosecutor to fail to get a conviction in a murder case is seen as a career-damaging event.

It should be noted that for a Public Prosecutor to fail to get a conviction in a murder case is seen as a career-damaging event.

It might be more than just career-damaging. The previous one got conveniently bumped off just before the trial started, didn't he?

Edited October 31, 2015 by IslandLover