METV: I'm confused

[AYJAYDEE]

It may well be that some embassies/consulates will issue the METV to retirees.

If not they are only affected by having to buy two SETV's instead of one METV. The second SETV could easily be obtained on the compulsory exit to a neighbouring country.

assuming that exit has that facility. and why may it well be?

[monk213]

I personally would like to see a visa for under 50s who can show proof of income outside of Thailand i.e. these digital nomads that the elders seem to hate, because honestly there are many of them and they of the most part cause no harm to this place. They work and source clients outside of the country and bring money in; it could be web design, graphic design and so forth. Why has this visa never been processed or even considered by the people at the top..

If such a visa was produced the DN would not want it as they "wish to be free" of government and officialdom !

However, I would be interesting if a minimum provable income of say 80,000 Bht / month was demand as a requirement for a "DN visa" . Would the take up be overwhelming ?

I would estimate that this would be of no problem for many DN, but I have thought on the subject and it would most likely be difficult for Thailand to enforce the taxes and everything else that come with it.. So they are better off just letting things be the way they are now I guess..

[BritTim]

I would estimate that this would be of no problem for many DN, but I have thought on the subject and it would most likely be difficult for Thailand to enforce the taxes and everything else that come with it.. So they are better off just letting things be the way they are now I guess..

One creative solution that has occurred to me:

How about unlimited 90-day extensions at 20,000 baht a time for those who do not qualify for extensions on other grounds? No other paperwork would be needed. For those that are somewhat affluent, this kind of no hassle extension would be attractive, I think.

If the original entry was visa exempt, or on a visa that does not allow working, then work inside Thailand would still technically not be permitted, but there would be little incentive to go after digital nomads or, indeed, others that are not creating trouble.

[notmyself]

Have a friend coming over end of November and he asked me to speak to a consulate in the UK that I shall not name. So I spoke to a lady I know at the un-named consulate and she says the rules being talked about are what she called 'total rules'. What she meant by that is that not consulates/ Embassies will enforce the same rules or procedures but rather a selection from the 'total rules' list. We see that even now with places such as Jakarta requiring untold tickets in and out while others require nothing of the sort. All can offer triple entry but some do not is another example. Some require proof of residency while others simply require that the return address is in the same country. Some (Finland I think is one) will only issue to holders of a Finnish passport but they don't care about where you reside.

Anyway.... she says that G7 countries and likely all of Europe will not be required to enforce the financial rule, though they obviously can if they wish.

[JackThompson]

If such a visa was produced the DN would not want it as they "wish to be free" of government and officialdom !

However, I would be interesting if a minimum provable income of say 80,000 Bht / month was demand as a requirement for a "DN visa" . Would the take up be overwhelming ?

I would estimate that this would be of no problem for many DN, but I have thought on the subject and it would most likely be difficult for Thailand to enforce the taxes and everything else that come with it.. So they are better off just letting things be the way they are now I guess..

Not all DNs fall into the anti-statist category. Those who do would stay no more than ~150 days in any country/yr, to avoid any possible 'resident' label. Those people could do an Exempt + SETV / yr and be fine. Many just prefer a lower cost-of-living in a nicer place than home, wish to stay year-round, and would be happy to pay more in visa-fees.

If Thailand required a min-salary for a B-visa of this sort, and required taxes on that min-salary, and bank-statements showing the money entered Thailand, they could tax this portion of a DN's overseas income. But Thailand does not charge its citizens tax on overseas-derived income (the USA is the only nation that does), so this would fall afoul of the courts.

A better solution, is a single visa-category for all foreigners who do not have a Thai employer or customers. Qualification: "bring in X / mo - documented" and "pay X / mo fee" for the visa. In other words, substitute "visa-fee" for "tax," and set the fee to something reasonable - say 30K Baht/yr. This would allow Thailand to dispense with the age-50 clause and export what they consider "low quality" foreigners, of all ages, including those working as low-paid English teachers (ensuring no Thai will endeavour to qualify for this profession).

The METV's restrictions, from my perspective, seem to be a step in this direction - using a "consistent minimum bank-balance" for the income-measurement. The problem is the same as with the existing retirement-visa scheme; it allows "low quality" (read: "low-spending") foreigners to stay, simply by not touching a sum in the bank (which may be derived from a line of credit) - and the fee is too low to replace the equivalent taxes. I would be happy to pay triple the METV fee, for less hassle - even with exits every 60-days.

Edited November 4, 2015 by JackThompson

[ParadiseLost]

One adverse affect I can think of is caused by the difference in earning potential (of DN). Property prices are being inflated way beyond the Thai middle income earners. Before you say foreigners cannot own property just think how many are bought through companies, wifes name etc.

Also, many (Thai) properties are being listed on Airbnb with foreign 'hosts'. This is not a level playing ground as there is no tax paid to the government by these guys while a Thai national is liable and cannot simply ignore the tax aspect. All are breaking WP rules. Flaunting the laws of the country while claiming to offer so much benefit...

Lets be honest, for all the talk about 'benefits' to Thailand, DNs only seek to benefit themselves and they should be referred to as TD instead - Tax Dodgers.

[notmyself]

Before you say foreigners cannot own property just think how many are bought through companies, wifes name etc.

Property ownership is not at issue.

[JackThompson]

One adverse affect I can think of is caused by the difference in earning potential (of DN). Property prices are being inflated way beyond the Thai middle income earners. Before you say foreigners cannot own property just think how many are bought through companies, wifes name etc.

Also, many (Thai) properties are being listed on Airbnb with foreign 'hosts'. This is not a level playing ground as there is no tax paid to the government by these guys while a Thai national is liable and cannot simply ignore the tax aspect. All are breaking WP rules. Flaunting the laws of the country while claiming to offer so much benefit...

Lets be honest, for all the talk about 'benefits' to Thailand, DNs only seek to benefit themselves and they should be referred to as TD instead - Tax Dodgers.

Thais earning money in the same global-marketplace - earning off-shore incomes - also avoid taxes, legally. There is no sensible way to regulate what a person does on their computer with foreign entities, so the ideal solution is to use a fee system, rather than tax-system, to collect their contributions to support local infrastructure / government.

And while companies can own land, those companies are 51% Thai. As an American, I could create a self-owned "Treaty of Amity" company, but that entity cannot own land here. A "wife's name" property belongs to her; many divorced-expats can tell you about how that works out. YMMV. In restricted areas (Pattaya and Phuket), a 10M Baht total-investment in Thailand (govt-bonds, etc) can qualify for the purchase of 1 Rai max. Though I agree with your analysis on prices, generally, I do not foresee Thailand blocking foreign-investment for development, which creates jobs, generates taxes on rental-income, etc.

When it comes to supporting Thai infrastructure, I cannot logically differentiate between DNs not paying taxes, and retirees not paying taxes. Nor can I differentiate between "low-quality tourists" and "low-quality retirees" vis-a-vis their effect on Thailand. Consider that the median (not minimum) monthly-income of American social-security retirees is under 47,000 Baht. Many who retire overseas do so because their benefit is that amount or less, and it is the only path to live in a clean, low-crime environment.

The question is, what foreign-income makes for a "quality" foreigner, of any stripe? I would say 40K/mo, shown as transferred into Thailand from overseas, would ensure a solid benefit to the Thai economy, and prevent the impoverished and/or those taking Thai jobs, from qualifying with the "bank balance" measurement. A substantial immigration-fee could more than cancel out any "tax-unfairness" issue - also benefitting Thailand.

[elviajero]

I personally would like to see a visa for under 50s who can show proof of income outside of Thailand i.e. these digital nomads that the elders seem to hate, because honestly there are many of them and they of the most part cause no harm to this place. They work and source clients outside of the country and bring money in; it could be web design, graphic design and so forth. Why has this visa never been processed or even considered by the people at the top..

If such a visa was produced the DN would not want it as they "wish to be free" of government and officialdom !

However, I would be interesting if a minimum provable income of say 80,000 Bht / month was demand as a requirement for a "DN visa" . Would the take up be overwhelming ?

I would estimate that this would be of no problem for many DN, but I have thought on the subject and it would most likely be difficult for Thailand to enforce the taxes and everything else that come with it.. So they are better off just letting things be the way they are now I guess..

For Thailand to legalise DN's and other remote workers it would involve requirements of minimum income, proof of legally registered businesses, taxation etc. Some could comply, but others couldn't or wouldn't want to resulting in many continuing to operate their businesses illegally.

IMO Thailand will not cater specifically to this minority because it's simply not worth it.

[oncearugge]

One adverse affect I can think of is caused by the difference in earning potential (of DN). Property prices are being inflated way beyond the Thai middle income earners. Before you say foreigners cannot own property just think how many are bought through companies, wifes name etc.

Also, many (Thai) properties are being listed on Airbnb with foreign 'hosts'. This is not a level playing ground as there is no tax paid to the government by these guys while a Thai national is liable and cannot simply ignore the tax aspect. All are breaking WP rules. Flaunting the laws of the country while claiming to offer so much benefit...

Lets be honest, for all the talk about 'benefits' to Thailand, DNs only seek to benefit themselves and they should be referred to as TD instead - Tax Dodgers.

Thais earning money in the same global-marketplace - earning off-shore incomes - also avoid taxes, legally. There is no sensible way to regulate what a person does on their computer with foreign entities, so the ideal solution is to use a fee system, rather than tax-system, to collect their contributions to support local infrastructure / government.

And while companies can own land, those companies are 51% Thai. As an American, I could create a self-owned "Treaty of Amity" company, but that entity cannot own land here. A "wife's name" property belongs to her; many divorced-expats can tell you about how that works out. YMMV. In restricted areas (Pattaya and Phuket), a 10M Baht total-investment in Thailand (govt-bonds, etc) can qualify for the purchase of 1 Rai max. Though I agree with your analysis on prices, generally, I do not foresee Thailand blocking foreign-investment for development, which creates jobs, generates taxes on rental-income, etc.

When it comes to supporting Thai infrastructure, I cannot logically differentiate between DNs not paying taxes, and retirees not paying taxes. Nor can I differentiate between "low-quality tourists" and "low-quality retirees" vis-a-vis their effect on Thailand. Consider that the median (not minimum) monthly-income of American social-security retirees is under 47,000 Baht. Many who retire overseas do so because their benefit is that amount or less, and it is the only path to live in a clean, low-crime environment.

The question is, what foreign-income makes for a "quality" foreigner, of any stripe? I would say 40K/mo, shown as transferred into Thailand from overseas, would ensure a solid benefit to the Thai economy, and prevent the impoverished and/or those taking Thai jobs, from qualifying with the "bank balance" measurement. A substantial immigration-fee could more than cancel out any "tax-unfairness" issue - also benefitting Thailand.

Many (most?) retirees DO pay tax if their income derives from their country of origin.

Many countries have "Double Taxation Treaties" agreed with Thailand which avoids the risk of a person having to pay tax in two countries.

Furthermore retirees (and others) cannot avoid paying VAT(sales tax) and other forms of indirect taxation.

[ParadiseLost]

In restricted areas (Pattaya and Phuket), a 10M Baht total-investment in Thailand (govt-bonds, etc) can qualify for the purchase of 1 Rai max. Though I agree with your analysis on prices, generally, I do not foresee Thailand blocking foreign-investment for development, which creates jobs, generates taxes on rental-income, etc.

This I agree with - foreign investment is important. However the DN does not fall into this category as they are not investors but rather mercenaries. The little they spend here is not benefitting the country enough to offset the negative aspects, such as harboring fugitives, or dishonest people who are happy to break laws which do not suit them.

If you do not qualify for a work permit then you cannot work. Bemoaning the system does not change anything, it is what it is and either you conform or leave.

You know - FIFO. Fit In or F Off.

The question is, what foreign-income makes for a "quality" foreigner, of any stripe? I would say 40K/mo, shown as transferred into Thailand from overseas, would ensure a solid benefit to the Thai economy, and prevent the impoverished and/or those taking Thai jobs, from qualifying with the "bank balance" measurement. A substantial immigration-fee could more than cancel out any "tax-unfairness" issue - also benefitting Thailand.

Money is not a good indication of character, especially in this part of the world which seems to attract the most corrupt!

Many of the well healed players in this place (especially Russian) are throwing dirty money around. Look how easy it is to get in - no real security checks and now some want to make it easier to get a long term stay? Pensioners and married men are less likely to be problematic hence the visa provisions.

The biggest travesty by far is that married men are unable to work. That is just plain ignorant. And before you jump in and say you can, I mean the stupid "list of professions restricted to Thai nationals" so no, you can't.

Edited November 4, 2015 by ParadiseLost

[oncearugge]

In restricted areas (Pattaya and Phuket), a 10M Baht total-investment in Thailand (govt-bonds, etc) can qualify for the purchase of 1 Rai max. Though I agree with your analysis on prices, generally, I do not foresee Thailand blocking foreign-investment for development, which creates jobs, generates taxes on rental-income, etc.

This I agree with - foreign investment is important. However the DN does not fall into this category as they are not investors but rather mercenaries. The little they spend here is not benefitting the country enough to offset the negative aspects, such as harboring fugitives, or dishonest people who are happy to break laws which do not suit them.

If you do not qualify for a work permit then you cannot work. Bemoaning the system does not change anything, it is what it is and either you conform or leave.

You know - FIFO. Fit in or F Off.

The question is, what foreign-income makes for a "quality" foreigner, of any stripe? I would say 40K/mo, shown as transferred into Thailand from overseas, would ensure a solid benefit to the Thai economy, and prevent the impoverished and/or those taking Thai jobs, from qualifying with the "bank balance" measurement. A substantial immigration-fee could more than cancel out any "tax-unfairness" issue - also benefitting Thailand.

Money is not a good indication of character, especially in this part of the world which seems to attract the most corrupt!

Many of the well healed players in this place (especially Russian) are throwing dirty money around. Look how easy it is to get in - no real security checks and now some want to make it easier to get a long term stay? Pensioners and married men are less likely to be problematic hence the visa provisions.

The biggest travesty by far is that married men are unable to work. That is just plain ignorant. And before you jump in and say you can, I mean the stupid "list of professions restricted to Thai nationals" so no, you can't.

Many people married to Thais work so YES you can work if married .................

[Kitsune]

The Digital Nomad topic again!!!

Is there any topic that does not turn into a DN topic?

[ParadiseLost]

The biggest travesty by far is that married men are unable to work. That is just plain ignorant. And before you jump in and say you can, I mean the stupid "list of professions restricted to Thai nationals" so no, you can't.

Many people married to Thais work so YES you can work if married .................

Yes, true. Perhaps I should have included "without restriction". I certainly cannot legally work in my field (IT) in this country. Most married men I see work in the tourist sector, or food and drink.

I have extensive banking experience from my younger days, you think I can work for one of the local banks (regardless of my Thai skills)?

My English is of a high standard but I am not a qualified teacher. This does not seem to bother schools hiring teachers, but if I were to do this and get caught I have a whole lot more to lose compared to the 20-something living-the-dream "teacher".

If working means I am away from home most of the time why live here? Done enough of that in my life so I would like the freedom to apply for local jobs which do not involve running around after spoilt backpackers - with iPhones... Either that or relax WP restrictions on companies allowing sole prop.

Edited November 4, 2015 by ParadiseLost

[oncearugge]

The biggest travesty by far is that married men are unable to work. That is just plain ignorant. And before you jump in and say you can, I mean the stupid "list of professions restricted to Thai nationals" so no, you can't.

Many people married to Thais work so YES you can work if married .................

Yes, true. Perhaps I should have included "without restriction". I certainly cannot legally work in my field (IT) in this country. Most married men I see work in the tourist sector, or food and drink.

I have extensive banking experience from my younger days, you think I can work for one of the local banks (regardless of my Thai skills)?

My English is of a high standard but I am not a qualified teacher. This does not seem to bother schools hiring teachers, but if I were to do this and get caught I have a whole lot more to lose compared to the 20-something living-the-dream "teacher".

If working means I am away from home most of the time why live here? Done enough of that in my life so I would like the freedom to apply for local jobs which do not involve running around after spoilt backpackers - with iPhones... Either that or relax WP restrictions on companies allowing sole prop.

YES it is possible to be married and work in IT!

It depends on what qualification/skill set are required for a particular job !

I have a good English friend who is married to a Thai and who also works in IT

Unqualified "teachers" cannot obtain work permits so if caught working such people ARE at risk.

[elviajero]

It may well be that some embassies/consulates will issue the METV to retirees.

If not they are only affected by having to buy two SETV's instead of one METV. The second SETV could easily be obtained on the compulsory exit to a neighbouring country.

assuming that exit has that facility. and why may it well be?

Whether or not you have a METV or SETV you have to exit after 60 days or 90 if the stay was extended. So that "facility" exists.

The MFA haven't published the full criteria for the METV and it is likely that embassies/consulates will have certain flexibility and control over certain criteria as they do now. So I don't see why you should right off the possibility of retirees being eligible when applying in some countries.

Usually the purpose of including a job in application criteria is demonstrating a reason to go home and not work illegally. Retirees don't pose the same risk, assuming they are in receipt of a pension, so I don't see why they would be excluded.

Edited November 4, 2015 by elviajero

[AYJAYDEE]

It may well be that some embassies/consulates will issue the METV to retirees.

If not they are only affected by having to buy two SETV's instead of one METV. The second SETV could easily be obtained on the compulsory exit to a neighbouring country.

assuming that exit has that facility. and why may it well be?

Whether or not you have a METV or SETV you have to exit after 60 days or 90 if the stay was extended. So that "facility" exists.

The MFA haven't published the full criteria for the METV and it is likely that embassies/consulates will have certain flexibility and control over certain criteria as they do now. So I don't see why you should right off the possibility of retirees being eligible when applying in some countries.

Usually the purpose of including a job in application criteria is demonstrating a reason to go home and not work illegally. Retirees don't pose the same risk, assuming they are in receipt of a pension, so I don't see why they would be excluded.

The facility of getting a new SETV does not exist at every border crosssing. And because they didnt specifically mention retirees but did specifically mention proof of employment, I DO see why they would be excluded. If they wernt to be excluded , they would have said so.. and its WRITE off.

[gk10002000]

Hmm, wow Thailand is really screwing over the younger people who are expats herr aren't they. Do they not understand that they can bring money into their economy from home, why all the red tape and bs.No other country in SE Asia makes things this problematic I swear

Some SEA countries do, some don't. Laos is 30+30 days (the 2nd double-price), and need a "fixer" for a business visa to go beyond this. Not sure about back-to-back re-entries there. Malaysia gives me 90 days on entry (USA passport), and can extend and/or do a border-run for another 90, but after that, questioning starts, and entries may be denied.

By contrast, Cambodia is easy - pay up to a year at a time for ME and never have to leave. What I know of Vietnam is 3-mo (showing $3000 in funds for acceptance) + 3-mo extensions in-country - not sure if there is a limit on the extensions, or further proof of funds on those. Myanmar - no idea.

Seems like some good options to "stay" in Cambodia and just visit Thailand. Tourist visa with a 30 day extension is an easy 90 days. Then head back to Cambodia. This avoids having to do 90 day reporting in Thailand. Return to Thailand maybe after a one month hang in Cambodia just in case single entry tourist visas back to back become a problem.

[oncearugge]

It may well be that some embassies/consulates will issue the METV to retirees.

If not they are only affected by having to buy two SETV's instead of one METV. The second SETV could easily be obtained on the compulsory exit to a neighbouring country.

assuming that exit has that facility. and why may it well be?

Whether or not you have a METV or SETV you have to exit after 60 days or 90 if the stay was extended. So that "facility" exists.

The MFA haven't published the full criteria for the METV and it is likely that embassies/consulates will have certain flexibility and control over certain criteria as they do now. So I don't see why you should right off the possibility of retirees being eligible when applying in some countries.

Usually the purpose of including a job in application criteria is demonstrating a reason to go home and not work illegally. Retirees don't pose the same risk, assuming they are in receipt of a pension, so I don't see why they would be excluded.

The facility of getting a new SETV does not exist at every border crosssing. And because they didnt specifically mention retirees but did specifically mention proof of employment, I DO see why they would be excluded. If they wernt to be excluded , they would have said so.. and its WRITE off.

SETV's are not available at ANY border crossing!

[monk213]

Hmm, wow Thailand is really screwing over the younger people who are expats herr aren't they. Do they not understand that they can bring money into their economy from home, why all the red tape and bs.No other country in SE Asia makes things this problematic I swear

Some SEA countries do, some don't. Laos is 30+30 days (the 2nd double-price), and need a "fixer" for a business visa to go beyond this. Not sure about back-to-back re-entries there. Malaysia gives me 90 days on entry (USA passport), and can extend and/or do a border-run for another 90, but after that, questioning starts, and entries may be denied.

By contrast, Cambodia is easy - pay up to a year at a time for ME and never have to leave. What I know of Vietnam is 3-mo (showing $3000 in funds for acceptance) + 3-mo extensions in-country - not sure if there is a limit on the extensions, or further proof of funds on those. Myanmar - no idea.

Seems like some good options to "stay" in Cambodia and just visit Thailand. Tourist visa with a 30 day extension is an easy 90 days. Then head back to Cambodia. This avoids having to do 90 day reporting in Thailand. Return to Thailand maybe after a one month hang in Cambodia just in case single entry tourist visas back to back become a problem.

Sounds like a good idea actually, so basically get a tourist visa (have one now anyway) and get the 30 day extension. After that head to Cambodia for one month and then hop back to LOS? Could I not do the same thing but with Laos as I prefer it there and what are the chances the immigration will keep offering me tourist visas to Thailand after every month of stay in Laos or Cambodia? I do not like touristy locations such as Phuket and heck no Patttaya, so just wondering what places in Cambodia are like.

[elviajero]

It may well be that some embassies/consulates will issue the METV to retirees.

If not they are only affected by having to buy two SETV's instead of one METV. The second SETV could easily be obtained on the compulsory exit to a neighbouring country.

assuming that exit has that facility. and why may it well be?

Whether or not you have a METV or SETV you have to exit after 60 days or 90 if the stay was extended. So that "facility" exists.

The MFA haven't published the full criteria for the METV and it is likely that embassies/consulates will have certain flexibility and control over certain criteria as they do now. So I don't see why you should right off the possibility of retirees being eligible when applying in some countries.

Usually the purpose of including a job in application criteria is demonstrating a reason to go home and not work illegally. Retirees don't pose the same risk, assuming they are in receipt of a pension, so I don't see why they would be excluded.

The facility of getting a new SETV does not exist at every border crosssing. And because they didnt specifically mention retirees but did specifically mention proof of employment, I DO see why they would be excluded. If they wernt to be excluded , they would have said so.. and its WRITE off.

I didn't realise I needed to spell out the fact that SETV's are only available at embassies/consulates.

If you look at the embassies that have published actual criteria so far it varies making it obvious that flexibility exists, but you carry on looking at your half empty glass.

[overherebc]

Oncearugge.

If teachers are unqualified why should they be working ?

Just asking

[oncearugge]

Oncearugge.

If teachers are unqualified why should they be working ?

Just asking

Why ask me ? I am not a"teacher" nor am I a qualified Teacher.

Those who work illegally should be aware of the risk involved.

[mpa]

If teachers are unqualified why should they be working ?

Just asking

What is your explanation?

[monk213]

Oncearugge.

If teachers are unqualified why should they be working ?

Just asking

Who even mentioned anybody being a teacher in this thread lol...? strange

[JackThompson]

...

... the DN ... are not investors but rather mercenaries. The little they spend here is not benefitting the country enough to offset the negative aspects, such as harboring fugitives, or dishonest people who are happy to break laws which do not suit them.

Money is not a good indication of character, especially in this part of the world which seems to attract the most corrupt! Many of the well healed players in this place (especially Russian) are throwing dirty money around. Look how easy it is to get in - no real security checks and now some want to make it easier to get a long term stay? Pensioners and married men are less likely to be problematic hence the visa provisions.

The biggest travesty by far is that married men are unable to work. That is just plain ignorant. And before you jump in and say you can, I mean the stupid "list of professions restricted to Thai nationals" so no, you can't.

"Fugitives" (harbored by whom?) would be caught when doing 90-day reports, crossing the border, or obtaining extensions of permission to stay. Neither they, nor "dishonest people," play by the rules. The "dirty money" types you speak of, would certainly buy an Elite visa, and have the least scrutiny of all. And there is no "age limit" or "marriage test" as it relates to "character" or corruption.

Many DNs do very difficult work for good money. I can only suggest those who view them as some sort of parasite / freeloaders study a good college-text on "Data Structures and Algorithms." They could live here and contribute far more than the average pensioner, with their income.

Mercenary? Versus what? Why not work on contract, given the "9-5" version of selling ones time for money (aka "Work, in a market-based economy") yields an ever-diminishing standard-of-living in Western nations. It was the private-corporations who threw out long-term careers, the pension-system, good-wages, and even hiring citizens of the nations where they operate - all for "efficiency." (Your country may vary - but give it a few years) DNs are the result of this, not the cause, and are only paid for actual results - not just "showing up on time." This type of work also offers the ability to climb out of poverty for millions in India and elsehwere.

As to the issue of working here: You can, if you have the degrees and skills - IT is not on the forbidden list.

[oncearugge]

...

... the DN ... are not investors but rather mercenaries. The little they spend here is not benefitting the country enough to offset the negative aspects, such as harboring fugitives, or dishonest people who are happy to break laws which do not suit them.

Money is not a good indication of character, especially in this part of the world which seems to attract the most corrupt! Many of the well healed players in this place (especially Russian) are throwing dirty money around. Look how easy it is to get in - no real security checks and now some want to make it easier to get a long term stay? Pensioners and married men are less likely to be problematic hence the visa provisions.

The biggest travesty by far is that married men are unable to work. That is just plain ignorant. And before you jump in and say you can, I mean the stupid "list of professions restricted to Thai nationals" so no, you can't.

"Fugitives" (harbored by whom?) would be caught when doing 90-day reports, crossing the border, or obtaining extensions of permission to stay. Neither they, nor "dishonest people," play by the rules. The "dirty money" types you speak of, would certainly buy an Elite visa, and have the least scrutiny of all. And there is no "age limit" or "marriage test" as it relates to "character" or corruption.

Many DNs do very difficult work for good money. I can only suggest those who view them as some sort of parasite / freeloaders study a good college-text on "Data Structures and Algorithms." They could live here and contribute far more than the average pensioner, with their income.

Mercenary? Versus what? Why not work on contract, given the "9-5" version of selling ones time for money (aka "Work, in a market-based economy") yields an ever-diminishing standard-of-living in Western nations. It was the private-corporations who threw out long-term careers, the pension-system, good-wages, and even hiring citizens of the nations where they operate - all for "efficiency." (Your country may vary - but give it a few years) DNs are the result of this, not the cause, and are only paid for actual results - not just "showing up on time." This type of work also offers the ability to climb out of poverty for millions in India and elsehwere.

As to the issue of working here: You can, if you have the degrees and skills - IT is not on the forbidden list.

Degree Qualified Nomad ?

Never met one !

[JackThompson]

Hmm, wow Thailand is really screwing over the younger people who are expats herr aren't they. Do they not understand that they can bring money into their economy from home, why all the red tape and bs.No other country in SE Asia makes things this problematic I swear

... Cambodia is easy - pay up to a year at a time for ME and never have to leave. ...

Seems like some good options to "stay" in Cambodia and just visit Thailand. Tourist visa with a 30 day extension is an easy 90 days. Then head back to Cambodia. This avoids having to do 90 day reporting in Thailand. Return to Thailand maybe after a one month hang in Cambodia just in case single entry tourist visas back to back become a problem.

Sounds like a good idea actually, so basically get a tourist visa (have one now anyway) and get the 30 day extension. After that head to Cambodia for one month and then hop back to LOS? Could I not do the same thing but with Laos as I prefer it there and what are the chances the immigration will keep offering me tourist visas to Thailand after every month of stay in Laos or Cambodia? I do not like touristy locations such as Phuket and heck no Patttaya, so just wondering what places in Cambodia are like.

That's the rub - the unknowns. How long to stay out? How many times can you do METV or SETV before you need a new passport? There are no rules stated on these points - only moving guidelines all over the place, which partially accounts for the popularity of this website.

Cambodia choices: 1. Rustic. 2. Touristy. 3. Phnom Penh (which has "touristy" in it). No reliable electricity - even in SHV or most of PP (PP tourist-sector, excepted). Rapid development in that sector means this may have improved. Also no public transport - so it is motos and tuk-tuks (nice ones, though). Anyone have info on Battambang? I haven't stayed there yet.

The biggest upside - the people are really nice and friendly to Westerners. I walked up to a soda-stall with a tarp-tent behind it, which was clearly "home" to the family. The mother said a name, and a 8 yo ran up and said, "Hello, may I help you?" with a smile. This is not uncommon.

[phuketrichard]

we go up to Cambodia twice a year

Battambang , Cambodia's second largest city ( not counting tourists) but has a very small town feel to it. I got a job working with the circus there 3 years ago but couldn't handle living there so left.after a week

I have lived in PP, but 6 years ago and enjoyed it but would not move back , growing an expensive compared to Phuket

have spent quite a bit of time in Siem Rep but wouldn't want to live there

SHV, nope, not for me,

Am heading up to Kep next week to see if its changed since i was last there 2 years ago as my gf family is there and we have land and a house so might consider a move BUT

NO where in Cambodia, for me , is as good as Thailand

[JackThompson]

Degree Qualified Nomad ? Never met one !

Go to the "upwork" website and scroll through the profiles and hourly rate for serious coders. All I hire have degrees - often a masters. Some probably get by with self-taught skills and references - but if they do not understand "Data-Structures and Algorithms," and "Database Nomalization," they will make a mess. You must design and build complex digital machines that work.

Now consider that in the USA, there are twice as many Sci-Tech-Engrng-Math graduates than 9-5 jobs, yet a visa-program exists to flood the market with non-citizens. So its "nomad" or "starbucks" for most. These are among the good people being kept out of Thailand by visa restrictions.