Sinai crash: plane 'may have been brought down by explosive device'

[webfact]

Sinai crash: plane ‘may have been brought down by explosive device’
By Sarah Joanne Taylor | With BRITISH GOVERNMENT, REUTERS

LONDON: -- The Metrojet plane which crashed over the Sinai peninsula on Saturday may have been “brought down by an explosive device”.

British Prime Minister David Cameron issued a statement saying:

“While the investigation is still ongoing, we cannot say categorically why the Russian jet crashed.

“But as more information has come to light, we have become concerned that the plane may well have been brought down by an explosive device.”

The UK is the first nation to make a statement saying it believes a bomb or another device could have brought down the plane.

Downing Street talks between Cameron and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi are due to begin on Thursday.

Earlier in the week, the Egyptian leader urged caution but dismissed as “propaganda” claims the militant group ISIL brought down the plane.

On Wednesday, however, the jihadists reiterated their claim to responsibility via Twitter, but they say it is not down to them to prove how the alleged attack was carried out.

‘Likely an explosion’

Russian and Egyptian authorities are carrying out an investigation into the fatal flight, which crashed little more than 20 minutes after take-off from Sharm el-Sheikh, killing all 224 people on board. Its intended destination was Saint Petersburg.

Reuters, citing a source close to the black-box investigation ongoing in Egypt, reports the cause of the crash is likely an explosion, but it is not sure whether fuel or a bomb caused the blast.

“It is believed to be an explosion, but what kind is not clear. There is an examination of the sand at the crash site to try and determine if it was a bomb,” the source is quoted as saying.

“There are forensic investigations underway at the crash site. That will help determine the cause, to see if traces of explosives are found.”

Sharm el-Sheikh-UK flights delayed

Downing Street added that all flights from Sharm el-Sheikh to the UK have been grounded for the moment.

“In light of this, and as a precautionary measure, we have decided that flights due to leave Sharm for the UK this evening will be delayed.

“That will allow time for a team of UK aviation experts, currently travelling to Sharm, to make an assessment of the security arrangements in place at the airport and to identify whether any further action is required.”

David Cameron was chairing a meeting of the Cobra emergency committee on the issue on Wednesday evening.

‘Black box’ investigation

Investigators at Egypt’s Civil Aviation Ministry announced on Wednesday that they had extracted and validated the contents of one of the so-called ‘black box’ flight data recorders.

The second black box contains the cockpit voice recorder (CVR). It was partially damaged, experts say, and it took a lot of work to extract data from it.

“Consequently, no further comment on the CVR can be made. Examination of parts on site is continuing,” the ministry said in a statement.

‘Heat flash’ detected

A matter of days after the plane came down, American media reported that a US satellite had detected a heat flash over Sinai at the time of the crash.

Data gleaned from the satellite is reportedly being analysed to determine whether the flash happened during the flight, or on the ground.

The White House has issued a statement saying “there are no US carriers that regularly operate out of the Sinai peninsula”.

Spokesman Josh Earnest said the Federal Aviation Administration had already put an advisory in place in March. It recommends avoiding flying at lower altitudes over the Sinai, citing a potential risk associated with extremist activity.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-05

[NanLaew]

And the 'explosive decompression' caused by structural failure of a poorly maintained aircraft will look the same on the flight recorder data which is all they have at the moment.

[webfact]

WASHINGTON (AP) - US official: Early intelligence suggests bomb brought down the Russian airliner

[webfact]

Bomb may have downed Russian jet, US, UK officials say
By JILL LAWLESS and KEN DILANIAN

LONDON (AP) — British and U.S. officials said Wednesday they have information suggesting the Russian jetliner that crashed in the Egyptian desert may have been brought down by a bomb, and Britain said it was suspending flights to and from the Sinai Peninsula indefinitely.

Intercepted communications played a role in the tentative conclusion that the Islamic State group's Sinai affiliate planted an explosive device on the plane, said a U.S. official briefed on the matter. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss intelligence matters publicly.

The official and others said there had been no formal judgment rendered by the CIA or other intelligence agencies, and that forensic evidence from the blast site, including the airplane's black box, was still being analyzed.

The official added that intelligence analysts don't believe the operation was ordered by Islamic State leaders in Raqqa, Syria. Rather, they believe that if it was a bomb, it was planned and executed by the Islamic State's affiliate in the Sinai, which operates autonomously.

Other officials cautioned that intercepted communications can sometimes be misleading and that it's possible the evidence will add up to a conclusion that there was no bomb.

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said there was a "significant possibility" the crash was caused by a bomb, and Britain was suspending flights to and from the Sinai resort of Sharm el-Sheikh indefinitely.

After a meeting of the British government's crisis committee, COBRA, Hammond said Britain was advising its citizens not to go on vacation to Sharm el-Sheikh, which is visited by hundreds of thousands of Britons a year.

Meanwhile, Russian and Egyptian investigators said Wednesday that the cockpit voice recorder of the Metrojet Airbus 321-200 had suffered substantial damage in the weekend crash that killed 224 people. Information from the flight data recorder has been successfully copied and handed over to investigators, the Russians added.

Prime Minister David Cameron's office said British aviation experts had been sent to Sharm el-Sheikh, where the flight originated, to assess security before British flights there would be allowed to resume.

Several British flights due to leave Sharm el-Sheikh for the U.K. Wednesday were grounded, leaving hundreds of tourists stranded.

Cameron's 10 Downing St. office said late Wednesday that the team's preliminary report "noted that the Egyptian authorities had stepped up their efforts but that more remains to be done."

Downing Steet said it could not say "categorically" why the Russian jet had crashed.

"But as more information has come to light, we have become concerned that the plane may well have been brought down by an explosive device," it said in a statement.

Cameron had discussed the issue of security at the Sharm el-Sheikh airport with Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, who flew to Britain on Wednesday for an official visit, Downing Street said.

The British disclosures were an embarrassment to el-Sissi, who had insisted in an interview with the BBC on Tuesday that the security situation in the Sinai Peninsula is under "full control." He has staked his legitimacy on restoring stability and reviving Egypt's economy.

The suspension of flights is a further blow to Egypt's troubled tourism industry, which has suffered in the unrest that followed the 2011 Arab Spring. The one bright spot for Egypt has been tourism at the Red Sea resorts.

The Irish Aviation Authority followed the British lead and directed Irish airlines to suspend flights to Sharm el-Sheikh Airport and into the airspace of the Sinai Peninsula "until further notice."

The British acted "too soon," said Hany Ramsay, deputy head of Sharm el-Sheikh's airport.

"Other countries might soon follow them, Ramsay told The Associated Press, suggesting there may be political and commercial motives behind the British statement.

"They want to hurt tourism and cause confusion," he added.

Several airlines, including Lufthansa and Air France, stopped flying over Sinai after the crash, but British carriers had kept to their schedules. Almost 1 million Britons visit Egypt each year, many to Sharm el-Sheikh, which is also popular with Russians.

The Metrojet flight carrying mostly Russian vacationers from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg broke up in the air at an altitude of 31,000 feet 23 minutes after takeoff and came down in the Sinai desert, Russian officials said.

The plane crash site, 70 kilometers (44 miles) south of the city of el-Arish, lies in the northern Sinai, where Egyptian security forces have for years battled local Islamic militants.

Two U.S. officials told the AP on Tuesday that U.S. satellite imagery detected heat around the jet just before it went down.

The infrared activity could mean many things, including a bomb blast or an engine on the plane exploding due to a malfunction. One of the officials who spoke condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to discuss the information publicly said a missile striking the jetliner was ruled out, because neither a missile launch nor an engine burn had been detected.

The Islamic State group claimed it had downed the plane because of Moscow's recent military intervention in Syria against the extremist group, but el-Sissi dismissed that as "propaganda" aimed at damaging Egypt's image.

Douglas Barrie, military aerospace expert with the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, said it was too soon to say for sure the cause of the crash but the "general suspicion" that an explosive device was involved has been mounting. He said the British government's decision made sense.

"It's a political decision to err on the side of caution if it has been deemed possible that an explosive device was involved and there are concerns about the levels of security at the airport involved," he said.

The Moscow-based Interstate Aviation Commission, which oversees civil aviation in much of the former Soviet Union, said in a statement that information from the Metrojet flight's data recorder had been successfully copied and given to investigators. But the cockpit voice recorder "received serious mechanical damage."

Egypt's Aviation Ministry also said the voice recorder is "partially damaged" and that as a result "a lot of work is required in order to extract data from it."

Metrojet, the plane's owner, and Russian authorities offered conflicting theories of what happened. Metrojet officials have insisted the crash was due to an "external impact," not a technical malfunction or pilot error.

Russian officials have said it's too early to jump to that conclusion. El-Sissi told the BBC that the cause of the crash may not be known for months and that there should be no speculation until then.

Rescue teams in Egypt combed the Sinai desert for more remains and parts of the plane's fuselage as grief-stricken Russian families in St. Petersburg faced an agonizing wait to bury their loved ones.

Russian and Egyptian rescue workers expanded their search area in the Sinai to 40 square kilometers (15 square miles). The Russian state television channel Rossiya-24 reported the plane's tail was found 5 kilometers (3 miles) away from the rest of the wreckage.

Only one body has been released to a Russian family for burial so far. Relatives have identified 33 bodies and the paperwork is nearly finished on 22 of those, meaning the families should get the bodies shortly, said Igor Albin, deputy governor of St. Petersburg, in a televised conference call.
___

Dilanian reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Dmitry Lovetsky in St. Petersburg, Russia; Gregory Katz in London; Jim Heintz in Moscow and Nour Youssef in Cairo contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-05

[NanLaew]

If a bomb on a commercial plane is suddenly being mooted as a pretext to elevate the rather moribund western 'war on ISIL', then so be it.

Meanwhile, they collectively refuse to address the murder of 298 passengers and crew on MH17.

[ezzra]

If this will turn out to be true and the plane was brought down by a terrorist missile, that those terrorist

will wish they were never born, as those Russkies will be after them like a mustard on rye and when

those russkies go after someone they don't ask anyone permissions.... so we shall see...

[Jonathan Fairfield]

UK Suspends Sharm Flights Amid Jet Bomb Fears

There is a "significant possibility" the jet that crashed in Egypt was downed by an explosion on board, the UK Government says.

LONDON:-- All flights to Sharm el Sheikh have been suspended indefinitely in light of the Egypt plane crash, amid growing fears the disaster was caused by an explosive device on board.

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said the UK Government is now advising against all but essential travel through the resort's airport as there is a "significant possibility" the Russian jet was brought down by an explosion.

The Metrojet plane, which was travelling from Sharm to St Petersburg, crashed in the Sinai Peninsula with 224 people on board.

Speaking after a meeting of the Government's emergency committee COBRA, Mr Hammond said stranded passengers in Sharm will be returned to the UK, but reassured tourists that the popular resort itself was still considered safe.

Full story: http://news.sky.com/story/1581952/uk-suspends-sharm-flights-amid-jet-bomb-fears

[bra]

Whilst an explosive device detonated on the aircraft MAY be a cause of this accident, this is not yet confirmed by the Air Safety Investigators. The cause could also be a structural failure in the tail section as a result of repairs made to this area following a serious tail strike a few years ago - this would be similar to the JAL and China Airlines B747 accidents which can be looked up on Wikipedia.

It is almost certain the aircraft was not brought down by a missile - all of the phots shown so far have no evidence of this - compare the photos of the MH 17 cockpit area.

The crew and passengers in MH 17 were not murdered but killed - there is a very big difference in word usage and Law between the two. I think that those who fired the missile at what they considered was a hostile target - they had shot down a few in previous days. With the technology they had there was no way of knowing it was MH 17. Of course in 20/20 hindsight the Malaysian B772 and the other 100+ airline aircraft, although operating that day in the airspace in accordance with NOTAMS issued by the Ukraine ATC authorities, should not have been there. Another very tragic accident of war and the lessons are there to be learnt yet again.

[Scott]

If a bomb on a commercial plane is suddenly being mooted as a pretext to elevate the rather moribund western 'war on ISIL', then so be it.

Meanwhile, they collectively refuse to address the murder of 298 passengers and crew on MH17.

Let's try to stay on the topic of this particular crash. We also should remember that both Russia and Ukraine denied responsibility. In this case, a terrorist group has claimed responsibility, even though early reports indicated that most believed that was a false claim.

[Mosha]

If it's true, and if this is being told to the world. What do they really say behind closed doors. Putin won't wag his fingers and say "Naughty naughty."

[Publicus]

ISIS are ruthless barbarians as we know. If Vladimir Putin believes he could enter Syria bombs away against Muslim whack jobs and discount something like this happening then he'd be as wacko as all of his predecessors in the Kremlin for the past thousand years. The world awaits conclusive proof this was a new dimension to ISIS slaughter so we should not get to far out ahead of the events of this as they may be.

US intelligence says it monitors ISIS and other enemies chatter of various kind and British intelligence is being even more aggressive in their assessment of this disaster and tragedy. It would be so surprise if other Western intelligence agencies might be more cautious and reserved about this, as the British have taken a rather aggressive lead in the suspicions and early indications.

This may all the same be Vlad's real world welcome to the murderous real world of the Middle East which can make Chechnya look like a summer camp for rambunctious boyz. (Think the Boston Marathon bombers from nearby to Chechnya). What Vlad asks for Vlad will get in more ways than one. If this isn't it, Vlad would show some smarts to conclude something like it should be expected as a direct cost of his plunging himself into the mad world of the Middle East. .

[manarak]

Whilst an explosive device detonated on the aircraft MAY be a cause of this accident, this is not yet confirmed by the Air Safety Investigators. The cause could also be a structural failure in the tail section as a result of repairs made to this area following a serious tail strike a few years ago - this would be similar to the JAL and China Airlines B747 accidents which can be looked up on Wikipedia.

It is almost certain the aircraft was not brought down by a missile - all of the phots shown so far have no evidence of this - compare the photos of the MH 17 cockpit area.

The crew and passengers in MH 17 were not murdered but killed - there is a very big difference in word usage and Law between the two. I think that those who fired the missile at what they considered was a hostile target - they had shot down a few in previous days. With the technology they had there was no way of knowing it was MH 17. Of course in 20/20 hindsight the Malaysian B772 and the other 100+ airline aircraft, although operating that day in the airspace in accordance with NOTAMS issued by the Ukraine ATC authorities, should not have been there. Another very tragic accident of war and the lessons are there to be learnt yet again.

there are reports of a heat flash at the tail of the plane, recorded by satellites.

[Publicus]

Indeed, but Pentagon says no indication of a missile. Still the bomb thing hasn't been rule out and is becoming increasingly suspect.

Russian plane crash: Heat flash detected by military satellites at time of crash, US media reports

A US satellite detected an unidentified heat flash in the vicinity of a Russian passenger plane around the time it crashed in the Sinai desert, killing all 224 people on board, reports say

The mid-air flash was picked up by a US military satellite, CNN reported, and intelligence analysis indicated it may have come from an explosion or other catastrophic event onboard the aircraft.

NBC, quoting unnamed US officials, said a missile strike had been ruled out because the heat flash did not produce the kind of tail expected from a rocket or missile.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-04/heat-flash-detected-at-time-of-egypt-plane-crash-us-reports/6910094

Edited November 5, 2015 by Publicus

[HenryB]

Everyone knows who did it Hint Not a old Expat

[than]

And the 'explosive decompression' caused by structural failure of a poorly maintained aircraft will look the same on the flight recorder data which is all they have at the moment.

The aircraft made a tail strike in 2001 when it was leased by MEA

A bad reparation could be drive to this crash. Remember flight CI 611 and flight JL 123 same cause, same crash.

Now for the "fireball" detected just remind that after 30 min of fly, the aircraft was always full of kerosene

[webfact]

UK and US intelligence sources say Russian airliner was downed by a bomb



LONDON: -- There is growing evidence that a bomb was the likely cause of last week’s Russian airliner crash in Sinai which killed 224 people.

Although not mentioning any group, Britain’s Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond cited the possibility after a meeting of the UK government’s emergency Cobra committee.

“We have concluded that there is a significant possibility that the crash was caused by an explosive device on board the aircraft.”

Both US and UK intelligence sources point to the Islamist militant group ISIL or affiliated extremists who may have planted the bomb before the plane took off from Sharm el-Sheikh airport on route for St Petersburg.

Sinai Province – a group linked to ISIL claims to have brought down the plane “in response to Russian air strikes that killed hundreds of Muslims on Syrian land.”

Britain’s Foreign Secretary went on to say:

“We have concluded that we have to change our travel advice and we are advising against all but essential travel by air through Sharm el-Sheikh airport. That means that there will be no U.K. passenger flights out to Sharm el-Sheikh from now,.

The UK’s reaction comes as data is still being analysed by crash investigators. The news was not welcomed by British tourists.

“I’ve been coming to Egypt since 1981, I was here very soon after the Hatshepsut problem in ’97 (when militants attacked tourists), and I will always keep coming back,” said tourist Julie Wattenberg,

“I think that it has been a really bad decision, because I think that nowadays, this could happen anywhere in the world,” added Helen Collins.

Egypt’s economy relies heavily on tourism and its foreign minister has called the UK response premature, claiming to have taken exceptional measures to enhance security at Sharm el-Sheikh airport.

Russian experts have also said its is too early to say what downed the plane although they appear to have ruled out the aircraft having been struck from outside.

“ There are two versions now under consideration: something stowed inside the plane and a technical fault. But the airplane could not just break apart in the air – there should be some action. A rocket is unlikely as there are no signs of that,” a Russian official said.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-05

[samuibeachcomber]

Surely if it was a bomb on board they would have found fragments of said bomb.Cant really believe anybody these days.

[Mango Bob]

I really get the feeling that this is revenge for the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

[Usernames]

I really get the feeling that this is revenge for the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Well, whatever beef I may have with the Ruskies here and elsewhere, it's a pretty disgusting thing if somebody took revenge by killing a planeload of innocent people who had nothing to do with the Malaysia Air shootdown.

[craigt3365]

I really get the feeling that this is revenge for the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Russia has had problems with terrorists for years. Their exploits in the Caucasus' are a main source of these problems.

I doubt the downing of that plane had anything to do with this. More like their invasion of Syria. Where there are many Russian Islamist's fighting for the other side.

[Jingthing]

Not meant to be insensitive as this is a horrible tragedy and the evidence is pointing to it being a terrorism event, but this has implications for Thailand.
We're entering the winter tourism season now and surely a lot of the Russians will be cancelling their escape the cold trips to Egypt and going instead to Thailand, particularly Pattaya/Jomtien.

Oh well!

[NanLaew]

I really get the feeling that this is revenge for the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Revenge by whom? The Malaysians? The Dutch?

That's going off topic anyway. Initially we had a Russian plane that was reported to be in poor condition by a co-pilot diverting to Cairo after the skipper reported some technical issues shorty after take-off. Then we have the theory of an explosive decompression possibly linked to a botched repair job several years ago. Missiles have been discounted quickly enough which is strange since it took days of claims and counter claims before the BUK missile theory was embraced on MH17 (I know, off topic but relevant here). in previous air disasters, the CVR and black box are whisked away to France for analysis by experienced professionals but on this one, we have Egyptians and Russians saying what has been read from these devices locally in Egypt (?) doesn't indicate anything specific.

The latest bomb on board theory is out of left field for sure.

[hawker9000]

If there was some onboard explosive device, wouldn't there have been some explosives residue found by now?

Have the CVR and FDR been read out yet?

[car720]

I really get the feeling that this is revenge for the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Well, whatever beef I may have with the Ruskies here and elsewhere, it's a pretty disgusting thing if somebody took revenge by killing a planeload of innocent people who had nothing to do with the Malaysia Air shootdown.

The problem here is that we are not talking about people who care about other people.

These people do this sort of thing for political point scoring.

I am not a religious man but,

Satan lives.

[soalbundy]

Is the UN alarmed about this as well

[Daniel Boon]

Surely if it was a bomb on board they would have found fragments of said bomb.Cant really believe anybody these days.

sounds a lot like the UK joining the USA as they did in WMD ... pointing the finger at 'terrorists' - and very disconcerting news about the USA involvement io the creation of ISIS; even where the Russians destroyed munitions of 'terrorists' and the USA air-lifting and dropping more off .,..

[Ulic]

Not meant to be insensitive as this is a horrible tragedy and the evidence is pointing to it being a terrorism event, but this has implications for Thailand.

We're entering the winter tourism season now and surely a lot of the Russians will be cancelling their escape the cold trips to Egypt and going instead to Thailand, particularly Pattaya/Jomtien.

Oh well!

I guess we shall see but I thought the Russian tourists to Thailand were predominantly

from eastern Russia, while Egyptian tourists from Russia are predominantly from the west.

All north Africa is also off the list for European tourists with the terrorist shootings. It looks

like the Caribbean and Thailand should benefit from sun seekers that would go to these

destinations. Even Kenya is out with Al Shabaab activity in Mombasa

[from the home of CC]

Just an opinion: I get the feeling the Brits got some intel from a contact inside ISIL, which is why they became confident in the shot calling. Everybody in the region knew of the hoardes of Russian tourists arriving on cheap charters (especially since the ruble fall). Perfect storm with Muslim brotherhood getting their asses kicked there and then having the Kremlin getting more proactive in Syria. Where do think the airport workers are from? The security? Many fathers, brothers, sons and daughters died in the streets of Egypt, to some, this would be a pleasure to help their Arab brothers fight the infidels and blacken the eye of Egypt at the same time.

I really get the feeling that this is revenge for the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Revenge by whom? The Malaysians? The Dutch?

That's going off topic anyway. Initially we had a Russian plane that was reported to be in poor condition by a co-pilot diverting to Cairo after the skipper reported some technical issues shorty after take-off. Then we have the theory of an explosive decompression possibly linked to a botched repair job several years ago. Missiles have been discounted quickly enough which is strange since it took days of claims and counter claims before the BUK missile theory was embraced on MH17 (I know, off topic but relevant here). in previous air disasters, the CVR and black box are whisked away to France for analysis by experienced professionals but on this one, we have Egyptians and Russians saying what has been read from these devices locally in Egypt (?) doesn't indicate anything specific.

The latest bomb on board theory is out of left field for sure.

[Colabamumbai]

The price the Russians pay for getting involved in Syria's dirty war.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

The Russians had a very effective way of dealing with Muslim terrorists in the past. Once they determined the identities of some of the individuals responsible, they found their families and executed some of them and threatened to execute the entire families of all involved if the hostages were not released. The hostages were in fact released very soon.

The terrorists that committed the attacks on the hotels in mumbai were paid approx the equivalent of $1,250 USD to go and murder as many westerners as they could. They knew this was a suicide mission but they did it, at least in part, because they knew that small amount of money would greatly benefit their dirt poor families.

If they knew their families would be executed for the evil acts that they had committed, I seriously doubt they would have committed those murders for any price.

Say what you will about the crazy Muslim extremists, but they do love and cherish their families.

It is a very harsh policy to commit to doing this and not at all PC, but I only see this Muslim terrorism increasing and with the refugees rushing into every country which will likely be infiltrated with ISIS recruits to help spread their culture of death to infidels, I don;t see how else they can be stopped.

i know at this time that many people will disagree with this, but as this scourge of terror increases I am sure more people will agree that this might be the only way to stop it.

I fear there will be very sad and tragic days ahead.