Pai: British rape victim speaks up about ordeal

[FolkGuitar]

"Hello!" My name is I.M. Victim. I believe I have the God-given right to go anywhere I want, any time I want, wear anything I want, and behave any way I want. The rest of the world MUST treat me the way I want, and conform to MY ideas. They have to learn to respect my rights regardless of the reality of the situation. If not, I will kick, scream, call names, and behave in the most awful manner, demanding that people change to suit me. These are my rights!"

The sad thing is... there really are a lot of people like this out there...

The sad thing is that there are people like you out there.

Is this the TV version of the primary school song 'I'm rubber, you're glue..'

Edited November 7, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[Chicog]

"Hello!" My name is I.M. Victim. I believe I have the God-given right to go anywhere I want, any time I want, wear anything I want, and behave any way I want. The rest of the world MUST treat me the way I want, and conform to MY ideas. They have to learn to respect my rights regardless of the reality of the situation. If not, I will kick, scream, call names, and behave in the most awful manner, demanding that people change to suit me. These are my rights!"

The sad thing is... there really are a lot of people like this out there...

The sad thing is that there are people like you out there.

Is this the TV version of the primary school song 'I'm rubber, you're glue. Everything you say bounces of me and sticks to you.'

Fact is, I wasn't really thinking of you when I posted it, but hey... if it fits....

The fact is that you're all wind and piss mate.

You'd probably be a bit more human if it was your mother, your sister or your daughter but that's doubtful frankly.

[FolkGuitar]

"Hello!" My name is I.M. Victim. I believe I have the God-given right to go anywhere I want, any time I want, wear anything I want, and behave any way I want. The rest of the world MUST treat me the way I want, and conform to MY ideas. They have to learn to respect my rights regardless of the reality of the situation. If not, I will kick, scream, call names, and behave in the most awful manner, demanding that people change to suit me. These are my rights!"

The sad thing is... there really are a lot of people like this out there...

The sad thing is that there are people like you out there.

Is this the TV version of the primary school song 'I'm rubber, you're glue. Everything you say bounces of me and sticks to you.'

Fact is, I wasn't really thinking of you when I posted it, but hey... if it fits....

The fact is that you're all wind and piss mate.

You'd probably be a bit more human if it was your mother, your sister or your daughter but that's doubtful frankly.

Not to worry. None of them would have put themselves into such a situation in the first place. And THAT is the only point I've been making in this thread.

I've repeatedly said that the only one to blame for the rape is the criminal, NOT the woman. Perhaps you don't agree...

[Cook my sock]

I've repeatedly said that the only one to blame for the rape is the criminal, NOT the woman. Perhaps you don't agree...

The man who can't admit what he says

You very clearly stated in an earlier post that she put herself into a situation where she could get victimized (in this case raped)and you clearly state on top of that .. it was her fault.

I don't have to quote you word for word or put a page number, just for you

sorry but you're a typical TV bully bigot.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Cook my sock

[Chicog]

When you post rubbish like this in a thread about a rape victim, your implication is very clear.

Can I suggest you think about what you're posting and stop being an ar$e.

FolkGuitar, on 07 Nov 2015 - 15:35, said:

"Hello!" My name is I.M. Victim. I believe I have the God-given right to go anywhere I want, any time I want, wear anything I want, and behave any way I want. The rest of the world MUST treat me the way I want, and conform to MY ideas. They have to learn to respect my rights regardless of the reality of the situation. If not, I will kick, scream, call names, and behave in the most awful manner, demanding that people change to suit me. These are my rights!"

The sad thing is... there really are a lot of people like this out there...

Edited November 7, 2015 by Chicog

[Cook my sock]

The guy has lost the plot I think

[FolkGuitar]

I've repeatedly said that the only one to blame for the rape is the criminal, NOT the woman. Perhaps you don't agree...

The man who can't admit what he says

You very clearly stated in an earlier post that she put herself into a situation where she could get victimized (in this case raped)and you clearly state on top of that .. it was her fault.

I don't have to quote you word for word or put a page number, just for you

sorry but you're a typical TV bully bigot.

There is no question about the fact that she put herself in a situation that increased the risk of being victimized. No question what so ever.

She was NOT TO BLAME for being raped. The blame was solely that of the criminal. There is no question of that either.

Understand that there is a difference. A very large difference.

I'm sorry that you aren't able to understand that.

[Cook my sock]

Again, u just twisted your own words to suit.

You clearly said she put herself in a situation where shd could get victimized and it was her fault.

Written yourself into a bit of a muddle, haven't you?

Edited November 7, 2015 by Cook my sock

[FolkGuitar]

When you post rubbish like this in a thread about a rape victim, your implication is very clear.

Can I suggest you think about what you're posting and stop being an ar$e.

Imply? I didn't imply anything. I very clearly stated that fact.

She put herself in a situation that greatly increased the risk of victimization. Can you honestly say that she didn't?

Alone at 2am in a strange place, getting into a vehicle with a strange man? She is NOT responsible for the crime. She's responsible for her own actions.

You mentioned my mother, wife and daughter before... Would you suggest to your mother, wife, or daughter that it's OK if they follow this same behavior?

Would you tell them that it doesn't increase the risk of becoming a victim? That it's safe to go out alone a 2am in a strange city, get into a strangers vehicle?

These are serious questions that I asking of you. Think about them before posting some clever remark. Would you tell them it's OK?

[happy Joe]

Leave your car door open with the keys and it will quickly prey to thugs.

Walk through the dark streets with your flashy jewelry and you will be quickly robbed.

Let your wine in the courtyard and the whole village will drink to your health

Girl drunk with young people in full sap and then ask them to escort you to your room...

This thread is of responsibility. Everyone knows that the world is not perfect and that we must avoid tempting people who lack of what we have. Unfortunately much prefer whining lamenting our poor world so cruel.

Edited November 7, 2015 by happy Joe

[Cook my sock]

First you say the woman's not to blame and then you say she put herself in a situation where she cd get victimized and its her fault.

Which one is it?

Edited November 7, 2015 by Cook my sock

[FolkGuitar]

Again, u just twisted your own words to suit.

You clearly said she put herself in a situation where shd could get victimized and it was her fault.

Written yourself in a bit of a muddle, haven't you?

Lord, I didn't twist anything.

You really can't understand the difference between being responsible for one's own actions and being responsible for a crime that was committed?

They are two very different things.

Let me try to put into smaller words for you...'

Imagine that you are standing in a bar, a crowded bar, and you take our a wad of money an inch thick, fan it so you can count it as you pay the bartender.

You've committed no crime, right. But you have increased the risk of becoming the victim of a crime just by your behavior. It's very late s now you go outside the bar and start walking down the dark street all by yourself. Once again, you are increasing the risk factor because you are alone and in the dark.

A criminal comes out and robs you. Are you responsible for the crime? No, of course not. The criminal is completely responsible for the crime.

Are you responsible for putting yourself at greater risk of being victimized? Obviously, you are. You let everyone in the bar know you had lots of money, then you walk alone down a dark street. Are you to blame for increasing the risk of victimization? Obviously you are. Are you to blame for the crime? Most certainly not.

Can you see the difference?

Edited November 7, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[Cook my sock]

Everyone knows that the world is not perfect and that we must avoid tempting people who lack of what we have.

Eloquent analogies but I can't quite see what it has to do with sex attacks

[Chicog]

Suffice to say that one factor that contributes to incidents like this is this "Land of Smiles" nonsense and the Thais natural proclivity to either cover things like this up (as evidenced by their attempts to make it difficult for her to make a case), or blame it on Shan/Burmese/convenient other Johnny Foreigner.

It's good that this has been well publicised.

However there is a big difference between saying that she ended up in a vulnerable position, whether she was to blame or not, and posting sarcastic nonsense such as "I'm a victim blah blah blah".

If you can't see that difference, there is something wrong with you.

[Cook my sock]

Remember the Dutch model who was raped in Krabi?

According to police, it was her fault for accepting a dinner date, how could she complain etc.

It was her birthday and she also accepted a lift home.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Cook my sock

[Chicog]

Well when you have the PM effectively saying that attractive women in bikinis are asking for it, you know you are dealing with a bunch of utter morons.

I daresay someone will be along to defend him shortly.

[Cook my sock]

Yup. I'm on uk time and about to head out and watch the fireworks in east London

Maybe I'm putting myself in a position to get mugged and stabbed by a group of thugs. I will only have myself to blame.

[TerrylSky]

Sad that this happened. One punch in the adams apple and/or a kick would have stopped the animal me thinks - or a jump of the bike once she knew something was amiss - or all three perhaps. Most Thai guys aren't that big either. But, hey they were both drunk? Go figure. Again, it's too bad there are <deleted> out there like him.

[Robert24]

First you say the woman's not to blame and then you say she put herself in a situation where she cd get victimized and its her fault.

Which one is it?

I think what we are trying to say is that

1) it is definitely not her fault for being raped. she is the victim of a crime

2) she acted careless and as a result became vulnerable to be easily exploited by a criminal

1) and 2) are different things. Important to keep those apart.

I mentioned the analogy before. If you leave your car unlocked and someone steals something out of your car, it is not your fault for the theft having occurred. You are the victim, the thief is the criminal. However you could have prevented the theft by locking the car. You don't have to lock the car, it is up to you but it is highly recommended not to leave the car unlocked. Hope that helps in distinguishing between the actual crime that happened and what alternative behaviour could have prevented this crime from happening.

[Puwa]

The discussion in this thread has gone stale. Now we've reached the absurd stage in which everyone is restating what they have already said, which isn't necessary on a forum where all previous posts can be examined verbatim. We're about a half step away from name-calling.

My final contribution, I hope, is to wish the victim a full and speedy recovery and to wish Thailand will someday provide safer streets to the tourists it courts so openly and profits from so richly.

[roo860]

Sad that this happened. One punch in the adams apple and/or a kick would have stopped the animal me thinks - or a jump of the bike once she knew something was amiss - or all three perhaps. Most Thai guys aren't that big either. But, hey they were both drunk? Go figure. Again, it's too bad there are <deleted> out there like him.

And she would have probably ended up in intensive care

[bangmai]

Maybe they will do the civil case on a special episode of The People Court, International...The case of the: Circus Pants Circus.

[Chicog]

First you say the woman's not to blame and then you say she put herself in a situation where she cd get victimized and its her fault.

Which one is it?

I think what we are trying to say is that

1) it is definitely not her fault for being raped. she is the victim of a crime

2) she acted careless and as a result became vulnerable to be easily exploited by a criminal

1) and 2) are different things. Important to keep those apart.

I mentioned the analogy before. If you leave your car unlocked and someone steals something out of your car, it is not your fault for the theft having occurred. You are the victim, the thief is the criminal. However you could have prevented the theft by locking the car. You don't have to lock the car, it is up to you but it is highly recommended not to leave the car unlocked. Hope that helps in distinguishing between the actual crime that happened and what alternative behaviour could have prevented this crime from happening.

And don't forget of course that locking your car won't necessarily stop it being broken into.

[LarryBird]

I think one of the most important thing in a discussion like this is to have the last word.

[roo860]

True.

[MaeJoMTB]

When you post rubbish like this in a thread about a rape victim, your implication is very clear.

Can I suggest you think about what you're posting and stop being an ar$e.

Imply? I didn't imply anything. I very clearly stated that fact.

She put herself in a situation that greatly increased the risk of victimization. Can you honestly say that she didn't?

Alone at 2am in a strange place, getting into a vehicle with a strange man? She is NOT responsible for the crime. She's responsible for her own actions.

I was mugged in CM ......only time in my life.

It was around 2am, I was alone, drunk (actually not quite correct, I was drugged at Spicey, barman slipped something in my drink, couple of girls followed me as I staggered off), walking down quiet streets.

If I hadn't been out alone at 2am (in a high risk bar), it wouldn't have happened.

I put myself at risk, I can only blame myself.

[Sheryl]

The discussion in this thread has gone stale. Now we've reached the absurd stage in which everyone is restating what they have already said, which isn't necessary on a forum where all previous posts can be examined verbatim. We're about a half step away from name-calling.

My final contribution, I hope, is to wish the victim a full and speedy recovery and to wish Thailand will someday provide safer streets to the tourists it courts so openly and profits from so richly.

+1 to that. But I would add, safer streets for its own women as well.

Probably too much to ask, but one would also wish that someday the authorities would have a rational, practical response to events like this. They always seem to come in with not only inane comments but also sometimes inane and off-target measures.

I remember the horrible rape/murder in Samui some years back that was immediately followed by local police explaining that rapes were caused by foreign women sunbathing topless on deserted beaches. Never mind that the rape & murder had occurred on the most heavily populated beach on the island while the victim was fully clothed...and that most of the rapes on Samui likewise took place on heavily frequented beaches (why on earth would a rapist head for a deserted beach where it might take days on end for a victim to appear? ). A year ago I happened to be on that same beach a little after sunset and noted that still nothing had been done about lighting, there are still stretches of it next to vacant lots which are pitch black. For all the restaurants etc in the area, it would still be quite possible for someone to grab a woman off the beach and drag her into the brush without being seen.

From what I understand there is a problem in Pai in that there are tourist-frequented bars in the town, tourist accomodations outside of town, and no taxis etc to take people home, so foreigners have for lack of an alternative taken to bumming rides with locals. The much maligned victim was simply doing what has become normal practice, and for want of an alternative, but such a situation was an accident waiting to happen. Had it not been a rape, it might have been a robbery or a robbery-murder, and male tourists could also be victims.

The answer is obviously to address the transport problem. Since the authorities won't, let's hope the bar owners will. Wouldn't be that hard to arrange to recruit a few trustworthy (or at least known with their ID cards on file) locals with cars to provide for a taxi service at night for a fee, and to post a sign advising customers to use this and not hitchhike.

[MiKT]

When you post rubbish like this in a thread about a rape victim, your implication is very clear.

Can I suggest you think about what you're posting and stop being an ar$e.

Imply? I didn't imply anything. I very clearly stated that fact.

She put herself in a situation that greatly increased the risk of victimization. Can you honestly say that she didn't?

Alone at 2am in a strange place, getting into a vehicle with a strange man? She is NOT responsible for the crime. She's responsible for her own actions.

I was mugged in CM ......only time in my life.

It was around 2am, I was alone, drunk (actually not quite correct, I was drugged at Spicey, barman slipped something in my drink, couple of girls followed me as I staggered off), walking down quiet streets.

If I hadn't been out alone at 2am (in a high risk bar), it wouldn't have happened.

I put myself at risk, I can only blame myself.

So it was your own fault you were drunk and drugged simply because you were in a bar. Thus, to use your own words - you must have absolutely no respect for yourself.

Is this lack of self respect why you and your 2 faced banjo brained mate keep on blaming the victim by implication and denying it. I don't believe anybody who can post the insensitive "so not a fate worse than death" crap that you did can have a daughter. If you do God help her.

[MiKT]

The discussion in this thread has gone stale. Now we've reached the absurd stage in which everyone is restating what they have already said, which isn't necessary on a forum where all previous posts can be examined verbatim. We're about a half step away from name-calling.

My final contribution, I hope, is to wish the victim a full and speedy recovery and to wish Thailand will someday provide safer streets to the tourists it courts so openly and profits from so richly.

+1 to that. But I would add, safer streets for its own women as well.

Probably too much to ask, but one would also wish that someday the authorities would have a rational, practical response to events like this. They always seem to come in with not only inane comments but also sometimes inane and off-target measures.

I remember the horrible rape/murder in Samui some years back that was immediately followed by local police explaining that rapes were caused by foreign women sunbathing topless on deserted beaches. Never mind that the rape & murder had occurred on the most heavily populated beach on the island while the victim was fully clothed...and that most of the rapes on Samui likewise took place on heavily frequented beaches (why on earth would a rapist head for a deserted beach where it might take days on end for a victim to appear? ). A year ago I happened to be on that same beach a little after sunset and noted that still nothing had been done about lighting, there are still stretches of it next to vacant lots which are pitch black. For all the restaurants etc in the area, it would still be quite possible for someone to grab a woman off the beach and drag her into the brush without being seen.

From what I understand there is a problem in Pai in that there are tourist-frequented bars in the town, tourist accomodations outside of town, and no taxis etc to take people home, so foreigners have for lack of an alternative taken to bumming rides with locals. The much maligned victim was simply doing what has become normal practice, and for want of an alternative, but such a situation was an accident waiting to happen. Had it not been a rape, it might have been a robbery or a robbery-murder, and male tourists could also be victims.

The answer is obviously to address the transport problem. Since the authorities won't, let's hope the bar owners will. Wouldn't be that hard to arrange to recruit a few trustworthy (or at least known with their ID cards on file) locals with cars to provide for a taxi service at night for a fee, and to post a sign advising customers to use this and not hitchhike.

You are absolutely right, but what is wrong with this thread is that the victim is indeed "much maligned" because some posters cannot see that posting "helpful" advice to avoid going out at night and drinking is of no use or consolation to the victim who should be highly commended for putting herself through the ordeal with the police and not condemned by implication for being assaulted and raped because she ended up alone in a bar at 2AM.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The discussion in this thread has gone stale. Now we've reached the absurd stage in which everyone is restating what they have already said, which isn't necessary on a forum where all previous posts can be examined verbatim. We're about a half step away from name-calling.

My final contribution, I hope, is to wish the victim a full and speedy recovery and to wish Thailand will someday provide safer streets to the tourists it courts so openly and profits from so richly.

+1 to that. But I would add, safer streets for its own women as well.

Probably too much to ask, but one would also wish that someday the authorities would have a rational, practical response to events like this. They always seem to come in with not only inane comments but also sometimes inane and off-target measures.

I remember the horrible rape/murder in Samui some years back that was immediately followed by local police explaining that rapes were caused by foreign women sunbathing topless on deserted beaches. Never mind that the rape & murder had occurred on the most heavily populated beach on the island while the victim was fully clothed...and that most of the rapes on Samui likewise took place on heavily frequented beaches (why on earth would a rapist head for a deserted beach where it might take days on end for a victim to appear? ). A year ago I happened to be on that same beach a little after sunset and noted that still nothing had been done about lighting, there are still stretches of it next to vacant lots which are pitch black. For all the restaurants etc in the area, it would still be quite possible for someone to grab a woman off the beach and drag her into the brush without being seen.

From what I understand there is a problem in Pai in that there are tourist-frequented bars in the town, tourist accomodations outside of town, and no taxis etc to take people home, so foreigners have for lack of an alternative taken to bumming rides with locals. The much maligned victim was simply doing what has become normal practice, and for want of an alternative, but such a situation was an accident waiting to happen. Had it not been a rape, it might have been a robbery or a robbery-murder, and male tourists could also be victims.

The answer is obviously to address the transport problem. Since the authorities won't, let's hope the bar owners will. Wouldn't be that hard to arrange to recruit a few trustworthy (or at least known with their ID cards on file) locals with cars to provide for a taxi service at night for a fee, and to post a sign advising customers to use this and not hitchhike.

That's the most sense anyone has made on the forum today.