bamukloy Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Not to mention that newcomers will possibly get the idea that if they are caught on the street the authorities will also be tolerant. That would be a big mistake! Likewise if people like this are only clearing their overstays now, ie "clearing the slate" so they can overstay again but the fine wont be as bad minus the 9 years already accrued. well they are pretty silly and deserve to have the book thrown at them. IMO if they overstay multiple times and get caught, they should be prosecuted for the total time overstayed throughout their entire immigration history But no-one would be that silly would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilo Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 There have been reports that even where an individual has been deported and detained in the IDC (barring any other criminal convictions/warrants) they have been able to return with no apparent difficulty. Perhaps it is a difference between a de facto and a de jure position but up until now Thai immigration have been extremely tolerant of overstayers. However it would be most inadvisable for anyone to extrapolate from this that it will remain the same in the future and to conclude that it is okay to overstay. I am relieved and grateful that they were so amenable and gracious to allow my overstay to be dealt with without it ever being subsequently raised to any extent save for when I first attempted to re-enter visa exempt. My points are to try to demonstrate to those who are worried about attempting to legitimise their status that it is still possible and that the immigration officials I have interacted with both in clearing the overstay and subsequently have been nothing but professional and polite in their dealings with me and I in turn was prepared to accept whatever was going to be the consequences. The facts are that barring any other criminal matters and having the money to pay the fine along with a ticket out then as at this moment it is possible to exit and re-enter without undue difficulty and that even where an individual has been deported this in and of itself does not (as yet) bar future entry into Thailand. Just for the record I do not advocate overstaying and will continue to strive to avoid it for as long as I remain here but it is still not an impossible matter to deal with and those are the facts as they currently apply. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 There have been reports that even where an individual has been deported and detained in the IDC (barring any other criminal convictions/warrants) they have been able to return with no apparent difficulty. Perhaps it is a difference between a de facto and a de jure position but up until now Thai immigration have been extremely tolerant of overstayers. However it would be most inadvisable for anyone to extrapolate from this that it will remain the same in the future and to conclude that it is okay to overstay. I am relieved and grateful that they were so amenable and gracious to allow my overstay to be dealt with without it ever being subsequently raised to any extent save for when I first attempted to re-enter visa exempt. My points are to try to demonstrate to those who are worried about attempting to legitimise their status that it is still possible and that the immigration officials I have interacted with both in clearing the overstay and subsequently have been nothing but professional and polite in their dealings with me and I in turn was prepared to accept whatever was going to be the consequences. The facts are that barring any other criminal matters and having the money to pay the fine along with a ticket out then as at this moment it is possible to exit and re-enter without undue difficulty and that even where an individual has been deported this in and of itself does not (as yet) bar future entry into Thailand. Just for the record I do not advocate overstaying and will continue to strive to avoid it for as long as I remain here but it is still not an impossible matter to deal with and those are the facts as they currently apply. I understand what you are saying, but deporting people for overstaying isn't showing tolerance. Charging 20k being the maximum possible under law for an overstay is not tolerance. Allowing someone that voluntarily surrendered to re-enter having overstayed is not tolerance because the law says they can. Where the TIB have gone wrong is not applying the law and excluding those that got caught/deported from coming back in. That isn't being tolerant of overstaying but lenient with the punishment. The only way to solve this increasing problem is to ban people because that is what hurts the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Arguing over semantics really. Lenience and tolerance are quite similar. I think Thailand has the right approach, there's nothing inherently wrong with simply existing within a country's borders for too long, especially one set up so you can't be a net drain on the system. It's what you do on overstay that matters - is the person overstaying to commit crimes, be a public nuisance etc. or is their existence exactly the same as if they happened to have the correct visa. If there's no evidence of criminal activity then why ban people from coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Arguing over semantics really. Lenience and tolerance are quite similar. I think Thailand has the right approach, there's nothing inherently wrong with simply existing within a country's borders for too long, especially one set up so you can't be a net drain on the system. It's what you do on overstay that matters - is the person overstaying to commit crimes, be a public nuisance etc. or is their existence exactly the same as if they happened to have the correct visa. If there's no evidence of criminal activity then why ban people from coming back. No. Tolerance means a willingness to allow the behaviour. Is English your second language or were you just poorly educated? Your problem is that you don't respect the rules of the country you're a guest in. "there's nothing inherently wrong with simply existing within a country's border for too long". Overstaying is a crime. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Surveys suggest the average person commits several crimes a day. It's more important to consider which ones actually affect people and why each law exists. Overstay laws are there as a deterrent against criminality. However if some isn't actually a criminal while on overstay then I don't take issue with them nor wish them to be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Surveys suggest the average person commits several crimes a day. It's more important to consider which ones actually affect people and why each law exists. Overstay laws are there as a deterrent against criminality. However if some isn't actually a criminal while on overstay then I don't take issue with them nor wish them to be banned. As an overstayer yourself I'm not surprised you don't want the bans to happen. It doesn't bother or affect me (yet) if someone overstays. But overstaying is still a crime because it breaks the law. Forget your spin. It's a fact. My only real opinion on the subject is that the penalties are not a deterrent and if they want to cut down on overstayers they need to start banning people. As it stands I could just keep 50k in an account and forget about immigration laws. If I get arrested and deported I could put up with a couple of days in the VIP rooms at the IDC. I'd have flights booked as soon as they gave me access to the internet and I'd be back in Thailand within days. However, if I knew I was going to get banned there's no way I'd overstay. Yes people do break the law in many ways, but as with most of your justifications the point is irrelevant regardless of who it affects. Law breaking doesn't justify more law breaking. Overstay laws having nothing to do with deterring criminality other than the act of overstaying itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Another inflammatory post has been removed bringing up topic that has not been active for a few days. The OP has already gotten the info he needed. Topic now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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