Court sentences two redshirt guards to life imprisonment for grenade attack on PDRC rally

[phoenixdoglover]

On the plus side, I am happy to see this was the "Criminal Court", rather than a military court, that handed down this verdict and sentencing.

I would hope we can all agree that there is no place for this sort of violent action by any side.

While I don't believe the Junta had sufficient justification for their coup, It is also obvious the near daily violence in Bangkok was intolerable. The previous government failed to stop it, and that is a huge black mark for them.

On the other hand...life sentence, commuted to 43 years...that's pretty extreme. I would hope these guys serve 10 to 20 years.

Failed to stop it ?. Are you serious ?.

And you might have been taking a nap, but this sort of violence only comes from one side.

The UDD are very tightly coupled with Pheu-Thai. They would never do this without orders from the top.

It was state sanctioned terrorism. Nothing less.

Here is one example of how the opposition was also responsible for violence.

Feb 21, 2014 (CNN)

"After police fired tear gas in an attempt to disperse crowds of demonstrators in the streets, people among the protesters began firing guns at police. With the two sides about 200 meters (656 feet) apart, police responded by firing rubber bullets and live ammunition. During the firefight, which lasted about 20 minutes, a grenade exploded near a group of police officers, knocking them to the ground. At least four of them were wounded, said Lt. Gen. Paradon Patthanathabut, the national security chief."

There is little doubt the majority of violent actions in 2014 were committed by "pro government" factions, but your assertion that they were the only ones to commit violence is false.

Further, your assertion that the violence was orchestrated at the top is unsubstantiated, and inflammatory to say the least. Do you (ever) have any news reports or other links to substantiate your opinions?

Seems I was right, the dye hard red denialists are doing their best...

'phoenixdoglover' it is, indeed, 'inflammatory to say the least' to spin it as far away as possible from these two redshirt(!) convicted(!) terrorists'(!) in the way you attempt to do it, can you, f.i. please 'substantiate' your assertion that the violence would NOT have been orchestrated at the top of... the PTP, their 'armed faction' UDD (the 'government' at the time)?

How can you deny such attacks wouldn't have had any possible 'chance' to be perpetrated when they would not have been 'orchestrated' by the, call it top or sub-top, I don't care, of the red movement, the UDD, with at least the participation, or knowledge of by, the PTP idem!

Classic logical fallacy on your part. It is not possible to "prove a negative" as you request. Try again.

[Alwyn]

Peacefull redshirts, hmm, Jatu, Natta, Weng, Tida &Co., UDD was not involved in violence, never... Oh well, the denialists will spin out of this one too I guess.

You shouldn't judge others by your own standards. Nobody in the right mind would try and put a spin on this, they held their hands up and pleaded. They should be shot.

[bangrak]

(This is not 'off-topic' as some red denialists seem to find it usefull for their crummy theories to allude to the 2010 cataclysm, another good reason being this topic is about the same group of thugs committing the same kind of crimes against humanity)

I've been wondering why the NCPO did not have those files dug up concerning the investigation about the person(s) who financed the 2010 red insurgency and red + black terrorist acts. A Thaksin pawn AG had made public, safely three weeks after his retirement, that he had not been able to prosecute suspected persons because they were not residing in Thailand (in short)...

I guess, and hope, those files did not 'vanish' (as it alas more often happens in the judicial system when 'influential people' might be treathened...), and will once lead to Court actions!

Or is that 'Flying Dutchman' of a 'reconciliation' thing, from before the start already, making it too hard to come up with the truth of facts, because these might be very confronting for the puppeteer(s) who is(are) pulling the strings of UDD and PTP, and might chase him(them) into the curtains high enough for him(them) to 'sponsor' another big round of manic violence in the country? When the NCPO or whoever might be afraid of that, this would be a, very, bad omen for any better balanced future this country should evolve to, IMHO.

Edited November 6, 2015 by bangrak

[bangrak]

Peacefull redshirts, hmm, Jatu, Natta, Weng, Tida &Co., UDD was not involved in violence, never... Oh well, the denialists will spin out of this one too I guess.

You shouldn't judge others by your own standards. Nobody in the right mind would try and put a spin on this, they held their hands up and pleaded. They should be shot.

A-rai na kap? Could you please re-phrase: '...they held their hands up and pleaded. They should be shot.', I don't understand what you mean? Thank you

[bangrak]

'phoenixdoglover' #36: Let me make it more simple for you: do you believe a few (two?) 'modal' Thais, meaning rather low-educated, with small financial means, and little free-time, could be able to organise and execute such a terrorist(!) attack on their own?

YES or NO?

Just that, please, thank you for your genuine reply!

(N.B., not for you, for other potential readers: with all the 'ingredients' it supposes, comparable to a commando operation: target I.D., 'intel', planning, material, logistics, transport, 'support', 'recons', protection, execution, get away, etc., + the MONEY for it all)

Edited November 6, 2015 by bangrak

[Alwyn]

Peacefull redshirts, hmm, Jatu, Natta, Weng, Tida &Co., UDD was not involved in violence, never... Oh well, the denialists will spin out of this one too I guess.

You shouldn't judge others by your own standards. Nobody in the right mind would try and put a spin on this, they held their hands up and pleaded. They should be shot.

A-rai na kap? Could you please re-phrase: '...they held their hands up and pleaded. They should be shot.', I don't understand what you mean? Thank you

They pleaded guilty. They should be shot for this heinous crime that could have prematurely ended a lot of lives. Better?

Edited November 6, 2015 by Alwyn

[fred Kubasa]

Sentenced them to many more years but reduced to 43 years and 4 MONTHS even though Thai law states must be released in no more then 20 years in prison.

Now why would a judge, any judge, anywhere, set a sentence that cannot be

carried out and why the 4 MONTHS ? Next time, same crime sentenced to

43years, 4 months, 2 weeks, 3 days and 9 hours ?

[fasteddie]

On the plus side, I am happy to see this was the "Criminal Court", rather than a military court, that handed down this verdict and sentencing.

I would hope we can all agree that there is no place for this sort of violent action by any side.

While I don't believe the Junta had sufficient justification for their coup, It is also obvious the near daily violence in Bangkok was intolerable. The previous government failed to stop it, and that is a huge black mark for them.

On the other hand...life sentence, commuted to 43 years...that's pretty extreme. I would hope these guys serve 10 to 20 years.

Failed to stop it ?. Are you serious ?.

And you might have been taking a nap, but this sort of violence only comes from one side.

The UDD are very tightly coupled with Pheu-Thai. They would never do this without orders from the top.

It was state sanctioned terrorism. Nothing less.

"but this sort of violence only comes from one side"

Oh please, even a die hard fascist such as yourself couldn't believe such lies, and neither do the rest of us.

[fasteddie]

'phoenixdoglover' #36: Let me make it more simple for you: do you believe a few (two?) 'modal' Thais, meaning rather low-educated, with small financial means, and little free-time, could be able to organise and execute such a terrorist(!) attack on their own?

YES or NO?

Just that, please, thank you for your genuine reply!

(N.B., not for you, for other potential readers: with all the 'ingredients' it supposes, comparable to a commando operation: target I.D., 'intel', planning, material, logistics, transport, 'support', 'recons', protection, execution, get away, etc., + the MONEY for it all)

Oi mate, there's a protest going on quick grab a grenade, jump on bike, ride there, lob grenade, escape, there, easy peasy,

"comparable to a commando operation: target I.D., 'intel', planning, material, logistics, transport, 'support', 'recons', protection, execution, get away, etc., + the MONEY for it all)"

Edited November 6, 2015 by fasteddie

[phoenixdoglover]

'phoenixdoglover' #36: Let me make it more simple for you: do you believe a few (two?) 'modal' Thais, meaning rather low-educated, with small financial means, and little free-time, could be able to organise and execute such a terrorist(!) attack on their own?

YES or NO?

Just that, please, thank you for your genuine reply!

(N.B., not for you, for other potential readers: with all the 'ingredients' it supposes, comparable to a commando operation: target I.D., 'intel', planning, material, logistics, transport, 'support', 'recons', protection, execution, get away, etc., + the MONEY for it all)

Oi mate, there's a protest going on quick grab a grenade, jump on bike, ride there, lob grenade, escape, there, easy peasy,

"comparable to a commando operation: target I.D., 'intel', planning, material, logistics, transport, 'support', 'recons', protection, execution, get away, etc., + the MONEY for it all)"

Yes, I wasn't thinking the logistics all that challenging either. They were UDD guards. Presumably they knew who among their friends had weapons. An old M79 grenade launcher is not that rare. One grenade. Go to protest site. Fire grenade. Run away.

[halloween]

Yes, I wasn't thinking the logistics all that challenging either. They were UDD guards. Presumably they knew who among their friends had weapons. An old M79 grenade launcher is not that rare. One grenade. Go to protest site. Fire grenade. Run away.

Not that old really. Do you not remember the factory owner who came forward in 2010 because he was commissioned to make parts for M-79 launchers?

BTW the UDD leaders have clearly stated their position. You don't suspect that such upstanding citizens might possibly LIE? Those friends with weapons, would they likely be social acquaintances or work colleagues?

[anon4546543]

To halloween. An m79 launcher is a really simple version of a shotgun. You could make one with 40mm pipe, a flat ended nail, duck tape and a small hammer. The problem is the ammunition. Someone had to supply this hi tech ammo. Unless ammunition security is lax in the military of Thailand, I would assume it is hard to acquire. QED. Either way, the scumbags that chose to fire a lethal round into a crowd of people are deserving of a lifetime penalty. They could maybe plea bargain to say who gave the orders. These are the ones that should face a firing squad. The fact that the low ranking idiot scumbags could not hit a target is irrelevant. It is their intent that is being judged and they got what they deserved.

[darhut]

43 years for a failed attempt and 20.ooo THB of damage!

Actually kill 9 people while driving in car, without license...48 hours of community work!

Something seems a bit off, here!

Sure the drivers sentence was way too light but an accident, what sentence would you recommend for firing a grenade at a group of people with intent to kill, the only reason no one was killed was they were incompetent.

[craigt3365]

Once again the court shows injustice. The court is not color blind it knows they were Red. If they weren't read they get 30 days and a 500 baht fine.

Not sure what the final outcome was, but here's at least one from the PDRC who's being charged. Don't be so one sided...gets old....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754789-bangkok-popcorn-gunman-denies-weapons-charges/

[MZurf]

Once again the court shows injustice. The court is not color blind it knows they were Red. If they weren't read they get 30 days and a 500 baht fine.

Not sure what the final outcome was, but here's at least one from the PDRC who's being charged. Don't be so one sided...gets old....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754789-bangkok-popcorn-gunman-denies-weapons-charges/

Pointing out that the courts in Thailand are not color blind is not old, it's merely the truth. They get 43 years for damaging some ear drums and many criminals who actually kill people get a fraction of that.

Don't get me wrong, what they did certainly was despicable and they should get incarcerated but if this wasn't political they would never have gotten such a lengthy sentence.

Edited November 7, 2015 by MZurf

[craigt3365]

It cuts both ways. When the PTP was in power, no reds were prosecuted. I'm seeing it cut both ways now. Except with the military, police or well connected individuals.

I think the sentence is too much. But it was attempted murder. The pole got in the way otherwise many would have died. You have to punish the intent, not just the outcome.

[DM07]

43 years for a failed attempt and 20.ooo THB of damage!

Actually kill 9 people while driving in car, without license...48 hours of community work!

Something seems a bit off, here!

Sure the drivers sentence was way too light but an accident, what sentence would you recommend for firing a grenade at a group of people with intent to kill, the only reason no one was killed was they were incompetent.

Okay, here are some more "accidents" for you:

Chalerm's son= not a day in jail!

the red bull heir= dito

the Santika owner= 3 years! I guess, it was also only a tragic accident, that all the emergency escapes were blocked!

These guys actually killed people!

They didn't "attempt" to...they did!

Do I think, the grenade throwers should be punished?

Hell yeah!

Do I think, it is a little out of proportion, with no one actually hurt?

Yes, I do!

[EnglishJohn]

43 years for a failed attempt and 20.ooo THB of damage!

Actually kill 9 people while driving in car, without license...48 hours of community work!

Something seems a bit off, here!

Sure the drivers sentence was way too light but an accident, what sentence would you recommend for firing a grenade at a group of people with intent to kill, the only reason no one was killed was they were incompetent.

Okay, here are some more "accidents" for you:

Chalerm's son= not a day in jail!

the red bull heir= dito

the Santika owner= 3 years! I guess, it was also only a tragic accident, that all the emergency escapes were blocked!

These guys actually killed people!

They didn't "attempt" to...they did!

Do I think, the grenade throwers should be punished?

Hell yeah!

Do I think, it is a little out of proportion, with no one actually hurt?

Yes, I do!

Intent is everything. Apart from Chalerms Son, the others did not set out with the intent to kill anyone. They are just typical Thais with no regard for anything except their own little life.

Firing a grenade (a nasty weapon) into a crowd is a truly, truly evil thing to do. He expected it to explode in the middle of those people before he pulled the trigger.

[metisdead]

A post containing a derogatory generalization toward Thais has been removed as well as a reply.

[bangrak]

It cuts both ways. When the PTP was in power, no reds were prosecuted. I'm seeing it cut both ways now. Except with the military, police or well connected individuals.

I think the sentence is too much. But it was attempted murder. The pole got in the way otherwise many would have died. You have to punish the intent, not just the outcome.

Sorry,but this was not 'attempted murder', it was a 'terrorists attack' that luckily failed (how to qualify the use of military grade weaponry to shoot grenades at civilians with the intention to kill and wound as many as possible?)!

[craigt3365]

It cuts both ways. When the PTP was in power, no reds were prosecuted. I'm seeing it cut both ways now. Except with the military, police or well connected individuals.

I think the sentence is too much. But it was attempted murder. The pole got in the way otherwise many would have died. You have to punish the intent, not just the outcome.

Sorry,but this was not 'attempted murder', it was a 'terrorists attack' that luckily failed (how to qualify the use of military grade weaponry to shoot grenades at civilians with the intention to kill and wound as many as possible?)!

Semantics. It was definitely an attempt to murder people. And might well fall under the category of terrorist attack....attempted.

[phoenixdoglover]

"I "dislike" the redshirts more than I could ever put into words because of what they have done to Thailand."

And exactly what is it they have done to Thailand that hasn't been done before?

"Receiving ill-gotten money from a fugitive/criminal to do the dirty work for a criminal organization disguised as a political party."

Dismissing the whole red movement as merely a criminal organization is disengenious, to put it politely. The vast majority of red shirts are ordinary people with legitimate concerns, just like on the yellow side.

"The only thing I dislike more are the people who should know better, who support them or any other group who kill and burn for money."

What I dislike intensely are foreigners who have been raised in democratic countries but easily accept/embrace military rule in Thailand. There have been 19 coups since 1932 and none of them have solved anything at all. What in the world makes you guys believe that anything will be different this time is beyond me!

If you want anyone to respect you, you need to disassociate yourself from the UDD and people like Jatuporn and Thaksin. Form your own colour and denounce all the disgusting things done by either side and we will agree with you.

Because your leaders represent the base level of greed, lies and total lack of ethics. And in Thailand, that is quite a title to earn. While you argue in support of the things they do, you are going to be tarred with the same brush by us farang who have grown up under something better and can see them for what they are.

What makes you think Mzurf is "associated" with the UDD or Thaksin? Because he has a point of view that does not reject them out-of-hand?

The world is not black and white. The members of UDD are not universally evil. Thai Army Generals are not universally power hungry maniacs.

[anon4546543]

I still don't get why so many farangs want to discuss Thai politics. I live in a rural area. The wonderful, hardworking and tolerant locals here are being screwed. The only asset they have is the value of the land. They live two steps above poverty and unless there was a sense of social cohesion, many would die in poverty. And they all abhor the terrorism of one party and the complete lack of indifference from the other. These are the mainstream Thais, the backbone of the country. I see so many disparaging comments made about the ethics, compassion and integrity of Thai people. Most of you posters try so hard to be ignorant, racist and contemptible. Get over the politics of Thailand, you are farang and you should not be trying to interfere. You are guests here. Grab a life and get out and enjoy some real life and try hard not to be losers.

[mikemac]

43 years for a failed attempt and 20.ooo THB of damage!

Actually kill 9 people while driving in car, without license...48 hours of community work!

Something seems a bit off, here!

Sure the drivers sentence was way too light but an accident, what sentence would you recommend for firing a grenade at a group of people with intent to kill, the only reason no one was killed was they were incompetent.

The supporters of these paid murderers have nothing to back them up with so they compare their actions to the sins of others.

The penalty given to a driver who has an accident and kills people has nothing to do with the penalty redshirts received.

A big difference between "a failed attempt" at murdering innocent people and a traffic accident.

Redshirts are terrorists and all terrorists should be behind bars where they cannot harm anyone.

[bangrak]

It cuts both ways. When the PTP was in power, no reds were prosecuted. I'm seeing it cut both ways now. Except with the military, police or well connected individuals.

I think the sentence is too much. But it was attempted murder. The pole got in the way otherwise many would have died. You have to punish the intent, not just the outcome.

Sorry,but this was not 'attempted murder', it was a 'terrorists attack' that luckily failed (how to qualify the use of military grade weaponry to shoot grenades at civilians with the intention to kill and wound as many as possible?)!

Semantics. It was definitely an attempt to murder people. And might well fall under the category of terrorist attack....attempted.

No doubt terrorists caught after a botched attack would appreciate your opinion very much, that their despicable attempted crime-against-humanity(!) was in fact 'only' an 'attempted murder'... I wonder whether their attorneys would dare it to plead in front of a Court that there is no difference, ... just 'semantics'?!

[craigt3365]

I still don't get why so many farangs want to discuss Thai politics. I live in a rural area. The wonderful, hardworking and tolerant locals here are being screwed. The only asset they have is the value of the land. They live two steps above poverty and unless there was a sense of social cohesion, many would die in poverty. And they all abhor the terrorism of one party and the complete lack of indifference from the other. These are the mainstream Thais, the backbone of the country. I see so many disparaging comments made about the ethics, compassion and integrity of Thai people. Most of you posters try so hard to be ignorant, racist and contemptible. Get over the politics of Thailand, you are farang and you should not be trying to interfere. You are guests here. Grab a life and get out and enjoy some real life and try hard not to be losers.

Many of us live here. Have families here. Own property here. Run a business. Pay taxes. And been here for many years. Etc. We absolutely have a right to express our opinions and even try to influence this country for the better.

[craigt3365]

It cuts both ways. When the PTP was in power, no reds were prosecuted. I'm seeing it cut both ways now. Except with the military, police or well connected individuals.

I think the sentence is too much. But it was attempted murder. The pole got in the way otherwise many would have died. You have to punish the intent, not just the outcome.

Sorry,but this was not 'attempted murder', it was a 'terrorists attack' that luckily failed (how to qualify the use of military grade weaponry to shoot grenades at civilians with the intention to kill and wound as many as possible?)!

Semantics. It was definitely an attempt to murder people. And might well fall under the category of terrorist attack....attempted.

No doubt terrorists caught after a botched attack would appreciate your opinion very much, that their despicable attempted crime-against-humanity(!) was in fact 'only' an 'attempted murder'... I wonder whether their attorneys would dare it to plead in front of a Court that there is no difference, ... just 'semantics'?!

We're both on the same page! I'm saying just because it was attempted doesn't mean it should be a lesser penalty. Should be the same. But considering others have gotten less, for actually killing people during protests, this seems to be one of the longer sentences handed? Just a question...

[bangrak]

43 years for a failed attempt and 20.ooo THB of damage!

Actually kill 9 people while driving in car, without license...48 hours of community work!

Something seems a bit off, here!

Sure the drivers sentence was way too light but an accident, what sentence would you recommend for firing a grenade at a group of people with intent to kill, the only reason no one was killed was they were incompetent.

Okay, here are some more "accidents" for you:

Chalerm's son= not a day in jail!

the red bull heir= dito

the Santika owner= 3 years! I guess, it was also only a tragic accident, that all the emergency escapes were blocked!

These guys actually killed people!

They didn't "attempt" to...they did!

Do I think, the grenade throwers should be punished?

Hell yeah!

Do I think, it is a little out of proportion, with no one actually hurt?

Yes, I do!

Can't you see a difference, 'no one actually hurt' IS the 'accident' in this terrorist(!) attack, what went 'wrong' for the perpetrators materialised by some post and antenna standing in the trajectory of the grenades???

The INTENTION here was to kill and wound as many peacefull civilians as possible, the other people you write about, with the exception of Chalerm's son(!), committed (a) homicide(s) but had no intention to kill, they should IMO too have been harshly punished by the Courts, but, alas, weren't, for the, very bad, reasons we know.

For many, other, red terrorists, at least the ones who were already prosecuted in front of a Court(...) in the end it went the same way as for Chalerm's son: acquitted 'because of lack of, or inconclusive, evidence'... Unbelievable but true!

Edited November 7, 2015 by bangrak

[springheeled jack]

I wonder what was the purpose of throwing 2 grenades what was their intention there was obviously no direction involved all they managed to do was cause damage to an antenna .

[phoenixdoglover]

I wonder what was the purpose of throwing 2 grenades what was their intention there was obviously no direction involved all they managed to do was cause damage to an antenna .

I was in Bangkok in early April 2014, and managed to be in the middle of one of the street demonstrations. There were people everywhere and no crowd control by the police.

When you review the news accounts of the attacks in Bangkok in the January - May 2014 time frame, it is clear that some of the attacks were carried out at times and places to limit the possibility of injuries or deaths. (On the other hand, some of the attacks were obviously designed to hurt people).

The M79 grenade is launched by a gun that looks like a large bore shotgun. It has limited accuracy, but it could be used to deliberately hit a crowd or miss a crowd.

I guess, even though the suspects confessed, we're not going to be told by the officials and media what their intent was.

I do know, based on my personal experiences with those crowds that it would be easy to harm people if that was the intent.

Anyway, regardless, it was a heinous crime, and punishment is well deserved.

Edited November 7, 2015 by phoenixdoglover