METV Visa - Vientiane, Laos. It's official.

[No Apologist]

As posted before, visa runs are finished. If you are wanting to stay in Thailand for an extended period then get the correct visa for which your purpose of stay correlates to.

Apply for a tourist visa from your home Thailand consulate. The visa run days of back to back are history. Get the correct visa.

And your position in Thai Immigration office is?

genuine tourists stay 1-2 months maximum, a person residing in Thailand for an extended period being facilitated by border runs for the purpose of back to back TV's is not considered a genuine tourist.

Those days are gone.

I'm sure you, yourself, are more than legitimate though. It's funny how it always works that way.

Edited November 6, 2015 by No Apologist

[jspill]

I highly doubt that back to back METV will be allowed, defeats the whole point of the visa, ie, to get rid of long term tourists living in Thailand.

Or encouraging and streamlining tourists that have enough funds such that they don't need to work in a Thai Baht paid job, or turn to criminal activity.

I'm sure the details will be announced about back to back METV and by mid June 2016 people will find out when METV expires.

It would make more sense if they do allow back to back METVs.

That's a lot of paperwork they're asking for, it proves (as effectively as is possible) that someone doesn't have any incentive to work for a Thai employer or turn to criminal activity.

It's also similar to the paperwork they asked for in order to issue more than 3-4 double-entry tourist visas at Laos, but as Kitsune said they had difficulty verifying foreign bank statements there. So it seems like a way of allowing for longer stays, but just making people apply at home so documents can be verified by staff members native to everybody's country, it's easier to make phonecalls and check things in the right timezone, etc.

Also if they wanted to create a limit, why not just limit the existing double-entry tourist visa to one?

And finally, not a single consulate yet has said they can't be obtained back to back.

Side bet?

Edited November 8, 2015 by Maestro

[tonbridgebrit]

Can't imagine them shifting many of them.

Still though, number of genuine tourists affected, close to zero.

Number of hanger ons that cannot get a long-term visa but refuse to leave voluntarily, lots and lots.

Aliens have no birth-right to stay here.

If you are married to a local, have a child with a local, study here, work here, are retired here, are volunterring here, there are easy ways to get the appropriate visas and extensions no bother at all.

95%+ of tourists here don't even need a visa and simply enjoy the great V.E. that Thailand offers.

As the Gen has said "Good foreigners in, bad foreigners out"

You've got to bear in mind that there are a vast number of foreigners living in Thailand, who are under 50, and don't want to get married to a Thai lady. These people have been using the tourist visas to stay here for ages. Yes, this new rule might force a lot of them to leave Thailand. That's a vast number of people. I think it will result in a lot of lost income for Thailand.

Some of these foreigners have taken up teaching English in order to get a visa to stay in Thailand. But we all know that a whole load of these teachers have been told that they don't actually qualify for the work permit to be a teacher. There qualifications are simply not good enough for the Thai government.

[No Apologist]

Screen Shot 2558-11-06 at 3.05.55 PM.png

Hold on a minute. You need to show a letter of employment ? Some people don't actually work, but do actually have over 200,000 baht (4,000 pounds) in their bank account. Then what ?

It's not about having enough funds to be in Thailand, it's about feeling assured that you couldn't stay, even if you wanted to. They have no social system to take advantage of, so none of it is really about people having enough money or not. It's that the new leadership is freaked out about foreign examples/influence on the populace, and wants a return to isolationism. A 'return to Thainess' translates to a father saying, 'You can't see that boy anymore'.

Edited November 6, 2015 by No Apologist

[baboon]

As posted before, visa runs are finished. If you are wanting to stay in Thailand for an extended period then get the correct visa for which your purpose of stay correlates to.

Apply for a tourist visa from your home Thailand consulate. The visa run days of back to back are history. Get the correct visa.

And your position in Thai Immigration office is?

genuine tourists stay 1-2 months maximum, a person residing in Thailand for an extended period being facilitated by border runs for the purpose of back to back TV's is not considered a genuine tourist.

Those days are gone.

I'm sure you, yourself, are more than legitimate though. It's funny how it always works that way.

I think it is more a forlorn hope in some cases that fewer foreigners around will somehow transform them into Jagger...

[jspill]

Screen Shot 2558-11-06 at 3.05.55 PM.png

Hold on a minute. You need to show a letter of employment ? Some people don't actually work, but do actually have over 200,000 baht (4,000 pounds) in their bank account. Then what ?

They might not enforce all requirements on their list.

It's actually always been a listed requirement to show 20,000 Baht and onward flight tickets when applying for a tourist visa, but they rarely ever enforce that.

Source - http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

A poster was also told that rules would be enforced flexibly, when he phoned to ask http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/867234-metv-im-confused/page-9#entry10038379

Edited November 6, 2015 by jspill

[uptheos]

How do you apply by mail from a nearby country?

Recorded delivery to a family member back home, then they send it, and return address is theirs, then they send to you in Hong Kong or wherever.

Lots of threads on it, with moderators confirming it breaks no laws as far as Thailand is concerned.

But does it break the law of the country you are sending it from?

[tribalfusion001]

I highly doubt that back to back METV will be allowed, defeats the whole point of the visa, ie, to get rid of long term tourists living in Thailand.

Or encouraging and streamlining tourists that have enough funds such that they don't need to work in a Thai Baht paid job, or turn to criminal activity.

I'm sure the details will be announced about back to back METV and by mid June 2016 people will find out when METV expires.

It would make more sense if they do allow back to back METVs.

That's a lot of paperwork they're asking for, it proves (as effectively as is possible) that someone doesn't have any incentive to work for a Thai employer or turn to criminal activity.

It's also similar to the paperwork they asked for in order to issue more than 3-4 double-entry tourist visas at Laos, but as Kitsune said they had difficulty verifying foreign bank statements there. So it seems like a way of allowing for longer stays, but just making people apply at home so documents can be verified by staff members native to everybody's country, it's easier to make phonecalls and check things in the right timezone, etc.

Also if they wanted to create a limit, why not just limit the existing double-entry tourist visa to one?

And finally, not a single consulate yet has said they can't be obtained back to back.

Side bet?

I'm not a betting man, but who knows what this lot have planned!

[alocacoc]

What speaks against a ED Visa? I never used one, but why not. I could learn English.

[tonbridgebrit]

Screen Shot 2558-11-06 at 3.05.55 PM.png

Hold on a minute. You need to show a letter of employment ? Some people don't actually work, but do actually have over 200,000 baht (4,000 pounds) in their bank account. Then what ?

They might not enforce all requirements on their list.

It's actually always been a listed requirement to show 20,000 Baht when applying for a tourist visa, but they rarely ever ask people.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

Thanks for reminding me ! I've applied for the tourist visa loads of times, and I've never been asked for "evidence of travel from Thailand. and evidence of adequate finance".

Maybe, maybe, all they will do is make it so that you can only apply for the METV in your home country. No need to actually show letter of employment, or bank account with 200,000 baht (4,000 pounds) that's been there for six months ! And hopefully, you don't have to show the aeroplane ticket either. I mean, it would be a massive problem if you bought the plane ticket, and they then decided to not give you the METV !

[kanook]

4). Erosion of Thainess by cultural long term foreigners staying here

- Possibly, but then this is not a problem being solved, but rather a fear being prevented and would be more similar to the recent stopping alcohol sales rule 300 meters of a school, which is more a moral judgement and not really problem solving.

It's unquestionably #4, and you forgot to include, that Thailand has no social-system / welfare for any of those 'horrible foreigners' to take advantage of. Foreigners of any type - overstayers, back to back'ers, and no matter where they are from - all have to pay for rent, food, medical, everything that benefits an economy. Angry guys here will shout that 'cheap charlies and backpackers aren't needed!', but the xenophobia ushered in a year ago last May had a verifiably huge effect on the economy, and each step like this will continue to. I know partly because of how many Thais I know who run apartment buildings and shops - they've been very anxious since about losing so much of the revenue their businesses had been based on (and decent, hard working Thai people have suffered for it, I know).

The only mistake would be assuming that rationality would be turned to, once anger and paranoia take over. The current goverment is fine with an economy driven back to the dirt, because that means control. And as you say, the less examples of others knowing more freedoms, the better. And, there's no pesky vote to be concerned about anymore, so there's no motivation to conceed anything.

I think you make many valid points. The biggest problem is that it is illegal to talk about those who are really responsible for all the recent changes that have affected foreigners and caused genuine hardship to many Thais. I wish my neck was longer so I could bury my head in the sand like so many others do.

[No Apologist]

I think they want 2 week Chinese tourists and westerners who have enough money for 6 months, then go home, anyone else, not wanted!

It's not really about 'enough money' though. There is that cry here daily, from angry guys who endlessly wish to be the only foreigners remaining in Thailand. But, if you don't have enough money in Thailand, there's no system to take advantage of. There's no welfare or unemployment of any kind - no free medical care, nothing. There's been no crisis of foreigners not having money in Thailand at all, actually. It's xenophobia, and this government not wanting examples of democracy around to inspire dissatisfaction. There's no vote in Thailand anymore. And when the local populace isn't happy about that, the new leadership blames (non-Chinese) foreigners.

Edited November 6, 2015 by No Apologist

[tribalfusion001]

I think they want 2 week Chinese tourists and westerners who have enough money for 6 months, then go home, anyone else, not wanted!

It's not really about 'enough money' though. There is that cry here daily, from angry guys who endlessly wish to be the only foreigners remaining in Thailand. But, if you don't have enough money in Thailand, there's no system to take advantage of. There's no welfare or unemployment of any kind - no free medical care, nothing. There's been no crisis of foreigners no having money in Thailand. It's xenophobia, and this government not wanting examples of democracy around to inspire dissatisfaction. There's no vote in Thailand anymore, that's not something to forget in any discussion.

How very true, we take democracy for granted in western countries.

[Asiantravel]

Screen Shot 2558-11-06 at 3.05.55 PM.png

Hold on a minute. You need to show a letter of employment ? Some people don't actually work, but do actually have over 200,000 baht (4,000 pounds) in their bank account. Then what ?

They might not enforce all requirements on their list.

It's actually always been a listed requirement to show 20,000 Baht when applying for a tourist visa, but they rarely ever ask people.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

Thanks for reminding me ! I've applied for the tourist visa loads of times, and I've never been asked for "evidence of travel from Thailand. and evidence of adequate finance".

Maybe, maybe, all they will do is make it so that you can only apply for the METV in your home country. No need to actually show letter of employment, or bank account with 200,000 baht (4,000 pounds) that's been there for six months ! And hopefully, you don't have to show the aeroplane ticket either. I mean, it would be a massive problem if you bought the plane ticket, and they then decided to not give you the METV !

I don't think you should be surprised though if from now on you see them enforcing both the requirement for showing evidence of sufficient funds and evidence of plane tickets even for single entry Visa applications.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Asiantravel

[jspill]

Thanks for reminding me ! I've applied for the tourist visa loads of times, and I've never been asked for "evidence of travel from Thailand. and evidence of adequate finance".

Maybe, maybe, all they will do is make it so that you can only apply for the METV in your home country. No need to actually show letter of employment, or bank account with 200,000 baht (4,000 pounds) that's been there for six months ! And hopefully, you don't have to show the aeroplane ticket either. I mean, it would be a massive problem if you bought the plane ticket, and they then decided to not give you the METV !

A poster here phoned up and was told that, yeah, no strict requirements for G7 countries - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/867234-metv-im-confused/page-9#entry10038379

It would make sense, why create mountains of paperwork for themselves in countries that produce the lowest amount of illegal workers, overstayers etc.

[jonaz]

I think they want 2 week Chinese tourists and westerners who have enough money for 6 months, then go home, anyone else, not wanted!

It's not really about 'enough money' though. There is that cry here daily, from angry guys who endlessly wish to be the only foreigners remaining in Thailand. But, if you don't have enough money in Thailand, there's no system to take advantage of. There's no welfare or unemployment of any kind - no free medical care, nothing. There's been no crisis of foreigners not having money in Thailand at all, actually. It's xenophobia, and this government not wanting examples of democracy around to inspire dissatisfaction. There's no vote in Thailand anymore. And when the local populace isn't happy about that, the new leadership blames (non-Chinese) foreigners.

Best post yet on this subject.

[uptheos]

I don't think you should be surprised though if from now on you see them enforcing the both the requirement for showing evidence of sufficient funds and evidence of plane tickets.

As long as you have a flight out of Thailand booked, it doesn't have to be back to the point of origin surely.

A cheap 600 baht to somewhere near with AA, 6 months in advance can be had (and discarded later).

[elviajero]

I highly doubt that back to back METV will be allowed, defeats the whole point of the visa, ie, to get rid of long term tourists living in Thailand.

I agree except I don't think it's to get rid of long term tourists. Although they may become victims.

Asking for proof of employment in the country of residence and insisting the applicant is a resident of the country they are applying in point to the fact that they want the applicant to return to their country of residence. Issuing back to back visas to someone supposed to be living and working in that country just wouldn't make sense.

[bino]

I arrive in Vientiane early on the 12th of November and was intending to apply for the old Double Entry tourist visa which I have used 4 times in the last 3 years. Will it still be availble then, 1 day before the changes come into place?

They are usually telling to bugger off after three, but these times being pre-METV,some posters have reported general leniency regarding DETR.

Try it!

Although technically the visa will only be issued the next working day which makes it the 13th,so could be refused

Ok thanks, sounds like a massive risk I will try change my flights to arrive early on the 11th I think. Would like to give my self the best chance possible.

If you're having to change flights and make new arrangements, I would go as soon as possible and not wait until the last days. I expect that there will be a huge number of people making a run to Vientiane this week in an attempt to get a final double entry visa.

[jspill]

Asking for proof of employment in the country of residence and insisting the applicant is a resident of the country they are applying in point to the fact that they want the applicant to return to their country of residence. Issuing back to back visas to someone supposed to be living and working in that country just wouldn't make sense.

It makes sense if they're fully aware that many people work online nowadays and are location independent.

And if they find it hard to verify foreign documents in e.g. Laos as they don't have foreign staff members from every country.

Asking for proof of residence and a regular income from online transfers on one's 4th tourist visa from Vientiane didn't make much sense either, but that's what they always asked for.

[JackThompson]

How do you apply by mail from a nearby country?

Recorded delivery to a family member back home, then they send it, and return address is theirs, then they send to you in Hong Kong or wherever. Lots of threads on it, with moderators confirming it breaks no laws as far as Thailand is concerned.

But does it break the law of the country you are sending it from?

I do not think I broke the law when I renewed my US Passport from within Thailand. It was done via an outreach, so I did not have a passport for nearly 3 weeks.

I did have color copies of everything, though I've never needed to show ID except at airports, hotels, and borders in my years outside the USA. I cannot imagine not being able to deal amicably with local authorities with color copies of PP & Visa + DL + expired passport.

And from an old post, this document explicitly stating how to apply for a Thai Visa when not in one's home-country:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=51512

... it would be a massive problem if you bought the plane ticket, and they then decided to not give you the METV !

Make sure the ticket is refundable.

Edited November 6, 2015 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

I think they want 2 week Chinese tourists and westerners who have enough money for 6 months, then go home, anyone else, not wanted!

It's not really about 'enough money' though. There is that cry here daily, from angry guys who endlessly wish to be the only foreigners remaining in Thailand. But, if you don't have enough money in Thailand, there's no system to take advantage of. There's no welfare or unemployment of any kind - no free medical care, nothing. There's been no crisis of foreigners not having money in Thailand at all, actually. It's xenophobia, and this government not wanting examples of democracy around to inspire dissatisfaction. There's no vote in Thailand anymore. And when the local populace isn't happy about that, the new leadership blames (non-Chinese) foreigners.

@tribal, If so, they would have written the law this way - 6 mo max on TVs / year.

@NoApologist

Agree entirely about the angry "proper visa" posters (I have a proper visa, a Tourist Visa - and had many more prior).

But, I don't think "democracy or not" has much to do with it. In my country, we have long had "democracy" - yet our government has worked tirelessly, for the past 35 years, hand-in-hand with business-leaders, to make American citizens poorer every year - and enrich the Chinese, who they simulaneously assure us, are "the enemy." This ensures the military-contractors get a piece of the action, as well as those moving middle-class jobs abroad to save a nickel per unit in labor-costs.

I have far more faith in the Thai govt to do well for its people than my own. This new visa looks, to me, like the result of good 'ol-fashioned bureaucracy - multiple groups had different demands, and the chop-suey compromise that resulted is known as the "METV."

[uptheos]

I do not think I broke the law when I renewed my US Passport from within Thailand. It was done via an outreach, so I did not have a passport for nearly 3 weeks.

I did have color copies of everything, though I've never needed to show ID except at airports, hotels, and borders in my years outside the USA. I cannot imagine not being able to deal amicably with local authorities with color copies of PP & Visa + DL + expired passport.

... it would be a massive problem if you bought the plane ticket, and they then decided to not give you the METV !

Make sure the ticket is refundable.

OK, so say you are from UK. You exit let's say Malaysia and present Thai immigration with a METV issued in the UK, while you were in Malaysia.......any questions?

[elviajero]

Asking for proof of employment in the country of residence and insisting the applicant is a resident of the country they are applying in point to the fact that they want the applicant to return to their country of residence. Issuing back to back visas to someone supposed to be living and working in that country just wouldn't make sense.

It makes sense if they're fully aware that many people work online nowadays and are location independent.

And if they find it hard to verify foreign documents in e.g. Laos as they don't have foreign staff members from every country.

Asking for proof of residence and a regular income from online transfers on one's 4th tourist visa from Vientiane didn't make much sense either, but that's what they always asked for.

Unless the immigration act is changed no embassy or consulate can issue a visa for the purpose of tourism to someone declaring the fact that they live and operate a business in Thailand regardless of where the business is located.

I don't think what was asked for by Vientiane has any relevance now.

[jspill]

Unless the immigration act is changed no embassy or consulate can issue a visa for the purpose of tourism to someone declaring the fact that they live and operate a business in Thailand regardless of where the business is located.

I don't think what was asked for by Vientiane has any relevance now.

Working remotely for offshore entities is not considered operating a business in Thailand, you can't cite sources for that, thread discussion on that never get resolved.

Consulates are now asking for the same kind of documentation Vientiane asked for, just moving it to the country of origin of the documentation so it can be properly verified.

[Derek JM]

Personally, I am on a SETV but I can get Non O (either single or multi) easily enough (Thai daughter by Ex GF). METV if required not too much of a problem.

As I have to return once a year to my country of Permanent residence (NOT my country of citizenship). I am under 50 living off a disability pension.

The Consulate in my nearest city back home has assured me I will qualify for METV if I show proof of my pension (since I cant work!). If necessary and required, I will enjoy lovely extended border runs for few weeks at a time every 3-5 months to lovely place or lovely places nearby and thank the MFA and General for the change of and tightening of rules that has inspired me to see new horizons and enjoy other nearby by countries and cultures. If required to do so I'll switch between SETV, non o, METV,perhaps even ED sandwich VE's inbetween as to have back to back tourist visas.

I do sincerely hope others can do similar.

For those that are interested it is possible to do a 3 month ED visa for 11,000 THB in Chiang Mai. Not a bad idea for some, 3 months SETV (60 days + 30 Day extension) do a VE + 30 day exemption 5 months total then go some where lovely and travel for a few weeks say 1 month..documents in hand for 3 month ED visa (no test a immigration as no extension required or given!) do another VE + Extension of VE total 5 months. At this point you are 11 months in Thailand (+ one month traveling around) go for another extended break out of the country for 1 month..by this time is one year since you last applied for a SETV and 7/8 since the last one expired..and you've only had 60 days in that past year on Visa Exempt (VE) entries..so rinse and repeat and stick two fingers up to the rule makers (that's one finger each hand!).

Or find another way of legitimately playing around with existing rules such as a stint volunteering somewhere nice.

[jspill]

OK, so say you are from UK. You exit let's say Malaysia and present Thai immigration with a METV issued in the UK, while you were in Malaysia.......any questions?

Hong Kong doesn't stamp you on entry anymore, could use that instead of Malaysia.

Then people's home countries often don't stamp them in or out either, e.g. the US and UK just look at your passport then let you through.

Flying BKK -> HK -> BKK looks identical to BKK -> UK -> HK -> BKK.

So even if an IO checked (doubtful, they usually flick through pages straight to the tourist visa) they wouldn't know you weren't in the UK.

Edited November 6, 2015 by jspill

[Happy Grumpy]

Would anyone have have expected the METV to look like this when they first announced they were considering a 6 month multi entry tourist visa? I fear the rest of us are next on the Thai hit list.

Yeah to think everyone was rejoicing to the coming of METV... where are they now?

signing up to study Thai with McWalen.

[JackThompson]

OK, so say you are from UK. You exit let's say Malaysia and present Thai immigration with a METV issued in the UK, while you were in Malaysia.......any questions?

Hong Kong doesn't stamp you on entry anymore, could use that instead of Malaysia.

Then people's home countries often don't stamp them in or out either, e.g. the US and UK just look at your passport then let you through.

Flying BKK -> HK -> BKK looks identical to BKK -> UK -> HK -> BKK.

So even if an IO checked (doubtful, they usually flick through pages straight to the tourist visa) they wouldn't know you weren't in the UK.

Add to this - even if you used Cambodia, Malaysia, etc - the IO's question does not make sense, as the listed restrictions say nothing about moving "your body to your home country" - only applying at it's Consulate(s). Given that wording, this would seem to be to allow verification of the accompanying documents - not to force anyone to endure pointless, long flights to particular locales.

The "farang must go home" attitude is in the minds of non-Thai posters - not Thai authorities; just look at the Rules they wrote. The subjective interpretations of the reasons for those rules, as imagined by some folks, have no basis in fact.

[elviajero]

Unless the immigration act is changed no embassy or consulate can issue a visa for the purpose of tourism to someone declaring the fact that they live and operate a business in Thailand regardless of where the business is located.

I don't think what was asked for by Vientiane has any relevance now.

Working remotely for offshore entities is not considered operating a business in Thailand, you can't cite sources for that, thread discussion on that never get resolved.

Consulates are now asking for the same kind of documentation Vientiane asked for, just moving it to the country of origin of the documentation so it can be properly verified.

Same challenge as always. When you apply for your METV declare your intensions of living in Thailand and working at your business.

Nothing needs resolving as the immigration act is clear about the activities allowed by the holder of any visa. And there is no definition of tourism that includes any type of "working".

I don't see how the requirements to be employed and resident in the country of application can make you think they are ok with that person living permanently in Thailand whilst working for a foreign entity.