Tesla to make debut at upcoming Thailand International Motor Expo

[mortenaa]

Wait for it "Thailand the hub of Free Electric charging stations"

i believe that Tesla is greatly underestimating the level of corruption.

I dont see how corruption is relevant

Just to clear up some questions

- Teslas charging stations (super chargers) are built and run by Tesla - only suitable for Tesla cars.

- Superchargers are not meant for daily recharging, but for longer trips or commutes. It's not recommended for the battery pack as well.

- Superchargers are normally located outside city center, typically along highways 200km - 300km away.

- Charging is normally done overnight, at home

- Daily commutes within in the city and surrounding areas are no problem on one charge - as the range on a Model S is typically from 270km - 450km (depending on driving style, weather conditions etc).

Edited November 16, 2015 by mortenaa

[tomwct]

Tesla will probably file for Bankruptcy in the next few years after the Next President of the USA takes over and the EPA's Budget is reduced, which reduces

Tesla's operating budget! Tesla has received 5 Billion in US Taxpayers freebies! You don't build cars in a Union State without taxpayer money! Remember Solyndra?

[mortenaa]

According to what I've heard, they've done a deal with a gas station chain. I can't see how corruption plays too much of a part in it?

In any case, you can be sure their charging stations will be able to recognize the actual car being charged, and will log the energy each customer uses along with the routes travelled so they are constantly getting feedback on battery/charge efficiency and usage, and for sure won't charge non-Tesla cars. They are a tech company after all

Exactly. All Models S cars are constantly communicating with Tesla. Sending driving statistics, locations, charging etc. It has a built in 3G network. The navigation is constantly improving based on drivers actual choice of routes. Same goes for the new Auto Pilot.

[JaseTheBass]

Hydrogen fuel call cars will make Tesla style cars obsolete within 10 years or so.

[IMHO]

Hydrogen fuel call cars will make Tesla style cars obsolete within 10 years or so.

Hydrogen has been "just about to shake up the auto industry" for a very, very long time now.

[jay1980]

Nice looking car, in 5 years time when the batteries are kaput they can just shoe horn a toyota 1uz into it then it will have the sounds to match the looks

[IMHO]

Nice looking car, in 5 years time when the batteries are kaput they can just shoe horn a toyota 1uz into it then it will have the sounds to match the looks

That made me laugh

[seedy]

One off topic post removed

[OMGImInPattaya]

Tesla will probably file for Bankruptcy in the next few years after the Next President of the USA takes over and the EPA's Budget is reduced, which reduces

Tesla's operating budget! Tesla has received 5 Billion in US Taxpayers freebies! You don't build cars in a Union State without taxpayer money! Remember Solyndra?

This post needs to be removed too...the op is about Teslas debut at the Bangkok auto show, not any Federal subsidies Tesla may have received in developing its cars or what any future President may do in regards to the EPS's budget.

[Jitar]

Besides, subsidies, tax incentives and other assistance from governments are not unique to Telsa. They are part and parcel of most capital intensive industry, particularly the car industry. Most multinational car companies exploit government assistance when they can.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Jitar

[sirineou]

Personally I think plug in hybrid engines are smarter than 100% electric vehicles. But maybe battery technology on the next generation cars will improve significantly to make up for the disadvantage.

With a Model S, you can drive from Bangkok to Chiang Mai with one 20 minutes pit stop midway, free of charge.. I don't see the huge disadvantage.

unless I am wrong, you would need a 12 hr pit stop to recharge

[WarpSpeed]

Long term ownership is now demonstrating that the batteries are at a distinct disadvantage in high heat environments losing as much as 25% of their operating period.

The battery has a built in cooling system (and heating for cold environments).

Has nothing to do with the noted premature power drain brought on by excessive atmospheric heat, that is only to prevent overheating or cold weather discharge and has no effect on the batteries operating life distance in those climates. My comment was based on already long term ownership of these cars in higher heat environments and is not up for dispute IT IS happening. Now I go on walk about for the sake of my sanity and stress reduction out of my life that posting here has gotten lately.

[davemos]

I have noted that Tesla are now offering a 8 year warranty on batteries and the drive train.Search Tesla warranty.

[IMHO]

Personally I think plug in hybrid engines are smarter than 100% electric vehicles. But maybe battery technology on the next generation cars will improve significantly to make up for the disadvantage.

With a Model S, you can drive from Bangkok to Chiang Mai with one 20 minutes pit stop midway, free of charge.. I don't see the huge disadvantage.

unless I am wrong, you would need a 12 hr pit stop to recharge

Their "supercharger" stations charge much faster than that: https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

10% to 80% in 30 minutes.

[sirineou]

Personally I think plug in hybrid engines are smarter than 100% electric vehicles. But maybe battery technology on the next generation cars will improve significantly to make up for the disadvantage.

With a Model S, you can drive from Bangkok to Chiang Mai with one 20 minutes pit stop midway, free of charge.. I don't see the huge disadvantage.

unless I am wrong, you would need a 12 hr pit stop to recharge

Their "supercharger" stations charge much faster than that: https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

10% to 80% in 30 minutes.

I was wrong,I guess it had to happen some time

though I doubt there are many supercharger stations between BKK and CM, that's not to say there will not be any soon

I think the problem with EV is the lack of infrastructure,

if the technology is to become mainstream there needs to be a standardization of the supporting infrastructure

are these superchargers good for all EVs or just Teslas

can you imagine having to look for a special gas station just to fill your Ford or your Toyota and then having to wait 30 min

Toyota is abandoning the battery EV and concentrating on the fuel cell EV

https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/?&srchid=sem|google|Mirai|BrandCategory_FCV_California|FCV_General|Mirai+-+Pre+Order+7.20.15|Mirai_MLP

[IMHO]

I was wrong,I guess it had to happen some time

though I doubt there are many supercharger stations between BKK and CM, that's not to say there will not be any soon

I think the problem with EV is the lack of infrastructure,

if the technology is to become mainstream there needs to be a standardization of the supporting infrastructure

are these superchargers good for all EVs or just Teslas

can you imagine having to look for a special gas station just to fill your Ford or your Toyota and then having to wait 30 min

Toyota is abandoning the battery EV and concentrating on the fuel cell EV

https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/?&srchid=sem|google|Mirai|BrandCategory_FCV_California|FCV_General|Mirai+-+Pre+Order+7.20.15|Mirai_MLP

Tesla say they are installing 120 supercharger stations around TH. They will only charge Tesla cars, and the software in the car works with GPS to direct you to ones available and en route, and does it's best to insure you don't run out of power before your destination. 90,000 owners so far seem to be pretty happy with the way it works.

As for hydrogen fuel cell cars, we've seen another one every couple of years now since the late 90's. When is it actually going to happen though? I'm not holding my breathe The Mirai isn't even Toyota's first attempt at one - just their latest. Hyundai have had their first one in 2001, and started mass production in 2013, but still no infra...

My prediction: EV's will win this battle, because the supply infra (electricity grid) is already everywhere. And even if I'm wrong and FCEV's do eventually gain market share, I'm sure some boffins will figure out how to retrofit it into the Tesla's

Edited November 23, 2015 by IMHO

[mortenaa]

unless I am wrong, you would need a 12 hr pit stop to recharge

Why do you even reply to something when you have no idea? 20 minutes gives you about 80 percent charge.

Edited November 23, 2015 by mortenaa

[mortenaa]

Has nothing to do with the noted premature power drain brought on by excessive atmospheric heat, that is only to prevent overheating or cold weather discharge and has no effect on the batteries operating life distance in those climates. My comment was based on already long term ownership of these cars in higher heat environments and is not up for dispute IT IS happening. Now I go on walk about for the sake of my sanity and stress reduction out of my life that posting here has gotten lately.

Where is your source for this? Normally batteries suffer more in cold weather than heat. Tesla's battery cooling will run even when not plugged in. It also comes with an 8 year battery warranty..

[mortenaa]

Tesla say they are installing 120 supercharger stations around TH. They will only charge Tesla cars, and the software in the car works with GPS to direct you to ones available and en route, and does it's best to insure you don't run out of power before your destination. 90,000 owners so far seem to be pretty happy with the way it works.

As for hydrogen fuel cell cars, we've seen another one every couple of years now since the late 90's. When is it actually going to happen though? I'm not holding my breathe The Mirai isn't even Toyota's first attempt at one - just their latest. Hyundai have had their first one in 2001, and started mass production in 2013, but still no infra...

My prediction: EV's will win this battle, because the supply infra (electricity grid) is already everywhere. And even if I'm wrong and FCEV's do eventually gain market share, I'm sure some boffins will figure out how to retrofit it into the Tesla's

I agree. Batteries have already won. Its soo energy consuming to make hydrogen, that it is much better just store the energy in batteries.

Norway is a great example, where we have about 60,000 EV already. About 10,000 Tesla's. There are a network of chargers built, and with a adapter, you can use the two different standards (CHAdeMO/Combo) as well as Tesla's own network, which increases its coverage all the time.

https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

The most famous Tesla owner in Norway, is "Tesla Bjørn". He is actually born in Thailand, but lived in Norway his whole life. He has driven his Models S for about 200,000 Km, and document the ownership and his experiences on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/videos

Edited November 23, 2015 by mortenaa

[JaseTheBass]

Its soo energy consuming to make hydrogen, that it is much better just store the energy in batteries.

At the moment, yes. In the future, probably not.

[mortenaa]

Its soo energy consuming to make hydrogen, that it is much better just store the energy in batteries.

At the moment, yes. In the future, probably not.

Until then....

[sirineou]

unless I am wrong, you would need a 12 hr pit stop to recharge

Why do you even reply to something when you have no idea? 20 minutes gives you about 80 percent charge.

a day late and a dollar short

If you would read my post more carefully you will see that I said

"unless I am wrong"

to which IMHO was kind enough, in a cordial manner to show me that indeed I was wrong and instead of asking me ," why I reply to something when I have no idea" was kind enough to provide me with a link to pertinent information.

to which I replied that indeed I was wrong, made a poor attempt at humor , and asked an additional question,

again IMHO was kind enough, continuing in his usual cordial manner, to answer my

question

To answer your question, I reply to things I have no idea, so that I would get an Idea

[mortenaa]

a day late and a dollar short

If you would read my post more carefully you will see that I said

"unless I am wrong"

to which IMHO was kind enough, in a cordial manner to show me that indeed I was wrong and instead of asking me ," why I reply to something when I have no idea" was kind enough to provide me with a link to pertinent information.

to which I replied that indeed I was wrong, made a poor attempt at humor , and asked an additional question,

again IMHO was kind enough, continuing in his usual cordial manner, to answer my

question

To answer your question, I reply to things I have no idea, so that I would get an Idea

Yea, I didn't read all the replies before I did my reply ..

Anyway, its so easy to look up information. Tesla Supercharges were mentioned several times in the thread earlier, with facts. If you would like to look up the information, Google is always there to help

[sirineou]

a day late and a dollar short

If you would read my post more carefully you will see that I said

"unless I am wrong"

to which IMHO was kind enough, in a cordial manner to show me that indeed I was wrong and instead of asking me ," why I reply to something when I have no idea" was kind enough to provide me with a link to pertinent information.

to which I replied that indeed I was wrong, made a poor attempt at humor , and asked an additional question,

again IMHO was kind enough, continuing in his usual cordial manner, to answer my

question

To answer your question, I reply to things I have no idea, so that I would get an Idea

Yea, I didn't read all the replies before I did my reply ..

Anyway, its so easy to look up information. Tesla Supercharges were mentioned several times in the thread earlier, with facts. If you would like to look up the information, Google is always there to help

I replied to your post # 19 , nowhere was Tesla Superchargers mentioned earlier than post # 19,at least nowhere that I see,

in it you state "With a Model S, you can drive from Bangkok to Chiang Mai with one 20 minutes pit stop midway, free of charge.. I don't see the huge disadvantage." Though I am willing to concede that with "Superchargers" you could recharge to 80% in 30 min, you must also be willing to concede that non of this exists yet and as such, my statement concerning a 12 hr charging pitstop is technically correct

Remember you said " you can drive"not you will be able to drive at some

Non the less, IMO the Tesla S is a very expensive second car, I would certainly not relay on it as my primary transportation, especially in Thailand where services are unreliable. , what if I arrived at a Supercharger station only to find it not working? And even with a 30 min charging time, unless you are out on a leisurely drive, who can wait 30 min to refuel? Yery difficult for the technology to fo mainstream even with a 30 min recharging time.

I Believe that's part of Toyota's calculus in deciding to go the Fuel Cell route with a 5 min refuelling time

[IMHO]

a day late and a dollar short

If you would read my post more carefully you will see that I said

"unless I am wrong"

to which IMHO was kind enough, in a cordial manner to show me that indeed I was wrong and instead of asking me ," why I reply to something when I have no idea" was kind enough to provide me with a link to pertinent information.

to which I replied that indeed I was wrong, made a poor attempt at humor , and asked an additional question,

again IMHO was kind enough, continuing in his usual cordial manner, to answer my

question

To answer your question, I reply to things I have no idea, so that I would get an Idea

Yea, I didn't read all the replies before I did my reply ..

Anyway, its so easy to look up information. Tesla Supercharges were mentioned several times in the thread earlier, with facts. If you would like to look up the information, Google is always there to help

I replied to your post # 19 , nowhere was Tesla Superchargers mentioned earlier than post # 19,at least nowhere that I see,

in it you state "With a Model S, you can drive from Bangkok to Chiang Mai with one 20 minutes pit stop midway, free of charge.. I don't see the huge disadvantage." Though I am willing to concede that with "Superchargers" you could recharge to 80% in 30 min, you must also be willing to concede that non of this exists yet and as such, my statement concerning a 12 hr charging pitstop is technically correct

Remember you said " you can drive"not you will be able to drive at some

Non the less, IMO the Tesla S is a very expensive second car, I would certainly not relay on it as my primary transportation, especially in Thailand where services are unreliable. , what if I arrived at a Supercharger station only to find it not working? And even with a 30 min charging time, unless you are out on a leisurely drive, who can wait 30 min to refuel? Yery difficult for the technology to fo mainstream even with a 30 min recharging time.

I Believe that's part of Toyota's calculus in deciding to go the Fuel Cell route with a 5 min refuelling time

I did mention and link to Superchargers earlier in the thread, but it was moderated out. Must have been a bad link.

Anyways, the big thing to bear in mind is that these cars actually have reasonable range for most daily driving you do - the supercharger stations are only needed when doing big road trips.

In any case, I see these cars as the type of thing a C-Level exec might prefer to use for his/her daily commute over a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo - it has the same "in traffic" performance of these, but with more comfort, less noise, and better driveability in stop-start traffic. i.e. more a competitor to a Bentley Continental, S-Class, or 7-Series type car - but with a skew on tech over opulence. From that POV, they're pretty sharply priced in TH.

[Ace of Pop]

Hydrogen production has now received boost.The plants used can now be replaced without any downtime.Every battery thing I've owned has been flat when needed.From Laptop to Forklift.

[mortenaa]

Hydrogen production has now received boost.The plants used can now be replaced without any downtime.Every battery thing I've owned has been flat when needed.From Laptop to Forklift.

A laptop is drained from the "sleep mode", which actually use quite a lot of power to hold memory etc. A forklift uses old lead-battery tech. Cannot be compared to Li-ion. A Tesla can sit in a car park for weeks without dropping more than a couple percent.

[sirineou]

Yea, I didn't read all the replies before I did my reply ..

Anyway, its so easy to look up information. Tesla Supercharges were mentioned several times in the thread earlier, with facts. If you would like to look up the information, Google is always there to help

I replied to your post # 19 , nowhere was Tesla Superchargers mentioned earlier than post # 19,at least nowhere that I see,

in it you state "With a Model S, you can drive from Bangkok to Chiang Mai with one 20 minutes pit stop midway, free of charge.. I don't see the huge disadvantage." Though I am willing to concede that with "Superchargers" you could recharge to 80% in 30 min, you must also be willing to concede that non of this exists yet and as such, my statement concerning a 12 hr charging pitstop is technically correct

Remember you said " you can drive"not you will be able to drive at some

Non the less, IMO the Tesla S is a very expensive second car, I would certainly not relay on it as my primary transportation, especially in Thailand where services are unreliable. , what if I arrived at a Supercharger station only to find it not working? And even with a 30 min charging time, unless you are out on a leisurely drive, who can wait 30 min to refuel? Yery difficult for the technology to fo mainstream even with a 30 min recharging time.

I Believe that's part of Toyota's calculus in deciding to go the Fuel Cell route with a 5 min refuelling time

I did mention and link to Superchargers earlier in the thread, but it was moderated out. Must have been a bad link.

Anyways, the big thing to bear in mind is that these cars actually have reasonable range for most daily driving you do - the supercharger stations are only needed when doing big road trips.

In any case, I see these cars as the type of thing a C-Level exec might prefer to use for his/her daily commute over a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo - it has the same "in traffic" performance of these, but with more comfort, less noise, and better driveability in stop-start traffic. i.e. more a competitor to a Bentley Continental, S-Class, or 7-Series type car - but with a skew on tech over opulence. From that POV, they're pretty sharply priced in TH.

Sorry about the length of this reply, dont know how to keep it shorter and touch on all the salient points.

No disagreement there, the range has increased to the point where it makes the vehicle viable for a niche market, My ex-wife owns a Nissan Leaf and uses it for exactly the application you describe, she commutes to her job which is exactly the same place every day, where the car stays parked recharging until the end of the work day, when she drives home , if after work she decided to go some place else, it would had to be with in her driving range, and recharging time. for that she drives practically free,because she does not pay for the electricity where she parks, but i am sure if enough people started charging their vehicles to the point that it impacted their electric bill, they would start charging.

Or she thinks she drives free. she could had bought a comparable gas engine car for about $ 6,000 less, I think you can buy a lot of gas for $6,000 and not have to compromise range.

The problem with battery EV with reasonable range is the batteries,

they are huge, and expensive, Dont need to tell you the size of the Tesla S batteries to achieve the limited range, and it is estimated that the comprise 2/3rds of the price of the car in the case of the Nissan Leaf, not sure about the TeslaS .

a Third problem with the Batteries of an EV are the materials they are made from.

First the political problem of obtaining and controlling the rare minerals required that are available in only a few places in the world

Second the toxicity of some of the material, and the environmental impact in mining it,

So if it is not economical and it is not environmentally friendly so what is it?

Arguably a pseudo-enviromental feel good status symbol ?

Some of the above reasons are why I would not buy stock in Tesla.

Musk is investing 5 billion dollars in a mega battery factory that by the time it is completed it would probably be obsolete as battery technology changes and a car that only has niche market , and it will be dependant on the geopolitical whims of the countries where the rare elements required are available.

I believe to many variables any of which could ruin Tesla.

I think Toyota made some of the same calculations. It is notable that for the first time they are not retaining ownership of the vehicles by simply leasing them. They are selling them be it at a loss. But that's the price to develop a market.

It is notable that they are selling them , it indicates a confidence in the technology.

And they are selling only a limited number in a limited location to keep pace with the infrastructure, As the infrastructure increases so would the availability of the vehicle.

Hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the Universe, and the technology of converting it to a usable form if improving, it is clean non polluting, and only takes 5 min to refuel , so with adequate infrastructure no range problems,.

But at this point Hydrogen is expensive

that;s why with a purchase of a Toyota fuel cell car you get 5 years of paid hydrogen. As the infrastructure for producing and dispensing Hydrogen expends, the scale of economies will take care of the cost problem.

anyway the operative word in everything I said is " arguably"

[sirineou]

^^^^^^Correction

of one of the many mistakes I am sure I made , it is 3 years of paid Hydrogen rather than the 5 I said.

[Jitar]

Right now Electric vehicles have issues with the environmental impact of producing their batteries and the generation of electrical power they use in places were the power is generated from fossil fuels. Tesla in Norway with Hydro power is a good match, but not repeatable in many countries.

The environmental and economic benefits of Hydrogen are also questionable because there are no economical methods to produce and distribute Hydrogen without significant environmental impact. Hydrogen is common in various compounds but a huge amount of energy or Carbon emissions are required to separate it.

Who knows what will happen in the future but non fossil fuel based Hydrogen production has big challenges to overcome.