Another web site for the OP, detailinging housing costs by state: Out of Reach 2015

http://nlihc.org/oor

Reasons I moved to ABQ:

1) Politically both the city AND the state are much easier for me to deal with. LGBT anti-discrimination legislation began in the 1980s, it was one of the first states to pass same-sex marriage, etc.

2) Much easier process for legal identity changes, such as name change.

3) Legal residency requirements are similar to the non-income taxing states (like Texas, or North Dakota, etc), in that having a FedEx or UPS box at an actual store is legally acceptable.

4) I spent my childhood in New Mexico which makes it easy to contend I have a long history with the state.

5) My mother, her younger sisters, and my grandmother all live in ABQ.

6) Cost of living is low, especially as you get further out from the university area. Northeast is pretty cheap.

7) Bus system is useful, and there are also trains.

8) ...New Mexican food > Tex-Mex. Japan sucks at Mexican food.

Thanks. Interesting. Especially about the simpler residency.

No problem, JT. Happy to kick in, once I saw you mentioned ABQ might be in the running. It is certainly colder than where I grew up (along the border), but it's a lot warmer than Tokyo! That's for darn sure.

New Mexico has a very large culture of poor people. There is a small group of people with deep roots in NM, that carry a lot of clout, in politics and employment. I would take Tucson over ABQ, any day of the week.

In fairness, my family has been in New Mexico/Texas since it was all part of the Republic. So I'm probably in that group by relation.

Janet Napolitano, too. Some of the lowest incomes in America. I would take El Paso over Las Cruces, too,

I was looking at the annual Washington Post in and out list (which BTW for long term expats will make you really feel like an ALIEN!) and there was one item that stuck out:

Out: Boomtowns

In: Boomer Towns

Well, I had never heard that term before but guessed it meant what it does. Places that are getting popular with retiring baby boomers. It's quite a thing! Predictably so, of course.

Well, what do you know. Tucson AZ is on the list and also some others I haven't even heard of or thought about. Of course, not focused specifically on low budget, but still seems worth a good look.

http://bestboomertowns.com/

Corner lots are more desirable for commercial property, and if they are larger, as they usually are, they demand a premium for residential property, also, It can be the difference in a pool or no pool.

Well, we're only a little on topic but if you're going to buy a house don't buy a corner lot. You have to set back from the sidewalk front and side probably 20' which is typical. On a side yard it's 4', 8' between houses. On a corner lot you have the feeling that people driving down the streets can better see into your house and even your back yard. The house feels exposed to the public.

I've done both a lot of lending on and selling of residential lots and I promise you that the corner lots are always discounted.

Cheers.

Not in higher priced markets, where the appraisal will be based on square footage, and the corner lot will have more. End unit townhomes almost always demand a premium...and if nothing else, it's the lot-size.

Here are two...one inside unit...lot size 1757 sf...assessor says 120,000 USD for land....

http://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/Datalets/Datalet.aspx?sIndex=0&idx=1

three doors down, end unit: 2585 sf lot....assessor says 125,000

http://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/datalets/datalet.aspx?mode=profileall&sIndex=1&idx=1&LMparent=138

But the sf price for the land is less, but you get a significantly larger lot.

If you look at the description, you will even see it classified as: "Townhouse End"

This link may be interesting for some;

http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/retirement/T006-S001-great-places-to-retire-in-every-state/index.html

This link may be interesting for some; http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/retirement/T006-S001-great-places-to-retire-in-every-state/index.html

My neighbors in Phoenix, had a home in Wyoming for the Summers. That's a good pair of winter/summer low Tax States.

migration by State...today's Washington comPost: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/28/the-states-that-are-seeing-a-boom-in-population-and-the-states-that-arent/?hpid=hp_no-name_graphic-story-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Corner lots are more desirable for commercial property, and if they are larger, as they usually are, they demand a premium for residential property, also, It can be the difference in a pool or no pool.

Well, we're only a little on topic but if you're going to buy a house don't buy a corner lot. You have to set back from the sidewalk front and side probably 20' which is typical. On a side yard it's 4', 8' between houses. On a corner lot you have the feeling that people driving down the streets can better see into your house and even your back yard. The house feels exposed to the public.

I've done both a lot of lending on and selling of residential lots and I promise you that the corner lots are always discounted.

Cheers.

Absolutely disagree. Corner lots nearly always command a premium price. Lots are generally larger and you have a neighbor on only one side. You apparently feel that "the house feels exposed to the public"....not so everyone and not so "the market".

Back on topic: Tucson is a nice place except for June/July/August.

Well, we're only a little on topic but if you're going to buy a house don't buy a corner lot. You have to set back from the sidewalk front and side probably 20' which is typical. On a side yard it's 4', 8' between houses. On a corner lot you have the feeling that people driving down the streets can better see into your house and even your back yard. The house feels exposed to the public.

I've done both a lot of lending on and selling of residential lots and I promise you that the corner lots are always discounted.

Cheers.

Absolutely disagree. Corner lots nearly always command a premium price. Lots are generally larger and you have a neighbor on only one side. You apparently feel that "the house feels exposed to the public"....not so everyone and not so "the market".

Back on topic: Tucson is a nice place except for June/July/August.

I think we're at least a bit on topic as we're talking about relocating which has included getting housing and housing costs.

I must admit that my experience is with selling vacant new lots to builders as a developer, and earlier, financing the lots as a banker. Builders don't want corner lots because they cost a lot more to build on. The builder is responsible for installing the sidewalks and there can be more than twice as many square feet of that which is expensive. The houses had to be set back 20' from the sidewalk, front and side leaving much more outside of the fence landscaping to develop. Now, they also thought the houses were harder to sell as they had traffic on two streets, less privacy from the street and so on.

I suppose that might vary in different areas with different cultures?

It's at least worth researching as it's part of the "location" for the home.

Cheers.

Not in higher priced markets, where the appraisal will be based on square footage, and the corner lot will have more. End unit townhomes almost always demand a premium...and if nothing else, it's the lot-size.

Here are two...one inside unit...lot size 1757 sf...assessor says 120,000 USD for land....

http://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/Datalets/Datalet.aspx?sIndex=0&idx=1

three doors down, end unit: 2585 sf lot....assessor says 125,000

http://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/datalets/datalet.aspx?mode=profileall&sIndex=1&idx=1&LMparent=138

But the sf price for the land is less, but you get a significantly larger lot.

If you look at the description, you will even see it classified as: "Townhouse End"

End units in apartments and condos are more desirable because you have neighbors on just one side with common walls. Landscaping is usually provided by the owner or association. A single family home in a neighborhood would need a different study.

Cheers

You own the land in a Townhouse. Your example was for unimproved land. Look at any area with lots in the 4-7000 sf range...there will be a premium on the assessment, appraisal, builder price, and re-sale. The builders will often greatly limit your choice of styles on the corner lots, too.

We're ruining JingThing's thread. I've sold and financed 100's of lots in new subdivisions, and developed the same in my day. I'll let it go at that.

Cheers.

JT, I know you've eliminated Portland, but here is one endorsement of the place that can't be ignored:

Glenn Beck Names Portland the Worst City in America

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-33600-glenn_beck_names_portland_the_worst_city_in_america.html

I was looking at the annual Washington Post in and out list (which BTW for long term expats will make you really feel like an ALIEN!) and there was one item that stuck out:

Out: Boomtowns

In: Boomer Towns

Well, I had never heard that term before but guessed it meant what it does. Places that are getting popular with retiring baby boomers. It's quite a thing! Predictably so, of course.

Well, what do you know. Tucson AZ is on the list and also some others I haven't even heard of or thought about. Of course, not focused specifically on low budget, but still seems worth a good look.

http://bestboomertowns.com/

I would most certainly recommend Tucson. You might also consider some of the smaller towns southeast of Tucson, such as Sierra Vista, Bisbee or Benson. Real estate is affordable, there are abundant medical services, and the climate is somewhat more agreeable than Tucson. If you like being outdoors, the entire region is tremendous. And each of these communities is within one to two hours of Tucson.

I was looking at the annual Washington Post in and out list (which BTW for long term expats will make you really feel like an ALIEN!) and there was one item that stuck out:

Out: Boomtowns

In: Boomer Towns

Well, I had never heard that term before but guessed it meant what it does. Places that are getting popular with retiring baby boomers. It's quite a thing! Predictably so, of course.

Well, what do you know. Tucson AZ is on the list and also some others I haven't even heard of or thought about. Of course, not focused specifically on low budget, but still seems worth a good look.

http://bestboomertowns.com/

I would most certainly recommend Tucson. You might also consider some of the smaller towns southeast of Tucson, such as Sierra Vista, Bisbee or Benson. Real estate is affordable, there are abundant medical services, and the climate is somewhat more agreeable than Tucson. If you like being outdoors, the entire region is tremendous. And each of these communities is within one to two hours of Tucson.

I spent four years in Rio Rico, without air-con at 4300 feet. I've heard Bisbee, yes...Benson, no.

I was looking at the annual Washington Post in and out list (which BTW for long term expats will make you really feel like an ALIEN!) and there was one item that stuck out:

Out: Boomtowns

In: Boomer Towns

Well, I had never heard that term before but guessed it meant what it does. Places that are getting popular with retiring baby boomers. It's quite a thing! Predictably so, of course.

Well, what do you know. Tucson AZ is on the list and also some others I haven't even heard of or thought about. Of course, not focused specifically on low budget, but still seems worth a good look.

http://bestboomertowns.com/

I would most certainly recommend Tucson. You might also consider some of the smaller towns southeast of Tucson, such as Sierra Vista, Bisbee or Benson. Real estate is affordable, there are abundant medical services, and the climate is somewhat more agreeable than Tucson. If you like being outdoors, the entire region is tremendous. And each of these communities is within one to two hours of Tucson.

I spent four years in Rio Rico, without air-con at 4300 feet. I've heard Bisbee, yes...Benson, no.

Bisbee sits on the Mexican border and is 5600' elevation. Benson is a far less interesting town about 40 miles north of Bisbee.

Yeah, I was told their was even a neat downtown in Bisbee, and I think that is part of a railway trip that links it to Tombstone. I'm guessing you would go to Sierra Vista for medical specialists, and a helicopter to UMC-Tucson for trauma. Patagonia is kind of unique, excellent schools even, but it is very expensive considering parts of it are practically in Rio Rico or Nogales. Some even dubbed far eastern Rio Rico as Rio-gonia, and we could even see the lake from our neighborhood, while the area near the high school was called "Rio Pobre,"

JT, you got me all excited about Cleveland around page 7 or 8 and I've spent a few days researching the place. Wow, it's not the city I left at age 18, thankful to have a scholarship to an out-of-state university. Well, actually I grew up in one of the far eastern suburbs, but often during school holidays I'd ride the rapid transit light rail train downtown with my dad and hang out in in his office until the large downtown public library opened. Well, at least he thought I was hanging spending my day the public library, but often I'd walk the downtown streets (very scary at that time) or just look at stuff in the old-line downtown department stores that were making their dying gasps trying to hold on in the late 1960s.

Now, it looks like many of the fine old buildings, that were either abandoned or flophouses when I was a teenager have been gutted and turned into trendy, affordable apartments. There are restaurant and entertainment districts. An excellent free trolley system, running every 10 minutes links the area with Playhouse Square, the largest second largest live theater district in the U.S. (closed theaters all beautifully restored since I left and now featuring live entertainment). There is cheap light rail connecting the downtown to the excellent museum and university district where the world caliber Cleveland Clinic is located. The major sports arenas are similarly connected. The Walkscore.com rating of the dozens of newly converted apartment buildings I looked at is in excess of 85. You definitely wouldn't need a car to live there, you'd have access to great health care, expanded Medicaid, a vibrant cultural scene.

A couple of drawbacks. I know you said you wanted to purchase, not rent. It seems the renovated/repurposed buildings in downtown Cleveland are being turned into rentals, not condos. There must be some tax break for the developers because it seems that a handful of companies are doing all the developing. But, that probably explains, too, why the rental rates are fairly low. There are a few listings for condos on Zillow for downtown Cleveland, but not many.

Also, for a few months of the year, the weather is cold and grey in Cleveland. That time is become shorter, what with global warming, but there still are a few months when you probably should plan to go elsewhere or enjoyindoor activities. Much like living in Chiang Mai with the bad weather mid-Feb thru mid-May. Same-same, but different.

Well its true there are some good walkable neighborhoods most people still feel they need a car. So it's not Manhattan. Also still high crime, high real estate taxes. and those darned Midwestern winters.

There isn't one lower budget choice that doesn't have major downsides.

If/when Hubby and I return to the U.S., we'd really like to return and live in a walkable area with good public transportation. Cleveland looks better than Chiang Mai in that respect.

But, you're right JT. Every place like that in the U.S. seems to have at least one major downside. Usually it's not a problem with access to culture or medical care. Usually it's affordability, weather or crime. At least Cleveland is affordable.

I wonder what the crime situation is like, at least in the areas of urban renewal? It's not like we're going to be coming out of bars at 2 am or wearing gold chains on the streets.

After 500 posts JT must have gotten the drift: Live in the US costs 3 to 4 times more than in Thailand.

To recommend states within the "Bible Belt", considering JT's sexual orientation. is worse than a crime,

My prediction: JT will stay in Thailand, because there are no viable alternatives left for him at this time.(Medical or otherwise).

Cheers.

...

I wonder what the crime situation is like, at least in the areas of urban renewal? It's not like we're going to be coming out of bars at 2 am or wearing gold chains on the streets.

If you are interested in crime statistics those can be found, by city, at City-Data.com, which can also give you other statistics ,such as demographics, housing, businesses, weather, employment, and more

After 500 posts JT must have gotten the drift: Live in the US costs 3 to 4 times more than in Thailand.

To recommend states within the "Bible Belt", considering JT's sexual orientation. is worse than a crime,

My prediction: JT will stay in Thailand, because there are no viable alternatives left for him at this time.(Medical or otherwise).

Cheers.

This just isn't true. I think it's cheaper to live in the US once a person gets his housing worked out. As for your medical comment, a person with low income can get expanded Medicaid in states that have it. As we age we're very likely to need more medical care and somewhere around age 70 a person can no longer get insurance in LOS. A serious medical condition could break most uninsured people in Thailand. Without money you might not even get the care. Medical care might be the single biggest reason to retire in the US.

Consumer goods of almost all kinds are significantly cheaper in the US. That helps offset some of the housing costs. After all of these posts I would seriously look at Arkansas which has affordable housing, temperate weather and expanded Medicaid. I'd find a double wide on small acreage within 20 miles of a town big enough to have a big hospital and doctors, and really good shopping selections. There's nothing wrong with having a scooter in the US if that's the budget, but good used cars are far cheaper in the US than in LOS.

If I was still strapped I'd rent a room or two to people on fixed lower incomes. There's a ton of demand for those now. $500+ per month is about the number for that so a guy could pull in $1,000 per month just having roommates. I wouldn't like it but we do what we have to do.

A low income person might well also get "food stamps" to more than pay for his food. There are no safety nets in LOS and I'd feel a lot more secure in the US.

Cheers.

I spent 15+ years in the mid west. The weather is tough. I remember summers where we'd only have a few weeks of really good weather. The rest was cold and rainy. Then October would be there and you're in for 7+ months of cold weather. No thanks.

I've got very fond memories of living there. But not sure I'd like the cold weather.