Quartermaster hails new age of local war machines

[webfact]

Quartermaster hails new age of local war machines
Wasamon Audjarint
The Nation


The Defence Technology Institute director, General Sompong Mukdasakul, shows off the DTI's Black Widow Spider 8x8 armoured vehicle at the Defence & Security Exhibition 2015.

BANGKOK: -- The mean, green Black Widow Spider armoured personnel carrier had a commanding presence at the recent Defence & Security exhibition at the Impact Arena exhibition hall, attracting sideways glances from visitors awed by its 30-millimetre automatic canon, day and night mission electro-optical camera, and its eight giant rubber-based wheels.

The military behemoth took pride of place at the event not only because its fine lines lent it a sophisticated air, but also because it is the first vehicle of its kind ever to be built by the Army.

"It started a couple of years ago when we received an order from the Defence Ministry to develop an armoured car," said General Sompong Mukdasakul, director of the Defence Technology Institute (DTI), who was responsible for the vehicle's development. "By doing it on our own, we will be able to produce as many as we need. We don't have to wait in a queue like we do when ordering from overseas."

As an experienced combat veteran who has participated in a number of battles, including the Thai-Laotian Border War, the general underlined the need for the country to have well-prepared troops. This is also to combat possible future threats like global terrorism, not to mention the possibility of having to cooperate with Asean countries in national defence technology development.

"The troops of a country are just like the security guards of a house," he said. "If we don't have them, we'll be instantly invaded by thieves."

Sompong said the DTI, which is the ministry's research and development centre, started to forge cooperation with other parties in order to accomplish this vehicle. A Public Private Partnership (PPP) was explored to support the project, he said.

Under this cooperation platform, the organisation received cooperation from various agencies, both public and private, including safety car producer Preechataworn Industry and the National Metal and Materials Technology Centre. Research labs from educational institutions such as Chulalongkorn University and King's Mongkut Institute of Technology Ladkrabang also contributed to the vehicle's research and development.

Some foreign agencies also took part in the project, the general said, but he insisted their identities had to be kept confidential.

Still, the DTI claims to have been responsible for 60 per cent of the technologies used to develop the vehicle. Sompong referred to the development as a "breakthrough" for the country's automobile industry.

The DTI and its partners built the vehicle in a short period of time compared with the time it usually takes other countries, Sompong said. It usually takes more than a decade for other countries to achieve the same scale of work as they have to adhere to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Standardization Agreement.

When comparing costs and benefits, the general said imported and domestically-made armoured cars are not highly different in price, with both costing around Bt40 million baht. However, domestically-made armoured cars are more worthwhile considering long-term maintenance and further development.

What is vital, Sompong said, is cooperation with outsiders. Cooperation with foreign agencies is beneficial not only in saving time on research, he said, but also in bringing know-how to Thai employees, resulting in long-term development of technical knowledge.

"The enhanced knowledge will provide a good stimulus to the country's overall economy," the general said. "And now the government is increasing the research budget by as much as one per cent of the country's GDP. I think that's a good sign." Having already launched its new vehicle, the DTI plans to complete full tests and enhancements on the vehicle by next year. However, even Sompong could not predict the fate of the Black Widow Spider 8x8. "We still have to see if the Defence Ministry will approve more orders on the car," he said.

The development of the Black Widow Spider is seen by some military observers as another step towards the country's self-reliance of military equipment and weapons. Since its establishment in 2007, the DTI has spent its time trying to develop a range of lightweight weapons including the DTI-2 Rocket 122-mm unmanned aerial vehicle and virtual shooting range simulators.

At present, the Army spends an annual budget of around Bt1 billion in weapons development, said the general.

"Carrying out research requires a lot of time and human resources," he said. "And our country has for a long time been static in developing new research. Mostly, we bought technologies [from other countries] but hardly developed our own. We have the illusion that we are capable while other [countries] keep passing us."

Looking proudly at the military monster he helped to create, Sompong hinted that the organisation would reveal its upcoming project next year. "It will be a floatable one," he said.

"We are working with the Royal Thai Marine Corps to develop a massive, floatable vehicle. We already have a draft model. The final product should be finished next year," Sompong said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Quartermaster-hails-new-age-of-local-war-machines-30273014.html

-- The Nation 2015-11-16

[Somtamnication]

Perfect weapon for control management.

[eliotness]

Yet more "big boys " Says everything that does.

[davehowden]

"Some foreign agencies also took part in the project, the general said, but he insisted their identities had to be kept confidential."

Yeah, right, good job somebody knew what they were doing?

"Ricardo is proud to have been selected by DTI to partner with it on this key vehicle programme,” commented Andy North, Ricardo chief engineer, defence. “This work builds upon our extremely strong reputation for the design, development and production of class-leading, agile and highly crew-protected defence vehicles, including the Foxhound, WMIK and Vixen platforms used by British forces."

"The Black Widow Spider has a strong resemblance to ST Kinetics' Terrex."

"it was revealed while Black Widow Spider's armour comes from Israel Military Industries (IMI)."

Edited November 15, 2015 by davehowden

[NongKhaiKid]

The new APC attracted ' sideways ' glances from visitors ?

Were they afraid to look directly at the vehicle because it's some sort of state secret ?

[jaywalker]

I used to be an exhibitor at that show. I miss them like a hole in the head.

[Somtamnication]

The new APC attracted ' sideways ' glances from visitors ?

Were they afraid to look directly at the vehicle because it's some sort of state secret ?

Because if you looked at it directly, one of two things would have happened: Either turn you into stone or you would have commented on how ugly it was and arrested for slander and defamation.

[ezzra]

It's probably the only one they have to show, and if you go to put an order they will most likely say: Mai Mi..Mot leo..

either that or it is just a decoy made out cardboards and old Nissan engine... with irrigation pipe for a canon...

[oneday]

Big boys and their toys...total waste of money that could be helping the poor people of Thailand.

The military is going crazy...submarines, missile defense systems and now this. What a surprise with a military government...NOT!

[sharecropper]

Has anyone seen independent reviews or articles about this vehicle from outside Thailand?

[worgeordie]

Whats next on the list, D.I.Y. submarines,The Black Barracuda.

regards Worgeordie

[ratcatcher]

As an experienced combat veteran who has participated in a number of battles, including the Thai-Laotian Border War, the general underlined the need for the country to have well-prepared troops. This is also to combat possible future threats like global terrorism, not to mention the possibility of having to cooperate with Asean countries in national defence technology development.

Anyone else out there find this somewhat amusing. A hardened battle veteran?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai%E2%80%93Laotian_Border_War

So, not quite an Iraq, Afghanistan experience then general?

Edited November 16, 2015 by ratcatcher

[waldroj]

Quartermaster?

[Pib]

You'll be able to get spare parts for the Thai made Black Widow at Amorn Electronic and Cockpit Auto stores. Credit cards gladly accepted.

[jaywalker]

It's probably the only one they have to show, and if you go to put an order they will most likely say: Mai Mi..Mot leo..

either that or it is just a decoy made out cardboards and old Nissan engine... with irrigation pipe for a canon...

I know the company that built it, and your comments aren't too far off the quality of their products.

BTW, it probably has a Toyota engine, not a Nissan. The RTA is partial to Toyota stuff.

To give just one example, I represented a US company & Thailand owns a couple thousand of that company's model of American vehicle, and I'll just use suspension parts here as one example, to be brief.

The US suspension parts are designed to (and do) last 30,000 miles at least when used off-road and thoroughly abused, which is what the US does - abuse those trucks. They are tie rods ends & ball joints etc... Parts full of grease & they have rubber boots to contain the grease.

This local company got some local replica parts that were FAR cheaper than the US parts, so of course the RTA bought from them. Much cheaper right? Cheaper quality, more expensive in the long run.

The rubber boots were made from cheap rubber (it needs to be expensive chemical-resistant rubber...remember the grease?)

Anyhow, the local stuff fell apart within about 4-6 months (regardless of the number of miles of usage), so just going by that one example, well, use your imagination.

Edited November 16, 2015 by jaywalker

[tuanku]

Nice - now the Army can drive through the streets of Bangkok in style for their next coup.

[eliotness]

As an experienced combat veteran who has participated in a number of battles, including the Thai-Laotian Border War, the general underlined the need for the country to have well-prepared troops. This is also to combat possible future threats like global terrorism, not to mention the possibility of having to cooperate with Asean countries in national defence technology development.

Anyone else out there find this somewhat amusing. A hardened battle veteran?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai%E2%80%93Laotian_Border_War

So, not quite an Iraq, Afghanistan experience then general?

That goes for the vehicle too. Buyers want battle proven vehicles and weapon systems, which Thailand hasn't got. That just looks like a cardboard replica and too high a profile.

[smedly]

This Tonka Toy will be useful to who ?

why is the military building vehicles ?

it's got big wheels and a big gun - whoopee doo

Next - a spoiler and big noisy twin exhausts

what a waste of tax payers money

Edited November 16, 2015 by smedly

[NongKhaiKid]

As an experienced combat veteran who has participated in a number of battles, including the Thai-Laotian Border War, the general underlined the need for the country to have well-prepared troops. This is also to combat possible future threats like global terrorism, not to mention the possibility of having to cooperate with Asean countries in national defence technology development.

Anyone else out there find this somewhat amusing. A hardened battle veteran?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai%E2%80%93Laotian_Border_War

So, not quite an Iraq, Afghanistan experience then general?

Didn't Chavalit recently claim to be a veteran of 5 campaign's ? Maybe there together in the same trench or safely behind a desk somewhere exercising their imaginations !

Oh abject apologies for being facetious as they will have ' campaign ' medals to prove it.

[Hawk]

Stimulate the economy? Never. Only stimulate a load of stupid egos.

[Johnsy]

These things are only as good as the people manning them....good luck with that lol....

[AlQaholic]

Next the Navy will be developing those oh so much needed submarines "by themselves"....

[Chang_paarp]

"The troops of a country are just like the security guards of a house," he said. "If we don't have them, we'll be instantly invaded by thieves."

So the troops all sleep at the borders like most security guards at the gates of estates? Not the best analogy, but then again..........

[mike324]

"When comparing costs and benefits, the general said imported and domestically-made armoured cars are not highly different in price, with both costing around Bt40 million baht. However, domestically-made armoured cars are more worthwhile considering long-term maintenance and further development."

Corruption at its finest. DTI wages are much lower, research costs lower, no high tech manufacturing factory. Yet they are already claiming its the same price as imported vehicles. Maintenance? Not in the Thai vocab. I doubt it will even last a couple days in extreme offroad conditions. I'm always amaze at how government procurement are always taxed as well.

[cigar7]

It's probably the only one they have to show, and if you go to put an order they will most likely say: Mai Mi..Mot leo..

either that or it is just a decoy made out cardboards and old Nissan engine... with irrigation pipe for a canon...

I know the company that built it, and your comments aren't too far off the quality of their products.

BTW, it probably has a Toyota engine, not a Nissan. The RTA is partial to Toyota stuff.

To give just one example, I represented a US company & Thailand owns a couple thousand of that company's model of American vehicle, and I'll just use suspension parts here as one example, to be brief.

The US suspension parts are designed to (and do) last 30,000 miles at least when used off-road and thoroughly abused, which is what the US does - abuse those trucks. They are tie rods ends & ball joints etc... Parts full of grease & they have rubber boots to contain the grease.

This local company got some local replica parts that were FAR cheaper than the US parts, so of course the RTA bought from them. Much cheaper right? Cheaper quality, more expensive in the long run.

The rubber boots were made from cheap rubber (it needs to be expensive chemical-resistant rubber...remember the grease?)

Anyhow, the local stuff fell apart within about 4-6 months (regardless of the number of miles of usage), so just going by that one example, well, use your imagination.

Just like most things "Made in Thailand"! It looks good day and operates well on day one, but within a year or 2, you'll have to buy a new one. Anybody who buys one should also get a 10-year warranty and maintenance plan included in the price, with guaranteed repairs to be completed within 48 hours.

Can you imagine being inside of that thing in a battle and the engine stops, or transmission seizes-up, the AC malfunctions, hydraulic hoses blow? More people will die in that thing than being saved.

Here is a quality similar vehicle: http://www.gdls.com/products/lav-family/lav-iii-apc.php

Edited November 16, 2015 by cigar7

[bangon04]

As an experienced combat veteran who has participated in a number of battles, including the Thai-Laotian Border War, the general underlined the need for the country to have well-prepared troops. This is also to combat possible future threats like global terrorism, not to mention the possibility of having to cooperate with Asean countries in national defence technology development.

Anyone else out there find this somewhat amusing. A hardened battle veteran?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai%E2%80%93Laotian_Border_War

So, not quite an Iraq, Afghanistan experience then general?

but probably the best they have. Most Thai generals (and they do have rather a lot) have probably never seen a street brawl.

[bangon04]

Nice - now the Army can drive through the streets of Bangkok in style for their next coup.

But look forward to the historic moment when a defiant Thai protester stands resolutely in front of the armoured car to show the world...

just hope he is not standing on a pedestrian crossing, because they will just drive straight over him.....

[DrTuner]

Army's happiness program is proceeding. Now they have replaced the "pretties" with generals. Soon you'll be served beer by armed privates.

[NCC1701A]

nice flat vertical sides to reflect radar.

"ok boys, remember those Thai tanks have a huge radar cross section, so just light em up."

i was going to make a joke about a Thai version of the Iraq "highway of death", but they already have highways of death everywhere.

[iBike]

Big boys and their toys...total waste of money that could be helping the poor people of Thailand.

The military is going crazy...submarines, missile defense systems and now this. What a surprise with a military government...NOT!

Silly comment, it takes much longer than a year to design develop and manufacture such vehicles. If indeed it is a new design.