Turkey asks 'what happened to us' over fans' disrespect

[webfact]

Turkey asks 'what happened to us' over fans' disrespect
By SUZAN FRASER

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — On a night of European soccer matches between national teams, the scenes in London and Istanbul were a study in contrast. The British and French fans at London's Wembley Stadium sang the French national anthem in solidarity over the Paris attacks, while in Istanbul hundreds of Turkish fans booed the Greek national anthem and disrupted a moment of silence for those killed in Paris.

The ugly incident illustrated what has been an ambivalent reaction to the attacks in Turkey — France's NATO ally.

While soccer fans are in no way representative of society as a whole, the scenes showed that the Paris attacks did not draw the same outpouring of grief as elsewhere in the mainly Muslim country, where recent research showed 8 percent of the population had a favorable view of the Islamic State group. Analysts said the episode revealed the dim view some Turks have of European nations they accuse of insensitivity toward attacks by Kurdish rebels and other groups that have plagued Turkey over the past few decades.

During the outburst at Istanbul's Basaksehir Fatih Terim Stadium on Tuesday night, team captain and Barcelona midfielder Arda tried fruitlessly to silence the crowd. And after the match ended in a 0-0 draw, Turkey's national team manager was furious.

"What has happened to us?" Fatih Terim said at a post-match news conference. "As we hold a minute of silence for the dead, can't we show patience even for a minute?"

The incident unfolded as the prime ministers of Turkey and Greece watched together from the stands as part of efforts to overcome historically strained ties — adding further embarrassment.

It drew strong criticism from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who appealed for soul-searching: "This is unacceptable," he said. "We are not a nation that cannot show respect to the anthem of another country. This is something we have to solve."

But Erdogan only mentioned the disruption of the national anthem — not the minute of silence — and pinned the blame on "a few hundred irresponsible people." Other officials condemned the uproar during the moment of silence, which included nationalist chants and scattered calls of "Allahu Akbar," or "God is great." Officials have scrambled to avoid a repeat in future games.

"We do not look positively upon the whistling protest or the protest with words that disrupt the minute of silence," said Omer Celik, the spokesman for the ruling Justice and Development Party.

The act of disrespect to the Paris victims comes amid a revival in Turkey's ties with European countries, as the EU seeks Turkey's help in stemming the influx of refugees into the continent. The bloc is offering Turkey cash incentives and progress on its EU membership in exchange for doing more to tackle the crisis.

Turkey has officially expressed its solidarity and grief for the victims. In the immediate aftermath, Erdogan hosted world leaders for a summit of the Group of 20 largest economies, which was dominated by discussions on how to respond to the attacks.

During the moment of silence, the nationalist chant — "Martyrs don't die. The homeland will never be divided" — reverberated loudest. The slogan is chanted to denounce the rebels of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, which has waged a three-decade long war for autonomy for Kurds in southeast Turkey. Tens of thousands of people have died in the violence and the group is considered a terrorist organization by Turkey and its allies. The fighting flared anew in July, killing hundreds of people and derailing a fragile peace process with the PKK.

Many in Turkey believe European countries, including France, have supported the PKK out of sympathy for Kurds and have remained indifferent to violence by the group.

"This is the reflection of the logic: They don't show us the same sensitivity, why should we show them that sensitivity?" said sociologist and columnist Ahmet Talimciler, in comments published in the Hurriyet newspaper.

A similar minute of silence for the 102 victims of a bomb attack in the capital Ankara was also disrupted by fans last month during an international game against Iceland, in the conservative and religious city of Konya. The attack had targeted Kurdish and leftist activists protesting the government, believed by some conservative Turks to have been PKK supporters.

Similar hard-line fervor may have fed the outburst at Tuesday's match, some commentators said.

"I believe that some reacted this way because they regard those killed in Paris as worthless. They are infidels or foreigners," wrote Tanil Bora, an expert on Turkish nationalism, in Hurriyet. "There are many conservative Muslims who felt grief for the Paris massacre ... but it's the ugly voices that come out the loudest."


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-24

[thaibeachlovers]

They have a point. THOUSANDS of Muslims have died at the hands of IS and Europe/ US have displayed no sympathy. Why should Turks be sympathetic to a few ( in comparison ) deaths in Paris?

[Seastallion]

It just shows that you have low class, no-manners soccer hooligans everywhere.

But, to be fair, perhaps some of the disrespect was a convoluted (and misplaced) form of respect for the other dead that no country appears to have bothered to offer condolences for. What of the 140 dead at a Kenyan university? In the same week as the Paris tragedy, scores died at the hands of Islamist extremism in Cairo, Kenya and Beirut, but it is Paris that gets all the attention.

[lee b]

Anyone who distrupts a moment of silence for people that have passed away have no respect for anyone or anything in my book ! Terrible ! ( and this is not just for football fans )

[ggt]

While soccer fans are in no way representative of society as a whole.

Unfortunately, I believe the disrespect for the slain Paris infidels is representative of Muslim communities in general...there is no outrage at Muslim people destroying the ME...they are either unconcerned, afraid, or proud of their brother's accomplishments.

The Muslim community has not risen up against IS in a meaningful way...their lack of speaking out against IS atrocities...speaks volumes...

[jacky54]

It's always the same with these people, always what about US, always they see themselves as the victims, the oppressed and the hard done by. These fans were just being true to form.

[reggaebkk]

They have a point. THOUSANDS of Muslims have died at the hands of IS and Europe/ US have displayed no sympathy. Why should Turks be sympathetic to a few ( in comparison ) deaths in Paris?

I agree very big! But not only that, Turkey has had around 12 terror attacks leaving over 150 dead in 2015 alone and I never saw so much as a Turkish sympathy bumper sticker on a donkey's bum.

I am French (and Christian) and this whole sympathy thing makes me puke considering that France, holder of a veto privilege at the UN Security Council, is accomplice, passively and actively, of millions of death in the Middle East and elsewhere during the past 25 years.

Now that the tiniest drop of poopoo hits the fan back home we see this whole marketing campaign for sympathy and war and it is disgusting, shame on my homeland!

This is no France anymore but the ghost of a puppet.

[sanukjim]

While soccer fans are in no way representative of society as a whole.

Unfortunately, I believe the disrespect for the slain Paris infidels is representative of Muslim communities in general...there is no outrage at Muslim people destroying the ME...they are either unconcerned, afraid, or proud of their brother's accomplishments.

The Muslim community has not risen up against IS in a meaningful way...their lack of speaking out against IS atrocities...speaks volumes...

You are right ,When the leader of the Muslim community in Washing DC was asked about why he and other Muslim leaders weren't condemning the blowing up of school buses by jihadist he refused to discuss the reasons.So you are right the Muslims not involved in jihad or the Isis are afraid,proud,or STUPIDLY INDIFFERENT.

[Credo]

Did Turkey ask for a moment of silence and have it refused?

The fact that the French care for the innocent victims says a great deal.

[DaddyWarbucks]

They have a point. THOUSANDS of Muslims have died at the hands of IS and Europe/ US have displayed no sympathy. Why should Turks be sympathetic to a few ( in comparison ) deaths in Paris?

I agree very big! But not only that, Turkey has had around 12 terror attacks leaving over 150 dead in 2015 alone and I never saw so much as a Turkish sympathy bumper sticker on a donkey's bum.

I am French (and Christian) and this whole sympathy thing makes me puke considering that France, holder of a veto privilege at the UN Security Council, is accomplice, passively and actively, of millions of death in the Middle East and elsewhere during the past 25 years.

Now that the tiniest drop of poopoo hits the fan back home we see this whole marketing campaign for sympathy and war and it is disgusting, shame on my homeland!

This is no France anymore but the ghost of a puppet.

Compliments to you - as a Frenchman - for speaking up.

[chilli42]

And what outpouring of global sorrow was shared due to the bombings in Turkiye and Lebanon? It was disrespectful of the fans to behave in that way but I am sure they are keenly aware that the Western powers don't give a toss when their people die.

[simple1]

It just shows that you have low class, no-manners soccer hooligans everywhere.

But, to be fair, perhaps some of the disrespect was a convoluted (and misplaced) form of respect for the other dead that no country appears to have bothered to offer condolences for. What of the 140 dead at a Kenyan university? In the same week as the Paris tragedy, scores died at the hands of Islamist extremism in Cairo, Kenya and Beirut, but it is Paris that gets all the attention.

Some years back Noam Chomsky analysed Western media coverage, or rather lack of, concerning suffering in non Western countries. Don't agree with everything he says, but at the time made sense to me. However, though disagree with using the minute of silence in this manner, from the OP.

During the moment of silence, the nationalist chant — "Martyrs don't die. The homeland will never be divided" — reverberated loudest. The slogan is chanted to denounce the rebels of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, which has waged a three-decade long war for autonomy for Kurds in southeast Turkey. Tens of thousands of people have died in the violence and the group is considered a terrorist organization by Turkey and its allies. The fighting flared anew in July, killing hundreds of people and derailing a fragile peace process with the PKK.

[Scott]

If there was a moment of silence for all those who died in the ME, the silence would be deafening.

[erobando]

While soccer fans are in no way representative of society as a whole.

Unfortunately, I believe the disrespect for the slain Paris infidels is representative of Muslim communities in general...there is no outrage at Muslim people destroying the ME...they are either unconcerned, afraid, or proud of their brother's accomplishments.

The Muslim community has not risen up against IS in a meaningful way...their lack of speaking out against IS atrocities...speaks volumes...

This instance is pretty clearly right-wing / Turkish ultra-nationalist sentiment, not speicifically Islamist and more influenced by their conflict with the Kurds (also majority Sunnis).

Of course, the result of this nationalism helps Daesh because the Turkish government is primarily focused on reducing Kurdish power (who are fighting Daesh).

As far as no outrage by Muslims on the violence in the Middle East... I'm not even sure what this means or what you think some people should be doing and who you think should be doing it.

The violence in the Middle East involves various groups fighting with several layers of proxy wars by regional and international powers... literally dozens of groups / nations acting on what they perceive as self-interests.

[ggt]

While soccer fans are in no way representative of society as a whole.

Unfortunately, I believe the disrespect for the slain Paris infidels is representative of Muslim communities in general...there is no outrage at Muslim people destroying the ME...they are either unconcerned, afraid, or proud of their brother's accomplishments.

The Muslim community has not risen up against IS in a meaningful way...their lack of speaking out against IS atrocities...speaks volumes...

This instance is pretty clearly right-wing / Turkish ultra-nationalist sentiment, not speicifically Islamist and more influenced by their conflict with the Kurds (also majority Sunnis).

Of course, the result of this nationalism helps Daesh because the Turkish government is primarily focused on reducing Kurdish power (who are fighting Daesh).

As far as no outrage by Muslims on the violence in the Middle East... I'm not even sure what this means or what you think some people should be doing and who you think should be doing it.

The violence in the Middle East involves various groups fighting with several layers of proxy wars by regional and international powers... literally dozens of groups / nations acting on what they perceive as self-interests.

The Muslims that are not denouncing IS...that I am speaking of...are the ones that have been enjoying the freedoms of living in Western cultures where they are allowed many opportunities...especially the women...that their Muslim homeland denounces as being pagan and so on...where is the outrage from the Muslim folks who do not live in the ME?...when will they renounce Islamic violence and support their new home country?

[thaibeachlovers]

While soccer fans are in no way representative of society as a whole.

Unfortunately, I believe the disrespect for the slain Paris infidels is representative of Muslim communities in general...there is no outrage at Muslim people destroying the ME...they are either unconcerned, afraid, or proud of their brother's accomplishments.

The Muslim community has not risen up against IS in a meaningful way...their lack of speaking out against IS atrocities...speaks volumes...

This instance is pretty clearly right-wing / Turkish ultra-nationalist sentiment, not speicifically Islamist and more influenced by their conflict with the Kurds (also majority Sunnis).

Of course, the result of this nationalism helps Daesh because the Turkish government is primarily focused on reducing Kurdish power (who are fighting Daesh).

As far as no outrage by Muslims on the violence in the Middle East... I'm not even sure what this means or what you think some people should be doing and who you think should be doing it.

The violence in the Middle East involves various groups fighting with several layers of proxy wars by regional and international powers... literally dozens of groups / nations acting on what they perceive as self-interests.

The Muslims that are not denouncing IS...that I am speaking of...are the ones that have been enjoying the freedoms of living in Western cultures where they are allowed many opportunities...especially the women...that their Muslim homeland denounces as being pagan and so on...where is the outrage from the Muslim folks who do not live in the ME?...when will they renounce Islamic violence and support their new home country?

when will they renounce Islamic violence and support their new home country?

Probably in about 600 years when Islam develops to the same extent as Christianity. Currently, Islam is about the same as Christianity was in the Middle Ages.

Don't expect a devout Muslim to put their country above the religion, as the religion is everything to them.

[Andaman Al]

Whatever the Turks did at a sports stadium the shame is simply on them.

England stood with France. Even the commentator starts crying. Well done the English fans, a true moment of defiance and support. ISIS go an quake in your boots, someone is coming to get you!

[Lukecan]

The booing by Turkish fans is not a support to ISIS trust me, they were chanting our soldiers will always be martyrs, you will never divide Turkey.

Why were they chanting this? Because Europe has in the past and still continues to support PKK, which is a Kurdish terror organization. They have claimed the lives of more than 30,000 people. Europe just experienced real terror, we just found it hypocritical that they were going berserk about it while turning a blind eye to the PKK terror which has plagued Turkey for more than 30 years. Countries like Belgium, France, Germany, Sweden have granted refugee status to thousands of PKK terrorists.

Isn't it hypocritical, you support terror in Turkey for well over 30 years, and when it strikes you, suddenly you know what it feels like to become a victim of it?

Edited November 24, 2015 by Lukecan

[Steely Dan]

Bosnian fans also booed during a moments silence for the Paris victims, obviously they have short memories seeing as it was Western nations who saved them from genocide.

[Steely Dan]

The booing by Turkish fans is not a support to ISIS trust me, they were chanting our soldiers will always be martyrs, you will never divide Turkey.

Why were they chanting this? Because Europe has in the past and still continues to support PKK, which is a Kurdish terror organization. They have claimed the lives of more than 30,000 people. Europe just experienced real terror, we just found it hypocritical that they were going berserk about it while turning a blind eye to the PKK terror which has plagued Turkey for more than 30 years. Countries like Belgium, France, Germany, Sweden have granted refugee status to thousands of PKK terrorists.

Isn't it hypocritical, you support terror in Turkey for well over 30 years, and when it strikes you, suddenly you know what it feels like to become a victim of it?

Okay, let's pursue this. The Turkish government has for ages turned a blind eye to ISIS to the extent Erdogan's son is involved in the purchase of oil from them. Anything to prevent a Kurdish homeland within Syria. So ISIS supporters murder civilians in Paris, well Turkey has already shown where their priorities lay, with blocking a Kurdish homeland ranking above stopping ISIS.