'Most' Iraqis believe US is an Islamic State ally

[AlexRRR]

Only Americans and dreamers think theres nothing in it....I mean who has a history of meddling in sovereign nations affairs?

Russia, before that the Soviet Union. Before that, the British Empire, and France, Belgium and all the other imperial powers.

Off the top of my head i could rattle off a number of places, far and wide, at least when the Russians get involved apart from Cuba keep it close to home.

[AlexRRR]

The US has created IS [iSIL or what ever name is used in the BS media now].

Obama is a war criminal ... nothing else.

There is no excuse for the damage the US has done to the middle east. Millions of lives lost

for plain profits and still some people fall for the lies they are being told from their governments.

Sad how ignorant people can be really.

Guaranteed, a couple of days without heat, light and transport and you and your like will be the first to whinge about the US not protecting the nation's interests in middle eastern oil. Would you really want to risk your nation grinding to a standstill in a very short space of time? Without our oil dependency, the west would gladly leave the middle East to get on with it.

What a self serving narrow view of life in general.....becasue you need it you go and just take it...

We have now seen that the US cooked up IS. Iraqi's don't trust the US there liberators, what a god dam mess.

The worst part about this is there dragging in there " allies" i don't want my son to end up in the deserts of the middle east to keep you in cheap petrol.

[craigt3365]

Nothing new.. Putin also knows. I know. The mess us made cant be solved. Thats where Putin comes in.Putin knows that all so called US allies are buying oil from Is . This is just the begining. Just waiting for next whistleblower.

You do know Syria is buying oil from ISIS also....Also Iran.

Sure. But Russia is bombing the oil depots. Why didnt US do that 3-4 months ago? Russia simply dont care if Syria, Iran or whoever buys. If you want to win theres no but´s and if´s. So lets see how much longer they will buy.

US didn't bomb the oil refineries for several reasons. One, civilian casualties. Two, environmental consequences. Three, they wanted to keep the facilities in place to help Syria financially when this mess is all over. You think Russia is going to pay for rebuilding what they bombed? LOL

[Scott]

Iraq, along with a number of ME countries, believe what they want to believe regardless of facts. The more outrageous the story, the more that believe it. While working in Iraq, I was told by numerous people that the Kurdish uprising started after George Bush Sr.'s television interview in which he said something to the effect, that 'it was up to the Iraqi people' to deal with Saddam. He then blinked three times. The Kurds believed that the 3 blinks were a signal to rebel and that American support would be forthcoming.

This poll has as much validity as asking a group of 3 year olds, whether they believe in Santa Claus.

[retarius]

It's the Middle East. Believing any odd number of rumors, not necessarily based on hard facts, and often contradictory - is practically the way of life.

That is so true.

I recently read a report of some random interviews with Syrian refugees in Germany. They mostly believed in all kinds of wild conspiracy theory garbage (mostly about the USA and Israel). No, they're mostly not terrorists, but their political views are ignorant at best, and certainly some are very recruitable.

People have access to information from the information that is disseminated. Most ordinary people get their information from their local press and government.

You get to hear what your government wants you to hear. It is called propaganda, public relations or opinion development.

Your particular view based on what the Western press say, is no better guide to the 'truth' that what Syrian refugees believe.

Obama, Cameron, Erdogan, NATO and the Pentagon have lied so many times that it is impossible now to believe anything that comes out of their mouth.

What on earth are all those lorries doing hauling oil from the Syrian oilfields and going into Turkey doing? Give a better explanation that Putin's, and yet yesterday Obama denied that Turkey has ever armed our bought oil from IS? Previously he had said they dodn;t bomb the oil convoys because of concern for civilians ie the truckers lives, and now he says that they weren't smuggling oil. Well if they are not smuggling oil to Turkey and Turkey isn't buying oil, well why start bombing them now? Explanations please.

Intelligent people now use the internet to canvas a broad range of opinions rather than relying on their governments' propaganda as the intellectually lazy and ignorant do. Getting a range of opinion is not even hard to do....it would open your eyes...there was a photo on FARS of an Apache helicopter escorting a convoy of IS white Toyotas with black flags...could it have been photoshopped? Yes, but it could equally well be real. We didn't know where all the white Toyotas came from until we learned the CIA might have bought them for IS.

This is a dirty war, and truth is the first casualty of war. Personally I would be more inclined to give greater weight to those that had actually experienced it, than those who sit and read propaganda thousands of miles away.

[craigt3365]

It's the Middle East. Believing any odd number of rumors, not necessarily based on hard facts, and often contradictory - is practically the way of life.

That is so true.

I recently read a report of some random interviews with Syrian refugees in Germany. They mostly believed in all kinds of wild conspiracy theory garbage (mostly about the USA and Israel). No, they're mostly not terrorists, but their political views are ignorant at best, and certainly some are very recruitable.

People have access to information from the information that is disseminated. Most ordinary people get their information from their local press and government.

You get to hear what your government wants you to hear. It is called propaganda, public relations or opinion development.

Your particular view based on what the Western press say, is no better guide to the 'truth' that what Syrian refugees believe.

Obama, Cameron, Erdogan, NATO and the Pentagon have lied so many times that it is impossible now to believe anything that comes out of their mouth.

What on earth are all those lorries doing hauling oil from the Syrian oilfields and going into Turkey doing? Give a better explanation that Putin's, and yet yesterday Obama denied that Turkey has ever armed our bought oil from IS? Previously he had said they dodn;t bomb the oil convoys because of concern for civilians ie the truckers lives, and now he says that they weren't smuggling oil. Well if they are not smuggling oil to Turkey and Turkey isn't buying oil, well why start bombing them now? Explanations please.

Intelligent people now use the internet to canvas a broad range of opinions rather than relying on their governments' propaganda as the intellectually lazy and ignorant do. Getting a range of opinion is not even hard to do....it would open your eyes...there was a photo on FARS of an Apache helicopter escorting a convoy of IS white Toyotas with black flags...could it have been photoshopped? Yes, but it could equally well be real. We didn't know where all the white Toyotas came from until we learned the CIA might have bought them for IS.

This is a dirty war, and truth is the first casualty of war. Personally I would be more inclined to give greater weight to those that had actually experienced it, than those who sit and read propaganda thousands of miles away.

Many people get information from a variety of sources. Many NOT controlled by a government. Don't just blame the west for lying. Russia has a very poor record with regards to this, as do all the dictators located in the middle east. Freedom of speech is pretty much non-existent in countries ruled by dictators.

And as you know, Syria is buying ISIS oil. Maybe Russia can help stop that????

FARS for a credible news source? Really? LOL People tend to read news that matches what they want to hear.

As for Photoshopping pics, FARS has done that before:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/25/iran-michelle-obama-oscars-fars-news_n_2760016.html

[Morch]

How about listening to what's publicly stated by US military and intelligence services ?

They have all confirmed the information !!!

Or maybe listen to General Clark:

Quote:

General Wesley Clark admits “allies” created ISIS to fight Hezbollah

FEBRUARY 27, 2015 AT 10:10 AM

General Wesley K. Clark, former presidential candidate and NATO supreme allied commander during the NATO war against Yugoslavia, stated in a recent interview on CNN that “ISIS got started through funding from our friends and allies.” He did not specify exactly which US allies he was talking about. It has been widely reported that much of the funding had come from the oil-rich elites of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf monarchies, which of course are de facto allies of Israel. Clark did say that ISIS “is part of a strategy to destroy Hezbollah with an army of extremists.” Hezbollah was formed to drive Israel out of Lebanon, and Israel is the only country with an interest in destroying it.

... believe it now ?

About as much as I believe any conspiracy theory copied from David Duke's website

http://davidduke.com/general-wesley-clark-admits-allies-created-isis-fight-hezbollah/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke

Edited December 3, 2015 by Morch

[Morch]

It's the Middle East. Believing any odd number of rumors, not necessarily based on hard facts, and often contradictory - is practically the way of life.

That is so true.

I recently read a report of some random interviews with Syrian refugees in Germany. They mostly believed in all kinds of wild conspiracy theory garbage (mostly about the USA and Israel). No, they're mostly not terrorists, but their political views are ignorant at best, and certainly some are very recruitable.

People have access to information from the information that is disseminated. Most ordinary people get their information from their local press and government.

You get to hear what your government wants you to hear. It is called propaganda, public relations or opinion development.

Your particular view based on what the Western press say, is no better guide to the 'truth' that what Syrian refugees believe.

Obama, Cameron, Erdogan, NATO and the Pentagon have lied so many times that it is impossible now to believe anything that comes out of their mouth.

What on earth are all those lorries doing hauling oil from the Syrian oilfields and going into Turkey doing? Give a better explanation that Putin's, and yet yesterday Obama denied that Turkey has ever armed our bought oil from IS? Previously he had said they dodn;t bomb the oil convoys because of concern for civilians ie the truckers lives, and now he says that they weren't smuggling oil. Well if they are not smuggling oil to Turkey and Turkey isn't buying oil, well why start bombing them now? Explanations please.

Intelligent people now use the internet to canvas a broad range of opinions rather than relying on their governments' propaganda as the intellectually lazy and ignorant do. Getting a range of opinion is not even hard to do....it would open your eyes...there was a photo on FARS of an Apache helicopter escorting a convoy of IS white Toyotas with black flags...could it have been photoshopped? Yes, but it could equally well be real. We didn't know where all the white Toyotas came from until we learned the CIA might have bought them for IS.

This is a dirty war, and truth is the first casualty of war. Personally I would be more inclined to give greater weight to those that had actually experienced it, than those who sit and read propaganda thousands of miles away.

Err...no. In the Middle East, rumors have lives of their own. Sure, sometimes they are intentionally spread to advance certain agendas, but on many occasions, they just pop up in order to serve as simple explanations to complex events.

For some reason, people seem to imagine that the range of information sources available to the average citizen in the West is limited compared to those living in the Middle East (or for that matter, Russia). That if a far cry from the actual state of things, even if one assumes that internet access, literacy and education levels are similar (they are not, though).

The only reasons Western leaders are more often caught by media is that the option to criticize exists, and the relative ease in which related information is accessed makes it possible. Imagining that Putin does not have an agenda which got nothing (or little) to do with IS, or that Middle Eastern leaders got a better take on things, are choices, not facts. Taking most things publicly said by politicians at face value is a mistake. And that goes for almost of of them, regardless of side.

The situation in the Middle East is not static. Former allies become enemies, necessities often dictate strange bedfellows, and greed plays its part as well. The thing is that many times people get hung on something which happened (or was said to have happened) and continue treating it as solid reality, even as related and relevant conditions change.

Getting information from a wide spectrum of sources is great. Assuming that a given refugee actually got a better handle on things is not necessarily a sound proposition. People on the run and under duress do not normally have time to analyze and follow all related events. On the other hand, many of those posting here have years of experience in the Middle East under their belts, which many times comes with a wider scope of assessment.

[derator01]

Please abide by forum rules and show respect to other members.

[AlexRRR]

Nothing new.. Putin also knows. I know. The mess us made cant be solved. Thats where Putin comes in.Putin knows that all so called US allies are buying oil from Is . This is just the begining. Just waiting for next whistleblower.

You do know Syria is buying oil from ISIS also....Also Iran.

Sure. But Russia is bombing the oil depots. Why didnt US do that 3-4 months ago? Russia simply dont care if Syria, Iran or whoever buys. If you want to win theres no but´s and if´s. So lets see how much longer they will buy.

US didn't bomb the oil refineries for several reasons. One, civilian casualties. Two, environmental consequences. Three, they wanted to keep the facilities in place to help Syria financially when this mess is all over. You think Russia is going to pay for rebuilding what they bombed? LOL

Since when has the US being concerned about anybody or anything involved with the Middle East?

When the US military went into Iraq and Afghanistan US building companies were right behind them, perhaps the reason the oil installations haven't been bombed is because someone has been getting access to cheap oil....dont you think?

[slipperylobster]

Only Americans and dreamers think theres nothing in it....I mean who has a history of meddling in sovereign nations affairs?

England was the worst...of the lot. Historically.

Up until we kicked em out, and made a name for ourselves.

Edited December 4, 2015 by slipperylobster

[arjunadawn]

The US has created IS [iSIL or what ever name is used in the BS media now].

Obama is a war criminal ... nothing else.

There is no excuse for the damage the US has done to the middle east. Millions of lives lost

for plain profits and still some people fall for the lies they are being told from their governments.

Sad how ignorant people can be really.

This post above should be posted repeatedly.

[METV]

Yes and so do we.

[Jingthing]

Yes and so do we.

Please speak for yourself. "We" don't all look good in tin foil hats.

[German Viking]

It's the Middle East. Believing any odd number of rumors, not necessarily based on hard facts, and often contradictory - is practically the way of life.

That is so true.

I recently read a report of some random interviews with Syrian refugees in Germany. They mostly believed in all kinds of wild conspiracy theory garbage (mostly about the USA and Israel). No, they're mostly not terrorists, but their political views are ignorant at best, and certainly some are very recruitable.

People have access to information from the information that is disseminated. Most ordinary people get their information from their local press and government.

You get to hear what your government wants you to hear. It is called propaganda, public relations or opinion development.

Your particular view based on what the Western press say, is no better guide to the 'truth' that what Syrian refugees believe.

Obama, Cameron, Erdogan, NATO and the Pentagon have lied so many times that it is impossible now to believe anything that comes out of their mouth.

What on earth are all those lorries doing hauling oil from the Syrian oilfields and going into Turkey doing? Give a better explanation that Putin's, and yet yesterday Obama denied that Turkey has ever armed our bought oil from IS? Previously he had said they dodn;t bomb the oil convoys because of concern for civilians ie the truckers lives, and now he says that they weren't smuggling oil. Well if they are not smuggling oil to Turkey and Turkey isn't buying oil, well why start bombing them now? Explanations please.

Intelligent people now use the internet to canvas a broad range of opinions rather than relying on their governments' propaganda as the intellectually lazy and ignorant do. Getting a range of opinion is not even hard to do....it would open your eyes...there was a photo on FARS of an Apache helicopter escorting a convoy of IS white Toyotas with black flags...could it have been photoshopped? Yes, but it could equally well be real. We didn't know where all the white Toyotas came from until we learned the CIA might have bought them for IS.

This is a dirty war, and truth is the first casualty of war. Personally I would be more inclined to give greater weight to those that had actually experienced it, than those who sit and read propaganda thousands of miles away.

Good post I agree 100%.

[German Viking]

Only Americans and dreamers think theres nothing in it....I mean who has a history of meddling in sovereign nations affairs?

England was the worst...of the lot. Historically.

Up until we kicked em out, and made a name for ourselves.

The past can nobody change, but present and the future, this is just a question of the right will, and less lobbyism.

[willyumiii]

Lot of rumors started in the white house a while back i recall....

The rumors about WMDs??

[craigt3365]

The US has created IS [iSIL or what ever name is used in the BS media now].

Obama is a war criminal ... nothing else.

There is no excuse for the damage the US has done to the middle east. Millions of lives lost

for plain profits and still some people fall for the lies they are being told from their governments.

Sad how ignorant people can be really.

This post above should be posted repeatedly.

A very good description of how ISIS was created. Interesting article to read:

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/3/9837782/isis-one-sentence

[Rancid]

Those Iraqis are correct. Only flag wavers, reality deniers and Fox news viewers could possibly believe otherwise. The information proving it is out there for those bothered to look, even many US officials are now admitting it.

So now we even have Turkey sending troops into Iraq to protect oil shipments from the ruling Kurdish crime family. Add that to attacking the Russian plane in retaliation for attacks on ISIS oil that they also buy.

Reportedly a lot of that underpriced stolen oil ends up in Israel, so they are also complicit.

Turkey wouldn't dare do anything without the US standing behind them. Erdogan mafia clan reportedly making billions, sort of reminds us of the heroin trade out of Afghanistan that was also never stopped. Same old same old.

All this could end up in different outcomes, hopefully a real war won't be one of them.

[slipperylobster]

....and we think the Iraqis are probably more than a bit confused

[German Viking]

Here a map from googleearth I made a red line south of the turkish-syrian border this is about the 60 miles not fly neutral zone.

The reason to protect the illegal Oil convois from Mossul over the M 4 to Aleppo, then down to ports in Lebanon or to Israel many are guarded by US army Apache helicopters, my friends over there confirmed it.

Your 'friend' wouldn't happen to be Syiana Afraa a pro Assad regime supporter who also reports for Russian and Iranian propaganda outlets.

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/12/the-oil-mafia-stolen-oil-from-syria-and-iraq-taken-to-kurdistan-turkey-and-israel.html

He working there in a Hospital he is just a social human with common sence, for sure not brainwashed.

Then it's rather strange your 'friend' has exactly the same message, practically the same wording, as a pro Assad activist blog site. Sorry, don't believe your being honest, more likely a troll

To the similar opinion to a Assad activist blocker.

1. I did'nt know them.

2. Second there is in general only 1 truth, this can be the reason for the same opinion.

3. Brainwashed Morons will never die out, before the last human is gone.

[simple1]

To the similar opinion to a Assad activist blocker.

1. I did'nt know them.

2. Second there is in general only 1 truth, this can be the reason for the same opinion.

3. Brainwashed Morons will never die out, before the last human is gone.

I find it odd that someone who's signature indicates being ex Norwegian combat infantry accepts propaganda & conspiracy theories as truth. If you're of the opinion pro Assad blog sites utilised by your 'friend', Russian and Iranian media outlets etc etc etc represent the 'one & only truth' up to you.

US Apache helicopters provide security for Daesh oil shipments transiting though Syria & Iraq - you really believe this nonsense.

[derator01]

No more conspiracy posts, please. And stick to the topic.

[Publicus]

<deleted post removed>

It is odd most Iraqis think the US and Daesh are allies.

It is even more odd the rightwing in the USA and the Putin financed right in Europe prepping for upcoming elections there think Putin necessarily opposes it.

Putin's original design to bomb rebels supported by US & Coalition and partners to include Turkey was to allow Daesh to survive. Putin wanted to present the US and Turkey with a stark choice between Daesh or Assad. This stupid idea is proving to be even more stupid than most other of Putin's stupid ideas.

Putin had stupidly and foolishly believed he'd go into Syria, kick arse except for Daesh, that it would take about three months, maybe up to six months, and that Putin could use only a limited air force and a few other Russian forces to do this quick and simple task. Wrong again. Nothing quick, nothing simple except Putin's mind.

Now Putin is building up an airbase in central Syria closer to rebel hideouts because the rebels keep evading too many of Putin's bombings. Putin is bringing in 100 more planes to include attack helicopters, a battlestar galactica air warfare system called S 400, more armanents and forces, and the Russian Chekist has taken to cussing out Turkey. Putin the master strategist is in fact the dimwitted fool. The tuff guy is only punching his light weight. Which is all he can ever do.