Fake Plonk !

[daoyai]

I know this has been covered regarding Monte Clair but as I decided in honor of the cool season I would buy a bottle o' cheap red. In the past I bought some 2 litre bottles coming from Italy or Chile "Concho y Torro" or something... to my uncultured palate they tasted like grandpas wine. ... I like.... Now it seems most or all of the 2 litre bottles and boxes too are "fruit wine".. not just Monte Clair ...... I bought Cassavini Rosso, just tasteless. ... ....so where is the real plonk? I know I can buy all the 750 ml. bottles I want but I am looking for a real deal jug.

[LivinLOS]

The cheapest almost drinkable one seems to be the brookfields.. But note I said almost.

The rimping bargain bins not much more expensive and sometimes find tolerable 750 mls.

[sharktooth]

That dog bile you get in boxes is NOT wine. Unfortunately decent wine here is taxed up the farter, so you need to shell out for even a mediocre bottle.

[daoyai]

It wan not that long ago that there were a couple brands in 2L. bottles that i liked, actual wine in the B.600-700 range. That is what I am asking about... guess those days are over. (?)

[LivinLOS]

It wan not that long ago that there were a couple brands in 2L. bottles that i liked, actual wine in the B.600-700 range. That is what I am asking about... guess those days are over. (?)

Again brookfields does a 2l bottle.. Its 4xx or so baht..

I will stress.. Its absolute lowest drinkable wine.. But its a good bit better IMO than mont clair / petter vella etc.. I get it when the missus has her hordes descending for eye of newt and leg of toad..

[amexpat]

I recommend a fortified white to go with the eye of newt. Perhaps a beaujolais nouveau with the toad leg.

[LivinLOS]

I recommend a fortified white to go with the eye of newt. Perhaps a beaujolais nouveau with the toad leg.

So would eye of newt be a seafood selection ??

[Puwa]

Fake monk in the temple, fake bonk in the massage parlor, fake wonk in the classroom, now fake plonk in a box.

[terminatorchiangmai]

Try the Marisol wine.

Comes in boxes and bottles and is very acceptable.

Cheers

Edited December 3, 2015 by terminatorchiangmai

[Briggsy]

Anything under 500 Baht for a 75cl bottle is imported grape juice with added ethanol.

[neilrob]

Anything under 500 Baht for a 75cl bottle is imported grape juice with added ethanol.

This statement is simply not true, not even close to true. I will give just one example: Los Tilos 2013 Cabernet Sauvignon from Chile. This is far from a great wine, but is a perfectly drinkable Cabernet (avoid the Cabernet Merlot blend, which is much less drinkable in my opinion). It sells for the equivalent of about 300-350B outside Thailand, eg. Canada, so is not in the very cheapest category in those countries. It is currently on sale at Rimping for 449B for a drinkable wine.

Another statement sometimes posted on Thaivisa is about how incredibly high taxes are on wines in Thailand. If you look at actual tax rates you will see that they are indeed high but nowhere near the hundreds of % sometimes posted. Compare the price of an everyday wine including tax---the same wine---inside and outside Thailand. Typically the price inside Thailand is about 50 to 75% higher than outside. The Los Tilos wine above illustrates this.

[Aussieroaming]

Note this from the Austrade website, which explains the tariff on wine under the free trade agreement between Australia and Thailand. There is also one in force with Peru and Chile. So the exorbitant cost of wines is solely due to local taxes, not import tax.

Following paragraph copied from Austrade.

When the Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement entered into force, tariffs on Australian wine were gradually reduced from 54 per cent in 2005 to zero as of 1 January 2015. This provides Australian wine producers an immediate competitive advantage over wine from most other wine producing countries (excluding Chile, which also has a free trade agreement) that incur a tariff of 54 per cent (Source: DFAT, Key Outcomes of the Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement, Mar 2015). However, heavy locally imposed excise duties (after the point of importation) mean that retail wine prices in Thailand are still inflated compared with some markets.

Opportunities exist for low-cost private-label bottling for the major hypermarkets or wholesalers such as Tesco or Makro, as well as for five-star hotels.

[neilrob]

Useful point, Aussieroaming. My comments on tax rates apply to countries, such as Australia and Chile, with an agreement with Thailand. Note also that expensive wines are taxed at a higher % than everyday wines.

[LivinLOS]

Anything under 500 Baht for a 75cl bottle is imported grape juice with added ethanol.

Not true..

Simply look for the yellow or blue tax stickers..

[LivinLOS]

Compare the price of an everyday wine including tax---the same wine---inside and outside Thailand. Typically the price inside Thailand is about 50 to 75% higher than outside. The Los Tilos wine above illustrates this.

So why is it I can get very drinkable decent wines in Cambodia for 10 - 15 usd a bottle.. and the same kind of quality seems to be in the 800 - 1200 perhaps range here ??

[LivinLOS]

Note this from the Austrade website, which explains the tariff on wine under the free trade agreement between Australia and Thailand. There is also one in force with Peru and Chile. So the exorbitant cost of wines is solely due to local taxes, not import tax.

People dont care if its import tax, excise tax, sales tax, or FAT (farang added tax).. Its all tax.

Still curious what a bottle of wine sold at 1000b, how much of that number is taxation ???

[xylophone]

Try the Marisol wine.

Comes in boxes and bottles and is very acceptable.

Cheers

Sorry to have to inform you that Marisol (your spelling) has fruit juice added to it and is 'produced and bottled' in Thailand by Siam Winery.

[xylophone]

Anything under 500 Baht for a 75cl bottle is imported grape juice with added ethanol.

Not so...........quite a few Chilean wines in bottle are now under 500 baht and are ok drinking, with NO fruit juice or ethanol added.

[neilrob]

Compare the price of an everyday wine including tax---the same wine---inside and outside Thailand. Typically the price inside Thailand is about 50 to 75% higher than outside. The Los Tilos wine above illustrates this.

So why is it I can get very drinkable decent wines in Cambodia for 10 - 15 usd a bottle.. and the same kind of quality seems to be in the 800 - 1200 perhaps range here ??

Try comparing the prices of the actual same wines---like for like---and you will get a much better idea, rather than based on what the "same kind of quality seems" to be.

You are talking about wines in Cambodia in the $12.50 range, ie. 450B. My experience is that you can get very drinkable decent wines in Thailand for about 650B, if you know where to look and what to buy. This is about 50% more than in Cambodia. Even 800B is only about 75% more than in Cambodia, consistent with my previous comments you quoted.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anything under 500 Baht for a 75cl bottle is imported grape juice with added ethanol.

This statement is simply not true, not even close to true. I will give just one example: Los Tilos 2013 Cabernet Sauvignon from Chile. This is far from a great wine, but is a perfectly drinkable Cabernet

Right. Plus it is also not true that fruit wine is grape juice with ethanol. (That would be Spy Wine Cooler and the like, which really has nothing to do with wine). But to get a lower duty/tax rate, producers are using a blend of mostly grapes, and whichever percentage of other fruits to qualify as fruit wine. Fruit wine is not sweet or even particularly fruity: Grapes are also sweet as (*$, which is what ferments into alcohol in the first place, reducing sweetness. Having a couple percent of rosella mixed in with grape and going through the usual winemaking process still results in something that can actually be a bit better than the most low-end wine made exclusively from (crappy) grapes.

[daoyai]

^^^ sweet vs dry in red wine is not the same as sweet like sugar, more about acidity and tanins. Mont Clair and all the yellow label stuff has little to no character .....or whatever it is that makes wine taste like wine. i can see how someone that doesn't really like wine could like these fruit wines as they are pretty much tasteless. The bar has been raised pretty high on the world market for cheap wine... Chile Italy Spain Agentina S. A. ... USA.., AUS.... all now produce cheap and good wine. ...... yellow tax stamp wines I have tried are..... FAKE PLONK

Edited December 3, 2015 by daoyai

[xylophone]

Anything under 500 Baht for a 75cl bottle is imported grape juice with added ethanol.

This statement is simply not true, not even close to true. I will give just one example: Los Tilos 2013 Cabernet Sauvignon from Chile. This is far from a great wine, but is a perfectly drinkable Cabernet

Right. Plus it is also not true that fruit wine is grape juice with ethanol. (That would be Spy Wine Cooler and the like, which really has nothing to do with wine). But to get a lower duty/tax rate, producers are using a blend of mostly grapes, and whichever percentage of other fruits to qualify as fruit wine. Fruit wine is not sweet or even particularly fruity: Grapes are also sweet as (*$, which is what ferments into alcohol in the first place, reducing sweetness. Having a couple percent of rosella mixed in with grape and going through the usual winemaking process still results in something that can actually be a bit better than the most low-end wine made exclusively from (crappy) grapes.

I think you'll find that the percentage of fruit juice/and/or rosella is quite a way above a couple of percent, and if my memory serves me correctly, that in another thread we were talking about an addition of around 20% in order to get around taxes etc.

I did try a red wine called "Belleville" (the one made in France) about three years ago when I discovered it and I had no idea it had fruit juice in it, as it drank very well, and although I haven't tried it for a long time, at around 295 baht a bottle it beats the like of Montclair hands down, as does the "Jump Yards" Shiraz from Wine Connection (produced and bottled in Vietnam with added fruit juice).

[ThaiPauly]

I actually like Peter Vella red wine, and so do many of my friends.

I must be the odd one out...but there you go, we can't all be the same!!

[LivinLOS]

I actually like Peter Vella red wine, and so do many of my friends.

I will concede its better than mont clair.. But the ones I have drunk with 'fruit wine' issues all gave me specially bad hangovers..

Perhaps I shouldnt have opened the second box !!

[Sparkles]

You realise how bad the cheap wines are here when you go back to your homeland,in my case Australia, and drink a mid range priced wine.

Its heaven but income,in most cases,or what you are prepared to pay in tax denotes what you drink here.Jacobs Creek a fairly inocuos wine in Oz is double the price here.

By the way they are not called "boxes". "Cask" wine is the correct terminoolgy,Invented in Australia the "cask" was used initially for cheap wine but now premium wines are sold in "casks" as they store easily,don't break and don't fall over. Still not acceptable to some wine snobs.

[xylophone]

I actually like Peter Vella red wine, and so do many of my friends.

I will concede its better than mont clair.. But the ones I have drunk with 'fruit wine' issues all gave me specially bad hangovers..

Perhaps I shouldnt have opened the second box !!

Maybe the grapes/grape juice are a better quality (than Montclair) when imported by Siam winery, however it is still produced in Thailand and fruit juice added, and according to an article I read in a Thai newspaper, some local Thai wine is also added to it?

For the record, I also get a hangover when drinking this stuff, hence the reason I stay away from it if at all possible.

Quote Sparkles: "Invented in Australia the "cask" was used initially for cheap wine but now premium wines are sold in "casks" as they store easily,don't break and don't fall over. Still not acceptable to some wine snobs".

Won't entirely agree with your post as I don't know any "Premium Wines" sold in cask, however it would be fair to say that many of them are better quality than they have been in the past, and I believe they are a good standby wine to keep in the fridge should one want to indulge in one or two glasses in an evening rather than opening a bottle.

[Beng]

Fake monk in the temple, fake bonk in the massage parlor, fake wonk in the classroom, now fake plonk in a box.

[ThaiPauly]

I actually like Peter Vella red wine, and so do many of my friends.

I will concede its better than mont clair.. But the ones I have drunk with 'fruit wine' issues all gave me specially bad hangovers..

Perhaps I shouldnt have opened the second box !!

Maybe the grapes/grape juice are a better quality (than Montclair) when imported by Siam winery, however it is still produced in Thailand and fruit juice added, and according to an article I read in a Thai newspaper, some local Thai wine is also added to it?

For the record, I also get a hangover when drinking this stuff, hence the reason I stay away from it if at all possible.

Quote Sparkles: "Invented in Australia the "cask" was used initially for cheap wine but now premium wines are sold in "casks" as they store easily,don't break and don't fall over. Still not acceptable to some wine snobs".

Won't entirely agree with your post as I don't know any "Premium Wines" sold in cask, however it would be fair to say that many of them are better quality than they have been in the past, and I believe they are a good standby wine to keep in the fridge should one want to indulge in one or two glasses in an evening rather than opening a bottle.

I never get a hangover from Peter Vella wine .....maybe because I only have 2 glasses a night lol