Authorities struggle to find motive for San Bernardino massacre

[NeverSure]

Cause : a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.

Cause were : possession of 2 assault rifles:

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449202517.967452.jpg

Oh, so the mere possession of the rifles "caused" a mass shooting. Interesting concept. Nuts, but interesting.

I suppose that the shootings in Paris were "caused" by someone having guns.

Those aren't assault rifles. Assault rifles are fully automatic. Ask a navy Seal if he'd carry one of those guns on an assault mission. "No."

In California where this occurred, it is illegal to purchase a gun that holds more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Hardly an assault rifle. If the perps had magazines that held more than 10 rounds they were already illegal.

Only the law abiding obey laws, so it does little good to pass these laws that criminals don't obey.

The cause of the shootings was in the minds of the shooters. It's called a motive. The FBI has turned the focus of the investigation toward terrorism and there are many reasons for that listed above.

Weapons used in Paris originated from Zastava weapons manufacturer. They were imported clandestinely through the black market from Macedonia. Although the affected countries, Belgium and France, have reputable weapons manufacturers like FNC and Famas, these models are not available for public purchase.

The weapons used in San Bernardino are AR-15's, the Walmart version that you can find between the milk and the butter in every Walmart. The 30 or 100 rounds ammo magazines are available all over the US.

Wether the use of fully automatic and/or semi-automatic weapons should be legalised in the US is a debate that I'm not really interested in. Too many mass shootings and gun fire fatalities seems not to be decisive for the hard liners.

The real motive will be difficult to confirm. Let's not forget that the attackers were neutralised at 0,43 miles from the parking lot of the center/Christmas party. It took +4 hours to block the SUV after a road block ? Time line and double crime scenes are not consistent.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449209199.785481.jpg

That graphic is ignorant. So are you and the people who "liked" your post.

AR-15's are perfectly legal and you can buy one at Walmart. Yes. It is the fully automatic "machine gun" rifles that are illegal to buy and sell and only those come under the federal "assault rifle ban".

At least the US Congress knew what it was talking about when it banned assault rifles.

The rifles pictured as being from the shooting are Walmart specials. They are legal AR-15's. They are not assault rifles even by US law definition.

I repeat. This happened in California where magazines that hold more than ten rounds are illegal. The magazines aren't shown in the pictures provided so we don't know if the guns were legal in California.

All we know is that they aren't assault rifles.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

Thorgal, on 04 Dec 2015 - 14:00, said:

AR15's are soooo old school.

That looks like pimped M16 to me.

Quote from link :

"The rifles were variants of the popular AR-15, the semiautomatic civilian version of a military M-16."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/weapons-in-san-bernardino-shootings-were-legally-obtained.html?_r=0

OK. We are getting off topic.

I know what an AR15 and an M16 and all the variants in between are.

Obviously you don't. An M-16 is a fully automatic ("machine gun") assault rifle and the AR-15 is only semi-automatic and is not an assault rifle.

Ignorant news writers who may have never seen a real gun and ignorant forum posters have a party pooling their ignorance.

Cheers.

[jacky54]

Just watched an interview on the BBC with the Imam of the Mosque the Islamic butcher attended. According to him the violence had nothing at all to do with Islam, well that's a relief then. Seems to be tens of thousands of Muslim murderers all over the world waving Korans and shouting their praises to Allah that have nothing to do with Islam as well, how do they get 'radicalized' by something that has nothing to do with Allah, Mohammad and the book of hate and death?

[ukrules]

So the truth finally emerges. Look it up.

Of course its what a lot of us already expected knew.

[SgtRock]

NeverSure, on 05 Dec 2015 - 04:28, said:

SgtRock, on 04 Dec 2015 - 14:08, said:

Thorgal, on 04 Dec 2015 - 14:00, said:Thorgal, on 04 Dec 2015 - 14:00, said:

SgtRock, on 04 Dec 2015 - 13:48, said:

AR15's are soooo old school.

That looks like pimped M16 to me.

Quote from link :

"The rifles were variants of the popular AR-15, the semiautomatic civilian version of a military M-16."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/weapons-in-san-bernardino-shootings-were-legally-obtained.html?_r=0

OK. We are getting off topic.

I know what an AR15 and an M16 and all the variants in between are.

Obviously you don't. An M-16 is a fully automatic ("machine gun") assault rifle and the AR-15 is only semi-automatic and is not an assault rifle.

Ignorant news writers who may have never seen a real gun and ignorant forum posters have a party pooling their ignorance.

Cheers.

Neversure.

I made a comment on the picture. Not the capabilities between the 2 models or their legal definitions.

When you can work out the difference, we can then talk about ignorance.

Cheers

[simple1]

<snip>

All we know is that they aren't assault rifles.

Cheers.

AR15's don't meet the legal definition, but certainly an efficient killing devices, I assume you'll come back with the detailed specs of even more efficient killing devices.

From the outside looking in US does come across a quite an odd society. 100 million friends tooled up just in case they don't like an Administration, role playing waiting at the window with weapons just in case a jihadist comes down your street, legally being able to acquire an AR15 from Walmart, body armour piercing bullets available to the public and the list goes on and on and on - &lt;deleted&gt;?

So sad to read of the terrible slaughter of innocents by the devotees of Daesh. Similar killing sprees by Islamists are likely to continue for years even after Daesh are defeated in the coming 2/3 years.

[lannarebirth]

<snip>

All we know is that they aren't assault rifles.

Cheers.

AR15's don't meet the legal definition, but certainly an efficient killing devices, I assume you'll come back with the detailed specs of even more efficient killing devices.

From the outside looking in US does come across a quite an odd society. 100 million friends tooled up just in case they don't like an Administration, role playing waiting at the window with weapons just in case a jihadist comes down your street, legally being able to acquire an AR15 from Walmart, body armour piercing bullets available to the public and the list goes on and on and on - <deleted>?

So sad to read of the terrible slaughter of innocents by the devotees of Daesh. Similar killing sprees by Islamists are likely to continue for years even after Daesh are defeated in the coming 2/3 years.

Actually, I'd be willing to take my chances with 100 million fellow citizens prepared to take out the government because chances are that would be the right thing to do if so many people felt that way and were prepared to act. Instead what you've got is 100 million abject cowards with big egos and fiery rhetoric who will more likely shoot their boss, best friend, wife, or their kid will kill the neighbor kid when they stumble upon their weapons cache.

[NeverSure]

<snip>

All we know is that they aren't assault rifles.

Cheers.

-snip- Similar killing sprees by Islamists are likely to continue for years even after Daesh are defeated in the coming 2/3 years.

Not in my neighborhood but then some people don't understand how important that is to me.

Cheers.

[Steely Dan]

Just watched an interview on the BBC with the Imam of the Mosque the Islamic butcher attended. According to him the violence had nothing at all to do with Islam, well that's a relief then. Seems to be tens of thousands of Muslim murderers all over the world waving Korans and shouting their praises to Allah that have nothing to do with Islam as well, how do they get 'radicalized' by something that has nothing to do with Allah, Mohammad and the book of hate and death?

That's quite a relief or the knee jerk Liberals would have to call for a ban on Mosques and Qurans just as they call for a ban on guns at every opportunity. Edited December 5, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Artisi]

Irrespective of laws, religion or whatever - - it's quiet obvious they were &lt;deleted&gt; nutters.

[SgtRock]

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. _ San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook had contact with people from at least two terrorist organizations overseas, including the al-Qaida-affiliated Nusra Front in Syria, a federal law enforcement official said Friday.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/san-bernardino-massacre-being-investigated-as-terrorism-fbi-says/ar-AAg2yv9?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=DELLDHP

[Johpa]

I know what an AR15 and an M16 and all the variants in between are.

Obviously you don't. An M-16 is a fully automatic ("machine gun") assault rifle and the AR-15 is only semi-automatic and is not an assault rifle.

Ignorant news writers who may have never seen a real gun and ignorant forum posters have a party pooling their ignorance.

Cheers.

Am I the only one here who does not see any assault rifle bearing a resemblance to an M-16? But I do see assault rifles and only the most retentive NRA numbskulls, and that includes most of the US Congress, would not consider these lightweight urban assault rifles (collapsible stocks, rails, foregrips, scopes) to be called anything other than an assault rifle despite the narrow legal definition of the term.

By the way, way back when I was issued the ancient M-16 (full length rigid stock, iron sights, etc), if the sargeant heard you fire on full auto you could be assured to be on fire watch that night.

[Harsh Jones]

Why make something so obvious, so difficult. The motive is islam.

Obvious to a jaidam person, perhaps. Not so obvious, whether you are pro-Muslim, pro-Israel, pro-America, or pro-whatever, if you have intelligence you would not jump to conclusions.

Going postal is still a viable option to consider. Mental illness is still a viable option to consider. Losing one's temper at repeated racial slurs from co-workers is still an option to consider....especially if there are jaidam rednecks in the workplace.

In California ? In a government work environment ? not a chance. And if you look at the victims, you will see that the place was staffed with various minorities.

And red neck is a racist slur for white people.

[Harsh Jones]

Irrespective of laws, religion or whatever - - it's quiet obvious they were <deleted> nutters.

How could religion be irrespective in this case ?

[Jingthing]

Irrespective of laws, religion or whatever - - it's quiet obvious they were <deleted> nutters.

How could religion be irrespective in this case ?

I agree. They weren't insane. They were obviously true believer ISLAMIST Jihadists on a mission. If Islamist Jihadist terrorism was a mental health issue, it could be much more easily addressed.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Jingthing

[Usernames]

Irrespective of laws, religion or whatever - - it's quiet obvious they were <deleted> nutters.

How could religion be irrespective in this case ?

I agree. They weren't insane. They were obviously true believer ISLAMIST Jihadists on a mission. If Islamist Jihadist terrorism was a mental health issue, it could be much more easily addressed.

It doesn't matter. Now that the MSM cannot escape the fact that this event was rooted in terrorism, it is being deleted from the news cycle. In a couple of days it will never have happened.

[Jingthing]

I don't agree. It's a huge news event because it's Daesh related but they were probably self motivated. Also the man was American born. It's a game changer actually.

[Usernames]

Just turn on the coverage. It isn't there. It's gone.

[Boon Mee]

There's an absolute truth here that seems to be ignored by our "Masters":

[SgtRock]

Boon Mee, on 06 Dec 2015 - 07:32, said:

There's an absolute truth here that seems to be ignored by our "Masters":

Could you send that to the chief cop in the UK.

At present they still prefer tasers.

Video shows the suspect being shot with a taser several times after the attack - which is being treated as a "terrorist incident".

http://news.sky.com/story/1600631/man-wielding-large-knife-held-after-tube-attack

[slerickson]

All these arguments are predicated on a belief in what you are told over the corporate news network. I don't get how people can trust the propaganda. About 2 weeks prior to Sandy Hook the Congress made it law that the government can propagandize it's own people. Of course they were already doing it. Remember Bush staying it was his job to "keep repeating the lie in order to catapult the propaganda. "

[Johpa]

There's an absolute truth here that seems to be ignored by our "Masters":

Yea, that was the idea behind Robert McNamara's focus on body counts. That erroneous idea was dispelled some 40 years ago. The only absolute truth is to pay no heed to anyone advocating an absolute truth.

[LarryBird]

It is also "possible" that Obama has lost the plot. How could this not be terrorism?

Why is it necessary to put this in a box? It could be a combination of workplace violence and a radicalized religious nut.

IF that would make you happy! Berkshire, are you from Western Mass? If so , that really would explain your posts.

[Fookhaht]

What more evidence do you people need??

On CNN last night:

[JDGRUEN]

Cause : a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.

Cause were : possession of 2 assault rifles:

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449202517.967452.jpg

Oh, so the mere possession of the rifles "caused" a mass shooting. Interesting concept. Nuts, but interesting.

I suppose that the shootings in Paris were "caused" by someone having guns.

Those aren't assault rifles. Assault rifles are fully automatic. Ask a navy Seal if he'd carry one of those guns on an assault mission. "No."

In California where this occurred, it is illegal to purchase a gun that holds more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Hardly an assault rifle. If the perps had magazines that held more than 10 rounds they were already illegal.

Only the law abiding obey laws, so it does little good to pass these laws that criminals don't obey.

The cause of the shootings was in the minds of the shooters. It's called a motive. The FBI has turned the focus of the investigation toward terrorism and there are many reasons for that listed above.

Weapons used in Paris originated from Zastava weapons manufacturer. They were imported clandestinely through the black market from Macedonia. Although the affected countries, Belgium and France, have reputable weapons manufacturers like FNC and Famas, these models are not available for public purchase.

The weapons used in San Bernardino are AR-15's, the Walmart version that you can find between the milk and the butter in every Walmart. The 30 or 100 rounds ammo magazines are available all over the US.

Wether the use of fully automatic and/or semi-automatic weapons should be legalised in the US is a debate that I'm not really interested in. Too many mass shootings and gun fire fatalities seems not to be decisive for the hard liners.

The real motive will be difficult to confirm. Let's not forget that the attackers were neutralised at 0,43 miles from the parking lot of the center/Christmas party. It took +4 hours to block the SUV after a road block ? Time line and double crime scenes are not consistent.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449209199.785481.jpg

100 shots per minute... that is a lot of trigger pulls in 60 seconds ... sounds like an automatic rifle to me ... where one trigger pull makes many shots ... Automatic rifles are not sold in the U.S. A...

[slerickson]

What more evidence do you people need??

On CNN last night: ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449367876.202546.jpg

You cannot believe what those freaks on CNN report. Especially those on the council for foreign relations. You talk like they are a credible source.

[Fookhaht]

What more evidence do you people need??

On CNN last night: ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449367876.202546.jpg

You cannot believe what those freaks on CNN report. Especially those on the council for foreign relations. You talk like they are a credible source.

OK, FROM THE BBC...

Or, Slerickson, would you rather I find something from the Fox News Network ("fair and balanced") to appease your opportunistic post?

Edited December 8, 2015 by Fookhaht

[slerickson]

What more evidence do you people need??

On CNN last night: ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449367876.202546.jpg

You cannot believe what those freaks on CNN report. Especially those on the council for foreign relations. You talk like they are a credible source.

OK, FROM THE BBC...

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1449538074.074794.jpg

Or, Slerickson, would you rather I find something from the Fox News Network ("fair and balanced") to appease your opportunistic post?

CNN, acronym for the Corporate News Network. So if it's on TV, aka the boob tube, then it is nothing more than propaganda. Sure each of the crap networks have a slightly different point of view but it's all the same nonsense. If you look at the raw footage on video then you can see through the allusion they are successfully creating. They've been doing it for decades but it's more prevalent now.