How to tell if you were sold a used/refurbished laptop?

[fanof3d]

I just bought an Asus laptop from Sinthanee for my wife. Wasn't expensive, maybe 13,000 but noticed a lot of odd things after starting it up and before I take it back and start asking questions, I wanted to get feedback from anyone else who may have recently purchased a laptop in los.

1. The clock was set for 2012.
2. Programs had been installed from 2009 to 2015.

3. Loaded Windows 7 Ultimate with no genuine Windows disk included
4. I did a cmd systeminfo | find /i "install date" and it spit back Jan 1. 2009

5. Didn't go through normal windows setup that you go through when you purchase a brand new laptop or even when you wipe your HD clean

6. A bunch of programs that don't normally come with a new laptop like ccleaner, vlc media player, photoshop, etc.
7. There is 1TB of HD space but it's odd. Only 100GB is under the c drive. Then you have 400GB in 2 other particions which makes no sense as programs are typically installed at the root drive C:

As I mentioned the wife only uses MS Word and PP so it's really not a big issue, however my main concerns are that 1. The hard-drive is really old which could cause issues and 2. If it is refurbished, we should've

been told upfront. Any thoughts or past experience would be great.

Thanks in advance.

[guzzi850m2]

It sure looks like something is wrong but I am no expert.

To me it looks like the hard drive is used and as you mention, 100gb under the C partition is not much in 2015, 250gb min I would say.

Lets wait and see what more knowledgeable people have to say but I say; take it back and demand a new lap top, but it sounds to me that this shop is not very trustworthy so better get your money back and shop somewhere else.

[Tywais]

Crystal Disk Info - http://www.windowstechupdates.com/how-to-check-hard-drive-real-age/

[Lannig]

Definitely not a machine with an original disk master from Asus. First, no Asus notebook would ever come with Windows Ultimate preintalled. I don't even think this variant is available as an OEM install. Most likely a cracked version as well. The cost of the Windows Ultimate license would make your notebook way too expensive.

Most likely, they've ghosted an image dating from 2009 with various (probably cracked) pieces of software preinstalled.

As for the machine itself, it may be new or not. Some new notebooks are sold in Thailand without a Windows license, and therefore no O/S installed (or some dummy FreeDOS / Linux installed). I assume this can be done there because one gets to see them in large department stores like Lotus.

So one possibility is that this was a new, Windows-less machine, "upgraded" with this cracked image.

As for the unusual partitioning, well, it's seldom seen in OEM installs. I remember HP doing some preinstalls with a disk split into 2 partitions C: and D: (I'm not speaking of the recovery partition here, it's usually hidden). I like having two partitions, it makes the system a bit more robust in case of disk corruption / bad blocks / infection. But it's really a matter of personal taste and two more partitions seem like overkill to me.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Lannig

[bino]

For that price, the laptop was likely sold with no operating system- DOS only. This is common here, where installing cracked or counterfeit software is the norm. As you noticed, you did not get any original / genuine Windows CD with the computer. Furthermore, Win 7 is obsolete and if the computer was sold with a genuine operating system it would be Win 8.1 or 10.

The shop has likely pre-loaded all of the operating system and non-standard software using Ghost or some other disk cloning system. The master that they cloned from could have been compiled since 2009 when Win 7 was the standard.

Edit to add.... Lannig posted while I was typing. Damn. and yes- Thai people have a very weird preoccupation with partitions. I've noticed this a lot.

Edited December 7, 2015 by bino

[Lannig]

Since someone has posted after me I take the opportunity to add something without double-posting: besides Tywais' useful suggestion above, you may also want to try one of these battery utilities that willl tell you how many charge cycles the battery has been through.

Of course, both the hard disk and the battery might have been replaced.

A careful look at the keyboard might be a hint too. Look for signs of wear, "polish" on key tops.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Lannig

[fanof3d]

Since someone has posted after me I take the opportunity to add something without double-posting: besides Tywais' useful suggestion above, you may also want to try one of these battery utilities that willl tell you how many charge cycles the battery has been through.

Of course, both the hard disk and the battery might have been replaced.

A careful look at the keyboard might be a hint too. Look for signs of wear, "polish" on key tops.

Will do. Thanks for the advice. The machine itself was in what looked to be the original box, no sign up wear on any of the keys but beyond what I just mentioned, another red flag was that Windows Update was disabled. For any ginuine windows install, it's imperative to get updates or at least the important ones and I can't upgrade to Win 8/10 without a genuine install. I tried to "activate windows" to see if I would get a success message but the program wouldn't load. I even tried going under control panel and system and there isn't a genuine MS Windows software badge there. In fact the entire "Windows" activation section is missing. Restore was turned off also but I created a restore point. I think at this point, I'll either ask for a genuine copy of Win8 or try and get a refund. I'm sure they'll just say no but I guess we'll see. Definitely shouldn't be legal for any corporate firm to install ghost copies of windows on "new" PC's and Laptaps sold without it being advertised as such. Pretty disappointed in that but I guess I wasn't even thinking about that possiblility. Live 'n learn in the good ol, LOS. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[Lannig]

Well, absolutely no doubt that you have a cracked version of Windows.

And a poor one too... the well-cracked ones allow you to use Windows Update

Let us know how it goes. I think that they'll tell you that it's a Windows-less product and that they've done this install as a complimentary service to you.

Heck, I can remember being offered this kind of free bonus while I was just watching a desktop sold with the once famous "thaified Linux" in a Big C supermarket, out of curiosity.

[Pib]

Not familiar with Sinthanee as to if that is a store or online site, but it sure appears you have a laptop that has been loaded with non-genuine/evaluation OS and software. Common for stores/online sites in Thailand, and many other countries, to sell computers with no OS/software installed with the exception of may FreeDOS or Linux OS installed. They sell this way since it lowers the cost of the computer, some people don't want to pay extra for a computer to come with Windows when they plan to put Linux on it instead, and in some countries I guess laws drive the manufacturers to offer computers with no OS installed. After buying the computer they take it to a nearby computer shop and get it loaded up with an OS/software for a few hundred baht. And I think with an evaluation/unactivated copy of Windows that has been loaded (which is legal to do), after 30 days it will no longer update.

Using the systeminfo command to determine the OS install date will just reflect the date of OS install...like my primary laptop is now over two years old (it originally sold with on a free Linux installed...I bought and installed Win 8.1 on it) but when I upgraded from Win 8.1 to Win 10 on 29 Jul 15 it changed the install date to 29 Jul 15...and when Win 10 upgrade from version 10240 to version 10586 (a.k.a., November Upgrade, Threshold, -1511, etc) I now have a 17 Nov 15 install date for Win 10.

With the Sinthanee probably just loading an image to your drive, systeminfo will just reflect info based on that system image (i.e., some earlier date(s))...not the date they installed the image but whatever date and associated info the image had when it was originally created to be used to load up other computers. Loading a "image" today would not reset the install date to today...it would just set it to whatever date that was record in that image, but if you actually did an install of Windows today then it would reset the install date to today. Systeminfo is not pulling the OS install date from any hardware; it's being pulled from files within Windows.

The computer itself or the box it came in should have somewhere the date of manufacturer stamps/labels. Maybe even going to the Asus website to register the computer/serial number or calling them will tell you the date of manufacturer.

But my guess you are getting concerned the computer is not new because of the non-genuine software image causing all of these old dates. And I bet if you look at the original online or in store advertisement it probably does "not" say it comes with Windows....probably says No OS, DOS, Linux or maybe nothing which means it does not come with any OS/software. A person would have to add that on their own unless the vender just happens load up stuff free of charge...little to no concern for IP protection in Thailand.

[Chicog]

Install BatteryBar and see how worn out the battery is.

[crabdog]

If for whatever reason you decide to keep the machine I would suggest you do a fresh install of Windows. Disabling updates is the 'idiots' way of loading pirated operating system and besides you probably don't need / want half the other crap that they installed on it.

I'd recommend finding out if the hard drive is in fact new and if so do a fresh install. If the hard drive is not new take that notebook back and demand a refund or an SSD in exchange for the old drive. Also recommend that in the future you purchase from a recognized store ie JIB, Banana IT, Advice computer etc.

[fanof3d]

Install BatteryBar and see how worn out the battery is.

Seems to be a new batter. Here is the screener attached. Don't know if 99.1% is norm but the wear is only .05

[fanof3d]

If for whatever reason you decide to keep the machine I would suggest you do a fresh install of Windows. Disabling updates is the 'idiots' way of loading pirated operating system and besides you probably don't need / want half the other crap that they installed on it.

I'd recommend finding out if the hard drive is in fact new and if so do a fresh install. If the hard drive is not new take that notebook back and demand a refund or an SSD in exchange for the old drive. Also recommend that in the future you purchase from a recognized store ie JIB, Banana IT, Advice computer etc.

Thanks for your comment. How do I check to see if the hard-drive is new? Whoever partioned it didn't do it correctly. The only left 100GB for the C: drive where programs are actually installed and 800GB on 2 other partions. My wife called them today and they said they would install Win 8 at no charge but I'll believe that when I see it. If they have to reformat the drive to install, I'll have him setup the HD correctly as well.

For this region, we don't have the stores you mentioned. The store is a Mega Store, not a mom/pop shop or somehwere you'd feel uncomfortable shopping. They sell everything here from Kitchen items, Big Screens, Computers, Motorbikes and outdoor Water pumps. Very nice showroom floor, etc. In the states or even the u.k., would be like buying from Best Buy but again like others have mentioned, they can get away with loading anything onto a new cpu here. I'll update everyone after I take it back to the store tomorrow.

[Don Mega]

what model is the machine.

[Pib]

If you can easily access the hard drive maybe through easy access panels on the laptop (some have such panels), the manufacturer date should be on the drive's label. Or, if being able to determine the drives S/N through a program that reads the serial number or just getting the serial number off the drive's label, you should then be able to go to the website of the drive manufacturer (i.e., Seagate, WD, etc) to determine it's manufacture date.

Or download one of the SMART freeware programs which supposed can read info regarding your drive...the drive's manufacture data may be contained in the SMART data. I don't have any recommendation for what freeware program to use...some googling should lead you to several.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Pib

[2fishin2]

If you want to know if you have a new or used computer, ask dr G about the computer model number. That will tell you new or old right away

[KhunBENQ]

Welcome to the world of Thai IT shops

Absolutely "normal".

Post #4 describes it well.

Date: just set it up correctly in the BIOS and after Windows startup install automatic timesync from the internet.

There is no reason to complain about the partitioning (200, 400, 400).

I NEVER do installations with only one partition, never store my relevant data on the first (C:) partition but on a second data partition.

One of the silly concepts of Windows is that this method is not adequately supported, instead all these "Libraries", "My Documents" etc. on the C: partition.

In case of an OS failure you have a hard time.

Not much has changed in this area since the 80's

The two partitions (D:, E:) are a good location for your valuable files (documents, pictures, movies etc.).

Q: from your description a full 100 GB is missing? (100, 400, 400)

2009 is the year when Windows 7 was released.

Guess what I see, when I "dir" the old legacy autoexec.bat and config.sys on my PC (completely reinstalled some two months ago) ?

11.06.2009 04:42 24 autoexec.bat
11.06.2009 04:42 10 config.sys

I bet that on EVERY PC with Windows 7 installed you will see some 2009 files?

Edited December 8, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

One indicator for the "age" of the device is the date of the BIOS version.

This and other infos are displayed by:

msinfo32

Click the "Start" button and enter "msinfo32", hit the <ENTER> key.

Check the line with the "BIOS Version/Date".

My age old PC (that I currently use) shows the whole truth:

BIOS Version/Date Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG, 7/24/2007

Edited December 8, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[Pib]

The "systeminfo" will give the same BIOS info in Win 10...not sure about earlier Windows versions. But if a person looked at my BIOS date he would see a 24 Oct 14 date although I bought the computer new in Nov 13. I check my computer manufacturer website frequently for updates on my model like BIOS, drivers, etc...and they have released one BIOS update which occurred Oct 14 and which I installed/flashed.

But yea, if a person has not done any BIOS update if available the BIOS date would be an indicator of the approx date of the computer's manufacturer although in my computer's case it would have been about a year off since my model came out in early to mid 2013, I bought in Nov 13, but my BIOS date now shows Oct 14 since I updated it.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Pib

[ravip]

Just go here >>> http://www.asus.com/support/

Enter the requested information and check the warranty status.

You should be able to get the manufactured year of the PC.

Edit

If the machine is brand new, installing a Genuine version of Windows is a minor issue and not worth loosing any sleep over it.

And maybe you could get your free Windows 10!

Edited December 8, 2015 by ravip

[Tywais]

If you can easily access the hard drive maybe through easy access panels on the laptop (some have such panels), the manufacturer date should be on the drive's label. Or, if being able to determine the drives S/N through a program that reads the serial number or just getting the serial number off the drive's label, you should then be able to go to the website of the drive manufacturer (i.e., Seagate, WD, etc) to determine it's manufacture date.

Or download one of the SMART freeware programs which supposed can read info regarding your drive...the drive's manufacture data may be contained in the SMART data. I don't have any recommendation for what freeware program to use...some googling should lead you to several.

I did point out Crystal Disk Info earlier in this topic. http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html This is what it shows on my computer. Just use the portable version, don't need to do an install.

[bino]

If they acquiesced so easily to installing Windows 8, and for free, it is probably going to be a bogus copy as well.

[Pib]

Yea, my Samsung SSD SMART data using Samsung Magician software which displays SMART data as one of its features does not show a manufacturer date either. Using a power count would only be a good estimate if you only turn you computer on once a day. I've loss count of the number of times I've turned my computer off during certain days to get a complete shutdown when troubleshooting some computer issue or just wanting to turn it off when I leave the house and don't know when I will be back that day. My power on count for my hard drive (I bought new) is 3069 equates to 8.4 years assuming I only turned the computer on once per day....however, I've only owned the drive for around 1.5 years....remember bought brand new and from the U.S.

A lot will depend on whether the drive manufacturer even programs drive manufacture date in the BIOS settings/programming or just on the label slapped on it at the end of the manufacturing line. But I bet most just track the manufacture date by serial number in a database. The only sure way is to look at the label on the drive...I'm pretty sure every label I've looked at over many years of drives I've owned included the manufacturer date on the label.

But yea, if the drive is new the SMART data would show a really low power-on count...would depend on how many power-on's the manufacturer did during manufacture/releasing it out the door...and how many times the computer manufacturer/vendor turned it off and on before sale, to preload some software, etc.

Edit: Now even when writing above and saying I had loss count the number of times I had turned my computer off and on during the day in troubleshooting some issues or just leaving the house and not wanting to leave the computer on, I thought a power on count of 3069 over approx 1.5 years sounded very high. So I just now checked to see if putting the computer in sleep mode affected power-on count and it did. Sleep or hibernate mode racks up a power-on count. So, that makes the power-on count very unreliable to estimate age of a drive since I think most of us have our computers set to go to sleep or hibernate when powered on and not in use.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Pib

[fanof3d]

what model is the machine.

Asus X554L

[fanof3d]

Just go here >>> http://www.asus.com/support/

Enter the requested information and check the warranty status.

You should be able to get the manufactured year of the PC.

Edit

If the machine is brand new, installing a Genuine version of Windows is a minor issue and not worth loosing any sleep over it.

And maybe you could get your free Windows 10!

What's odd is that ON the machine, there is a sticker saying that the model # X554L. When I plug that into the support site, nothing comes up.

Now when I look at the sytem information, the system model# says X555LI. When I type that in, it comes up but didn't see anyway to search for warranty status.

[crabdog]

If they acquiesced so easily to installing Windows 8, and for free, it is probably going to be a bogus copy as well.

Exactly this ^

There's no way in the world they're going to give you a 3000+ baht OS with no charge and besides that, they will most likely install the same crapware as the previous setup unless you specifically ask them not to. Either buy a legit copy of Windows or accept having a bogus one with possible blocked updates (unless you can install it yourself).

Also agree with the other poster above who said that the current partitioning is fine. The C: drive should be used primarily for Windows and other insignificant installs (VLC, anti-virus, Chrome etc) while other programs / data / games should be installed / saved onto another partition. In the event that Windows has a major failure your data will remain safe on a separate partition.

[fanof3d]

Understood gents. Maybe I won't even bother with having them mess with it then. Just sucks having an old OS with so many viruses and crap out there. I'll load a decent firewall and AV program I guess. Tried to get the free update from Windows but as you guessed it can't get any updates without a genuine copy which I'm assuming is why it was turned off to begin with.

Thanks guys for all your input.

[bino]

There should be more to the model number of the laptop, that will identify its configuration. Asus X554 comes in many variants: Core i3, core i5, etc. The complete model product number will also identify if the computer was sold with or without an operating system.

Have a look on the box for the complete product model number it will be on the sticker with the barcodes. It will look something like this:

X554LJ-XX807D

If you search Lazada for X554 there are many variants. The one above is here:

http://www.lazada.co.th/asus-x554lj-xx807d-corei5-5200u4g-ddr3l500g-54-rpmgt920-1gdos-black-2569138.html

You can see in the specs that this variant is sold with DOS operating system.

[fanof3d]

There should be more to the model number of the laptop, that will identify its configuration. Asus X554 comes in many variants: Core i3, core i5, etc. The complete model product number will also identify if the computer was sold with or without an operating system.

Have a look on the box for the complete product model number it will be on the sticker with the barcodes. It will look something like this:

X554LJ-XX807D

If you search Lazada for X554 there are many variants. The one above is here:

http://www.lazada.co.th/asus-x554lj-xx807d-corei5-5200u4g-ddr3l500g-54-rpmgt920-1gdos-black-2569138.html

You can see in the specs that this variant is sold with DOS operating system.

Thanks Bino, I actually found it. http://www.pantipmarket.com/items/15824179 that is the full model # but so far 3 other sites I've viewed it on don't even mention an OS. I think this was made specifically for LOS to come without an OS. That's my guess anyway. Why wouldn't they tell me. It's so odd because sales people NEVER try to upsell. It's like they don't even care. I'm sure they don't work on commission but hell, simple sales philosophy should say that if anyone looks at the laptop without an OS, you sell them one, lol. I probably would've purchased either an OS or upgraded the laptop. Lesson learned. Thanks again.

[MonkeyLoo]

Yes , obviously a cloned OS. Cloned from a machine that had other programs also.

I bought one too in the same state but I installed Linux anyway. Its open source and works great.