UK exit from European Union on a knife edge, poll shows

[SheungWan]

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

Neither of them are elected. Civil service appointments are 'er, appointed.

[lostboy]

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

The principle of Ministerial Responsibility is part of the Westminster tradition. The EU is a multilateral organisation governed by various treaties and including many countries whose legal and administrative systems are not based on Common Law. Why would you expect the EU governance structure to mimic the UK governance structure. You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. The EU Parliament has supervisory responsibility for EU Institutions including dismissal power over Commissioners.

If you are at all interested and not just trying to score points, the Treaties that provide the supervisory powers of the EU Parliament are available here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

Perhaps if the UK took the EU Parliament seriously and didn't send disruptive, opportunistic failed financiers like Farage and his gang of bigots to represent the UK, then UK citizens might have a stronger voice in shaping the institutions and policies of the EU. But I guess it is easier to sit outside the tent and throw stones rather than doing the hard work.

[MartinL]

... You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. hard work.

I seem to remember the French, Spanish, Portuguese and, more recently, Germans also imposing their will on others, often far more harshly than the British did.

Maybe it's time for them, too, to accept that they don't control everything and work as proper treaty partners rather than saying "No" to everything Britain proposes.

[nontabury]

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

The principle of Ministerial Responsibility is part of the Westminster tradition. The EU is a multilateral organisation governed by various treaties and including many countries whose legal and administrative systems are not based on Common Law. Why would you expect the EU governance structure to mimic the UK governance structure. You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. The EU Parliament has supervisory responsibility for EU Institutions including dismissal power over Commissioners.

If you are at all interested and not just trying to score points, the Treaties that provide the supervisory powers of the EU Parliament are available here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

Perhaps if the UK took the EU Parliament seriously and didn't send disruptive, opportunistic failed financiers like Farage and his gang of bigots to represent the UK, then UK citizens might have a stronger voice in shaping the institutions and policies of the EU. But I guess it is easier to sit outside the tent and throw stones rather than doing the hard work.

We don't take the EU so called parliament serious because1/ it is not democratic.2/ The British people never agreed to what the EU has now become.

It would seem from reading through this thread,and a similar one that is also running, that the majority of non Brits are pro EU. This cannot be said of the majority of Brits, at least those who have bothered to post. I think it's fair to say most Brits on Thai visa would prefer to get out as soon as possible, but will that translate to the British electorate I don't know. I certainly hope so, though I suspect the powers that be will use every underhand method to do another 1975. Edited December 23, 2015 by Scott

[brewsterbudgen]

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

The principle of Ministerial Responsibility is part of the Westminster tradition. The EU is a multilateral organisation governed by various treaties and including many countries whose legal and administrative systems are not based on Common Law. Why would you expect the EU governance structure to mimic the UK governance structure. You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. The EU Parliament has supervisory responsibility for EU Institutions including dismissal power over Commissioners.

If you are at all interested and not just trying to score points, the Treaties that provide the supervisory powers of the EU Parliament are available here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

Perhaps if the UK took the EU Parliament seriously and didn't send disruptive, opportunistic failed financiers like Farage and his gang of bigots to represent the UK, then UK citizens might have a stronger voice in shaping the institutions and policies of the EU. But I guess it is easier to sit outside the tent and throw stones rather than doing the hard work.

We don't take the EU so called parliament serious because1/ it is not democratic.2/ The British people never agreed to what the EU has now become.

It would seem from reading through this thread,and a similar one that is also running, that the majority of non Brits are pro EU. This cannot be said of the majority of Brits, at least those who have bothered to post. I think it's fair to say most Brits on Thai visa would prefer to get out as soon as possible, but will that translate to the British electorate I don't know. I certainly hope so, though I suspect the powers that be will use every underhand method to do another 1975.

The European Parliament is democratically elected. European Commisioners are appointed by democratically elected Heads of national Governments.

[lostboy]

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

The principle of Ministerial Responsibility is part of the Westminster tradition. The EU is a multilateral organisation governed by various treaties and including many countries whose legal and administrative systems are not based on Common Law. Why would you expect the EU governance structure to mimic the UK governance structure. You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. The EU Parliament has supervisory responsibility for EU Institutions including dismissal power over Commissioners.

If you are at all interested and not just trying to score points, the Treaties that provide the supervisory powers of the EU Parliament are available here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

Perhaps if the UK took the EU Parliament seriously and didn't send disruptive, opportunistic failed financiers like Farage and his gang of bigots to represent the UK, then UK citizens might have a stronger voice in shaping the institutions and policies of the EU. But I guess it is easier to sit outside the tent and throw stones rather than doing the hard work.

We don't take the EU so called parliament serious because1/ it is not democratic.2/ The British people never agreed to what the EU has now become.

It would seem from reading through this thread,and a similar one that is also running, that the majority of non Brits are pro EU. This cannot be said of the majority of Brits, at least those who have bothered to post. I think it's fair to say most Brits on Thai visa would prefer to get out as soon as possible, but will that translate to the British electorate I don't know. I certainly hope so, though I suspect the powers that be will use every underhand method to do another 1975.

Since facts don't seem to matter to the dedicated UKipper, there is no point discussing the checks and balances of the EU Parliamentary system. Furthermore, you use terms like 'most British' with abandon. It might be better to seek out information from polls and surveys to inform your opinions. We went through all this before the British elections earlier this year. A mountain of insults were hurled by the UKippers against all and sundry. Your observation that most Brits on TVF favour exit says more about the type of Brit who is in Thailand and who posts on TVF than anything else.

I certainly support the idea of the EU. I would love to see informed debate about its development including the costs and benefits of participation by individual countries. Nobody presents anything close to coherent arguments of this type. Mostly it is bigoted and racist rubbish pushed by the little englander types. Not to be taken seriously.

[nontabury]

In which case the little englanders are in for a big surprise when they discover the continentals can still come and go as they please. Why bother with a referendum?

Being a member of the EEA means you get all the rules that come with being in the common market without any ability to have a seat at the table to contribute to them. An even worse straight jacket than you think you are in now.

Immigration is not the only issue, there are also the concerns about democracy, or rather the lack ot it, that comes with being a member of the EU.

The executive arm of the EU (The Commission) is not voted in by the people, it is not accountable to the people, and it cannot be voted out by the people. The UK spends a lot of time going around the world bombing countries to 'bring them democracy'. It would be nice if it could bring democracy to itself.

In any case, It is unlikely that the UK would leave the EU and remain in the EEA.

As a side note, is it really necessary to continue with the puerile name calling? Why not just call people who you disagree with smelly poo heads?

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

The principle of Ministerial Responsibility is part of the Westminster tradition. The EU is a multilateral organisation governed by various treaties and including many countries whose legal and administrative systems are not based on Common Law. Why would you expect the EU governance structure to mimic the UK governance structure. You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. The EU Parliament has supervisory responsibility for EU Institutions including dismissal power over Commissioners.

If you are at all interested and not just trying to score points, the Treaties that provide the supervisory powers of the EU Parliament are available here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

Perhaps if the UK took the EU Parliament seriously and didn't send disruptive, opportunistic failed financiers like Farage and his gang of bigots to represent the UK, then UK citizens might have a stronger voice in shaping the institutions and policies of the EU. But I guess it is easier to sit outside the tent and throw stones rather than doing the hard work.

We don't take the EU so called parliament serious because1/ it is not democratic.2/ The British people never agreed to what the EU has now become.

It would seem from reading through this thread,and a similar one that is also running, that the majority of non Brits are pro EU. This cannot be said of the majority of Brits, at least those who have bothered to post. I think it's fair to say most Brits on Thai visa would prefer to get out as soon as possible, but will that translate to the British electorate I don't know. I certainly hope so, though I suspect the powers that be will use every underhand method to do another 1975.

Since facts don't seem to matter to the dedicated UKipper, there is no point discussing the checks and balances of the EU Parliamentary system. Furthermore, you use terms like 'most British' with abandon. It might be better to seek out information from polls and surveys to inform your opinions. We went through all this before the British elections earlier this year. A mountain of insults were hurled by the UKippers against all and sundry. Your observation that most Brits on TVF favour exit says more about the type of Brit who is in Thailand and who posts on TVF than anything else.

I certainly support the idea of the EU. I would love to see informed debate about its development including the costs and benefits of participation by individual countries. Nobody presents anything close to coherent arguments of this type. Mostly it is bigoted and racist rubbish pushed by the little englander types. Not to be taken seriously.

A mountain of insults. Bigoted and racist rubbish by little englander.
Then you go on to insult those Brits who post on TVF.
When you make such remarks I think it sums you up.

I agree Brits here on TVF do not constitute the average UK voter, that's why it's best to look at polls and surveys carried out in the UK, if you were to do so, you will notice that the more informed the people become, the more they express a desire to leave this organisation. The main opinion polls, recorded a few months back, that approx 40% of the population backed the get out option, that figure is now 55%. So now you can go ahead and insult those people.

[lostboy]

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

The principle of Ministerial Responsibility is part of the Westminster tradition. The EU is a multilateral organisation governed by various treaties and including many countries whose legal and administrative systems are not based on Common Law. Why would you expect the EU governance structure to mimic the UK governance structure. You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. The EU Parliament has supervisory responsibility for EU Institutions including dismissal power over Commissioners.

If you are at all interested and not just trying to score points, the Treaties that provide the supervisory powers of the EU Parliament are available here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

Perhaps if the UK took the EU Parliament seriously and didn't send disruptive, opportunistic failed financiers like Farage and his gang of bigots to represent the UK, then UK citizens might have a stronger voice in shaping the institutions and policies of the EU. But I guess it is easier to sit outside the tent and throw stones rather than doing the hard work.

We don't take the EU so called parliament serious because1/ it is not democratic.2/ The British people never agreed to what the EU has now become.

It would seem from reading through this thread,and a similar one that is also running, that the majority of non Brits are pro EU. This cannot be said of the majority of Brits, at least those who have bothered to post. I think it's fair to say most Brits on Thai visa would prefer to get out as soon as possible, but will that translate to the British electorate I don't know. I certainly hope so, though I suspect the powers that be will use every underhand method to do another 1975.

Since facts don't seem to matter to the dedicated UKipper, there is no point discussing the checks and balances of the EU Parliamentary system. Furthermore, you use terms like 'most British' with abandon. It might be better to seek out information from polls and surveys to inform your opinions. We went through all this before the British elections earlier this year. A mountain of insults were hurled by the UKippers against all and sundry. Your observation that most Brits on TVF favour exit says more about the type of Brit who is in Thailand and who posts on TVF than anything else.

I certainly support the idea of the EU. I would love to see informed debate about its development including the costs and benefits of participation by individual countries. Nobody presents anything close to coherent arguments of this type. Mostly it is bigoted and racist rubbish pushed by the little englander types. Not to be taken seriously.

A mountain of insults. Bigoted and racist rubbish by little englander.

Then you go on to insult those Brits who post on TVF.

When you make such remarks I think it sums you up.

I agree Brits here on TVF do not constitute the average UK voter, that's why it's best to look at polls and surveys carried out in the UK, if you were to do so, you will notice that the more informed the people become, the more they express a desire to leave this organisation. The main opinion polls, recorded a few months back, that approx 40% of the population backed the get out option, that figure is now 55%. So now you can go ahead and insult those people.

Thank you for permission to insult the Brits. I don't really need it. You are extraordinarily thin-skinned if you take umbrage at my previous post. I knowingly and purposefully insult the UKippers. If you align with them, then I think you should be prepared for the accusations of racism and bigotry. My heritage is the same as yours. I know very well the origins of my own racism that I inherited from the Mother Country and have tried hard all my life to over come it. So a bit less of the preciousness I think.

Do I insult the Brits who post on TVF? I make an observation, that the posts of many of the Brits seem to point to a certain demographic. I make no inference beyond that. If you choose to view this as an insult then that is your issue. The whole 'reveals more about you' or 'sums you up' tropes are boring. Little jabs. What they now call 'micro-aggression'. I make no apology for disparaging UKippers or others whose comprehension of complex, important issues is tainted by ideological and political agitprop.

I do not believe that anyone is in a position to make a claim that most Brits want to exit the EU. The polls seem to be evenly divided. Again, very little informed discussion, just the usual ideological rants from both sides. It will be the Scottish Referendum all over again. At least we will have plenty of opportunities to get in some jabs at the more intellectually closed anti-EU boosters.

Edited December 22, 2015 by lostboy

[nontabury]

UK voters have no say in executive appointments in the British civil service. Why do you then complain about being excluded from executive appointments in the EU equivalent?

The British civil servants are answerable to their elected political masters, whereas the EU Bureaucrats are non elected and are answerable to whom?

The principle of Ministerial Responsibility is part of the Westminster tradition. The EU is a multilateral organisation governed by various treaties and including many countries whose legal and administrative systems are not based on Common Law. Why would you expect the EU governance structure to mimic the UK governance structure. You lot had a few centuries of imposing your system on others. Now it is time for you to stop thinking you control everything and work as a proper treaty partner. The EU Parliament has supervisory responsibility for EU Institutions including dismissal power over Commissioners.

If you are at all interested and not just trying to score points, the Treaties that provide the supervisory powers of the EU Parliament are available here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

Perhaps if the UK took the EU Parliament seriously and didn't send disruptive, opportunistic failed financiers like Farage and his gang of bigots to represent the UK, then UK citizens might have a stronger voice in shaping the institutions and policies of the EU. But I guess it is easier to sit outside the tent and throw stones rather than doing the hard work.

We don't take the EU so called parliament serious because1/ it is not democratic.2/ The British people never agreed to what the EU has now become.

It would seem from reading through this thread,and a similar one that is also running, that the majority of non Brits are pro EU. This cannot be said of the majority of Brits, at least those who have bothered to post. I think it's fair to say most Brits on Thai visa would prefer to get out as soon as possible, but will that translate to the British electorate I don't know. I certainly hope so, though I suspect the powers that be will use every underhand method to do another 1975.

Since facts don't seem to matter to the dedicated UKipper, there is no point discussing the checks and balances of the EU Parliamentary system. Furthermore, you use terms like 'most British' with abandon. It might be better to seek out information from polls and surveys to inform your opinions. We went through all this before the British elections earlier this year. A mountain of insults were hurled by the UKippers against all and sundry. Your observation that most Brits on TVF favour exit says more about the type of Brit who is in Thailand and who posts on TVF than anything else.

I certainly support the idea of the EU. I would love to see informed debate about its development including the costs and benefits of participation by individual countries. Nobody presents anything close to coherent arguments of this type. Mostly it is bigoted and racist rubbish pushed by the little englander types. Not to be taken seriously.[/

Do I insult the Brits who post on TVF? I make an observation, that the posts of many of the Brits seem to point to a certain demographic. I make no inference beyond that. If you choose to view this as an insult then that is your issue. The whole 'reveals more about you' or 'sums you up' tropes are boring. Little jabs. What they now call 'micro-aggression'. I make no apology for disparaging UKippers or others whose comprehension of

I do not believe that anyone is in a position to make a claim that most Brits want to exit the EU. The polls seem to be evenly divided. Again, very little informed discussion, just the usual ideological rants from both sides. It will be the Scottish Referendum all over again. At least we will have plenty of opportunities to get in some jabs at the more intellectually closed anti-EU boosters.

I have taken the time to read a number of your inputs to The TVF, not just on this subject but also on threads completely unrelated. One thing that comes over is that what ever subject you are discussing and you disagree with another persons point of view, you usually resort to name calling,e.g Bigot racialist etc, I think that in itself says a great deal about you.

You say that your heritage is the same as mine, yet you fail to say if you are in fact British ( perhaps you left the UK as a young boy) apologies if I am wrong, but I come to this conclusion as you certainly do not seem to have any idea as to the feelings of the vast majority of the U.K. Population.

[RuamRudy]

With England's GNP as it is they need to stay in the EU.Don't forget that Scotland could one day still leave your kingdom.Of course you might want to petition The USA to be the 51st state..You would have to pay a sum to be negotiated later.Oh yes we don;t want any part of Ireland period.

FYI ENGLAND'S GDP is one of the largest in the EU (it is huge and will be bigger out) and it is hoped by the majority of the U.K. that the jocks leave as they take out way more than they put in. As far as the UK and GDP is concerned, England generates the lions share and then some. The 'Scottish' oil, of which part is in English waters, accounts for something like 1% of GDP. Squat! And then you have the jocks with their hand out. The oil is not worth it and neither is Scotland. 55% of jocks who voted to stay in UK know this, but you don't right. For the cheap seats, the EU needs the UK more than the other way around which is why the leaders of other nations jump whenever exit is mentioned. It's got eff all to do with empire days ad nauseum. And as I say, yanks don't have a say. As to joining your <deleted> up nation I'd rather be with the Chinese; at least they have some brains and self respect.

Sorry to bring some reality to your myopic rant, but you are simply wrong in your assertion about Scottish contribution to the UK. This is from that wonderful arbiter of truth and objectivism, the BBC:

Similarly, that oil you claim to be in English waters - the result of Blair gerrymandering in the fag end of his tenure, but we will resolve that iniquity when the time comes.

But, hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your Little Engerlund rant. It is actually amusing.

Are these figures worked out from the SNP's estimate of 100$ a barrel of oil or today's figure of 35$

As for Tony WMD Blair you forgot to mention he is Scottish the same as Gordon Bigot Brown.

The BBC article I lifted the graphic from was produced in 2013 so I assume it is using the higher oil price, but the second value ignores all O&G contributions completely, so the reality is somewhere between the two, in effect showing that Scotland very much supports itself within the union, despite having a lower disposable income per head.

Of course (and I am sure you know this very well), it was not an SNP estimate of oil price, but a global expectation of continued high prices. Oil price forecasts are determined by Brent futures, and on the cusp of the price drop in mid 2014, Brent futures were still showing a plateau. I.e. nobody predicted the drop.

I am not sure why Tony Blair's origins are important, although I know very well that you have a major issue with it. The fact remains that his government has annexed a large part of Scottish waters for the English for no discernible reason other than a naked land grab. When the time comes, we will address this appropriately.

Edited December 23, 2015 by RuamRudy

[lostboy]

I have taken the time to read a number of your inputs to The TVF, not just on this subject but also on threads completely unrelated. One thing that comes over is that what ever subject you are discussing and you disagree with another persons point of view, you usually resort to name calling,e.g Bigot racialist etc, I think that in itself says a great deal about you.

You say that your heritage is the same as mine, yet you fail to say if you are in fact British ( perhaps you left the UK as a young boy) apologies if I am wrong, but I come to this conclusion as you certainly do not seem to have any idea as to the feelings of the vast majority of the U.K. Population.

I have a fan! Why thank you. Really. Since your last few posts have been almost entirely about me, I have taken the liberty to delete the previous posts. Some glitch on your computer had messed up the quotes and it was annoying me. Since the subject of me is the one about which I am most knowledgeable, I am more than happy to engage in this little admiration society that you have begun. Although I do think that we will get shut down quite soon.

Firstly let me say that I have never, in my life, used the word racialist. Using this word signifies certain information about nationality, age, education and other things. I would not like to be mistaken for a person who uses the word racialist.

I would then like to point out, since you have indicated that you have read a number of my posts, that you will have noticed that I enjoy pricking the pompous and haranguing the hypocritical. Sorry if you are not pleased about being categorised as such but while you continue to write things like the 'vast majority of the UK population' agrees with your particular ideology, then my responses to you will be the same.

I think I already discussed the whole 'says a good deal about you' trope. Not much more to be said. Please continue this micro-aggression if you feel you must but it is pretty banal. Not really much in the way of slings and arrows I'd say.

Please feel free to continue your fandom and reading of my posts. I must say though that when I have done similar things, someone, known to you, didn't like it and made some nasty allegations. Pretty much a coward. But please be warned, some people go more than a bit stupid over things. You are entirely welcome to stalk me as much as you want.

I have probably gone too far and I could spend much longer talking about myself but I won't. Your assessment of me is entirely irrelevant. As is my assessment of you. I am always up for a debate. You may notice that serious people who disagree with me get respectful and considered responses. If you are up for the challenge, I welcome it. If not, I really do not suffer preciousness lightly. I also can be blunt in requiring antagonists to back up their statements and have the courage of their convictions.

As for my nationality, mind your own business. I have reveal enough direct information in other posts for anyone to see my nationality and a lot more about who I am and things that have happened to me. But I won't be baited by direct demands. I provide information to help support or elaborate what I am saying. I do not use this for points scoring. I tried to be more subtle in this with intelligent posters. However as you have noticed, with cretins I do not do subtlety.

Thank you for your interest in my humble life. I am quite flattered. Not flattered enough to make a new avatar out of the experience but flattered none-the-less.

Edited December 23, 2015 by lostboy

[yogi100]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

What a complete load of useless abusive drivel . And you call them bird brains . You are one evil sick dog . Did you forget your medicine today or have you been on the white whisky ?

Europe started out with good intentions but is now sick with beaurocracy and badly run poor nations being allowed to join and drag the EEC down. It cannot survive in its present form and uk is forcing them to change it for the better or uk will leave .

Are you calling

Switzerland

Norway

Iceland

and a few more small principalities Neo-facists and bird brains as they are not in the eec and i am sure not many of them are in ukip. Better to engage your brain before you post

Once these lefties start with their bigot, racist, fascist or nazi routines you know you've got 'em on the hop. They're playing cards that expired long ago.

[yogi100]

The European Union will probably collapse before we get the referendum. I personally can't see the EU letting us leave, 55+ million a day says they will use any corrupt way to keep the UK in the EU. The one thing the EU has been good at is dividing Europe and making it more right wing. Its totally run by incompetent insane people and that includes British politicians.

The trouble with the West is we don't have any leaders that put their own people first.

There were plenty of leaders who put their own country first in the 1930s. Fortunately Europe has moved on since then.

Fortunately Europe has moved on since then.

Yeah, now look at the state of it.

What's it moved on to?

[brewsterbudgen]

The European Union will probably collapse before we get the referendum. I personally can't see the EU letting us leave, 55+ million a day says they will use any corrupt way to keep the UK in the EU. The one thing the EU has been good at is dividing Europe and making it more right wing. Its totally run by incompetent insane people and that includes British politicians.

The trouble with the West is we don't have any leaders that put their own people first.

There were plenty of leaders who put their own country first in the 1930s. Fortunately Europe has moved on since then.

Fortunately Europe has moved on since then.

Yeah, now look at the state of it.

What's it moved on to?

Peace, democracy and relative prosperity. Edited December 23, 2015 by brewsterbudgen

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies have been removed. For the final time, this thread isn't about the US or WWII. Stay on topic.

Also, continued personal remarks directed at other posters will be removed and can result in a warning and suspension.

[pumpuy]

No insult to birds , please .

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

[nontabury]

I must make an apology. I previously stated that the UK had a trade deficit with the rest of the UK of $61.6 billion a year. NOW according to the Office of National Statistics the figure is approximately £100 billion a year. And still some people think that in the event of a vote to withdraw from the EU, that the EU will be in a position to impose harsh trade conditions on the UK,sure they're likely to cut their own throat to spite the UK.

And for being allowed to remain in this corrupt club we're paying in £55,000,000 a day. What a great deal we're getting!

Any Brit who does not have the confidence to think we can go it alone, needs to really get into the facts and open their eyes.

Edited December 24, 2015 by nontabury

[Ace of Pop]

The EU and the IMF are causing much harm to Portugal it's overvaluing it's worth in Europe and causing the average family hardship..Naturally the Banks love it

[nontabury]

I must make an apology. I previously stated that the UK had a trade deficit with the rest of the UK of $61.6 billion a year. NOW according to the Office of National Statistics the figure is approximately £100 billion a year. And still some people think that in the event of a vote to withdraw from the EU, that the EU will be in a position to impose harsh trade conditions on the UK,sure they're likely to cut their own throat to spite the UK.

And for being allowed to remain in this corrupt club we're paying in £55,000,000 a day. What a great deal we're getting!

Any Brit who does not have the confidence to think we can go it alone, needs to really get into the facts and open their eyes.

Sorry! I should have said the Uk has a trade deficit with the EU.

[thaibeachlovers]

FYI ENGLAND'S GDP is one of the largest in the EU (it is huge and will be bigger out) and it is hoped by the majority of the U.K. that the jocks leave as they take out way more than they put in. As far as the UK and GDP is concerned, England generates the lions share and then some. The 'Scottish' oil, of which part is in English waters, accounts for something like 1% of GDP. Squat! And then you have the jocks with their hand out. The oil is not worth it and neither is Scotland. 55% of jocks who voted to stay in UK know this, but you don't right. For the cheap seats, the EU needs the UK more than the other way around which is why the leaders of other nations jump whenever exit is mentioned. It's got eff all to do with empire days ad nauseum. And as I say, yanks don't have a say. As to joining your <deleted> up nation I'd rather be with the Chinese; at least they have some brains and self respect.

Sorry to bring some reality to your myopic rant, but you are simply wrong in your assertion about Scottish contribution to the UK. This is from that wonderful arbiter of truth and objectivism, the BBC:

Similarly, that oil you claim to be in English waters - the result of Blair gerrymandering in the fag end of his tenure, but we will resolve that iniquity when the time comes.

But, hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your Little Engerlund rant. It is actually amusing.

Are these figures worked out from the SNP's estimate of 100$ a barrel of oil or today's figure of 35$

As for Tony WMD Blair you forgot to mention he is Scottish the same as Gordon Bigot Brown.

The BBC article I lifted the graphic from was produced in 2013 so I assume it is using the higher oil price, but the second value ignores all O&G contributions completely, so the reality is somewhere between the two, in effect showing that Scotland very much supports itself within the union, despite having a lower disposable income per head.

Of course (and I am sure you know this very well), it was not an SNP estimate of oil price, but a global expectation of continued high prices. Oil price forecasts are determined by Brent futures, and on the cusp of the price drop in mid 2014, Brent futures were still showing a plateau. I.e. nobody predicted the drop.

I am not sure why Tony Blair's origins are important, although I know very well that you have a major issue with it. The fact remains that his government has annexed a large part of Scottish waters for the English for no discernible reason other than a naked land grab. When the time comes, we will address this appropriately.

I.e. nobody predicted the drop.

If nobody predicted the drop, those highly paid economists aren't worth their pay. More likely is that they reported the likelihood of a drop and their lords and masters refused to do anything about it. Such was the cause of the subprime crash in 2007. Greenspan knew it would happen, but Bush et al refused to allow him to act on that knowledge.

[aslimversgwm]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

"The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time"

More like the biggest scroungers free Party of all time,most of the member states don't come anywhere near paying their way,it's a massive bankrupts feeding trough!

We should cut our losses and get out now! and start spending our money on our own country and people,instead of the handout freeby Brigade!

By the way you didn't say what country you are from? I suspect you have more of a personal interest than you are disclosing?

Sorry I've not responded but been away from my pc and unable to do so on my not so smart smart phone. But just to confirm: I'm probably more British than most of the abusive responders I've read on here. As Tony Hancock said in that hilarious Blood Donor sketch: "I'm pure Anglo-Saxon with just a dash of Viking". Just to add I served in the RAF for 10 years during the 60's, a time that included the Cuban missile crisis and a posting to Germany. These experiences showed me the necessity for a strong, united Europe with the UK playing a pivotal role in its development both politically and economically. It was Sir Winston Churchill who 1st advocated the UK joining what was then the EEC, but Charles De Gaulle vetoed it because he feared we would dominate and diminish France's position within the EEC. If we had subsequently pursued our entry once De Gaulle lost his power base we would now be enjoying a much stronger, leading role in its development and organization. Leaving is not a realistic option given the current geo-political and world trade situations. In my not so humble opinion!

[Ace of Pop]

IfIf and more ifs but it's not 1960 and it's all gone against England in favour of lazy buggers like they just take too much and send the UK benefit claimers only Thy don't come to Portugal cause we give em F A

[nontabury]

These 'little Englanders' - how I hate them! Neo-fascist supporters of UKIP, doubtless! That should get me some unwarranted responses, I sincerely hope!

The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time and the dear 'little Englanders' think that the UK is still the centre of the universe and can 'go it alone' in the fight against terrorism and economic survival.

Bird brains - all of them!

"The EU - one of the greatest political and economic unions of all time"

More like the biggest scroungers free Party of all time,most of the member states don't come anywhere near paying their way,it's a massive bankrupts feeding trough!

We should cut our losses and get out now! and start spending our money on our own country and people,instead of the handout freeby Brigade!

By the way you didn't say what country you are from? I suspect you have more of a personal interest than you are disclosing?

Sorry I've not responded but been away from my pc and unable to do so on my not so smart smart phone. But just to confirm: I'm probably more British than most of the abusive responders I've read on here. As Tony Hancock said in that hilarious Blood Donor sketch: "I'm pure Anglo-Saxon with just a dash of Viking". Just to add I served in the RAF for 10 years during the 60's, a time that included the Cuban missile crisis and a posting to Germany. These experiences showed me the necessity for a strong, united Europe with the UK playing a pivotal role in its development both politically and economically. It was Sir Winston Churchill who 1st advocated the UK joining what was then the EEC, but Charles De Gaulle vetoed it because he feared we would dominate and diminish France's position within the EEC. If we had subsequently pursued our entry once De Gaulle lost his power base we would now be enjoying a much stronger, leading role in its development and organization. Leaving is not a realistic option given the current geo-political and world trade situations. In my not so humble opinion!

Like you I also served in the RAF during the sixties, however I don't think the French thought the same as you when they supplied and serviced the Argentine with their Exocet missiles that killed so many British servicemen.

We don't need the EU, while the EU sure does need the UK,as has been stated throughout this thread. Open your eyes and don't be taken in by all of Cameron's bull shit. The U.K. can be stronger both economically and democratically by being in control of its own destiny rather then taking orders from a group of unelected corrupt bureaucrats. The EU is not in place to represent the interest of the people, rather to represent the interest of multinational and those same bureaucrats and the political elite.

[Richard W]

Like you I also served in the RAF during the sixties, however I don't think the French thought the same as you when they supplied and serviced the Argentine with their Exocet missiles that killed so many British servicemen.

At the time of the invasion of the Falklands, UK companies were servicing the Argentine Sea Dart missiles. No one had considered it likely that Argentina would attack; the UK negligently gave the signal that the UK didn't care about the South Atlantic colonies.

[nontabury]

Like you I also served in the RAF during the sixties, however I don't think the French thought the same as you when they supplied and serviced the Argentine with their Exocet missiles that killed so many British servicemen.

At the time of the invasion of the Falklands, UK companies were servicing the Argentine Sea Dart missiles. No one had considered it likely that Argentina would attack; the UK negligently gave the signal that the UK didn't care about the South Atlantic colonies.

Correct,though by the commencement of hostilities,the U.K. Companies naturally stopped while the French companies not only continued but increased their co-operation with the Argentina junta.

[Celer et Audax]

These types of threads always bring out the worst in people, especially when it's a British topic. The yanks think they have it bad but EVERYONE loves to bash the Brits, or the English to be more precise. There is no discussion, just pure unbridled bitching.

Bottom line, people are sick and tired of being dictated to by a foreign entity; a club which has burgeoned from what was signed up to as the common market that now controls most facets of life. We didn't sign up to that, and I most certainly didn't. The UK is a small island running out of space fast, services are struggling to cope and the EU cats just want to keep on shovelling the people in. Enough is enough, whatever is costs, even if, as some of you uninformed folk seem to think, it will lead the country to ruin. I'd rather have the latter and control of my backyard than ever closer ties to essentially being a diluted state. What's the point! It's not about wanting to be better than anyone or delusion of grandeur of days of empire etc (stroll on... whatever, most Brits couldn't give a monkeys about any of that past). Anyway, bash away haters, I'm done with this predictable thread.

I see you got difficulties to accept that all what comes from Brussel is the result of consense. Brussel's administration rules out what even you Brits agreed. So don't complain. Once you have signed a contract you have to fulfill and follow the rules. To make it easy for you to understand: If you are going to get a loan from a bank you are happy if you get it, but you have also to accept their rules in repayment and interest.

So if you leave EU you have to accept higher import taxes and also that your products are not competitive with EU products because of taxes/customs. Subsidies will be gone as well. So for me it's hard to see some blindfolded people on this small island. Open your eyes!

I just can't wait to see the look on the little englanders faces when they find out, no longer part of the EU, find the French gendarmes at Calais shrugging their shoulders and pointing out to the refugees that 'angleterre is over there'.

Cooperation gone: It will be one way to lessen the EU's migrant load, that is for sure.

And you don't think the French do that already?