Felangs publicly disrespecting the Thai National anthem

[luke000]

I do find it funny when farangs LOVE it and feel more Thai when they become an instant sheep.

I cannot understand why foreigners choose to go and live in a country and then feel it necessary to be disrespectful to that Country .

Do they sit at home, look at a World map, see a Country and think to themselves " Im going to go and live there and when they play the NA, I will sit down and show my disrespect?"

If they arrived here and their perception has changed, then they really should have packed their bags long before they felt the need to show public disdain.

I only reason that I can think of why people choose to remain here, is if they somehow get stuck here with no way out

[Plutojames88]

Here is a video of Chiang mai walking street, just outside the Temple , just as the Thai NA begins to be played .

Any Foreigner who ignores it and continues with their shopping, is acting disgracefully IMO

I want to make some observations...if I may Luke.

You seem to enjoy helping westerners understand the importance of standing to this event you frequent .

Being there as you are when it's played .

But to make sweeping statements that anyone who doesn't stand is being disrespectful is not indicative of any enlightened thinking.

Previously we examined the medical possibilities not to mention ethical ...being told by a junta in control what to do may not suit a passionate young woman.

She may be simply rebellion against dictatorship .

Which perhaps the Thais themselves should even one day consider.

She may like on the other hand to sit because her menstrual cycle left her feeling dizzy.

I need to ask is it because she is a western female that you resent her?

Went after her?

Do you have trouble with western woman?

Maybe a mother who isn't as receptive as you wish?

Is this why you turn up as so regularly scan the crowd for compliance?

I don't know.

We don't know .

But your traffic cop antics are becoming interesting when you mix it with statements that reflect judgements on females of your race.

And worse confronting them like an official of some sort.

As I said previously I would stand.

But it's an individual thing.

People are excused on personal grounds

Especially females.

Their biology at times dictates the moment.

She might be setting a good example in some ways until freedoms are returned.

Children today are reciting untruths in schools inflicted by a military state.

Should they also police any child who questions it?

Perhaps Luke you mean no harm and consider yourself a learned polite helpful insightful tourist friend of those other travellers.

You feel part Thai .

Lets hope you don't encounter too many shocks in future.

Let me give you an example.

If that same woman you approached had a deep understanding of "" real "" Thai culture and yelled out for help screaming you were molesting her as she wrestled with you.

Thai men would surround and kick the daylights out of you to score brownie points.

Cops would then haul you away and extort money from you.

No matter what other witnesses said.

In a street setting you could possibly be left unconscious.

You are not one of them nor will ever be Luke.

It might seem she was being disrespectful to you.

But in reality you disrespected her.

Which brings us back to why?

Enjoy the traffic cop position at this market.

But keep in mind some people feel dizzy or conscience permits them .

Their business

Not yours .

Good luck in the future

Edited December 22, 2015 by Plutojames88

[luke000]

Just a few points , Standing for the National anthem is nothing to do with the current Junta, people were standing for the NA long before the Junta took over, the video was shot long before the Junta gained power, so that point is obsolete .

You mention that She may have been having her period, the odds of that are 7/1. so that makes it highly unlikely. Also there were thousands of other woman there and at least 500 of those must have been having their periods, and they all managed to stand up, so, that point is also obsolete . She also managed to walk there and walk away again.

I do not resent her for being Western, although I do disagree with her choice to remain seated , although I do respect her right to do so and I also have a right to disagree with her choice .

Whatever Children learn is schools is irrelevant to this situation .

Scenarios of what may have happened are also irrelevant, because they didnt happen or shall we all make up possible situations and use them as a discussion, which would also be irrelevant, because, anything can happen, we can only concentrate on what did happen .

Some things that happen in so called Thai justice are , well, we all know, so theres no need point out the in justices, but simply sitting down for the NA will not change anything, if indeed that is why she choose to remain seated.

If remaining seated was a vote for ending corruption, then I would have remained seated as well, but, it wasnt .

Yes I am not Thai, I dont want to be and I really could never be Thai , I do not have the ability to put a stupid smile on for every occasion, I do speak my mind and I dont live , scared of Thai gangs, scared of Russian gangsters or scared of Thai authotirty , it was just last week that I asked a Thai Policeman , who was drinking outside my condo at 3 am to <deleted> , which he did, and just last night I had a disagreement with a noisy security guy .

So, no, I dont think that I will or ever can become a keep quiet smiley Thai, but maybe thats because I havent been here as long as you have .

[Lannig]

I have a question for you long-time stayers: do you, like I do, feel that this standing up motionless during the NA is something fairly new? or at least gaining much over the past year or so?

I mean, I first came to Thailand ca. 1988, I have lived 7 years in the country across Y2K, I'm now back living in my home country and visiting about twice a year. So I've lived many, many of these NA times over the past 20++ years (actually close to 30 now).

During my recents stays, I've noticed that in my former "base camp" place in the central/north region, people more and more tend to freeze when the NA is played in the evening. Much less in the morning, because many are hurrying to get to work or school in time

I can compare because I've known this small town for a long time.

To me, this really seems like a significant change. I can't recall in the past, especially not when I was living there some 10 years ago, or not as much, by far. I'd assume this is linked to the nationalism pushed by the junta making its way into the people's mind... or just fear of being regarded or even reported as a bad citizen... possibly having some sympathy to the red color?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Lannig

[balo]

Inside the cinemas I see sometimes farangs sitting down during the anthem , like they just don't care and are waiting for the movie to start. Even if everyone else is standing up. Not sure why they would not respect this tradition, or maybe they are just too fat and lazy.

Edited December 22, 2015 by balo

[puukao]

I don't mind respecting their culture.

I do find it funny when farangs LOVE it and feel more Thai when they become an instant sheep.

If USA made you stand before a movie to listen to Barack Obama, would you then like it??

If it was the Superbowl final and just before the game when the Stars and stripes is being played, if a Japanese player sat down on the pitch during the anthem, would you fully support his actions?.

Judgment call. If elderly, looked sick, medical condition, and looked sincere......probably just a look.

If he looked to do it out of disrespect, I would call him out.......i've called out people before who don't take off their hat......then they take off their hat.

you don't come on my land and disrespect my country!!!!!!

USA< USA< USA USA!!!!!!!

[Plutojames88]

Just a few points , Standing for the National anthem is nothing to do with the current Junta, people were standing for the NA long before the Junta took over, the video was shot long before the Junta gained power, so that point is obsolete .

You mention that She may have been having her period, the odds of that are 7/1. so that makes it highly unlikely. Also there were thousands of other woman there and at least 500 of those must have been having their periods, and they all managed to stand up, so, that point is also obsolete . She also managed to walk there and walk away again.

I do not resent her for being Western, although I do disagree with her choice to remain seated , although I do respect her right to do so and I also have a right to disagree with her choice .

Whatever Children learn is schools is irrelevant to this situation .

Scenarios of what may have happened are also irrelevant, because they didnt happen or shall we all make up possible situations and use them as a discussion, which would also be irrelevant, because, anything can happen, we can only concentrate on what did happen .

Some things that happen in so called Thai justice are , well, we all know, so theres no need point out the in justices, but simply sitting down for the NA will not change anything, if indeed that is why she choose to remain seated.

If remaining seated was a vote for ending corruption, then I would have remained seated as well, but, it wasnt .

Yes I am not Thai, I dont want to be and I really could never be Thai , I do not have the ability to put a stupid smile on for every occasion, I do speak my mind and I dont live , scared of Thai gangs, scared of Russian gangsters or scared of Thai authotirty , it was just last week that I asked a Thai Policeman , who was drinking outside my condo at 3 am to <deleted> , which he did, and just last night I had a disagreement with a noisy security guy .

So, no, I dont think that I will or ever can become a keep quiet smiley Thai, but maybe thats because I havent been here as long as you have .

You need to listen or at least read what's being said.

No one suggested standing to the anthem is something new .

But westerners having a politic reason under a dictatorship may rightly or wrongly in their own minds object.

I am not saying its a smart objection but could fathom a passionate young woman wanting to make her point.

"" I am not obeying""

Nationalist xenophobic propaganda is being increasing used along with LM

She may have even sort confrontation ?

Or at least wanted to show open disrespect for purely anti junta reasons .

While they hold power and imprison people it's very much a point of view that disorient non compliance is her silent protest.

It's up to her.

Personally I would stand .

So what ?

It's her call.

As for it being obsolete maybe in your mind it is.

But in hers it might not be .

As well as thinking along the lines of her having no reasonable excuses lets look at what you say.

You think because she only has a one in seven chance of having a period it's an mute point?

Not at all .

Some ...not all or many .....but some woman get cramps .

Feel dizzy getting up .

The thing is its not for you to judge or decide.

You seem to consider yourself an official judge of some sort.

Even if that were the case lets look at your rationale .

7/1 chance you say.

Woman have 28 day cycles we are told and on average menstruated for 4-5 of those days .

That would make her chances of experiencing a period more like 5.5 to one.

And the fact she didn't stand perhaps indicative of even a lower odds.

But again how can you exclude that possibility?

If there are say 10% of woman with periods in that market

It's possible some are also discomforted.

Not standing might well be a reflection of that.

Then to have some chump play cop after the embarrassment ...

It must be very humiliating

And if she was being deliberate

She didn't have six months to live or had some hernia or one of six million other reasons for not standing.

Even needed to pee.

Here is this little Nazi boy intruding on her space.

And yes given human rights abuses ( Thailand is on the lowest level ) and jailing for LM .

Some people get 30 Years

This woman might feel it insidious to be condoning any form of reverence to such institutions in her mind.

I like many here certainly could understand her view on ethics.

While a junta is so pro active it's not an obsolete point at all.

In fact it's very relevant .

Thailand is sliding away from democracy at this point.

Envoy's are even investigated by police for LM

If you feel something special and want to stand do so.

But leave others alone who don't.

You have absolutely no right to interfere with her freedoms

Edited December 22, 2015 by Plutojames88

[Petchou]

As a Brit, I wouldn't expect any foreigner to stand up for God Save The Queen.

In fact, there are quite a few nationalities that we Brits have been rather beastly to, that if they did stand up, it could be construed as disrespectful to their own countries.

Should a Burmese person stand up for the Thai national anthem?

If they have good reason to disrespect a National anthem, then fair enough, dont stand .

But the lady in question , had no good reason.

I did ask her why, and she offered no reason at all

It's none of your business, whatever her reasons are, good or bad ones.

[prestburypark]

No disrespect at all, Its a Thai anthem for Thai people, disrespect would be catcalling or booing. If one quietly sits or otherwise remains calm during a foreign countries ceremony, one is actually being respectful.

Of course with the current Laise Majesty crackdown and overtly xenophobic government it might just be prudent to swallow some pride (or whatever) and do as the Thais do.

At the movies I do stand as I don't want to hurt the Mrs feelings or face, does not cost me anything, but I think Thais should not expect foreigners to know or care about standing or not.

TIT rules, of course.

[Crossy]

A number of posts removed.

Violation of forum rules:-

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Plutojames88]

No disrespect at all, Its a Thai anthem for Thai people, disrespect would be catcalling or booing. If one quietly sits or otherwise remains calm during a foreign countries ceremony, one is actually being respectful.

Of course with the current Laise Majesty crackdown and overtly xenophobic government it might just be prudent to swallow some pride (or whatever) and do as the Thais do.

At the movies I do stand as I don't want to hurt the Mrs feelings or face, does not cost me anything, but I think Thais should not expect foreigners to know or care about standing or not.

TIT rules, of course.

I tend to agree with the writer above..

In a confined setting where your requested to stand ...it's always good to so.

But I recall my Thai partner some years back being upset by a woman who didn't stand .

Later on the way out she asked her why?

And the woman explained she had a medical reason.

I was embarrassed at my partner and profusely apologised .

The lesson I learnt was to not intrude on others.

Forgive people who trespass in your own mind small insignificant things.

I have seen heavily pregnant woman on buses standing while a vacant seat next to a monk remained and they insisted on me having it.

The reasons being woman are not meant to touch monks or be seated next to one in this state or otherwise.

We tend to go along with Thai cultural things.

And standing is one of them at movies etc.

I am not so sure it needs to be complied with in settings like markets and /or public spaces .

I once was in the presence of royalty ( the middle princesses who now suffers a debilitating disease) in rural settings .

She was there to officiate an opening.

I was requested to kneel by a soldier.

As I was wearing suit pants and white shirt and tie.

I informed him the best I could do was stand and be formally structured in my stance to show western respect.

It was allowed.

She never came within fifty feet of me.

And my partner was thrilled to even be there amongst hundreds .

When the anthem played I noticed many people didn't stand .

Not through disrespect but a unseen reason.

Some ill .

Some old

Some disabled .

No one questioned them .

No inquisitions .

[luke000]

You need to listen or at least read what's being said.

No one suggested standing to the anthem is something new .

I replied to the above post who clammed that standing to the Thai NA is something that the current Junta imposed last year.Whilst people in Thailand have been standing for their NA way long before that .So, contrary to what you clammed, posters on TV did indeed claim that standing to the Thai NA is something new , which they were wrong abourt

[luke000]

No disrespect at all, Its a Thai anthem for Thai people, disrespect would be catcalling or booing. If one quietly sits or otherwise remains calm during a foreign countries ceremony, one is actually being respectful.

Of course with the current Laise Majesty crackdown and overtly xenophobic government it might just be prudent to swallow some pride (or whatever) and do as the Thais do.

At the movies I do stand as I don't want to hurt the Mrs feelings or face, does not cost me anything, but I think Thais should not expect foreigners to know or care about standing or not.

TIT rules, of course.

I tend to agree with the writer above..

In a confined setting where your requested to stand ...it's always good to so.

But I recall my Thai partner some years back being upset by a woman who didn't stand .

Later on the way out she asked her why?

And the woman explained she had a medical reason.

I was embarrassed at my partner and profusely apologised .

The lesson I learnt was to not intrude on others.

Forgive people who trespass in your own mind small insignificant things.

I have seen heavily pregnant woman on buses standing while a vacant seat next to a monk remained and they insisted on me having it.

The reasons being woman are not meant to touch monks or be seated next to one in this state or otherwise.

We tend to go along with Thai cultural things.

And standing is one of them at movies etc.

I am not so sure it needs to be complied with in settings like markets and /or public spaces .

I once was in the presence of royalty ( the middle princesses who now suffers a debilitating disease) in rural settings .

She was there to officiate an opening.

I was requested to kneel by a soldier.

As I was wearing suit pants and white shirt and tie.

I informed him the best I could do was stand and be formally structured in my stance to show western respect.

It was allowed.

She never came within fifty feet of me.

And my partner was thrilled to even be there amongst hundreds .

When the anthem played I noticed many people didn't stand .

Not through disrespect but a unseen reason.

Some ill .

Some old

Some disabled .

No one questioned them .

No inquisitions .

Right, so every person can disrespect a Country's National Anthem choosing to deliberately to remain seated and get excused because some other people may not be able to stand up .

"I dislike this country and I refuse to stand up for its National Anthem, BUT disabled people also dont stand up, so its quite acceptable"

[luke000]

.

You think because she only has a one in seven chance of having a period it's an mute point?

Not at all .

Some ...not all or many .....but some woman get cramps .

Feel dizzy getting up .

The thing is its not for you to judge or decide.

You have judged her and concluded that She has period clamps and you wasnt even there and you didnt even see her, yet I am incorrect for not acknowledging that she had period clamps, even though YOU are the only person who has suggested that She did, even She didnt suggest that

[Daryle]

Nationalism has caused more troubles than its worth. There is a time and place for the NA and playing it everyday at the same time falls into the propaganda realm IMHO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Plutojames88]

No disrespect at all, Its a Thai anthem for Thai people, disrespect would be catcalling or booing. If one quietly sits or otherwise remains calm during a foreign countries ceremony, one is actually being respectful.

Of course with the current Laise Majesty crackdown and overtly xenophobic government it might just be prudent to swallow some pride (or whatever) and do as the Thais do.

At the movies I do stand as I don't want to hurt the Mrs feelings or face, does not cost me anything, but I think Thais should not expect foreigners to know or care about standing or not.

TIT rules, of course.

I tend to agree with the writer above..

In a confined setting where your requested to stand ...it's always good to so.

But I recall my Thai partner some years back being upset by a woman who didn't stand .

Later on the way out she asked her why?

And the woman explained she had a medical reason.

I was embarrassed at my partner and profusely apologised .

The lesson I learnt was to not intrude on others.

Forgive people who trespass in your own mind small insignificant things.

I have seen heavily pregnant woman on buses standing while a vacant seat next to a monk remained and they insisted on me having it.

The reasons being woman are not meant to touch monks or be seated next to one in this state or otherwise.

We tend to go along with Thai cultural things.

And standing is one of them at movies etc.

I am not so sure it needs to be complied with in settings like markets and /or public spaces .

I once was in the presence of royalty ( the middle princesses who now suffers a debilitating disease) in rural settings .

She was there to officiate an opening.

I was requested to kneel by a soldier.

As I was wearing suit pants and white shirt and tie.

I informed him the best I could do was stand and be formally structured in my stance to show western respect.

It was allowed.

She never came within fifty feet of me.

And my partner was thrilled to even be there amongst hundreds .

When the anthem played I noticed many people didn't stand .

Not through disrespect but a unseen reason.

Some ill .

Some old

Some disabled .

No one questioned them .

No inquisitions .

Right, so every person can disrespect a Country's National Anthem choosing to deliberately to remain seated and get excused because some other people may not be able to stand up .

"I dislike this country and I refuse to stand up for its National Anthem, BUT disabled people also dont stand up, so its quite acceptable"

The point is Luke how do you know when you approach a person you take issue with as to their possible reasons?

The possibilities are endless as to why and legitimate perhaps for not standing.

What if they simply said I felt dizzy?

Needed to wee ?

Thought it my democratic right to protest.

I don't respect them ( the institution and / or government)

What is it that compells you to officiate over these people?

And in what capacity do you do so?

How did you know she was guilty before you approached her in your mind?

Do you get a kick out of leading westerners to rise for an anthem ?

Is that your thing?

Or is it waiting to pick on western woman .?

Do you have issues with your mother?

Or just girls from the west?

I ask seriously , as you seem so hell bent on prosecuting them instead of affording them benifit of the doubt.

What else do you pick them up on?

Do you advise them to wai when purchasing a trinket .

Speak Thai in transactions ?

Give out one on one corrections on protocols?

Are you really there for the food?

Or to make a some deluded points of PC ?

What's really interesting is your self appointed right to confront people .

She is not breaking any laws.

Harming you .

And her reasons might have been very valid ( if indeed she even needed a reason.)

So why the hell are you approaching people ?

You are causing tourists at the very least a verbal form of assault .

Leave them alone in future Luke it is not your place to have a say on issues that don't concern you what so ever-

You are not an authority on all things Thai or how to behave there.

Mind your own business is the GENRAL Consensus here.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Plutojames88

[luke000]

Plutojames88 You have made the same points previously and I did reply to them,

[luke000]

A female Person acts in a disrespectful way, yet She becomes the victim of oppression :

Hello Western World ,

Caucasians off to Asia calling .

[Ace of Pop]

At 6 pm on a Sunday I'm too pissed to stand up.[emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481]

[ClutchClark]

Here is a video of Chiang mai walking street, just outside the Temple , just as the Thai NA begins to be played .

Any Foreigner who ignores it and continues with their shopping, is acting disgracefully IMO

I want to make some observations...if I may Luke.

You seem to enjoy helping westerners understand the importance of standing to this event you frequent .

Being there as you are when it's played .

But to make sweeping statements that anyone who doesn't stand is being disrespectful is not indicative of any enlightened thinking.

Previously we examined the medical possibilities not to mention ethical ...being told by a junta in control what to do may not suit a passionate young woman.

She may be simply rebellion against dictatorship .

Which perhaps the Thais themselves should even one day consider.

She may like on the other hand to sit because her menstrual cycle left her feeling dizzy.

I need to ask is it because she is a western female that you resent her?

Went after her?

Do you have trouble with western woman?

Maybe a mother who isn't as receptive as you wish?

Is this why you turn up as so regularly scan the crowd for compliance?

I don't know.

We don't know .

But your traffic cop antics are becoming interesting when you mix it with statements that reflect judgements on females of your race.

And worse confronting them like an official of some sort.

As I said previously I would stand.

But it's an individual thing.

People are excused on personal grounds

Especially females.

Their biology at times dictates the moment.

She might be setting a good example in some ways until freedoms are returned.

Children today are reciting untruths in schools inflicted by a military state.

Should they also police any child who questions it?

Perhaps Luke you mean no harm and consider yourself a learned polite helpful insightful tourist friend of those other travellers.

You feel part Thai .

Lets hope you don't encounter too many shocks in future.

Let me give you an example.

If that same woman you approached had a deep understanding of "" real "" Thai culture and yelled out for help screaming you were molesting her as she wrestled with you.

Thai men would surround and kick the daylights out of you to score brownie points.

Cops would then haul you away and extort money from you.

No matter what other witnesses said.

In a street setting you could possibly be left unconscious.

You are not one of them nor will ever be Luke.

It might seem she was being disrespectful to you.

But in reality you disrespected her.

Which brings us back to why?

Enjoy the traffic cop position at this market.

But keep in mind some people feel dizzy or conscience permits them .

Their business

Not yours .

Good luck in the future

Earth to Pluto.

Earth to Pluto.

Come in Pluto.

[Plutojames88]

A female Person acts in a disrespectful way, yet She becomes the victim of oppression :

Hello Western World ,

Caucasians off to Asia calling .

Slowly your revealing your hand .

Caucasian woman pain you?

Why the hell is she showing you disrespect ?

How?

What's it got to do with you?

Your not even Thai?

Did she even show disrespect?

How?

Where does it say she needs to stand in public for 6pm Thai national song ?

And again what business is it of yours?

[CharlieH]

time for this to CLOSE.