Why so many openings at Prem?

[bangmai]

http://ajarnrecruit.com/many-teaching-positions-available-in-bangkok/

My high school had about five new teachers per year with 2000 students. I've never set foot on the Prem campus, but I have heard all the glowing reviews and what appears to be more snob appeal than a party at the Kennedy compound. This just seems odd for a school with such high acclaim, in what is clearly an employers job market, which also appears to have the highest pay in the region. What gives?

[Bill97]

Advertising equals acclaim?

Prem has not been an academic powerhouse.

[bangmai]

Advertising equals acclaim?

Prem has not been an academic powerhouse.

I was going to give them the benefit of the doubt, but you could probably add pretentious to the list.

[bluweyze]

I don't know any facts but there is a good possibility location is an issue for those teachers who are younger or do not have a family. A one hour drive from the city means either living away from normal non family social life or a long commute to school.

[davehowden]

"A one hour drive from the city means either living away from normal non family social life or a long commute to school."

My heart bleeds for them, they should try working in London with a 3 hour commute each way bless them.

[Puwa]

You went to high school?

[Mousehound]

A turnover of five teachers in a school that size is tiny. Some teachers retire. Some get pregnant. Some have family that move to another district or country. Some go into admin or consulting or just feel they have had enough and want a new career.

[baywatch82]

This is reality of International Schools.

At APIS turnover every year is about 50%. Teachers simply complete their 2 years contract and move on. They go back to their home country or move to a better schools for example in Singapore, Dubai or Taiwan.

Prem pays the best money in the region (double what other schools pay), but as somebody said before, location is not that convenient especially for young single people.

[Ricardo]

The pattern for international-schools like Prem, in my limited experience of international-schools and from talking to staff there, is that people may need to move every 3-4 years to build their experience & c.v. There are other teachers who stay several years at Prem.

This is common in other professions too, as a young accountant I would change jobs and/or companies, every couple-of-years for promotion or to widen my experience.

Also they like, just like the rest of us, to see the world while being paid for it, and hence would move-on after a few years in one country.

Another good thing about Prem, is that they help teachers-in-training who need a year's hands-on experience as part of their degree, by offering a limited number of 1-year contracts, these are usually young & enthusiastic people, who are happy to run after-school activity-clubs or do mentoring & week-end activities for boarders (remember that Prem is approx one-third boarding, unlike most other international-schools in CM), as it makes them look good to future employers.

And these posts need to be filled every year, starting from August, so are probably listed & recruiting by now.

[bangmai]

A turnover of five teachers in a school that size is tiny. Some teachers retire. Some get pregnant. Some have family that move to another district or country. Some go into admin or consulting or just feel they have had enough and want a new career.

There is a lot of data on teacher turnover, mostly in the States, because it is costly to the taxpayers. Close to 17% appears to be near the average, per year. An average public school is pretty rough in America.

[naboo]

Turnover may be 17% in the states, but that is the home country for most of the staff.

International schools have much higher turnover, many teachers stay for their two years then leave, some renew and stay four, others become part of the furniture.

International schools in one of the Middle Eastern countries (I forget which) are mandated to undergo annual inspections, the reason being that the staff turnover is so high the government considers it to be sufficient to change the culture of the school on an annual basis.

I don't know how many staff Prem employ, but the list in the link is substantial. It could be random, lots of staff just happened to leave at the same time, it could be because a popular member of management is leaving (I have no idea if this is the case), it could be that there is a large influx of Chinese students to Chiang Mai currently and Prem is therefore expanding its, so needs more staff.

I have no idea, but hiring a lot of staff does not in itself indicate rough seas ahead.

[CMKiwi]

Ive already mentioned this in another blog/topic somewhere. Apparently one of the top dogs (Prem Authority figure) has been a bit of a prat to quite a few of the top teachers. This has not gone down too well in the least so now a lot of the senior staff are serving out their final term before moving on to a better employer or greener pastures.

This info was passed onto me from one of those so afflicted, and he added that money isnt everything (ie hes got very full pockets already)

So it appears morale is not the greatest amongst the senior staff at the moment and is a major factor to the mass migration at the end of this term.

[Dante99]

Ive already mentioned this in another blog/topic somewhere. Apparently one of the top dogs (Prem Authority figure) has been a bit of a prat to quite a few of the top teachers. This has not gone down too well in the least so now a lot of the senior staff are serving out their final term before moving on to a better employer or greener pastures.

This info was passed onto me from one of those so afflicted, and he added that money isnt everything (ie hes got very full pockets already)

So it appears morale is not the greatest amongst the senior staff at the moment and is a major factor to the mass migration at the end of this term.

Thanks Kiwi, good insight.

"the end of this term" meaning the term that ends mid year or at the end of the school year in May or June? Big difference for the impact on the school.

This thread is typical for its lack of factual information with a few quite welcome exemptions. Talk of high teacher turnover without anyone stating what that number actually is pie in the sky. There are a number of openings posted on the school website for lower and upper school openings which can be easily counted. Then there is a staff listing for both lower and upper school which can be counted. These two numbers will give a fairly accurate figure of turnover, not 100% but a lot closer than the figures that have been batted around. something around 12 to 17/50=24 to 34%???? IF those numbers are in the ball park then teachers on the average are staying for 3 to 4 years at Prem which really is not unusual, initial contracts are generally 2 years and will often extend due the cost of relocating.

The one year positions mentioned need not be included since they are primarily boarding as opposed to classroom teachers and the openings are for classroom teachers with specific classroom skills.

Pay at Prem is high for the "region" if that region is Chiang Mai but not if that "region" includes Bangkok, Malaysia and Singapore.

[CMKiwi]

Pay at Prem is the highest outside of Bangkok, but Im not sure why you mention Malaysia and Singapore. This is Thailand afterall.

Why should the other countries be part of the equation? In if you want to include them then why stop there? Maybe add China....the list could go on.

However, in saying all this. The point I was trying to say was that to the senior teachers leaving, its not about the salary. They love their job, but cannot work with the top guy who thinks they must kiss butt of the wealthy kids parents and allow little Johhny to pass exams that little Johnny cant be naffed to study for.

Sometimes money CANT buy everything

[naboo]

They love their job, but cannot work with the top guy who thinks they must kiss butt of the wealthy kids parents and allow little Johhny to pass exams that little Johnny cant be naffed to study for.

And that is where the British system wins....

[bangmai]

As I suspected, without ever going to the campus, where there is smoke......and a few getting defensive only fans the flames. Could we sum it up by saying the new boss is considered to be a dick? I just hope those, whose jobs are being advertised, didn't read about it here. Style over substance...let's see the SAT scores.

[Dante99]

Pay at Prem is the highest outside of Bangkok, but Im not sure why you mention Malaysia and Singapore. This is Thailand afterall.

Why should the other countries be part of the equation? In if you want to include them then why stop there? Maybe add China....the list could go on.

However, in saying all this. The point I was trying to say was that to the senior teachers leaving, its not about the salary. They love their job, but cannot work with the top guy who thinks they must kiss butt of the wealthy kids parents and allow little Johhny to pass exams that little Johnny cant be naffed to study for.

Sometimes money CANT buy everything

No argument from me, just trying to clarify a few things, "region" can have different meanings. Due to several characteristics of Prem, there really are not a comparable schools in CM so to compare apples and apples you have to look further.

Your point about teacher dissatisfaction and academic quality is clear and appreciated (and it is also clear why further details can not be discussed).

[Dante99]

As I suspected, without ever going to the campus, where there is smoke......and a few getting defensive only fans the flames. Could we sum it up by saying the new boss is considered to be a dick? I just hope those, whose jobs are being advertised, didn't read about it here. Style over substance...let's see the SAT scores.

Are you sure the issue is with a "new boss"? Did I miss where that was previously mentioned?

[evenstevens]

for the life of me ,paying up to approx 1 mil BAHT a year to go to PREM. is ridiculus but the hi.so,s keep rocking in

my daughters uni fees at c/rai for 4 yrs is approx 300.000 baht, toss in another 900.000baht approx for living and out of pocket expenses etc etc

TOTAL approx 1.2 mil baht done and dusted

with a lucky throw of the dice and if she acheives a high pass ,a emirates cabin crew position beckons for her (approx 1.2 mil a yr salary tax free plus benefits)

my daughter only had normal thai govt schooling all the way, and from beverly hills mae rim during this time with travelling time her days were 12 hr ones

but she did nt blink a eyelid and just simply got on with it,

there we go a simple nice story comparing thai govt schooling to the ridiculus priced PREM

perhaps PREM should bring back david phillips,if all this rumpus is true

a very merry xmas to all on the c/mai forum and also all mods as well

[baywatch82]

with a lucky throw of the dice and if she acheives a high pass ,a emirates cabin crew position beckons for her (approx 1.2 mil a yr salary tax free plus benefits)

Her Line ID please ?

[Dante99]

for the life of me ,paying up to approx 1 mil BAHT a year to go to PREM. is ridiculus but the hi.so,s keep rocking in

my daughters uni fees at c/rai for 4 yrs is approx 300.000 baht, toss in another 900.000baht approx for living and out of pocket expenses etc etc

TOTAL approx 1.2 mil baht done and dusted

with a lucky throw of the dice and if she acheives a high pass ,a emirates cabin crew position beckons for her (approx 1.2 mil a yr salary tax free plus benefits)

my daughter only had normal thai govt schooling all the way, and from beverly hills mae rim during this time with travelling time her days were 12 hr ones

but she did nt blink a eyelid and just simply got on with it,

there we go a simple nice story comparing thai govt schooling to the ridiculus priced PREM

perhaps PREM should bring back david phillips,if all this rumpus is true

a very merry xmas to all on the c/mai forum and also all mods as well

Who is David Phillips and what did he do at Prem in the past? Or do you mean David Baird?

[evenstevens]

for the life of me ,paying up to approx 1 mil BAHT a year to go to PREM. is ridiculus but the hi.so,s keep rocking in

my daughters uni fees at c/rai for 4 yrs is approx 300.000 baht, toss in another 900.000baht approx for living and out of pocket expenses etc etc

TOTAL approx 1.2 mil baht done and dusted

with a lucky throw of the dice and if she acheives a high pass ,a emirates cabin crew position beckons for her (approx 1.2 mil a yr salary tax free plus benefits)

my daughter only had normal thai govt schooling all the way, and from beverly hills mae rim during this time with travelling time her days were 12 hr ones

but she did nt blink a eyelid and just simply got on with it,

there we go a simple nice story comparing thai govt schooling to the ridiculus priced PREM

perhaps PREM should bring back david phillips,if all this rumpus is true

a very merry xmas to all on the c/mai forum and also all mods as well

Who is David Phillips and what did he do at Prem in the past? Or do you mean David Baird?

perhaps baird ,a few yrs back u know

the david who i am mentioning,brought it up from a rubble of a place, left or got the punt,the latter i do beleive

head principle was his position if my memory is correct

[Ricardo]

for the life of me ,paying up to approx 1 mil BAHT a year to go to PREM. is ridiculus but the hi.so,s keep rocking in

<snip for brevity>

a very merry xmas to all on the c/mai forum and also all mods as well

I must be getting one heck of a discount, because I pay less than half that amount, for Prem ?

Perhaps because I'm not hi-so enough ?

And yes, Seasons' Greetings to all on the Chiang Mai forum.

[millwall_fan]

The turnover figure the OP quotes for Prem is not unusual, the International School in Bangkok that I teach at, has a similar turnover figure. Most do, for the reasons cited above. Prem pays the highest salaries in the northern Thailand region: they pay only a little more than mine which is a very small school in Bangkok. Many of the big schools in Bangkok pay way more than Prem. As to the wider region: China, Korea,Taiwan, Japan, Singapore etc, all pay higher salaries, although of course the cost of living is higher too.

I have also heard that the demands at Prem have increased under new 'executive management' (that means the Thai admin that really runs things in most International Schools, rather than the head teacher who doesn't).With more demands for ECAs, increased boarding duties, more things that staff have to pay for themselves, less budget for resources, these things drive teachers away as much as salary levels.

Merry Christmas to all Thai Visa Chiang Mai forum members from a former sponsor!

[LarryBird]

A teaching gig at prem is pretty much the most coveted gig in the region, outside of getting a cushy spot at a consulate. The OP asks a reasonable question, only to be bombarded with unrelated suppositions. If there are really that many people leaving at the school, it is highly unlikely it is simply up to a coincidence of many teachers wanting to return home, or leave for another common reason. There has likely been something significant to occur if it looks like that many teachers are leaving one of the highest paying jobs in the region.

[millwall_fan]

A teaching gig at prem is pretty much the most coveted gig in the region, outside of getting a cushy spot at a consulate. The OP asks a reasonable question, only to be bombarded with unrelated suppositions. If there are really that many people leaving at the school, it is highly unlikely it is simply up to a coincidence of many teachers wanting to return home, or leave for another common reason. There has likely been something significant to occur if it looks like that many teachers are leaving one of the highest paying jobs in the region.

Assuming that a 'gig' is a teaching position, If you would care to re read what people have posted above, it is perfectly normal in international schools for there to be a high turnover. International school teachers throughout the world are generally on 2 year contracts and as they tend to be younger, part of the attraction of the job is to experience living and working in different parts of the world. I am currently on my second contract as I am older and my son has a free place at my school and is very happy there. Whether I move on next contract or become, as Naboo says, part of the furniture will depend on a number of factors including, but not restricted to, the salary I am offered.

[scorecard]

Ive already mentioned this in another blog/topic somewhere. Apparently one of the top dogs (Prem Authority figure) has been a bit of a prat to quite a few of the top teachers. This has not gone down too well in the least so now a lot of the senior staff are serving out their final term before moving on to a better employer or greener pastures.

This info was passed onto me from one of those so afflicted, and he added that money isnt everything (ie hes got very full pockets already)

So it appears morale is not the greatest amongst the senior staff at the moment and is a major factor to the mass migration at the end of this term.

Lots of assumptions and third hand stuff.

[bangmai]

I just looked at a former employer's website...7000 students...12 teaching openings..plus five Special Ed. Undesirable location, mediocre school district. Bachelor's Degree starts at 150K per month. One bedroom apartments run 40,000 and up. (in the exurbs of DC).

[CMKiwi]

Im not sure how the information I reported is third hand stuff or even for that matter assumptions. This was information from one of the teachers whom is leaving, so in that case it would be first hand to me and 'second' hand to this forum.

That said, people will believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts may or may not be. I tend to believe what I was told as this individual (Teacher) as he is a fairly straight up guy and doesnt mix his words.

[LarryBird]

A teaching gig at prem is pretty much the most coveted gig in the region, outside of getting a cushy spot at a consulate. The OP asks a reasonable question, only to be bombarded with unrelated suppositions. If there are really that many people leaving at the school, it is highly unlikely it is simply up to a coincidence of many teachers wanting to return home, or leave for another common reason. There has likely been something significant to occur if it looks like that many teachers are leaving one of the highest paying jobs in the region.

Assuming that a 'gig' is a teaching position, If you would care to re read what people have posted above, it is perfectly normal in international schools for there to be a high turnover. International school teachers throughout the world are generally on 2 year contracts and as they tend to be younger, part of the attraction of the job is to experience living and working in different parts of the world. I am currently on my second contract as I am older and my son has a free place at my school and is very happy there. Whether I move on next contract or become, as Naboo says, part of the furniture will depend on a number of factors including, but not restricted to, the salary I am offered.

Wow, all of those words with no substance. Newsflash, people change jobs! However, if we look at the job listings, and assume they are vacant positions from people leaving their posts, I will guarantee it is SIGNIFICANTLY higher compared to years past at PREM, if that info is available.