lucky11 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No surprise at all...Once again we an horrific misjudgement by the Thailand courts....all about protecting their inept corrupt police If you are to believe the BBC take on events the so called 'inept corrupt police' were being protected by the seven defence lawyers!! Now, who would have imagined that? I personally don't believe this, I rather think that they were, for whatever reason, completely outflanked by the prosecutors with convincing evidence supplied to the court as to their undoubted guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridge Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Case closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I've read some appalling stuff on this forum but the comments attacking the British victims' family and alleging that they would agree to anything that they did not really believe to be the truth about the murders of their dear ones and are actually involved in a conspiracy with the Thai Government, the Thai Poilice, the UK Government, the UK Police, the Mafia and Uncle Tom Cobley and all, stoops to the depths lower than the muck on the bottom of my shoe. Those who are citing and supporting Jonathan Head and the BBC, wait to see what happens if they dare make the same allegations against the family directly in the UK that some of the depraved idiots have made here so far. Yeah, we all should fall in line. Even many have the feeling, that justice wasn't done, even many think, that 2 innocent people (2 MORE innocent people) are suffering... Let's just all bow our heads, because some one says so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elektrified Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Most crucial aspect to me is that the families of the victims are obviously satisfied with the verdict. How could they if they had doubts that just scapegoats are sacrificed here? What now? New accusations that they were paid off as well? Whatever, let's just wait whether there will be actually an appeal and in the affirmative what the outcome will be. Amazing indeed. No, not necessarily the verdict but rather the reactions by lay people to it without even knowing the content and explanations in the verdict. The reactions are the result of people locking themselves up in an echo chamber (and I'm including most of the media here), they only listened to what the defense had to say and to what speculation best fitted their own prejudices. What are you on about? There was no evidence of murder against the defendants - i.e. the murder weapon or anything tying them to the murders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven23 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Abolishing of death penalty !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The complete lack of law and order/justice is the main reason that I no longer live in Thailand. I cannot understand why the rest of you are still there. Some of us are stuck here economically. Sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Just listening to LBC. No one calling in believes the verdict is right. Wonder why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arandora Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) I've read some appalling stuff on this forum but the comments attacking the British victims' family and alleging that they would agree to anything that they did not really believe to be the truth about the murders of their dear ones and are actually involved in a conspiracy with the Thai Government, the Thai Poilice, the UK Government, the UK Police, the Mafia and Uncle Tom Cobley and all, stoops to the depths lower than the muck on the bottom of my shoe. Those who are citing and supporting Jonathan Head and the BBC, wait to see what happens if they dare make the same allegations against the family directly in the UK that some of the depraved idiots have made here so far. Yeah, we all should fall in line. Even many have the feeling, that justice wasn't done, even many think, that 2 innocent people (2 MORE innocent people) are suffering... Let's just all bow our heads, because some one says so! So everyone else is expected to believe the twisted utterings of people like you who would have sensible people believe that a decent, grieving family has bowed their heads, because you say so! Where is YOUR evidence for that!!! People can have their views on the case, the trial and the result but to make unfounded and disgraceful insinuations against the family makes them no better than the ones they say "we should all fall in line with". Edited December 24, 2015 by Arandora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Troll / Flaming and Nonsense Posts removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No DNA NOTHING terrible unbelievable just my two cents No DNA NOTHING!! - this was the main grounds of evidence that sent them down - their 7 defence witnesses failed to challenge this (because they were not able to). So, contrary to what you write, this was their undoing and it proved to be the key evidence resulting in their conviction. So, your two cents worth is probably worth a few dimes at most!! "A one-page table with alterations is not a suitable document to provide to a court. A report should not have alterations, especially hand-written ones, with no explanation as to why they were altered." There were other problems too. The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been the 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October. This was two days after the police had announced a positive match with the two Burmese defendants. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419 Who cares about this date, that date, all that matters is that the B2's semen was found inside Hannah Witheridge and the seven top defence lawyers accepted this to be the case as it wasn't challenged in court. Game over, end of story!! No lets be accurate.. The police claim the B2s semen was found inside Hanna Witheridge.. When the court said that fact needed independant testing suddenly it was no longer available to test. Secondly yes, if the police announce a DNA match, in a timeframe that makes it impossible for that DNA match to have been accurately performed, the same sample that can no longer be independently tested.. The whole thing seems highly suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsanddogs Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I still feel the strong statement from David Millers brother means he must have heard something in this case that convinced him that the evidence is good enough. As an observer and not knowing all the facts it's very difficult to understand for most people . We are not closer to the truth ,if they are scapegoats or not. Personally I believe they were present on the beach that night, close to the murder scene, but that someone else did the actual killings. But I'm pretty sure they will appeal and the sentence will not be death, unless new evidence is provided that will clear their names, this will probably end up as a life sentence. That could take a couple of years. I believe this crime was committed by more than two people, and that the B2 may have indeed been on the scene at the behest of their employers at the time. Their employers who btw people that believe that this verdict is correct, have been pictured mocking these events. They have been posted here before. That the B2 were at the scene of the murders but did not commit them seems to be the belief of quite a few people. Taking everything that has been reported into consideration over the past 15 months, I too think this a possibility. If this were true, then the B2 need to speak up and bring down the people they are protecting because if not it seems they are going to go down alone. Possibly they have been threatened with the murder of their parents should they speak of any such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishcarlos Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The sad fact is, this will now disappear from the media spotlight. There will probably be an unsuccessful appeal but as far as the government and police are concerned, its game over. They'll be partying on Koh Tao tonight, even if it wasn't Xmas eve !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezr Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 After watching the video of the family of one victim, I will agree that these two innocent looking men likely committed this crime, and deserve their fate. Could you sit through all of the court time that they did and do any better? That is my question to the rest of this forum's audience. These 2 guys had SEVEN lawyers to defend them and lost the case. The lawyers were also top lawyers do not forget! RIP to the two victims who should have been able to enjoy a wonderful vacation in Thailand instead of meeting a cruel viscous end. My condolences to the family and friends of the victims I hope you are able to get over this tragedy and still enjoy Thailand in the future as a nice holiday destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oziex1 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The furore erupts, once again we argue and bicker amongst ourselves, we talk of DNA and courtroom failings of foreign government subterfuge, baffling comments from authorities and we demand something or someone do something about it, we threaten to leave the country like caged animals we want to lash out at those who do not give us the ideals we believe in, where are they are they in our home countries sitting comfortably by the fire or under an open window in a cooling breeze? Yes so often we turn to our clean and safe western democracies to show an example of how it should be done but when we turn to look we find the uncomfortable truth of also terrible misuse of the justice systems back in land perfect. It's all but over now, DNA, I'm right your wrong doesn't matter any more, appeals and petition will likely have little or no effect although I hope the lives of the two will be spared by appeal. I'm in no way suggesting a defeatist give up stance simply an end to the repetitious petty arguments that have been a feature of this topic on this forum since the crime was committed. To those activists who stood against the odds and in the name of justice for the two, your bravery and tenacity is a strength few have, to challenge the violent and arrogant on the Island may have without our knowledge saved a life of tourists or foreign workers whose lives seem so easily disposable. I have posted my opinion on this matter in past threads, it didn't go the way I hoped just the way I expected. To veteran expats this is nothing new, seen it before they say and see it again sadly may be true. What can we take from this Thai justice is backward and controlled by the elites yeah maybe. I truly believe the western justice system is a bit more advanced and polished still however in the hands of the well heeled, but the ordinary Joe still has a chance. The world turns, there is no us and them only us the Human Race and this is how we are. Evolution bring it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I feel sorry for their loss. But this does not excuse their celebrating this verdict. If they know something that gives reason for their opinion they should let everybody know - so people can peacefully agree with the verdict If not they have been brainwashed - or may be even bribed?? "Brain washed, bribed"!! I can't believe you have just written such a disgusting thing. Despicable allegations at such a desperately sensitive time for the Miller family. Shame on you for even thinking such things let alone sharing them!! Are there no limits to what you are prepared to espouse in your sick posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loxley99 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 A VERY sad day for Thailand ..yet another nail in the coffin of Thai justice ...it is really very scary that the justice system here is one that gives foreigners such little confidence that they can feel safe when visiting or living here ..!! In any civilised country this case would have been thrown out of court due to the police incompetence. I pray that justice may yet prevail .... I feel that the parents of the victims can take little satisfaction from this verdict, at this time of year in particularly, and the proposed murder of yet two more humans and do a disservice to their murdered children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krenjai Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Anybody that lived in Thailand or is living in Thailand will understand this verdict. How sad it may be, some have accurately predicted the outcome because it all comes down to the concept of saving face, a concept not really known in the West. That is also the reason any appeal will fail because again the loss of face is at stake. That fact that two young innocent Burmese are put to death is unimaginable but the power of saving face is apparently much stronger! The statement of the Millers, which they for sure did not drew up themselves, is beyond my believe. Looking at this family I feel very sorry for them. I do not wish to be in their shoes when one day, after the Burmese have died, we will find out who really did this (we already know), wishful thinking I know.... The statement of the Witheridge family makes more sense to me: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246&typecate=06§ion= ""We found listening to proceedings very challenging and we have had to endure a lot of painful and confusing information. We now need time, as a family, to digest the outcome of the trial and figure out the most appropriate way to tell our story.” I am afraid they will eventually conclude the same as the Millers, that the RTP and the judge did an outstanding job bla bla bla..... This trial will always stay with me as did OJ, OJ got his karma, I hope the real killers will do as well. Not a good Christmas for me! Edited December 24, 2015 by Krenjai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamaster Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Iam dugusted, with Britains stance on this case. But of course it is called diplomacy! So now we are lickspittles to the third world. Diplomacy? The West would use every opportunity they could get to use this to slag off the military Junta. Most likely Scotland Yard has informed the authorities that they do not have a case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikosan Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No surprise. I'm not sure that 'beyond reasonable doubt' was achieved, mind you, do they have that here? Seems like a travesty of justice, who knows, but I can't help feeling a bit sorry for the two guys and I'm not known for my sympathetic tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPB65 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Why let a little thing like Reasonable Doubt get in the way of sending two guys to their death ? This is a new low for Thailand. The international community really need to start giving this country the cold shoulder, just too many abuses of everything....democracy, human rights, corruption, the list is endless. Thailand needs to be outed and held accountable rather than people just looking the other way. Everything will go on as it always does though.....Thainess ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsanddogs Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The weight of the case rested on sperm collected from Ms Witheridge’s body, which was alleged to link the men to the attack, but an independent assessment was blocked after police admitting destroying the evidence. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/koh-tao-backpackers-murder-burmese-workers-convicted-of-murder-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-a6785096.html What do the families of David and Hannah make of such stuff I wonder? What is the overwhelming and compelling evidence? However, defence teams claimed the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe, did not contain any DNA that matched either defendant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth4All Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Appeal time, this isnt done, world media is going to be all over this. One more nail in the Juntas coffin. THAILAND SUCKS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No DNA NOTHING terrible unbelievable just my two cents No DNA NOTHING!! - this was the main grounds of evidence that sent them down - their 7 defence witnesses failed to challenge this (because they were not able to). So, contrary to what you write, this was their undoing and it proved to be the key evidence resulting in their conviction. So, your two cents worth is probably worth a few dimes at most!! "A one-page table with alterations is not a suitable document to provide to a court. A report should not have alterations, especially hand-written ones, with no explanation as to why they were altered." There were other problems too. The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been the 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October. This was two days after the police had announced a positive match with the two Burmese defendants. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419 Who cares about this date, that date, all that matters is that the B2's semen was found inside Hannah Witheridge and the seven top defence lawyers accepted this to be the case as it wasn't challenged in court. Game over, end of story!! Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy @riverview810 @JeromeTaylor defense did challenge DNA evidence collection, analysis and reporting process as not complying with ISO17025. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Thankfully there an appeal process. Hopefully the world media and governments put the heat on this shambles. Is the judge required to give his/her summary of considerations which led to the verdict? They wont get time to appeal. They will be executed quickly to save face & to stop the real perpetrator being caught. Just wait & see what the world (unrestricted) media do with this. That will not happen. Executions are very rare in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Quote from a Bangkok based journalist friend (not that <deleted> Jonathan Head) : "The thing that nobody talks about is that the police in the UK did their own autopsy when the bodies got there. They then came to Thailand to get DNA on the suspects. Since then the UK police and the families of the victims have been silent. They would have to be because otherwise they would prejudice the prosecution in Thailand. However, now the case is over so we should hear something from the families. They should be aware of what Scotland Yard concluded from their evidence and therefore what they say now is worth listening to. I understand that leaping to conclusions of innocence is a sign of a kind heart, but that doesn't make it so. If the families believed the police had the wrong men they wouldn't accept it, and Scotland Yard would not either. So now the verdict is out let's see what news comes out of the UK." That is part of the dignity and stoicism from the families that I was referring to, they are made of better stuff than me because I wouldn't had stood by patiently while social media "sleuths" played their games. You were one of the biggest "sleuths" and game players on the social media! Ask him if he/family have "interests" on KT...Go on ask him.... Stop being so childish with you're infantile comments, I, and I'm sure many others are getting bored with them. whilst you are at it, why don't you ask him if he has any relations in the RTP in Koh Samui or whether he is friends with the phantom KS Mafia. You probably are unaware how stupid you are making yourself seem...........or there again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikovest Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Shame for Thai justice This is the 24.. the day Jesus was born ... and the same day thise 2 person is found guilty..... NO..NO... My Cristmas will never be same... This is not right.... NO way ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbirds20 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Looks like the scapegoats have been turned in to sacrificial lambs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldiablo Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 43+thousand views on this tread so far. Wonder how many are government officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Follow Ian Yarwood@IanYarwood_Law @idannyb @RichardBarrow @pakhead DNA evidence was never properly established. DNA collection expert Jane Taupin is disappointed/depressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 "The court on Samui island this morning ruled that there is sufficient evidence to implicate the two defendants, Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, in the double murder of British nationals David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in September 2014." What evidence was that I wonder? The DNA semen matches were only based on the police's say so, as they refused to provide any documentation to support their claims and refused to allow independent verification. There was no DNA link to the murder weapon. The UK coroner found that Hannah had not even been sexually assaulted which threw into doubt that there were actually any semen samples for the Thai police to test. The only incontrovertible evidence was that the defendants were on the beach during some portion of the night that the murders took place but that is purely circumstantial. Did the court simply accept the unsupported police claims of DNA match and the confessions that were allegedly made under police torture and retracted by the time of the trial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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