Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[Lokie]

Think we all knew how this was going to play out, still is disgraceful and shameful for a whole nation, loosing face? they are doing a great job of showing thainess to the whole world, hope Karma will deliver their just deserts one day...

[HenryB]

The real murderers have successfully organised the state authorized murder of another two people.....

Cost a few $ ( 125 million baht is a figure I have heard quoted but no verification on that )

Never mind, give it a couple of years and it will happen again.

Impunity rules.

How sad for Thailand this is.

How the hell will you know? You are passing a viscous rumor

Do not me the some fool told you that bull

[Dogmatix]

The FCO should advise the victims' families that political expediencies may be drastically different by the time the appeals are heard. The NCPO might not be in power any more. The police who were in charge of the investigations might have retired or been transferred to inactive posts like Pol Lt Gen Panya Mamen was soon after he started investigating the headman's people. The prosecutors might have also been kicked into touch. A future Thai government might be trying close some sweet deals with Burma.

They should also stop BSing them that police and the justice system are just like at home.

[soalbundy]

word on the street has it that the real murderers are not in the country at the moment. a large amount of money

has been paid to frame the Myanmar boys.

Which street would this be ? somewhere in the windy city right? i thought Kojak was dead

[berybert]

Judge 1, "Well we now have to give our verdict".

Judge 1, "Judge 2 your verdict please".............. Judge 2, "not guilty".

Judge 1, "Judge 3 your verdict please"............... Judge 3, "not guilty".

"Ok well I as head judge agree. So we have 3 not guilty submissions".

Verdict ............ "Guilty".

[soalbundy]

The real murderers have successfully organised the state authorized murder of another two people.....

Cost a few $ ( 125 million baht is a figure I have heard quoted but no verification on that )

Never mind, give it a couple of years and it will happen again.

Impunity rules.

How sad for Thailand this is.

How the hell will you know? You are passing a viscous rumor

Do not me the some fool told you that bull

His mate Fred Thorwissel in the gogo bar told him, must be true

[HenryB]

word on the street has it that the real murderers are not in the country at the moment. a large amount of money

has been paid to frame the Myanmar boys.

Which street would this be ? somewhere in the windy city right? i thought Kojak was dead

Does he even speak Thai to understand what is being said

Once how will the street know?

[hobobo]

Does David Miller know how many people have been hanged in the UK in the 50's and 60's, and subsequently found to be innocent. I hope he thinks about that when the B2 will die!

[pbeieio]

Sometimes "closure" is what a family requires. This is often accompanied by a desire for "justice".

A criminal court can only deliver one of two verdicts, in this case I choose another option

A coroners court can declare a case "open".

I wish the families peace and closer.

[hobobo]

Does David Miller know how many people have been hanged in the UK in the 50's and 60's, and subsequently found to be innocent. I hope he thinks about that when the B2 will die!

Profoundly sorry, my mistake - David Miller's brother.

[cumgranosalum]

soon, there will be nearly a thousand posts on the "guilty" thread.....if justice was do=ne by vote they'd be back in Myanmar by now.

However I find it very saddening that the family for one reason or another had made their collective mind up some time ago.....and from my persective and that of many. many of those who wanted a "fair trial" and appropriate procedure, they have come done on the wrong side of the fence.

There is no amount of "evidence" or argument that can turn me from the conclusion tht this was a rial that would never have happened in a country with proper separation of powers - e.g police, judiciary and legislative.

It has been so unsatisfactory right from the start that no-one accused - no matter whether immigrant or even "Mafia boss" could ever have had a fair trial.

[stickylies]

Too bad. They are Burmese.

Thai prisons are full with Burmese... Burmese are pariahs ánd occasionally do commit crimes. I've worked with Burmese and its naïve to think all Burmese are weak, gentle, oppressed beings. Violence against their own women is rampant due to alcohol, drugs and gambling addiction. Poverty u know, lack of education, grim future... I'm not saying these guys do it. Just saying evil is everywhere...and sh!t happens.

[tribalfusion001]

Does David Miller know how many people have been hanged in the UK in the 50's and 60's, and subsequently found to be innocent. I hope he thinks about that when the B2 will die!3

3 people exonerated after being hanged, not many is it. I doubt Michael Miller cares about the killers.

[protectyourcultures]

The families seem to be convinced of their guilt (BBC) and they attended the trial. They also, no doubt, had access to information not privy to the rest of us. I would refrain from jumping to conclusions and 'Thai bashing' to be honest. Let's see what happens at the inevitable appeal.

[seabass69]

Need 'Reasonable Doubt' exist for any appeal to be successful?

Does Thai law have a fundamental principle?

[soalbundy]

Does David Miller know how many people have been hanged in the UK in the 50's and 60's, and subsequently found to be innocent. I hope he thinks about that when the B2 will die!

yes well at least they had a fair trial and died in the fresh air

[tonypace02]

nearly a thouysand posts on the "guilty" thread.....if justice was do=ne by vote they'd be back in Myanmar by now.

However I find it very saddening that the family for one reason or another had made their collective mind up some time ago.....and from my persective and that of many. many of those who wanted a "fair trial" and appropriate procedure, they have come done on the wrong side of the fence.

There is no amount of "evidence" or argument that can turn me from the conclusion tht this was a rial that would never have happened in a country with proper separation of powers - e.g police, judiciary and legislative.

It has been so unsatisfactory right from the start that no-one accused - no matter whether immigrant or even "Mafia boss" could ever have had a fair trial.

If you have so much to offer the defense, why did't you testify?

[cracker1]

Hi David,

I am extremely saddened by the tragic loss of your Brother but having lived here for more than ten years I believe you have been grossly mislead if you believe the verdict is JUST.

Sadly the perpetrator will probably never appear before the Courts here in Thailand.

[Guitar God]

Thanks for your input. Again, nothing to support why your feeling of "not guilty" outweighs the victim's family's feeling of "fair trial, guilty as charged" and nothing to suggest a more plausible alternative explanation. The victim's didn't kill themselves.

The prosecution has a theory that the judge and the victim's family believes.

Here, the theory seems to be, rich Thai rapes and kills two people, no witnesses, escapes without a trace, everybody gets paid off to frame two innocent men who just happened to be right there at the wrong place at the wrong time.

In search of actual factual information I clicked on the link about the phone the police recovered from the suspect's house. My mistake. It did not belong to the female victim, it belonged to Mr. Miller, the male murder victim.

That's some excellent exculpatory evidence. No wonder you're so puzzled that they were convicted.

The other points I brought up don't prove murder, they put them at the scene of the crime, right before the crime. The video evidence of them going to 7-11 to buy beer and cigarettes links them to the cigarette butts on the beach near the scene of the crime which makes it harder for conspiracy theorists to say the police wiped the butts on the two non-smokers to frame them. The buying beer shows they were drinking, something that happens quite often before most rapey behavior.

Enlighten me as why the victims parents, who actually witnessed the trial and saw the evidence, the actual evidence and not the couple paragraphs of poorly translated and filtered Thenglish you read in the Bangkok Post, are satisfied with the DNA evidence but you're not.

Are they stupid, ignorant, were they offered a big brown envelop, did the BIB hook a car battery up to Mr Miller's nutsack and threaten him ?

Complaining and criticizing is easy, coming up with a more plausible explanation is evidently much more difficult. If one was posted here I missed it in the high noise to signal thread.

I'm not siding with the cops, I'm not telling people to quit their bitching, I'm asking for better answers but unfortunately, none are forthcoming.

The phone they found near where to the 2 Burmese lived?

The one they cannot even prove belongs to David?

The one they cannot show with any certainty that either of the 2 Burmese men ever even touched?

The one that may have been planted at any time?

Of the one "The female victim's telephone was found at Zaw Lin's lodging with his fingerprints on it."

are you saying these men brutally murdered 2 people, went to bed, and dumped evidence connecting them to the crime right outside their living quarters? really?

"The buying beer shows they were drinking, something that happens quite often before most rapey behavior."

Are you for real?

I know 1000s of men that drink beer, as far as I know none of them resort to "rapey behavior"

I cannot speak for David's family, I've not even mentioned them once in any of my posts..

I do not know how they arrived at their beliefs.. That is their business not mine.

Can you tell me one thing that shows the 2 Burmese men murdered Hannah or David?

Anything: A witness, some credible DNA, A motive, a weapon?

Did either of the Burmese have "Shark Ring" that may have caused the wounds on David?

Having a couple of beers, and smoking a cigarette on the beach is a bit weak; are you are condemning them based on that?

The DNA evidence is worthless. no chain of custody, and no reliable testing or records.

[Mister Fixit]

There is no jury. Only one judge. And as much As I want to think the court is corrupt. It's more likely a piss poor defense. Lawyers for the most part are very unskilled and unwilling to do probono work. Court appointed lawyers are very green and inexperienced. But the good thing is they can appeal.

Do a bit of homework_ 3 judges...

See post #484 ...

[Artisi]

Brother of victim says justice has been served

The Nation

KOH SAMUI, Thailand - A Thai court sentenced two Myanmar migrant workers to death on Thursday after convicting them of the 2014 murders of two young British tourists on a holiday island.

The battered bodies of backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were found on a beach on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014. Police said Witheridge, 23, had been raped and bludgeoned to death. Miller, 24, also suffered blows to his head.

Following weeks of pressure to solve the case, police arrested Myanmar migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun.

The verdict and sentence follow an investigation and trial that triggered allegations of police incompetence, mishandling of evidence and DNA tests and torture of the suspects.

The verdicts came after 21 days of witness hearings in a trial that began in July and ended in October.

The court said the DNA tests by investigators were carried out to acceptable standards and the DNA found on Witheridge matched that of the defendants.

The judge said there was no weight to the two men’s claims that they had been tortured.

Miller’s family flew to Thailand for the verdict. His brother, Michael, delivered a statement to reporters outside the court and said justice had been delivered, adding that the two men had shown no remorse for what they had done.

"We believe what happened today represents justice for Hannah and David," said Miller. "The Royal Thai Police conducted a thorough and methodical investigation ... evidence against the two was overwhelming."

Witheridge’s family said the trial had been distressing.

"We found listening to proceedings very challenging and we have had to endure a lot of painful and confusing information," the family said in a statement.

"We now need time, as a family, to digest the outcome of the trial and figure out the most appropriate way to tell our story."

The mother of one of the defendants broke down in tears as the judge passed sentence in the court on Samui island, close to Koh Tao.

Defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat told reporters that the defendants would file an appeal within a month.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Brother-of-victim-says-justice-has-been-served-30275595.html

-- The Nation 2015-12-24

If indeed the DNA found on Witheridge matched that of the defendants then I would conclude that they were indeed guilty as charged ! The questions here concern credibility, competence in the investigation, and integrity.

Would you like to explain why that makes them guilty of murder?

[tribalfusion001]

All this thread is about mostly about the poor Burmese migrants. What about poor David and Hannah who just happen to be on holiday on a tropical island and get violently murdered?

[berybert]

The families seem to be convinced of their guilt (BBC) and they attended the trial. They also, no doubt, had access to information not privy to the rest of us. I would refrain from jumping to conclusions and 'Thai bashing' to be honest. Let's see what happens at the inevitable appeal.

You along with many other people talk of information the rest of us have never seen.

There has just been a trial for a double murder. It seems none of this evidence was shown in court either, so how can a judge call a guilty verdict from information that has been withheld ?

[cumgranosalum]

The families seem to be convinced of their guilt (BBC) and they attended the trial. They also, no doubt, had access to information not privy to the rest of us. I would refrain from jumping to conclusions and 'Thai bashing' to be honest. Let's see what happens at the inevitable appeal.

You along with many other people talk of information the rest of us have never seen.

There has just been a trial for a double murder. It seems none of this evidence was shown in court either, so how can a judge call a guilty verdict from information that has been withheld ?

"They also, no doubt, had access to information not privy to the rest of us." - really? They also had access to a barrage of misinformation by various parties concerned and appear to have no concept of what constitutes proper procedure or a fair trial.

[peter48]

The dead young man's UK brother is rigoruosly defending the verdict and dismissing claims this trail was a shambles. So we have to give that credence as that family was here at trail. This is being shown on BBC

[Eclipse]

All this thread is about mostly about the poor Burmese migrants. What about poor David and Hannah who just happen to be on holiday on a tropical island and get violently murdered?

Yes. Murdered by someone, but not by these two.

[B166ER]

....hmmm you know....the whole thing started with an argument in the A.C bar. Thai kid takes a shine to blonde tourist, he was spurned....in front of all his buddies....this whole thing started from that (according to reports and testaments made a year ago. All the info is online....Look it up like I did! NO...I will not post....Look it up yourself)

Now ask someone who's just moved here what that means....ask someone who's lived here for more than a couple of years what that means.....there's your Miller Family!....

[Eclipse]

The dead young man's UK brother is rigoruosly defending the verdict and dismissing claims this trail was a shambles. So we have to give that credence as that family was here at trail. This is being shown on BBC

Clutching at straws.

Any conviction is comfort. Correct or not.

[tribalfusion001]

All this thread is about mostly about the poor Burmese migrants. What about poor David and Hannah who just happen to be on holiday on a tropical island and get violently murdered?

Yes. Murdered by someone, but not by these two.

Any proof to corroborate this?

[Mosha]

Too bad. They are Burmese.

Thai prisons are full with Burmese... Burmese are pariahs ánd occasionally do commit crimes. I've worked with Burmese and its naïve to think all Burmese are weak, gentle, oppressed beings. Violence against their own women is rampant due to alcohol, drugs and gambling addiction. Poverty u know, lack of education, grim future... I'm not saying these guys do it. Just saying evil is everywhere...and sh!t happens.

As soon as we heard "No Thai could do this". The rest was a forgone conclusion.