Many Thais weighed down by debts

[elgordo38]

No wonder at all, that in the age of unbridled consumerism and easy money to everyone, and the

notion that the government will bail the poor out just like many government before this one, not to say

the attractions of cheap cars and unnecessary items for the masses, not hard to understand

where the debts are coming from.... plus the fact that Thai people are terrible with saving and managing

their monies, what do you expect than?

And they told us in the West that the sacrifice of good Western paying jobs being exported to Asian countries were to lift them up by the bootstraps so to speak and this new found prosperity would mean they would in turn buy expensive Western technology. Yes I can see this in all the new cars floating around and we also exported the "debt" idea. Yes we sure lifted them up by their bootstraps right into debt quagmire. Exporting Democracy well not so much. When examining the word "Democracy" I sometimes wonder if it really truly exists anywhere on the planet. There is the phantom Democracy that cloaks the West and the straight thumbs down Democracy enjoyed/endured in a lot of Asian countries. I imagine that a lot of old timers here have already figured out that the so called "Democracy" is nothing but a cover word for increasing wealth to the 1% ers the big enchilada's that give presidents and governments their marching orders. PS a little off topic I see the rubbery numbers out of the USA continue. Unemployment insurance claims have dropped to the lowest in 42 years. Really? Or is it just maybe the majority of unemployed have run out of benefits. There seems to be just enough "juice" in the economy to stop it from hemorrhaging more jobs.

Edited December 25, 2015 by elgordo38

[SoFarAndNear]

This country is really a playground for people who already born into wealth.... for all others it is just a survival or doing illegal stuff and/or selling your body....

[elgordo38]

It seems like most countries in the world, the Thai people are no different.

In Thailand I have seen private lenders all over, just as in Canada we see the

Pay Day loan places and HFC Finance if it still exists, or other business in Canada

or USA that will lend money at huge rates. Wait! those real crooks are call credit card

companies. I forgot how much interest they all charge us.

Don't forget the banksters going into the high interest secondary car loan markets. This is a true bubble in the making.

[SoFarAndNear]

It seems like most countries in the world, the Thai people are no different.

In Thailand I have seen private lenders all over, just as in Canada we see the

Pay Day loan places and HFC Finance if it still exists, or other business in Canada

or USA that will lend money at huge rates. Wait! those real crooks are call credit card

companies. I forgot how much interest they all charge us.

I doubt that these companies will visit your home at night and threatening your family if you are late with payments...

[hgma]

I have seen 2 debt riddled people move out of the province, 1 was caught in Bangkok and didn't survive the other her whereabouts are not yet established.

Network of loansharks track them down in the smallest villages these days.

Deadly business.

[Rancid]

This is hardly a unique Thai problem. Here at home there are a lot of TV ads for companies to consolidate debt and small quick approval loan companies.

Some credit cards are charging 20%, and many bank cards also offer interest free periods to roll your debts over to them.

Governments love consumer spending to help drive stagnant economies, however in countries with falling wages or rising unemployment that is being fuelled by debt.

All would suggest very high levels of unmanageable debt are common. When we finally have to pay the piper on the world economy, debt is going to be a big problem for both debtors and creditors.

[prakhonchai nick]

2% per day?

In our village the daily rate is between 20% and 50%.

There are people borrowing 100bht one day and paying back between 120bht and 150bht the next.

These rates are predominantly charged to the illegal card players. The loan sharks hang around the illegal casinos (in every town and many villages) and are immediately available when the player runs out of money. Of course they are convinced they will win later in the day and be able to pay back.

The in-town/village folk who provide loans usually do so at around 5%/month, but when these loans are unpaid, the villagers have to resort to the mafia sharks who charge upwards of 2%/day...and collect daily.

2 women from a neighbouring village to me had to escape earlier this month, as they were being threatened by the mafia loan sharks. Seems like they can NEVER return home, since even if they could find the amount of the loan to repay, the interest keeps getting bigger and bigger.

[onni4me]

As I see it:

1. Pay them decent salaries. Most people here live from hand to mouth. I see some people getting almost the same as they did 15 years ago when in the meanwhile prices have gone way up. Could you take care of a family of 5 with 300-550 baht income daily resulting maximum of 12000 a month? I could not.

2. Who benefits? Could it be the hi-sos on the top? I think so. Keep them poor buggers and take everything you can from them.

3. Culture itself is much concentrated in the concept of "luck" and fatalism so what can you expect? They see a chance to have something - even if not too long - and they take it in desperate act trying to better their lives.

4. Have you ever tried to get a loan from a Thai bank? Minimum 3 years on a payroll before you can even ask for a loan. And they like to see collateral to a quite high level. Very difficult to most save money, pay school/education debts, family allowances and work continuously for years. System is flawed since some people steal approximately 30% of budget money. Yep, that is how much they have been estimated of stealing.

Thailand is way late with an overhaul of it's wages, cultural ways of managing things and many other aspects.

[donmuang37]

My Thai wife works as a teacher, works 6 day a week, hugely educated, but earns a daft amount like £300 a month. Seems to me some of the blame lays with wages not covering the basics even for professionals.

Good point. My Thai sister-in-law is a teacher, too. She's a Deputy Governor at a Thai government school. She works nights and weekends tutoring so she can pay her house payment, utilities and other expenses . Why? Partly because of criminally low wages, and also due to a lazy, drunken Thai husband who gives her absolutely no money, not even for food. He spends all his income on beer and cigarettes. Sadly typical.

[bazza40]

My father always taught me that if you can't afford it then go without. As a result I owe nobody anything, and even credit cards are only used as a means of payment and are paid off each month. However, with his mindset he refused to buy our house in London when I was a kid. It would have cost 10,000 pounds. Now it's worth 600,000.

The only time it's worthwhile getting into debt is for a house; however, the best thing one can do is pay off the mortgage as quickly as possible. I had a

similar education from my father, and it's served me well. Although both of us are probably regarded as financial dinosaurs. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[bazza40]

This is hardly a unique Thai problem. Here at home there are a lot of TV ads for companies to consolidate debt and small quick approval loan companies.

Some credit cards are charging 20%, and many bank cards also offer interest free periods to roll your debts over to them.

Governments love consumer spending to help drive stagnant economies, however in countries with falling wages or rising unemployment that is being fuelled by debt.

All would suggest very high levels of unmanageable debt are common. When we finally have to pay the piper on the world economy, debt is going to be a big problem for both debtors and creditors.

I think it was Alan Bond who said if you owe a bank a hundred thousand dollars, you've got a problem. If you owe the bank a hundred million dollars, the bank's got a problem.

[trogers]

My Thai wife works as a teacher, works 6 day a week, hugely educated, but earns a daft amount like £300 a month. Seems to me some of the blame lays with wages not covering the basics even for professionals.

Good point. My Thai sister-in-law is a teacher, too. She's a Deputy Governor at a Thai government school. She works nights and weekends tutoring so she can pay her house payment, utilities and other expenses . Why? Partly because of criminally low wages, and also due to a lazy, drunken Thai husband who gives her absolutely no money, not even for food. He spends all his income on beer and cigarettes. Sadly typical.

She chose her spouse...

[trogers]

My father always taught me that if you can't afford it then go without. As a result I owe nobody anything, and even credit cards are only used as a means of payment and are paid off each month. However, with his mindset he refused to buy our house in London when I was a kid. It would have cost 10,000 pounds. Now it's worth 600,000.

The only time it's worthwhile getting into debt is for a house; however, the best thing one can do is pay off the mortgage as quickly as possible. I had a

similar education from my father, and it's served me well. Although both of us are probably regarded as financial dinosaurs. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Pay off the mortgage as soon as possible? These days, the working young are shopping for the barest minimum sum to be paid over a lifetime...

[DrTuner]

Lots of happiness there, at least 99%.

[KarenBravo]

Yet another problem caused by "face".

Going broke to look rich.

[Ks45672]

My Thai wife works as a teacher, works 6 day a week, hugely educated, but earns a daft amount like £300 a month. Seems to me some of the blame lays with wages not covering the basics even for professionals.

Good point. My Thai sister-in-law is a teacher, too. She's a Deputy Governor at a Thai government school. She works nights and weekends tutoring so she can pay her house payment, utilities and other expenses . Why? Partly because of criminally low wages, and also due to a lazy, drunken Thai husband who gives her absolutely no money, not even for food. He spends all his income on beer and cigarettes. Sadly typical.

She chose her spouse...

Probably when she was about 16 and already pregnant....

I know a few "good" girls who work hard and they managed to get either knocked up or married to complete degenerate Thai men when they were barely grown up themselves

One had a kid with a young policeman from the village and while she was still pregnant she found out another girl in the village was pregnant with him too.... Big shame and lost face at that time

You really can't blame people forever for mistakes they made as a young stupid teenager...

[MaeJoMTB]

The only time it's worthwhile getting into debt is for a house; however, the best thing one can do is pay off the mortgage as quickly as possible.

Not if you're a married man in the west.

She'll dump you and take the house the moment you pay it off.

Married men, better to rent.

[rasmus5150]

A motorcycle taxi guy I know wanted to borrow money from a bank (any bank) to buy a second hand pickup truck so he could also offer services transporting goods and transport his welding gear (he is also a freelancer welder). Not one bank would lend him money despite evidence of daily/weekly deposits. I felt sorry for him and gave him an interest free loan myself. He has not once missed a payment - usually pays early - and only has three payments left to clear the debt. He has since increased his income streams and he claims his life is improving. If I had not stepped in he would have had no option but to go to a usurious money lender.

Thanks for making my Christmas even better. Great story.

[PeCeDe]

Thank goodness I'm no longer in debt, what a beautiful feeling. But for me (I know I'm not alone), I learned some hard lessons. Debt seems to be a plague on much of Asia, I've mentioned this before here, but in the Phil. the "poorer" class are preyed on by money lenders using the 5/6 rule, i.e. I lend you 5,000 and next month you owe me 6,000, just put your pen to paper and figure out that annual percentage, but at first it seems deceptively cheap. I've seen a few people there end up raiding McDonalds dumpsters and living on the streets because of that. As Mr MiCawber said in one of Charles Dickens books, "Earn a pound and spend nineteen and six, eternal happiness... Earn a pound and spend 20 shillings and sixpence... Eternal Damnation."

[wooloomooloo]

The banks are to blame for a lot of this, very hard for average Thai's to obtain a loan even if ever so small.

There's a good reason for that. Jeez.

[simon43]

Panit Kerdchokchai, adviser to the Foundation of Virtuous Youth...

Off-topic, but what is this Foundation? Sounds somewhat bizarre...

[farangmick]

I'd never have been a successful money lender. Shortly after my marriage, before wife and children turned me into a poor farang, I lent a modest sum to my new in laws, who have money and land, but claimed everything was tied up in long term saving plans. The verbal agreement seems to have been 0% interest and 0% capital repayment over a period of eternity. Saved me money over time though. Wife was mortified, and made sure that the hordes of uncles and 3rd cousins who swarmed in from darkest Issan to meet the new ATM went away empty handed.

Of course, I help out family who I know are grafters, if they are sick or injured, but the rest of the extended family now know they will get sod all.

[Searat7]

The banks are to blame for a lot of this, very hard for average Thai's to obtain a loan even if ever so small.

The ones who are benifiting off the poor are scum they know they can offer lower interest but greed is what it is all about.

Banks are also to blame for extending too much credit to some people, well beyond the ability to repay loans. I am sure many of the people who use loan sharks have already exhausted the credit lines with banks. I think many here do not live within their means.

[ExpatOilWorker]

"Most debtors in cities were vendors and salaried people". You don't say!!!!!

That's right

Not too many farmers at Nana Plaza

No,it's their daughters.

Some university students might also soon have to take a semester break at Nana. Interesting times ahead for 2016.

[trogers]

The banks are to blame for a lot of this, very hard for average Thai's to obtain a loan even if ever so small.

The ones who are benifiting off the poor are scum they know they can offer lower interest but greed is what it is all about.

I'm not qualified or inclined to assign "blame" on any issue, particularly one such as this. I do agree that greed and poor fiscal management has a part in this situation.

"There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means".

​- Calvin Coolidge

A man who lives within his means is lacking in imagination, Oscar Wilde

What did Oscar died from?

[phycokiller]

dont really get this altho its often in the news here. people take out loans all over the planet and theres always a few that that cant pay them back

[aussieinthailand]

All from the "populist" junk from Peau Thai gov with their fantasy schemes , first car and rice.the gullibility of uneducated masses

Yeah sorry mate but I think you may need to have another look at just who owes the money and why.

As for "populist" junk from (Peau Thai) P/T "gov with their fancy schemes, first car and rice the gullibility of uneducated masses"

Populist policies are mostly why governments do the world over, that's how they get elected,

I would guess that most of the debt owed by people is not from "uneducated masses" but rather educated people with the have it now, pay for it latter.

I think you would be lucky to find 10 in a 1,000 teachers/government workers that are not in debt, which has nothing to do with PT gov or "fancy schemes", It's just a matter of a few things and that is, poor financial skills, lifestyle choices, keeping up with the joneses, and a look at me I'm good attitude, etc.

[Mister Fixit]

Not news - already done here - http://tinyurl.com/j6dlz7h

[slipperylobster]

Not to mention the gambling away of money to non-government supported lotteries.

The common denominator here in my village is that people are waiting to win the lottery so they can make a payment on their debts....and actually believe in the sustainability of this method. As I have mentioned in another thread....every single person that we have talked to has pawned their property away. Nobody actually holds the Chanote on their property. They will show only copies of the Chanote. Moneylenders are holding the real Chanotes.

Like a previous poster, we have been approached for assistance. I would gladly loan the value of their property with no interest charged, as long as my wife legally held the Chanote. We were thinking we could help lots of her relatives this way. Basically, we would loan the value of the property, hold the paper...and put a knock down house on the property (to be removed when money is repaid (no interest). It works for us..and would work for them. As soon as one loan was repayed, we could move the knockdown to the next property and do another loan. Problem is...nobody..not even one...has the Chanote. Also, the same debt will come back to them in a few months, as they will run short of money soon.

Edited December 26, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Nobb]

i received a bad debt that i am about to not pay because of the bad interest loan. Where do i go to get help?