10,000 Retired Teachers to be rehired in Thailand Due to Teacher Shortage

[simon43]

Try explaining the difference in meaning of the word 'rubber' between the UK and the US

I think I better pass on explaining the difference to my class of 7-year olds

[Andster 68]

Try explaining the difference in meaning of the word 'rubber' between the UK and the US

I think I better pass on explaining the difference to my class of 7-year olds

In America "rubber" is very long lasting chewing gum and in England it's best out of three in the card game Bridge, is it not?

[Andster 68]

I read many comments about people complaining about the inability of Thai teachers to model native-like pronunciation and/or to use acceptable English spelling, grammar, or syntax in the classroom.

May I suggest that we shift that paradigm a little towards the sad state of the English spelling system and the lack of institutions to manage it, as a cause for the crisis. It is not exactly a secret that English spelling is and has been horrendously irregular, unsystematic, unphonemic/unphonetic for centuries, and that it has and has had an incomplete alphabet for centuries AND that no one (or a very few number of people) or no institution has been willing or has been able to fix it. Or is it complacency? No matter what, it could use a major reform.

With an extrapolated 1/2 or 1/3 of its lexicon needing a serious revamp, the English lexicon is full of misspellings, of errors, of flaws that cause extreme hardships to whoever wants to master spelling and/or pronunciation of the English language. The situation is so dire that many words are often pronounced in different manners depending on the English dialect that one uses or has learned (which is easily understood as the spelling system does not offer a reliable way to know how one should pronounce a word or should spell it).

What do native-English speakers expect (or the Commonwealth leaders)? That non-native speakers will magically be able to master English like non-native speakers can master Finnish or Italian? First, non native speakers do not have the luxury of 4 or 5 years of preschool modeling at home during which time the brain and vocal chords masters the phonetic elements of the English language. At the same time, it is not exactly a secret either that English-speakers struggle with the spelling of the language because of its inadequacies just as non-native speakers can. But, the truth is that this situation suits a lot of English-speakers, just like it suits people of a certain class who have mastered the complexity of anything, which is often very artificially set or made to be to give them an edge. I don't foresee a paradigm shift. a moment of reckoning, of acceptance of responsibility taken place anytime soon, as a result, since this dysfunctional situation serves the interest of the native-speakers who become the de facto experts. However, could we please--at the very least-- be fair and shift and assign the blame where it needs to be, dare I say ... lie. Or is it lay?

It's "taking" surely, not "taken". Lol

[tonray]

I read many comments about people complaining about the inability of Thai teachers to model native-like pronunciation and/or to use acceptable English spelling, grammar, or syntax in the classroom.

May I suggest that we shift that paradigm a little towards the sad state of the English spelling system and the lack of institutions to manage it, as a cause for the crisis. It is not exactly a secret that English spelling is and has been horrendously irregular, unsystematic, unphonemic/unphonetic for centuries, and that it has and has had an incomplete alphabet for centuries AND that no one (or a very few number of people) or no institution has been willing or has been able to fix it. Or is it complacency? No matter what, it could use a major reform.

With an extrapolated 1/2 or 1/3 of its lexicon needing a serious revamp, the English lexicon is full of misspellings, of errors, of flaws that cause extreme hardships to whoever wants to master spelling and/or pronunciation of the English language. The situation is so dire that many words are often pronounced in different manners depending on the English dialect that one uses or has learned (which is easily understood as the spelling system does not offer a reliable way to know how one should pronounce a word or should spell it).

What do native-English speakers expect (or the Commonwealth leaders)? That non-native speakers will magically be able to master English like non-native speakers can master Finnish or Italian? First, non native speakers do not have the luxury of 4 or 5 years of preschool modeling at home during which time the brain and vocal chords masters the phonetic elements of the English language. At the same time, it is not exactly a secret either that English-speakers struggle with the spelling of the language because of its inadequacies just as non-native speakers can. But, the truth is that this situation suits a lot of English-speakers, just like it suits people of a certain class who have mastered the complexity of anything, which is often very artificially set or made to be to give them an edge. I don't foresee a paradigm shift. a moment of reckoning, of acceptance of responsibility taken place anytime soon, as a result, since this dysfunctional situation serves the interest of the native-speakers who become the de facto experts. However, could we please--at the very least-- be fair and shift and assign the blame where it needs to be, dare I say ... lie. Or is it lay?

It's "taking" surely, not "taken". Lol

Ok...are we finally 'Finnished" with this topic ?

[falangjim]

You really sure those foreign "teachers" were any better than these trained teachers?

Some maybe but I've met a number of foreign chancers who were clueless when it came to meeting the needs of their students.

Did you read the article? It's about Thai teachers coming out of retirement. I'm not sure you should call foreign teachers clueless when it's clear you can't understand a simple on-line article.

[kaorop]

Try explaining the difference in meaning of the word 'rubber' between the UK and the US

I think I better pass on explaining the difference to my class of 7-year olds

In America "rubber" is very long lasting chewing gum and in England it's best out of three in the card game Bridge, is it not?

You just came to throw a spanner in the words, nice one,

[Andster 68]

Try explaining the difference in meaning of the word 'rubber' between the UK and the US

I think I better pass on explaining the difference to my class of 7-year olds

In America "rubber" is very long lasting chewing gum and in England it's best out of three in the card game Bridge, is it not?

You just came to throw a spanner in the words, nice one,

Actually when I first read the rubber comment I thought Sinmon43 was referring to the difficulty Thais often have pronouncing their Rs and Ls.

Ala The Thai restaurant joke:

Waiter: How is your food kap, aroi mai?

Customer: This chicken's rubbery!

Waiter: Thanks velly much!

Boom boom!

[tonray]

Some months later i got email from the director but in very bad english. I corrected her english and wrote "this was lesson one" without any answer from me.

Never heard of them again haha.

You won't get hired in any country by being rude to the boss.

Some perspective on where you really are in the pecking order wouldn't go astray.

If the email was in very bad English....the director must have been using foul language. Perhaps he should have only corrected him had he used very poor English.

[Bluespunk]

You really sure those foreign "teachers" were any better than these trained teachers?

Some maybe but I've met a number of foreign chancers who were clueless when it came to meeting the needs of their students.

I'll bet my shirt that any English foreign "chancer" is going to be better than the best Thaiglish teacher.

I understand Next have a nice line in shirts, just a bit of advice for when you go shopping for your new one.

[Bluespunk]

You really sure those foreign "teachers" were any better than these trained teachers?

Some maybe but I've met a number of foreign chancers who were clueless when it came to meeting the needs of their students.

Did you read the article? It's about Thai teachers coming out of retirement. I'm not sure you should call foreign teachers clueless when it's clear you can't understand a simple on-line article.

Did you bother to read the post I responded too? Duh!

[Brit_Doggie]

Desperately wannabe be a teacher ready to start employment no degrees not ever taught before except my kids on how to lie steal and be loved by anyone will work for 20k per month I teach thai kids the real way of life.

[z42]

The devil you know hey.... I had to laugh at this revelation though, and what a welcome laugh too. I've seen a few of these relics in action, even spoke to a few of my students and their personal reviews are generally one of despair.. So what part of the reform does this fall under I wonder

[Thian]

Some months later i got email from the director but in very bad english. I corrected her english and wrote "this was lesson one" without any answer from me.

Never heard of them again haha.

You won't get hired in any country by being rude to the boss.

Some perspective on where you really are in the pecking order wouldn't go astray.

That's fine with me, i won't work for a salary which is half of the minimum in my homecountry.

Also i think it's quite unpolite to think you can just walk to any farang on the street and think he wants to be a teacher at your daughters scool , and even more to think i'll work for a salary under 1000 euro a month. The person who asked me knows where i live, can't afford that from a teacher's salary mate.

Anyway i just wanted to bargain about salary for fun and then see how far i can go, i like the bargaining game and they always ask me double price. I wanted to play the same game (for fun only) and tell them in my homecountry i would make 3-400.000 baht a month as a teacher without contract (which is true).

They didn't play the game though or maybe i played it too rude. Who cares?

The point is they asked me for the job without knowing anything about me, only my looks. I understand that they don't prefer an old fat bald farang as a teacher but if you want more then of course the price goes up right? That's how it works in Thailand. Stunners at Nana also cost more and do the same job.

[puukao]

i offer 100 backpackers 10,000 baht a month to "teach".......they ask for 11,000, and i tell them i have 100's who will work for 10k

they accept 10k.

English teachers in Thailand have no value.......so just a commodity.

can of coke = can of coke. you pick the machine that is the cheapest......sometimes you get a stale coke, ah.....whatever.

[jerojero]

That will fix the Education system for sure! Old farts from the 50's teaching youth now lead by social media.

[Bluespunk]

You really sure those foreign "teachers" were any better than these trained teachers?

Some maybe but I've met a number of foreign chancers who were clueless when it came to meeting the needs of their students.

Did you read the article? It's about Thai teachers coming out of retirement. I'm not sure you should call foreign teachers clueless when it's clear you can't understand a simple on-line article.

Did you bother to read the post I responded too? Duh!

Still waiting on your response.......too confusing a question for you.

[samsensam]

You really sure those foreign "teachers" were any better than these trained teachers?

Some maybe but I've met a number of foreign chancers who were clueless when it came to meeting the needs of their students.

I agree with you. I have met some "teachers" here who had no idea of basic grammar.

I don't think age really matters. I know a guy who is 75 and still very strong and healthy and teaches English at a university.

Apart from that, I read in the Bangkok Post that these retired teachers would be paid 15,000 baht a month on top of their pension. That's not a bad deal for them.

I have been teaching at a government school for 20 years and my basic salary is 19.800 baht.

The problem is that many (not all) of the Thai teachers will still concentrate on grammar, syntax and so on, instead of actual communication as they, themselves cannot SPEAK English.

if thai teachers concentrate on grammar how come the majority of thai english speakers cant use, for example: articles, plurals, the third person, past simple and present continuous? all of which you would learn A1

they should employ qualified, and if possible experienced, foreign efl teachers through properly managed and accountable recruitment/immigration systems

[Langsuan Man]

More teachers are not needed and we all know it

What is needed is a complete revamp of the teaching methods employed in this country, rote learning is not education, and bringing in those who championed it during their careers surely is not the solution

The Thai education system is no different than any of the other government run institutions in this country

Corruption, cronyism, incompetence, and institutionally incapable of change

[petedk]

You really sure those foreign "teachers" were any better than these trained teachers?

Some maybe but I've met a number of foreign chancers who were clueless when it came to meeting the needs of their students.

I agree with you. I have met some "teachers" here who had no idea of basic grammar.

I don't think age really matters. I know a guy who is 75 and still very strong and healthy and teaches English at a university.

Apart from that, I read in the Bangkok Post that these retired teachers would be paid 15,000 baht a month on top of their pension. That's not a bad deal for them.

I have been teaching at a government school for 20 years and my basic salary is 19.800 baht.

The problem is that many (not all) of the Thai teachers will still concentrate on grammar, syntax and so on, instead of actual communication as they, themselves cannot SPEAK English.

Not trying to be plucky...but why do you work for 19,800 baht per month ? I know you said basic salary but is there some other reason you would work for 40 % less than someone fresh off the boat ?

Yes there is a little extra. 9,000 housing and any overtime. Maybe I can get 35,000 a month.

Why do I stay here?

Well when I started 28,000 a month wasn't too bad.

Sometimes I wanted to change, but was always told "wait, you will get a salary increase." That "salary increase" never came.

I waited too long. No one wants a teacher over 40 years of age. So basically I am stuck here.

So how much do "people fresh off the boat earn"? We have a guy here with PhD in education and he gets about 4,000 baht more than me. He is happy with the job as he is 62 and couldn't find a job elsewhere.

Edited December 28, 2015 by petedk

[petedk]

You really sure those foreign "teachers" were any better than these trained teachers?

Some maybe but I've met a number of foreign chancers who were clueless when it came to meeting the needs of their students.

I agree with you. I have met some "teachers" here who had no idea of basic grammar.

I don't think age really matters. I know a guy who is 75 and still very strong and healthy and teaches English at a university.

Apart from that, I read in the Bangkok Post that these retired teachers would be paid 15,000 baht a month on top of their pension. That's not a bad deal for them.

I have been teaching at a government school for 20 years and my basic salary is 19.800 baht.

The problem is that many (not all) of the Thai teachers will still concentrate on grammar, syntax and so on, instead of actual communication as they, themselves cannot SPEAK English.

if thai teachers concentrate on grammar how come the majority of thai english speakers cant use, for example: articles, plurals, the third person, past simple and present continuous? all of which you would learn A1

they should employ qualified, and if possible experienced, foreign efl teachers through properly managed and accountable recruitment/immigration systems

I see your point, but that isn't the grammar they concentrate on.

I often help Thai teachers by proofreading their exams and most of the questions seem to be in the way of "Underline the adverbial clause in the sentence."

Underline the "noun phrase in the sentence." and so on.

These sentences also use very complicated academic vocabulary that I am sure the studemts don't understand. Hey but who cares as long as they can underline the adverbial phrase.

I once tried a whole test written by one of the teachers and I was quite surprised. I really wasn't sure about some of the answers.

Yes, the basic grammar is crap, with articles missing, wrong tenses and so on.

[kannot]

i hope they can pass on their lifelong skills of non critical thinking and lower the standard even further

[EnlightenedAtheist]

. I don't foresee a paradigm shift. a moment of reckoning, of acceptance of responsibility taken place anytime soon, as a result, since this dysfunctional situation serves the interest of the native-speakers who become the de facto experts.

It's "taking" surely, not "taken". Lol

Thank you for your reply. You are correct. However, allow me to be amused and be skeptical about your motives. I write an exposé which is hundreds of words long about the English language plagued with hundreds of thousands of misspelled words (1/2 a million errors) and you reply with just 6 words focussing (or do you prefer focusing*) on 1 error (which most would qualify as an oversight in view of a post of several hundreds of words that is nearly flawless). SURELY, it would be hard for anyone, me included, to make any error when writing 6 words? LOL So, what is your point, exactly? But, you are correct, you found one error. Congratulations!

So, now that we have looked at the minutiae of one small error, do you have anything interesting, anything of substance about the whole matter or the hundreds of thousands of spelling errors in the English language that you seem quite okay with, that you seem quite happy to leave out, oddly, for others to deal with? Why does 1 error matters to you, but 1/2 a million of errors do not seem to matter? Allow ME to be skeptical and amused! 1/2 a million of errors do matter and explains the great difficulty that many people have learning and teaching English. SURELY, fixing 1/2 a million errors is much harder! LOL

* http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-focussed-or-focused/ (Surely, the future of English would be more perfect if those silly rules were gone!)

[Bluespunk]

.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Bluespunk

[beano2274]

My MIL is one of those who retired at the end of last year, she jogs miles everyday, loves working with kids, used to pick the kids up and take them to school, I think she would love the opportunity to go back to teaching but only part time. She taught Thai language so no risk to those out there who pretend or think you can teach English.

[Covertjay]

Those older teachers were education graduates unlike many new hires who now only need to graduate in the subject they teach. Thus, many younger teachers have no background in pedagogy or classroom management let alone pastoral care. Many of the old dears I worked with a decade or more ago are sorely missed by me, students and the schools. I think it's a good stop gap measure.

[Andster 68]

. I don't foresee a paradigm shift. a moment of reckoning, of acceptance of responsibility taken place anytime soon, as a result, since this dysfunctional situation serves the interest of the native-speakers who become the de facto experts.

It's "taking" surely, not "taken". Lol

Thank you for your reply. You are correct. However, allow me to be amused and be skeptical about your motives. I write an exposé which is hundreds of words long about the English language plagued with hundreds of thousands of misspelled words (1/2 a million errors) and you reply with just 6 words focussing (or do you prefer focusing*) on 1 error (which most would qualify as an oversight in view of a post of several hundreds of words that is nearly flawless). SURELY, it would be hard for anyone, me included, to make any error when writing 6 words? LOL So, what is your point, exactly? But, you are correct, you found one error. Congratulations!

So, now that we have looked at the minutiae of one small error, do you have anything interesting, anything of substance about the whole matter or the hundreds of thousands of spelling errors in the English language that you seem quite okay with, that you seem quite happy to leave out, oddly, for others to deal with? Why does 1 error matters to you, but 1/2 a million of errors do not seem to matter? Allow ME to be skeptical and amused! 1/2 a million of errors do matter and explains the great difficulty that many people have learning and teaching English. SURELY, fixing 1/2 a million errors is much harder! LOL

* http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-focussed-or-focused/ (Surely, the future of English would be more perfect if those silly rules were gone!)

The motive behind my comment was indeed to give you some amusement and to emphasize the fact that I had read it thoroughly, which is what your post deserved. No need to be skeptical. It was a great post you made. I personally enjoyed that particular sentence because it contained "paradigm shift", "dysfunctional situation" and "de facto experts". I am from a working class background and where I come from people would generally remark that one (somebody) using such a sentence had "swallowed a dictionary". That's why I found it whimsical that you had made such a basic error in the same sentence. I Thought you might too and it seems I was right. Bloody hell, it's a damn good job I didn't mention the fact that you followed a full stop without a capital letter. 555, you see I'm doing it again. And for god's sake please don't pick me up on my grammar, I know it's crap! Cheerio, and keep up the good posts, I enjoy them.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

. I don't foresee a paradigm shift. a moment of reckoning, of acceptance of responsibility taken place anytime soon, as a result, since this dysfunctional situation serves the interest of the native-speakers who become the de facto experts.

It's "taking" surely, not "taken". Lol

Thank you for your reply. You are correct. However, allow me to be amused and be skeptical about your motives. I write an exposé which is hundreds of words long about the English language plagued with hundreds of thousands of misspelled words (1/2 a million errors) and you reply with just 6 words focussing (or do you prefer focusing*) on 1 error (which most would qualify as an oversight in view of a post of several hundreds of words that is nearly flawless). SURELY, it would be hard for anyone, me included, to make any error when writing 6 words? LOL So, what is your point, exactly? But, you are correct, you found one error. Congratulations!

So, now that we have looked at the minutiae of one small error, do you have anything interesting, anything of substance about the whole matter or the hundreds of thousands of spelling errors in the English language that you seem quite okay with, that you seem quite happy to leave out, oddly, for others to deal with? Why does 1 error matters to you, but 1/2 a million of errors do not seem to matter? Allow ME to be skeptical and amused! 1/2 a million of errors do matter and explains the great difficulty that many people have learning and teaching English. SURELY, fixing 1/2 a million errors is much harder! LOL

* http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-focussed-or-focused/ (Surely, the future of English would be more perfect if those silly rules were gone!)

The motive behind my comment was indeed to give you some amusement and to emphasize the fact that I had read it thoroughly, which is what your post deserved. No need to be skeptical. It was a great post you made. I personally enjoyed that particular sentence because it contained "paradigm shift", "dysfunctional situation" and "de facto experts". I am from a working class background and where I come from people would generally remark that one (somebody) using such a sentence had "swallowed a dictionary". That's why I found it whimsical that you had made such a basic error in the same sentence. I Thought you might too and it seems I was right. Bloody hell, it's a damn good job I didn't mention the fact that you followed a full stop without a capital letter. 555, you see I'm doing it again. And for god's sake please don't pick me up on my grammar, I know it's crap! Cheerio, and keep up the good posts, I enjoy them.

Thank you for giving me more to work with this time. lol

You are right. I should give you some credit for reading the original post from start to ... Finnish (as one fellow cleverly punned). Nowadays, it seems that people's attention span is not longer than two sentences long. lol However, I am sure there are plenty of expats with time to kill in LOS (me included). I am one of those now. lol You too. lol

I appreciate your honesty with respect to my use of words. As a European raised partly in North America, I understand that it is of poor taste to use words that the common folks might never use, might not want to use, or might not know. In Europe, normal use of words by a professional might raise flags as to the competence and the credibility of the person. It is interesting that this valuable and easy way to filter out the scammers and the wannabees has been devalued. On the other hand, this democratization in NA cultures does help with relaxing and ease the interactions that people of many backgrounds might have, which you will not find in European cultures. I am torn as to which is best, but then I shall, no, I should be consistent with my thesis that substance is more important than form. Anyone nowadays can learn these words and sound competent. A better test of competence should be about the knowledge of processes, methodology, best practice procedures,...

Since I am a professional trained and experienced in the field of analyzing errors, allow me to enlighten you on your finding. I hope you won't be offended if I seem to show off. I will try hard to watch my word usage. lol So, you find the errors that I make whimsical, indicating that you think that they are puzzling. I admire your 'indirect" curiosity. Maybe you could have asked a direct question and I would have answered instead of skirting the issue. However, this might be your communication style, a cultural trait. You are forgiven. lol Forgive me too for the freudian and spitzerian analysis. I am a product of my university training and this is my trait and perhaps this is also influenced by my culture. But, let's go back to the analysis. I think a more careful and fair analysis would show that my post is full of correct usage and it should have lead you to reach a different conclusion, namely that I might have been rushed, that I might not have proofread the text I wrote thoroughly enough, that ... Maybe you are playing with me. I will give you that saving face possibility. However, let me carry on with my analysis. Context is everything. Maybe I am a husband whose task was to take care of a crying baby, but who had to write on this topic? Maybe I just travelled and I am jet-lagged? Maybe I left an error or two to control the whole interaction? Maybe I have an early onset of dementia? Simple answers are sometimes erroneous. Let me analyze your replies. In both instances, you focussed essentially on the form of the posts, not the substance. You do state that you found the post "great", but it is never mentioned that you supported the main thesis. Again, in view of the hundreds of thousands of errors in the English spelling system, it is rather odd that you are not even raising any concern about those, but like to highlight a missing capital or an odd usage. (BTW, you could have made the leap between the relaxed form of "taking", as in " takin' '' and the form I used, because native speakers do not pronounce the "ing" as "ing", but as "un". So, ironically, this error demonstrates the issue that I raise.) Again, I am baffled by the incongruous response that you have about errors. Some are fine; others are "whimsical".

What is not "whimsical" is the hardships that these english spelling errors create for non-native learners and teachers (native learners are troubled by those too, btw), for systems, for countries, for the world. Learning to read and write English would be much more easily attainable if the English spelling system was not fraught with so many errors. That is the truth. There would be fewer or no comments about the seemingly incompetence of Thai teachers and learners. It would be sad for all of those who like to think that they are so smart when, in fact, the dire nature of the English spelling system demonstrates that they should be more humble about the whole matter. But, maybe, you even agree with me. Maybe it is taboo to agree with such an analysis. Still, it might be rather troubling for native-speakers who have been fed the idea that English is the most incredible language ever created that it is a mess, that it is highly flawed, that it is the cause of the problems, that it needs to be fixed. We know how many Americans and Brits feel about how incredibly importance need that their cultures have offered to the development of the world.

[Andster 68]

Thank you for giving me more to work with this time. lol

You are right. I should give you some credit for reading the original post from start to ... Finnish (as one fellow cleverly punned). Nowadays, it seems that people's attention span is not longer than two sentences long. lol However, I am sure there are plenty of expats with time to kill in LOS (me included). I am one of those now. lol You too. lol

I appreciate your honesty with respect to my use of words. As a European raised partly in North America, I understand that it is of poor taste to use words that the common folks might never use, might not want to use, or might not know. In Europe, normal use of words by a professional might raise flags as to the competence and the credibility of the person. It is interesting that this valuable and easy way to filter out the scammers and the wannabees has been devalued. On the other hand, this democratization in NA cultures does help with relaxing and ease the interactions that people of many backgrounds might have, which you will not find in European cultures. I am torn as to which is best, but then I shall, no, I should be consistent with my thesis that substance is more important than form. Anyone nowadays can learn these words and sound competent. A better test of competence should be about the knowledge of processes, methodology, best practice procedures,...

Since I am a professional trained and experienced in the field of analyzing errors, allow me to enlighten you on your finding. I hope you won't be offended if I seem to show off. I will try hard to watch my word usage. lol So, you find the errors that I make whimsical, indicating that you think that they are puzzling. I admire your 'indirect" curiosity. Maybe you could have asked a direct question and I would have answered instead of skirting the issue. However, this might be your communication style, a cultural trait. You are forgiven. lol Forgive me too for the freudian and spitzerian analysis. I am a product of my university training and this is my trait and perhaps this is also influenced by my culture. But, let's go back to the analysis. I think a more careful and fair analysis would show that my post is full of correct usage and it should have lead you to reach a different conclusion, namely that I might have been rushed, that I might not have proofread the text I wrote thoroughly enough, that ... Maybe you are playing with me. I will give you that saving face possibility. However, let me carry on with my analysis. Context is everything. Maybe I am a husband whose task was to take care of a crying baby, but who had to write on this topic? Maybe I just travelled and I am jet-lagged? Maybe I left an error or two to control the whole interaction? Maybe I have an early onset of dementia? Simple answers are sometimes erroneous. Let me analyze your replies. In both instances, you focussed essentially on the form of the posts, not the substance. You do state that you found the post "great", but it is never mentioned that you supported the main thesis. Again, in view of the hundreds of thousands of errors in the English spelling system, it is rather odd that you are not even raising any concern about those, but like to highlight a missing capital or an odd usage. (BTW, you could have made the leap between the relaxed form of "taking", as in " takin' '' and the form I used, because native speakers do not pronounce the "ing" as "ing", but as "un". So, ironically, this error demonstrates the issue that I raise.) Again, I am baffled by the incongruous response that you have about errors. Some are fine; others are "whimsical".

What is not "whimsical" is the hardships that these english spelling errors create for non-native learners and teachers (native learners are troubled by those too, btw), for systems, for countries, for the world. Learning to read and write English would be much more easily attainable if the English spelling system was not fraught with so many errors. That is the truth. There would be fewer or no comments about the seemingly incompetence of Thai teachers and learners. It would be sad for all of those who like to think that they are so smart when, in fact, the dire nature of the English spelling system demonstrates that they should be more humble about the whole matter. But, maybe, you even agree with me. Maybe it is taboo to agree with such an analysis. Still, it might be rather troubling for native-speakers who have been fed the idea that English is the most incredible language ever created that it is a mess, that it is highly flawed, that it is the cause of the problems, that it needs to be fixed. We know how many Americans and Brits feel about how incredibly importance need that their cultures have offered to the development of the world.

Actually I'm in West Africa at the moment, but I'll be back in Bangkok soon.

I have a BA Hons from a UK University and I'm very proud of that, it was hard work. They taught us to say as much as possible in as few words as possible.

Yes, I agree English is very hard to learn and often over complicated. I found this out the hard way when I taught it for ten years in Thailand.

One thing I did learn when teaching in Thailand was that being a good teacher is undervalued and the really good Thai teachers go unrewarded for their efforts. In my time as a teacher I came across countless young Thai teachers who were fantastic at speaking, writing and teaching English. Unfortunately 99% of them were looking for other careers.

The fact that English is hard should not mean that we have to change it but actually reward people who have taken the time to learn it properly and teach it well. I have always thought that sorting the Thai education system out wouldn't be that difficult. If the government were to pay Thai teachers a decent salary they would hold onto their best teachers. Students would then aspire to want the same career path.

Just 4 years ago the Motor Cycle taxi driver that I ate noodles with at lunch time earned more money than the English teachers at my school. So what do you think all the boys in school wanted to do when they left? English teacher? Not a chance.

Pay them well and within a few years you'll have Thais teaching English in UK Universities. If there is money in it, they 'will' excel.

Personally I don't dwell on my culture or language being dominant in the world. It happened a long time ago, before I was born. I don't have any airs of being or being part of anything superior, I never have and never will have. I wasn't brought up to think or behave like that. The world is just one big village to me.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

Thank you for giving me more to work with this time. lol

You are right. I should give you some credit for reading the original post from start to ... Finnish (as one fellow cleverly punned). Nowadays, it seems that people's attention span is not longer than two sentences long. lol However, I am sure there are plenty of expats with time to kill in LOS (me included). I am one of those now. lol You too. lol

I appreciate your honesty with respect to my use of words. As a European raised partly in North America, I understand that it is of poor taste to use words that the common folks might never use, might not want to use, or might not know. In Europe, normal use of words by a professional might raise flags as to the competence and the credibility of the person. It is interesting that this valuable and easy way to filter out the scammers and the wannabees has been devalued. On the other hand, this democratization in NA cultures does help with relaxing and ease the interactions that people of many backgrounds might have, which you will not find in European cultures. I am torn as to which is best, but then I shall, no, I should be consistent with my thesis that substance is more important than form. Anyone nowadays can learn these words and sound competent. A better test of competence should be about the knowledge of processes, methodology, best practice procedures,...

Since I am a professional trained and experienced in the field of analyzing errors, allow me to enlighten you on your finding. I hope you won't be offended if I seem to show off. I will try hard to watch my word usage. lol So, you find the errors that I make whimsical, indicating that you think that they are puzzling. I admire your 'indirect" curiosity. Maybe you could have asked a direct question and I would have answered instead of skirting the issue. However, this might be your communication style, a cultural trait. You are forgiven. lol Forgive me too for the freudian and spitzerian analysis. I am a product of my university training and this is my trait and perhaps this is also influenced by my culture. But, let's go back to the analysis. I think a more careful and fair analysis would show that my post is full of correct usage and it should have lead you to reach a different conclusion, namely that I might have been rushed, that I might not have proofread the text I wrote thoroughly enough, that ... Maybe you are playing with me. I will give you that saving face possibility. However, let me carry on with my analysis. Context is everything. Maybe I am a husband whose task was to take care of a crying baby, but who had to write on this topic? Maybe I just travelled and I am jet-lagged? Maybe I left an error or two to control the whole interaction? Maybe I have an early onset of dementia? Simple answers are sometimes erroneous. Let me analyze your replies. In both instances, you focussed essentially on the form of the posts, not the substance. You do state that you found the post "great", but it is never mentioned that you supported the main thesis. Again, in view of the hundreds of thousands of errors in the English spelling system, it is rather odd that you are not even raising any concern about those, but like to highlight a missing capital or an odd usage. (BTW, you could have made the leap between the relaxed form of "taking", as in " takin' '' and the form I used, because native speakers do not pronounce the "ing" as "ing", but as "un". So, ironically, this error demonstrates the issue that I raise.) Again, I am baffled by the incongruous response that you have about errors. Some are fine; others are "whimsical".

What is not "whimsical" is the hardships that these english spelling errors create for non-native learners and teachers (native learners are troubled by those too, btw), for systems, for countries, for the world. Learning to read and write English would be much more easily attainable if the English spelling system was not fraught with so many errors. That is the truth. There would be fewer or no comments about the seemingly incompetence of Thai teachers and learners. It would be sad for all of those who like to think that they are so smart when, in fact, the dire nature of the English spelling system demonstrates that they should be more humble about the whole matter. But, maybe, you even agree with me. Maybe it is taboo to agree with such an analysis. Still, it might be rather troubling for native-speakers who have been fed the idea that English is the most incredible language ever created that it is a mess, that it is highly flawed, that it is the cause of the problems, that it needs to be fixed. We know how many Americans and Brits feel about how incredibly importance need that their cultures have offered to the development of the world.

Actually I'm in West Africa at the moment, but I'll be back in Bangkok soon.

I have a BA Hons from a UK University and I'm very proud of that, it was hard work. They taught us to say as much as possible in as few words as possible.

Yes, I agree English is very hard to learn and often over complicated. I found this out the hard way when I taught it for ten years in Thailand.

One thing I did learn when teaching in Thailand was that being a good teacher is undervalued and the really good Thai teachers go unrewarded for their efforts. In my time as a teacher I came across countless young Thai teachers who were fantastic at speaking, writing and teaching English. Unfortunately 99% of them were looking for other careers.

The fact that English is hard should not mean that we have to change it but actually reward people who have taken the time to learn it properly and teach it well. I have always thought that sorting the Thai education system out wouldn't be that difficult. If the government were to pay Thai teachers a decent salary they would hold onto their best teachers. Students would then aspire to want the same career path.

Just 4 years ago the Motor Cycle taxi driver that I ate noodles with at lunch time earned more money than the English teachers at my school. So what do you think all the boys in school wanted to do when they left? English teacher? Not a chance.

Pay them well and within a few years you'll have Thais teaching English in UK Universities. If there is money in it, they 'will' excel.

Personally I don't dwell on my culture or language being dominant in the world. It happened a long time ago, before I was born. I don't have any airs of being or being part of anything superior, I never have and never will have. I wasn't brought up to think or behave like that. The world is just one big village to me.

True about the undervaluation of teaching in Thailand. The top people looking to evaluate are generally incompetent, but got there by way of connection.The rich go abroad, get those top jobs. The elite don't want to make it better for the competition and probably don't want competition considering it is not cheap to get an education abroad. Not sure if there is a plan somewhere, but it sure feels like there is one.

Yes, extra money will give the extra incentives for some, but I know of a friend of my wife who is an English teacher (Thai) and she NEVER wants to practice or never asks any questions. She surely doesn't want to try to speak with me. When you have no reliable way to find out how words are pronounced, how do you expect people to feel speaking it. The losing face might make things ever worst.

Still, I am not sure at all that leaving the English language's incredible number of flaws in is acceptable, but most native-speakers are not interested in making things easier. You do not feel it is the right path. We get the usual notion that the issue is poor teaching or poor learning. Nice try to deflect the issue. Mind you, the lack of an organization to harass exacerbates the issue. Many people can cope with complexities, but a chaotic mess demands a degree of memorization that puts off a lot of people. There is no denying that it will annoy people. Learning (and teaching) English is like being in a dysfunctional relationship where one does not know whether one is going to be hit or going to be complimented. English sucks, not the Thai teachers or the Thai students. It sucks because it has a erratic spelling system that is unpredictable. At the same time, people are not likely to support a reform. It might take an asteroid before they see the forest before the trees. And that is being optimistic.

Thank you for clarifying your feelings and your view of the world. Good to read.

I have no issue with brevity, but I was talking about the lazy and cheap 6-words reply you offered. Mind you, at the time, you did not know I was a professional.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

It sucks because it has a erratic spelling system that is unpredictable. At the same time, people are not likely to support a reform. It might take an asteroid before they see the forest before the trees. And that is being optimistic.

Thank you for clarifying your feelings and your view of the world. Good to read.

I have no issue with brevity, but I was talking about the lazy and cheap 6-words reply you offered. Mind you, at the time, you did not know I was a professional.

edit (for those interested in obfuscating, skirting the underlying issue)

an erratic spelling system

Btw, since I am not being paid to write this, I did not spend 1 second setting up my paragraphs like they should and watch every single aspect of what I wrote, except for the very basic aspects.

Edited January 7, 2016 by EnlightenedAtheist