Thirty days to shore up Thai justice

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Thirty days to shore up Thai justice
The Nation

The appeal period for the Myanmar accused in the Koh Tao case affords a chance to overcome public suspicion

BANGKOK: -- Myanmar commander in chief Senior General Min Aung Hlaing has taken the unusual step of asking Thai authorities to re-examine the case against two Burmese men convicted of rape and murder on Koh Tao, which represents another blow to international confidence in the Thai justice system. It also provides a test for relations between these two countries, at a time when both are engaged in a process of democratic reform.

It is rare for leaders in Nay Pyi Taw to express concern over the fate of citizens who find themselves in trouble abroad. Thailand is home to about three million workers from Myanmar, many of them undocumented migrants, but little attention has been paid to their plight at the hands of our justice system.

So it came as a surprise when General Min wrote to Thai Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan and Supreme Commander Sommai Kaotira over the weekend. He urged a review of the sentencing of the two Myanmar nationals to death for the attack on two British backpackers. The verdict met with widespread anger in Myanmar.

Last Thursday the Samui Provincial Court found Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun guilty of killing Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in September 2014. Witheridge was also sexually violated.

The case had been dogged by controversy, with the accused claiming their confessions were obtained under torture, and renowned forensic pathologist Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand calling into question DNA evidence and police investigative procedures. After the verdict, thousands of protesters besieged the Thai Embassy in Yangon, claiming the convicted men had been made scapegoats.

Migrant workers often have a precarious legal status in Thailand and, as such, find themselves at the mercy of unscrupulous law-enforcers and court officials. This dismal fact only fuels suspicions over the verdict whenever a foreigner is convicted of a serious crime here.

General Min expressed respect for Thailand's judicial process, but stressed the need to avoid a situation in which innocent men might have been wrongly convicted.

Myanmar's top military commander also expressed a belief that justice will be eventually done thanks to the mutual respect and friendly relations between the two countries.

He could have delivered his message in private to Thai top brass, with whom he enjoys friendly relations. That he chose to make his plea public, via his Facebook page and the state-run Global New Light of Myanmar Times, indicates just how seriously Myanmar authorities view this case.

Bangkok must not take the signal from Nay Pyi Taw lightly. Justifications for the verdict offered so far by the Thai Foreign Ministry, the embassy in Yangon, the police and the Samui court have not cooled tempers in Myanmar.

Police spokesman Pol General Dejnarong Sutticharnbancha insisted that the investigation had been fair and transparent and that checks and balances in place meant the public could have confidence in the judicial process.

His words are not enough to restore public faith badly damaged by the police's failure to effectively refute allegations of torture during interrogation and an absence of legal representation for the convicted men during the preliminary stages of the probe.

Samui court spokesman Suebpong Sripongkul has said the death sentence can be appealed and is not a final ruling. The defence team has 30 days in which to launch an appeal. What happens during that period will be crucial to the credibility of the Thai justice system and also to continuing friendly relations with our neighbour to the west.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thirty-days-to-shore-up-Thai-justice-30275841.html


-- The Nation 2015-12-29

[Plutojames88]

Ok plain and simple.

Thai justice was flawed.

Case would have been dismissed in other countries.

One DNA linking semen within victim ( female ) was not kept in the laboratory .

Destroyed so no counter claim could re-examine crucial findings .

The results were inconclusive as well as impossibly completed within normal analysis time.

Outside specialists doubted the results could be obtained in that time period .

No DNA found on murder weapon matching with suspects.

A crucial fact.

Yet over ruled as insignificant .

Hang on ......wait ....no DNA at all?

None .

Then what evidence did they have?

Claims of torture to gain confessions .

Actually no evidence what so ever exists to even suppose they did it.

Just beaten confessions.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Plutojames88

[LostTourist]

Ok plain and simple.

Thai justice was flawed.

Case would have been dismissed in other countries.

One DNA linking semen within victim ( female ) was not kept in the laboratory .

Destroyed so no counter claim could re-examine crucial findings .

The results were inconclusive as well as impossibly completed within normal analysis time.

Outside specialists doubted the results could be obtained in that time period .

No DNA found on murder weapon matching with suspects.

A crucial fact.

Yet over ruled as insignificant .

Hang on ......wait ....no DNA at all?

None .

Then what evidence did they have?

Claims of torture to gain confessions .

Actually no evidence what so ever exists to even suppose they did it.

Just beaten confessions.

Migrant workers often have a precarious legal status in Thailand and, as such, find themselves at the mercy of unscrupulous law-enforcers and court officials.

I don't believe it Thais are 95% Buddhist and Buddhist wouldn't do something like that.

[JLCrab]

As posted on a parallel topic re: Thai Criminal Procedure on Appeals:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881256-koh-tao-suspects-found-guilty-of-murdering-british-backpackers/page-69#entry10245812

[sharecropper]

What is absolutely certain is that the' evidence' and investigative flaws in this case would not have made it to trial in the UK, it would have been furiously and summarily thrown out of court.

[shunter]

It needs to remembered this situation is not going to go away quickly and quietly much to the chagrin of the Thais I am ashamed at the conduct of a certain section of my fellow countrymen..

[EyesWideOpen]

Will take more like thirty years. Thailand relies on natural gas from Myanmar.

If they get angry at Thailand railroading two of their citizens, and shut off the

gas lines, then there will be a different tune being played...

[CP3]

Ok plain and simple.

Thai justice was flawed.

Case would have been dismissed in other countries.

One DNA linking semen within victim ( female ) was not kept in the laboratory .

Destroyed so no counter claim could re-examine crucial findings .

The results were inconclusive as well as impossibly completed within normal analysis time.

Outside specialists doubted the results could be obtained in that time period .

No DNA found on murder weapon matching with suspects.

A crucial fact.

Yet over ruled as insignificant .

Hang on ......wait ....no DNA at all?

None .

Then what evidence did they have?

Claims of torture to gain confessions .

Actually no evidence what so ever exists to even suppose they did it.

Just beaten confessions.

Migrant workers often have a precarious legal status in Thailand and, as such, find themselves at the mercy of unscrupulous law-enforcers and court officials.

I don't believe it Thais are 95% Buddhist and Buddhist wouldn't do something like that.

You have never been to border towns especially Mae Sot.

[greenchair]

Ok plain and simple.

Thai justice was flawed.

Case would have been dismissed in other countries.

One DNA linking semen within victim ( female ) was not kept in the laboratory .

Destroyed so no counter claim could re-examine crucial findings .

The results were inconclusive as well as impossibly completed within normal analysis time.

Outside specialists doubted the results could be obtained in that time period .

No DNA found on murder weapon matching with suspects.

A crucial fact.

Yet over ruled as insignificant .

Hang on ......wait ....no DNA at all?

None .

Then what evidence did they have?

Claims of torture to gain confessions .

Actually no evidence what so ever exists to even suppose they did it.

Just beaten confessions.

Any court has a duty to weigh all of the evidence in a case. Dna by itself is mostly not accepted in courts anymore, as they have found even that can be unreliable. The Thai judge's also said their decision was not based on the confession and had no sway in their decision. I would say the most significant evidence was that they had David's phone and made efforts to conceal that phone. This fact is agreed upon by both the court and the b2 themselves. Secondly by their own admission they were placed directly in the vicinity of the crime at the time of the crime. Then by their own admission went back a 5 o'clock in the morning to retrieve belongings left directly in the vicinity of the crime. All of the evidence must be considered, not just dna or confession. They dug their own hole, when their story became a series of bad luck coincidences that they could not explain.

[Assurancetourix]

I don't believe it Thais are 95% Buddhist and Buddhist wouldn't do something like that.

If thai are bouddhist, I'm the son of the Pope .

Thai aren't bouddhists, they are animists ;

They believe ghosts exist ;

They don't care about other people/animals when on the roads with their vehicles;

....

[Plutojames88]

Ok plain and simple.

Thai justice was flawed.

Case would have been dismissed in other countries.

One DNA linking semen within victim ( female ) was not kept in the laboratory .

Destroyed so no counter claim could re-examine crucial findings .

The results were inconclusive as well as impossibly completed within normal analysis time.

Outside specialists doubted the results could be obtained in that time period .

No DNA found on murder weapon matching with suspects.

A crucial fact.

Yet over ruled as insignificant .

Hang on ......wait ....no DNA at all?

None .

Then what evidence did they have?

Claims of torture to gain confessions .

Actually no evidence what so ever exists to even suppose they did it.

Just beaten confessions.

Any court has a duty to weigh all of the evidence in a case. Dna by itself is mostly not accepted in courts anymore, as they have found even that can be unreliable. The Thai judge's also said their decision was not based on the confession and had no sway in their decision. I would say the most significant evidence was that they had David's phone and made efforts to conceal that phone. This fact is agreed upon by both the court and the b2 themselves. Secondly by their own admission they were placed directly in the vicinity of the crime at the time of the crime. Then by their own admission went back a 5 o'clock in the morning to retrieve belongings left directly in the vicinity of the crime. All of the evidence must be considered, not just dna or confession. They dug their own hole, when their story became a series of bad luck coincidences that they could not explain.

You suppose the police are not corrupt.?

You would be in a minority here.

Explain how they got stitched up?

The judicial did not think it was relevant that CCTV footage showed men fleeing from the area in clothing that was different to that worn by the Myanmar workers that night.

In other words it was not the workers in the footage .

A Thai forensic expert said that DNA evidence from the supposed murder weapon did not match that of the accused. Yet the judge didn't care less

Then you have the terrible comments by the crass Prime Minister, Prayuth Chan-ocha, saying that only ugly women were safe wearing bikinis in Thailand

"The Burmese scrap goats were made to re-enact the killings and many saw the marks from the beatings

One reported quoted as saying . "They were a really pitiful sight. Their bodies had all sorts of bruises""

If you think the judgement was balanced and fair that's indicative of a slanted view perhaps ?

[gandalf12]

If the trail of these men was conducted without prejudice then have a re-trail in another country. Prosecutor and Defender can produce the evidence that convicted them and the world will be happy.

Seems simple to me.I am sure there must be a court in the Hague that would be willing to hear the evidence and pass sentence based on it

[Srikcir]

There is nothing to shore up.

Prayut's Minister of Foreign Affairs just needs to explain "Thainess" to Myanmar officials: Thais do not commit such violent crimes.

[MZurf]

"It also provides a test for relations between these two countries, at a time when both are engaged in a process of democratic reform."

Myanmar; yes. Thailand: you're kidding, right??.

[jaywalker]

Interesting how the Myanmar gov't is the one raising objections instead of the UK gov't.

I have no idea why, just saying..... Any UK folks have any theories?

I can perhaps understand the victims' families accepting things, as they may not be as familiar with the RTP/mafia/corruption in general as expats are, but surely the UK gov't is.

Edited December 29, 2015 by jaywalker

[Richard W]

Interesting how the Myanmar gov't is the one raising objections instead of the UK gov't.

I have no idea why, just saying..... Any UK folks have any theories?

Perhaps the UK is hoping for arms sales to Thailand.

[kiwikeith]

Ok plain and simple.

Thai justice was flawed.

Case would have been dismissed in other countries.

One DNA linking semen within victim ( female ) was not kept in the laboratory .

Destroyed so no counter claim could re-examine crucial findings .

The results were inconclusive as well as impossibly completed within normal analysis time.

Outside specialists doubted the results could be obtained in that time period .

No DNA found on murder weapon matching with suspects.

A crucial fact.

Yet over ruled as insignificant .

Hang on ......wait ....no DNA at all?

None .

Then what evidence did they have?

Claims of torture to gain confessions .

Actually no evidence what so ever exists to even suppose they did it.

Just beaten confessions.

Dr Pornthip discovered DNA on the murder weapon of 2 people.

No trace of that Dna to the B2.

Why aren't the DNA of the 2 persons found on the Hoe being checked against other suspects?

Why was a police commander re posted after saying that these other suspects may be involved???

What hapened to the Lawyer that visited the B2 early on, after their arrest who said he saw marks on the B2, he was dissmissed and silenced.

There is now NO DNA samples available, nor did the defense have access to the lab reports or the opportunity to do independent sampling.

Dr Taupin said it was doubfull that DNA of 3 persons in the police report could be separated in the time police said it was, she also said that the report because of its poor quality with cross outs and corrections which went unexplained would not be acceptable to any court.

Dr Taupin was not allowed to testify, maybe the defences fault??

Defence did not scream loud enough for disclosure of evidence which apparently they were entitled to (correct me if I'm wrong)???

[millwall_fan]

General Min expressed respect for Thailand's judicial process, but stressed the need to avoid a situation in which innocent men might have been wrongly convicted.

Wow! He is being diplomatic

The best way to shore up Thai justice which has taken a battering in this case, is for them to allow the British, who have the DNA of Hannah's rapist, to test both the Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun AND the ex-Ko Tao village headman's son who did a runner from the island in the days following the murders and who was subject to a flawed Thai police DNA test. That would at least allow police to start conducting a proper investigation even accepting that DNA alone is not enough for a conviction.

[tuanku]

both are engaged in a process of democratic reform.

Only one of the two countries mentioned is engaged in democratic reform. What the other is doing is neither democratic nor reform.

[oneday]

"...Bangkok must not take the signal from Nay Pyi Taw lightly..."

Ah, but they already have. The Myanmar general's request has already been summarily dismissed with prejudice.

[bangon04]

"His words are not enough to restore public faith badly damaged by the police's failure"

ain't that the truth.........

and on the subject of "police failure :

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

not everyone has selective memory. Wish the Nation had some more journalistic integrity.

Edited December 29, 2015 by bangon04

[phuketandsee]

Interesting how the Myanmar gov't is the one raising objections instead of the UK gov't.

I have no idea why, just saying..... Any UK folks have any theories?

I can perhaps understand the victims' families accepting things, as they may not be as familiar with the RTP/mafia/corruption in general as expats are, but surely the UK gov't is.

Err, possibly because those convicted are from Myanmar not the UK. Just a theory mind.

[phuketandsee]

Interesting how the Myanmar gov't is the one raising objections instead of the UK gov't.

I have no idea why, just saying..... Any UK folks have any theories?

Perhaps the UK is hoping for arms sales to Thailand.

More likely it has to do with the UK's extraordinary rendition program and the dirty little secrets they, and the US, would rather keep hidden.

[jaywalker]

Interesting how the Myanmar gov't is the one raising objections instead of the UK gov't.

I have no idea why, just saying..... Any UK folks have any theories?

I can perhaps understand the victims' families accepting things, as they may not be as familiar with the RTP/mafia/corruption in general as expats are, but surely the UK gov't is.

Err, possibly because those convicted are from Myanmar not the UK. Just a theory mind.

Err, but the dead victims were from the UK. Just theory. I think.

Need I say more?

Hera ya go, Myanmar has doubts. The UK apparently does not.

WHY?

Edited December 29, 2015 by jaywalker

[gandalf12]

Interesting how the Myanmar gov't is the one raising objections instead of the UK gov't.

I have no idea why, just saying..... Any UK folks have any theories?

I can perhaps understand the victims' families accepting things, as they may not be as familiar with the RTP/mafia/corruption in general as expats are, but surely the UK gov't is.

The UK is quiet probably the family of the deceased are happy so less for the UK to do. The UK tries to do nothing if possible for anyone but the fact that the British nationals involved are dead they wont do a damn thing

[Scouse123]

And in the meantime.......................

This is what will happen. Those boys will be constantly denied bail as they will announce to the world that they are considered a ' flight risk ' whereas Thais would be given bail even in a double murder case.

The appeal procedure will go first to the appeal court and then if they are successful, the prosecutor can appeal to the Supreme court.

This procedure takes YEARS AND YEARS, hopefully in Thai eyes, long enough for everyone to forget and move on.

Don't forget, these boys at age 22 I think?? will sit in a disgusting jail for maybe between 7-10 years EASILY for the appeals process, the jail selected to hold them is full of Muslim terrorists and lunatics from the deep South. It is not a nice place to be even judging by Thailand's lousy international standards of prison care. Only, Cambodia would rank lower in the region and possibly Laos.

Any pressure exerted from Myanmar, will be seen as dabbling in Thailand's ' internal affairs ' and lip service as well as the usual smarmy grins and false limp handshakes alongside a load of wai-ing and smiling nothing will be done.

If the boys were to be cleared in the Supreme court, this would leave the Thais open to a massive financial lawsiut..........We all know if there is one thing Thais hate is giving out money!!............... So, that ain't going to happen.

Well done Thailand as usual.

[elgordo38]

Its really funny that the only time the big wig generals get involved is when the sheeple step out of their traces and start buzzing like angry bees. The Burmese people can flex their political muscle not so much here.

[EyesWideOpen]

Interesting how the Myanmar gov't is the one raising objections instead of the UK gov't.

I have no idea why, just saying..... Any UK folks have any theories?

I can perhaps understand the victims' families accepting things, as they may not be as familiar with the RTP/mafia/corruption in general as expats are, but surely the UK gov't is.

Makes sense to me. If the two being stitched up were American

citizens , America would be screaming bloody murder and

demanding a real trial. Besides

as Myanmar's star is rising and Thailand is falling, could be good

timing to rub Thailand's nose in the dirt a bit.......

Not sure about the UK protecting its citizens. They are being killed

right and left here in Thailand and the UK does not seem to care.

More Brits killed here than any other country in the world.....

Edited December 29, 2015 by EyesWideOpen

[EyesWideOpen]

Its really funny that the only time the big wig generals get involved is when the sheeple step out of their traces and start buzzing like angry bees. The Burmese people can flex their political muscle not so much here.

No need to flex political muscle. Myanmar need only to turn off the

the natural gas pipeline, and in short order Thailand would be

licking the boots of Myanmar and agreeing instantly to a proper

trial. As Russia found out, never underestimate the power of an

economic boycott....