Are well priced Pattaya resale condos selling now, or not?

[Jingthing]

I'm not there yet but it may soon be time to get some amusing opinions from the local people who pose as real estate professionals.

[thaitero]

There is a site called "hipflat" and they list some historic "market stats" of different buildings,,

Whether it is useful or no, i have no idea,, Opinions ?

For examlple VT 1

http://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/view-talay-1

Edited January 4, 2016 by thaitero

[bkk6060]

There is a site called "hipflat" and they list some historic "market stats" of different buildings,,

Whether it is useful or no, i have no idea,, Opinions ?

For examlple VT 1

http://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/view-talay-1

Good example of losing money as the properties depreciated over 8%. Even if you rented it out 365 days you probably lost money.

[KittenKong]

There is a site called "hipflat" and they list some historic "market stats" of different buildings,,

Whether it is useful or no, i have no idea,, Opinions ?

I've been checking that site occasionally for some time. The prices seem to vary a lot for no obvious reason and I dont know how accurate they are.

But any information is better than none, I suppose.

[TheCruncher]

There is a site called "hipflat" and they list some historic "market stats" of different buildings,,

Whether it is useful or no, i have no idea,, Opinions ?

For examlple VT 1

http://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/view-talay-1

Good example of losing money as the properties depreciated over 8%. Even if you rented it out 365 days you probably lost money.

It says depreciated 8.65% from last year, not every year since it was finished, and did you notice that the rent prices increased by 6.54%?

[mcfish]

I've got a friend who's been trying to sell his condo for a few years now. Started at the market price, which is well established as it's a big building with many units. 1 year later, dropped it 10%. Last year, another 10%. Posters all over town, good word of mouth with many friends, etc. No luck. They're not sure what to do now. Maybe another 10%.

I think they are just following the downward trend of condo prices in older buildings. Too many new ones going up. A souring economy (locally and globally). I think next year might be even worse. Tough time to sell. But, if you find the right buyer, it will sell!

I highly recommend using an agent. You can also market it yourself. Can't hurt.

Yes new Condo's going up but the price per sqm in prime locations are off the charts. There are fantastic opportunitys in the older condo market ATM

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[Jingthing]

Yeah, thanks for that.

The hipflat estimate of current price per square meter matches almost exactly what I am seeing in LISTINGS of condos for sale in my building. But still doesn't say if they are SOLD at that price.

[gk10002000]

If you are willing to sell at a fraction of a sensible price in the first place say upto 50%, off that sensible price, there are plenty of buyers around, many Thai who would also be knocking at your door, this is apart from the foreign offshore workers with plenty of spare cash who have joined forces with the delightfully Bright Thai young ladies who have learned all about the buying, selling and renting of houses condos when employed at the bigger real estate agents in town and are now making their knowledge work for them as partners of these foreign speculators.

I also think that position is as another poster pointed out primary in the quick selling of anything whether it is a condo or a house.

But this is not the time to sell in Pattaya because there is just not the turnover of tourists converting to residents as there used to be when all of the ( Most of anyway) male recently divorced or retired or both, european population was coming here with loaded wallets and a good exchange rate to boot and marrying the love of their lives, leaving their hotels not for a condo but for a house

Maybe you've been living under a rock for awhile...oil's at $ 40 and heading to $ 30 a barrel. Those offshore workers that still have jobs aren't buying many condos at the moment.

And for Americans, the exchange rate is the best in a decade.

I think there are a lot of draws now for Americans. As an American the exchange rate to the Baht is very decent right now. Also, Obamacare is very expensive for people that don't qualify for subsidies (me). Living overseas would qualify to be exempt from Obamacare. These two things are big Pros for me to get to Thailand for a full or semi retirement. I would love to semi retire and buy a place in or near Pattaya, even given as much as it has changed since my first visit in 2004. I love the idea of having a place I can customize a bit. 1 or 2 million baht is no big deal. However, I am pretty sure I won't buy because I have grave doubts about Pattaya's water supply. I don't want to get stuck with something I could never sell. It will take 5 or 6 years or more before I spend enough in rent to match what I would lay out by buying, depending on actual costs. I like keeping my money invested and earning dividends, so I would just rent monthly or longer term so I could walk away if needed. Plus I seem to have a knack of running into all the neighbor problems, noisy, crime, construction, etc. here in the States so I don't want to get locked in over there and then encounter the same problems.

Your concern about the water is over-blown. Yes, like in other places like California, there are occasional droughts and dry spells but we haven't had a really bad dry sPell for over 5 years now. And even in the dry times, we were never under any water use restrictions nor were their any increases in price like there have been in California. If there were a serious long-term shortage, do you think the government would just let pattaya dry up and wither away...hardly likely.

If one is paying in $ then now is the best time to buy in a decade...a very strong currency and a market that's flat on its back. One can really break some balls in this market ? If one is thinking long term, buying could make sense as it gives oNE control but renting gives flexibility but no protection against rental inflation.

As to medical care, if you cant afford obamacare you're hardly likely to be able to afford medical care in LOS is things go seriously haywire health wise.

My grandfathered blue cross blue shield plan currently costs $369/month. Next year the project cost is well over $400/month. If I went through the Obamacare exchange it would also be in the $400s. Medical is much cheaper in LOS. Oh and I never said I can't afford Obamacare. I can afford a lot. I just am not going to pay absurd prices for crap.

[bkk6060]

There is a site called "hipflat" and they list some historic "market stats" of different buildings,,

Whether it is useful or no, i have no idea,, Opinions ?

For examlple VT 1

http://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/view-talay-1

Good example of losing money as the properties depreciated over 8%. Even if you rented it out 365 days you probably lost money.

It says depreciated 8.65% from last year, not every year since it was finished, and did you notice that the rent prices increased by 6.54%?

I am not mathematics major. But lets say a $100,000 condo is renting for $600 a month. If you are lucky you have a one year contract commitment.

So last year you lost 8.5% or $8500.

But your rent went up 6.5% of $600. Or $39 a month.

So you depreciated $8500 for the year.

But your rent for the year increased 39x12 or $468.

Hmmmm......

[OMGImInPattaya]

If you are willing to sell at a fraction of a sensible price in the first place say upto 50%, off that sensible price, there are plenty of buyers around, many Thai who would also be knocking at your door, this is apart from the foreign offshore workers with plenty of spare cash who have joined forces with the delightfully Bright Thai young ladies who have learned all about the buying, selling and renting of houses condos when employed at the bigger real estate agents in town and are now making their knowledge work for them as partners of these foreign speculators.

I also think that position is as another poster pointed out primary in the quick selling of anything whether it is a condo or a house.

But this is not the time to sell in Pattaya because there is just not the turnover of tourists converting to residents as there used to be when all of the ( Most of anyway) male recently divorced or retired or both, european population was coming here with loaded wallets and a good exchange rate to boot and marrying the love of their lives, leaving their hotels not for a condo but for a house

Maybe you've been living under a rock for awhile...oil's at $ 40 and heading to $ 30 a barrel. Those offshore workers that still have jobs aren't buying many condos at the moment.

And for Americans, the exchange rate is the best in a decade.

I think there are a lot of draws now for Americans. As an American the exchange rate to the Baht is very decent right now. Also, Obamacare is very expensive for people that don't qualify for subsidies (me). Living overseas would qualify to be exempt from Obamacare. These two things are big Pros for me to get to Thailand for a full or semi retirement. I would love to semi retire and buy a place in or near Pattaya, even given as much as it has changed since my first visit in 2004. I love the idea of having a place I can customize a bit. 1 or 2 million baht is no big deal. However, I am pretty sure I won't buy because I have grave doubts about Pattaya's water supply. I don't want to get stuck with something I could never sell. It will take 5 or 6 years or more before I spend enough in rent to match what I would lay out by buying, depending on actual costs. I like keeping my money invested and earning dividends, so I would just rent monthly or longer term so I could walk away if needed. Plus I seem to have a knack of running into all the neighbor problems, noisy, crime, construction, etc. here in the States so I don't want to get locked in over there and then encounter the same problems.

Your concern about the water is over-blown. Yes, like in other places like California, there are occasional droughts and dry spells but we haven't had a really bad dry sPell for over 5 years now. And even in the dry times, we were never under any water use restrictions nor were their any increases in price like there have been in California. If there were a serious long-term shortage, do you think the government would just let pattaya dry up and wither away...hardly likely.

If one is paying in $ then now is the best time to buy in a decade...a very strong currency and a market that's flat on its back. One can really break some balls in this market ? If one is thinking long term, buying could make sense as it gives oNE control but renting gives flexibility but no protection against rental inflation.

As to medical care, if you cant afford obamacare you're hardly likely to be able to afford medical care in LOS is things go seriously haywire health wise.

My grandfathered blue cross blue shield plan currently costs $369/month. Next year the project cost is well over $400/month. If I went through the Obamacare exchange it would also be in the $400s. Medical is much cheaper in LOS. Oh and I never said I can't afford Obamacare. I can afford a lot. I just am not going to pay absurd prices for crap.

If you're so cashed up you're free to buy a private insurance policy or a higher end exchange policy. The crap policies were the ones obamacare got rid of.

[TheCruncher]

There is a site called "hipflat" and they list some historic "market stats" of different buildings,,

Whether it is useful or no, i have no idea,, Opinions ?

For examlple VT 1

http://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/view-talay-1

Good example of losing money as the properties depreciated over 8%. Even if you rented it out 365 days you probably lost money.

It says depreciated 8.65% from last year, not every year since it was finished, and did you notice that the rent prices increased by 6.54%?

I am not mathematics major. But lets say a $100,000 condo is renting for $600 a month. If you are lucky you have a one year contract commitment.

So last year you lost 8.5% or $8500.

But your rent went up 6.5% of $600. Or $39 a month.

So you depreciated $8500 for the year.

But your rent for the year increased 39x12 or $468.

Hmmmm......

I'm also no mathematician, but I understand that this year I can buy a condo 8.5% cheaper than last year and even fetch a higher rent, a win win situation in my view.

Oh, and I don't expect the sales price will decrease by 8.5% every year, because if that was true they would have been for free already.

[bbi1]

It will be tough unless you discount it , Pattaya is saturated will unsold condos ,

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

[Jingthing]

It will be tough unless you discount it , Pattaya is saturated will unsold condos ,

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Yeah. Perhaps. It depends. If I stay here it wouldn't have been a mistake. If I can sell without too many severe a hit I will still be way ahead of renting for so long.

[anto]

It will be tough unless you discount it , Pattaya is saturated will unsold condos ,

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Yeah. Perhaps. It depends. If I stay here it wouldn't have been a mistake. If I can sell without too many severe a hit I will still be way ahead of renting for so long.

Also you can not put a value on having your own place .With a Condo you can own it 100% .To have a base where you can leave your things ,furnish it to your taste ,and be part of a community .Renters will never know this .

[Jingthing]

I hate renting but owning can be a headache too. You look at the economics and how long you plan to stay. But plans change!

[anto]

I hate renting but owning can be a headache too. You look at the economics and how long you plan to stay. But plans change!

You picked a bad time to sell ,but i know that its out of your control .If you can rent it out for a few years ,(even at a low rent ,as there is no property tax ) and then try selling again .

Edited January 5, 2016 by anto

[Jingthing]

I hate renting but owning can be a headache too. You look at the economics and how long you plan to stay. But plans change!

You picked a bad time to sell ,but i know that its out of your control .If you can rent it out for a few years ,(even at a low rent ,as there is no property tax ) and then try selling again .

Not sure about the timing yet but if I leave Thailand the last thing I would want is an overseas rental. Besides I need the cash.

[KittenKong]

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Yeah. Perhaps. It depends. If I stay here it wouldn't have been a mistake. If I can sell without too many severe a hit I will still be way ahead of renting for so long.

Over a long period of time buying would normally always work out to be better value than renting.

The problem here is that hardly any farang can be certain that they will still be allowed to live here in a few years' time, or that something may not happen that will cause them to want to move quickly to another condo or another town or another country (noise, ill-health, dramatic currency movements, family matters). Thailand is not a good place in which to sell property quickly. It's at that point that the question of whether buying was a good idea becomes much more debatable.

[TheCruncher]

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Yeah. Perhaps. It depends. If I stay here it wouldn't have been a mistake. If I can sell without too many severe a hit I will still be way ahead of renting for so long.

Over a long period of time buying would normally always work out to be better value than renting.

The problem here is that hardly any farang can be certain that they will still be allowed to live here in a few years' time, or that something may not happen that will cause them to want to move quickly to another condo or another town or another country (noise, ill-health, dramatic currency movements, family matters). Thailand is not a good place in which to sell property quickly. It's at that point that the question of whether buying was a good idea becomes much more debatable.

Thailand may currently not the country to sell property quickly, but it was until about 5 years ago. Many foreigners made huge profits buying and selling property in the past.

[bbi1]

It will be tough unless you discount it , Pattaya is saturated will unsold condos ,

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Yeah. Perhaps. It depends. If I stay here it wouldn't have been a mistake. If I can sell without too many severe a hit I will still be way ahead of renting for so long.

Considering the return on the cash you could've gotten by smartly investing your capital instead of putting it into real estate in the Thai market, I would disagree. But that really depends on the person and their investment abilities in growing their cash.

Also you can not put a value on having your own place .With a Condo you can own it 100% .To have a base where you can leave your things ,furnish it to your taste ,and be part of a community .Renters will never know this .

I rent & am very happy being a renter in a nice condo that's fully furnished. Have been for the past 2 years. Didn't need to spend a single baht on any furnishings. Have the option of picking up & leaving at anytime & not having to tie up any cash here.

[TheCruncher]

It will be tough unless you discount it , Pattaya is saturated will unsold condos ,

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Yeah. Perhaps. It depends. If I stay here it wouldn't have been a mistake. If I can sell without too many severe a hit I will still be way ahead of renting for so long.

Considering the return on the cash you could've gotten by smartly investing your capital instead of putting it into real estate in the Thai market, I would disagree. But that really depends on the person and their investment abilities in growing their cash.

Nobody guarantees a return in "smart" investing, so a profit may be a loss, and please don't tell me there are people that always win because they are smart.

Another poster has given a perfect example of investing in oil company shares, as nobody knew this was gonna happen.

This is one of a bunch of the smartest investors in the world.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ackmans-pershing-square-holdings-ends-135140133.html

Ackman's Pershing Square Holdings ends 2015 down 20.5 percent Edited January 5, 2016 by TheCruncher

[mcfish]

It will be tough unless you discount it , Pattaya is saturated will unsold condos ,

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Care to share your smarts? Hmm didn't think so.. Why is it so difficult to extract which investment got you a smarty return and surely sharing that info will only give your stock a boost!

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[Naam]

May be Naam's friends are not the kind that are on a budget, and he just wanted to be polite in his answer.

Naam is hardly polite, nor does he know very much about condos. There is an earlier thread about these condo purchases made by his friends in which it is made clear that he knows few buildings and had to rely on agents and lawyers to pre-select the units and handle the sale. Indeed he was asking for advice about the situation from other board members. The likelihood of getting a good deal in such circumstances here is zero as far as I can see, and most people who live in the real world would know this. This probably helps explain why these buyers paid so much.

Some would say that "we have no budget and dont care about the price" is just one skewed interpretation of "we had no idea of the value of the item and just paid blindly". Both seem equally stupid to me, especially when one is buying a mass-market item like a Pattaya condo of which there are thousands available, and especially in a country where many "professionals" involved in real estate and law are just incompetent crooks. Had they been talking about buying a unique artwork the situation might be different, but Pattaya condos are rarely that.

Naam's comment ("I could tell you but I'm not going to because you wouldn't understand it") reads like a 5-year-old's school-yard taunt to me, and so I treat it with the contempt it richly deserves.

evidence that you wouldn't be able to understand is the fact that you call people "stupid" who, like one of my friends, spent 11 days in Thailand shelling out a total of ~5 million Baht which was the asking price for two studio apartments (one of them not finished).

i assume that the "stupid" comment originates from the perspective of somebody who pays 11,000 Baht rent a month after the owner was willing to accept a nearly 50% lower rent, id est a high net worth individual who lives in one of Jomtien's luxurious penthouses with private pool and a wing for domestic staff.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/883242-are-well-priced-pattaya-resale-condos-selling-now-or-not/page-4#entry10268967

[KittenKong]

evidence that you wouldn't be able to understand is the fact that you call people "stupid" who, like one of my friends, spent 11 days in Thailand shelling out a total of ~5 million Baht which was the asking price for two studio apartments (one of them not finished).

Hmmm. If that's the best you can do then your "evidence" leaves a lot to be desired.

i assume that the "stupid" comment originates from the perspective of somebody who pays 11,000 Baht rent a month after the owner was willing to accept a nearly 50% lower rent, id est a high net worth individual who lives in one of Jomtien's luxurious penthouses with private pool and a wing for domestic staff.

If I wanted a penthouse and a private pool and a wing for domestic staff I would have them. But I simply dont want any of those. What I do have is the right size condo with the right view in the right location. I previously spent over 25 years in a very large farmhouse with acres of land and I'm rather enjoying the change. After hunting every day for 2 years I didnt find any condos that I liked as much here, at least not in a convenient location (I did find a fantastic place an hour's drive away, but that was too far).

If necessary I would have paid 20K/month or even 30K/month rental for my unit, but luckily I didnt have to and I am pleased about that. Any more than that and I would just have moved into the Royal Cliff Suites which I also like, even though they are a bit remote and too big.

Unlike some, just because I have money in the bank doesn't mean that I feel some desperate need to spend it or to display it to others. I'll leave that to those who enjoy school-yard willy-waving contests, as previously mentioned. For what it's worth I think they are very stupid too.

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic.

[KittenKong]

Thailand may currently not the country to sell property quickly, but it was until about 5 years ago. Many foreigners made huge profits buying and selling property in the past.

This in itself indicates that prices now are probably way over the top. It also explains why they are over the top.

One man's huge profit is another man's massive loss.

Edited January 6, 2016 by KittenKong

[bkk6060]

The moral of the story, never ever buy any property in Thailand, not a smart thing to do. Always rent & keep all funds but a very limited amount in your home country or another one.

Yeah. Perhaps. It depends. If I stay here it wouldn't have been a mistake. If I can sell without too many severe a hit I will still be way ahead of renting for so long.

Over a long period of time buying would normally always work out to be better value than renting.

The problem here is that hardly any farang can be certain that they will still be allowed to live here in a few years' time, or that something may not happen that will cause them to want to move quickly to another condo or another town or another country (noise, ill-health, dramatic currency movements, family matters). Thailand is not a good place in which to sell property quickly. It's at that point that the question of whether buying was a good idea becomes much more debatable.

Thailand may currently not the country to sell property quickly, but it was until about 5 years ago. Many foreigners made huge profits buying and selling property in the past.

I guess it all depends on your definition of huge profits. Let's say a $50,000 condo goes to $100,000. That is I guess huge money to some, but not huge at all for property appreciation for many developed countries.

[malcoml]

A friend had a unit in an older building on Pradnamak hill that he sold for roughly what he bought it for.

He did however spend about 20% of its value renovating it.

I guess what has saved some people is that they bought when thei currency was strong so in his case he bought when the Oz dollar was 29 or so and sold when it was 25.

[alex8912]

If I do sell I would have held the place for over 10 years and lived in it, so that was something I got out of it even with a loss sale. Of course not being able to sell at all or a 50 percent loss would be pretty atrocious.

The asking price of units in your building has not increased in 10 years?

A 50% discount on a 100% mark-up is not a loss.

It has but I'm talking about what I might be able to reasonably get if trying to sell in months rather than years.

What you are doing is what many people who don't buy and sell real estate do all the time. Your 50% loss figure is something you are taking OFF a completely made up number. If YOU think your precious condo is worth 5 million based on your fake comps then selling it for 2.5 is a fifty percent loss to YOU. If your mansion is really worth say 3.8 and you get 2.7 or 2.5 because you want to sell quickly that is not a 50% loss. BEFORE YOU SAY "duh" or something else somewhat obnoxious you really should give one or two agents, who you already have an attitude towards, a chance to not only price it but get your inside and/ or exact figures on what similar places are really selling for. There are actually some foreign English speaking agents who are very kind and yes honest who I know here in BKK and also Koh Samui who helped me and a good friend out on several occasions. Believe it or not I would recommend a Russian one if you are in Pattaya. This person has to think you are not being a dick for better English if you want real help however. You can't be snarky with them like you are being on this thread with several people already. Maybe you know one already? I just want to get to the point and have zero ill feelings. Good luck!!

[Jingthing]

I won't say duh to that. I have only sold real estate before when making obscene profits so a potential loss is new to me. There is the exchange rate issue too. Obviously I'm more interested in the dollar profit or loss rather than the baht number. But in my case I bought during a weaker baht time.