Are well priced Pattaya resale condos selling now, or not?

[ptoff]

Before you purchase a condo in Pattaya. I think you should check with a real estate agent, because the prices are different enough. And buy with agent who in the business for many years.

[Jingthing]

Before you purchase a condo in Pattaya. I think you should check with a real estate agent, because the prices are different enough. And buy with agent who in the business for many years.

That's true. It's quite wild west with the listings. I guess the powers here prefer it that way.

[elgenon]

If you are willing to sell at a fraction of a sensible price in the first place say upto 50%, off that sensible price, there are plenty of buyers around, many Thai who would also be knocking at your door, this is apart from the foreign offshore workers with plenty of spare cash who have joined forces with the delightfully Bright Thai young ladies who have learned all about the buying, selling and renting of houses condos when employed at the bigger real estate agents in town and are now making their knowledge work for them as partners of these foreign speculators.

I also think that position is as another poster pointed out primary in the quick selling of anything whether it is a condo or a house.

I take it that you didn't see the article in the paper advising people to stock up on water. The drought in Thailand is real.

Apparently you think that America would less to prevent the effects of a drought than Thailand.

Wow!

But this is not the time to sell in Pattaya because there is just not the turnover of tourists converting to residents as there used to be when all of the ( Most of anyway) male recently divorced or retired or both, european population was coming here with loaded wallets and a good exchange rate to boot and marrying the love of their lives, leaving their hotels not for a condo but for a house

Maybe you've been living under a rock for awhile...oil's at $ 40 and heading to $ 30 a barrel. Those offshore workers that still have jobs aren't buying many condos at the moment.

And for Americans, the exchange rate is the best in a decade.

I think there are a lot of draws now for Americans. As an American the exchange rate to the Baht is very decent right now. Also, Obamacare is very expensive for people that don't qualify for subsidies (me). Living overseas would qualify to be exempt from Obamacare. These two things are big Pros for me to get to Thailand for a full or semi retirement. I would love to semi retire and buy a place in or near Pattaya, even given as much as it has changed since my first visit in 2004. I love the idea of having a place I can customize a bit. 1 or 2 million baht is no big deal. However, I am pretty sure I won't buy because I have grave doubts about Pattaya's water supply. I don't want to get stuck with something I could never sell. It will take 5 or 6 years or more before I spend enough in rent to match what I would lay out by buying, depending on actual costs. I like keeping my money invested and earning dividends, so I would just rent monthly or longer term so I could walk away if needed. Plus I seem to have a knack of running into all the neighbor problems, noisy, crime, construction, etc. here in the States so I don't want to get locked in over there and then encounter the same problems.

Your concern about the water is over-blown. Yes, like in other places like California, there are occasional droughts and dry spells but we haven't had a really bad dry sPell for over 5 years now. And even in the dry times, we were never under any water use restrictions nor were their any increases in price like there have been in California. If there were a serious long-term shortage, do you think the government would just let pattaya dry up and wither away...hardly likely.

If one is paying in $ then now is the best time to buy in a decade...a very strong currency and a market that's flat on its back. One can really break some balls in this market ? If one is thinking long term, buying could make sense as it gives oNE control but renting gives flexibility but no protection against rental inflation.

As to medical care, if you cant afford obamacare you're hardly likely to be able to afford medical care in LOS is things go seriously haywire health wise.

[fred Kubasa]

Well Jingthing, it is a buyer's market now, and for the foreseeable future as developers and Thai

authorities continued to build/build/build even though many vacant/unsold properties were in plain

view.I have friends whose properties have been on the market for over a year, with no prospects eventhough their asking prices have been lowered several times. Oddly, looking out my window right now

I see 8 new buildings in various stages of completion !

[Suradit69]

It's really hard to understand this market. There is no organized MLS system that tells you what things actually sell for. You can see the asks, but you can't see the sale prices.

This is deliberate. It's all smoke and mirrors and the whole market here is a vast Ponzi scheme that relies on no one actually knowing anything at all.

If real selling prices were known you could expect an immediate average drop of 20-30% on advertised prices.

"whole market here is a vast Ponzi scheme "

Not sure if you have a good grasp on what a Ponzi scheme is.

[TramsRepus]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

[mcfish]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

So let me get this right now, you have one friend who bought a dud condo and your basing the biggest financial descion of your life on feed back from a TV FORUM? You know none of the expats here can get finance right?

Get off your but and do due diligence! You don't deserve real estate gains unless you do that

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[KittenKong]

It's really hard to understand this market. There is no organized MLS system that tells you what things actually sell for. You can see the asks, but you can't see the sale prices.

This is deliberate. It's all smoke and mirrors and the whole market here is a vast Ponzi scheme that relies on no one actually knowing anything at all.

If real selling prices were known you could expect an immediate average drop of 20-30% on advertised prices.

"whole market here is a vast Ponzi scheme "

Not sure if you have a good grasp on what a Ponzi scheme is.

I have an excellent grasp of what it is.

So many units here have been sold to people who dont want to own them or use them and just hope to sell them on to some other fool. That is the essence of a Ponzi scheme, which is really just another form of pyramid selling.

[TramsRepus]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

So let me get this right now, you have one friend who bought a dud condo and your basing the biggest financial descion of your life on feed back from a TV FORUM? You know none of the expats here can get finance right?

Get off your but and do due diligence! You don't deserve real estate gains unless you do that

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Okay, that was slightly exaggerated maybe. But my friend bought his for 5Mbaht (according to him anyway) early 1997 and says it is difficult to sell it for the asking price. And I have read similar threads like this one and also talked to condo owners over the years and all are pointing in the same direction, namely that it is more financially wise to rent than buy and leave the money working for you elsewhere. So I have always rented condos during my 16 years here, even though I have the financially means to buy a condo in this price range without damage the bank account too much. I'm getting older and I like the location so I have begun to rethinking it and started to research the topic again and found this thread... I know a few who bought studio shells in View Talay 7 from the developer and furnished them and made some money right after building completion, but many are losing money on their investment.

Edited January 6, 2016 by TramsRepus

[Scouse123]

It's really hard to understand this market. There is no organized MLS system that tells you what things actually sell for. You can see the asks, but you can't see the sale prices.

This is deliberate. It's all smoke and mirrors and the whole market here is a vast Ponzi scheme that relies on no one actually knowing anything at all.

If real selling prices were known you could expect an immediate average drop of 20-30% on advertised prices.

How right you are!

There are no true valuations and you are deliberately kept in the dark by agents, many of whom could not get a job in their industry in the West, and few Estate agents in the West are not particularly good or honest. Any really good deals are snapped up by the agents themselves and sold on without Joe punter public knowing who it is that actually owns it.

A few pointers.

1. Agents already are getting vast discounts from developers who want them to list their projects first to buyers, so forget thinking they are pulling 5% when many are pulling 15-20%. So, therefore, they are already getting huge mark ups and can push these and others as ' brand new ' to their client database.You can see many of these when they have a 3D ' model ' of a new project proudly displayed in their offices!!

2. I have seen guys on here saying about a particular building project that this or that project ' has already sold out on such and such floor ' Not so fast....!....agents conspire with each other when these projects are in the very early development stages and actually ' cherry pick and remove the best condos from the initial offering '

They then tell the customer that these condos have been snapped up prior to being advertised. Yes they have, BY THEM THEMSELVES, So that they can then re-market the same proprties at vastly increased prices on the secondary market as prices for a development start to sell.

3. An estate agents office is split between rentals and sales departments. The two operate independently. The owner of the agency instructs his sales team to guide potential punters to wherever the best commission will be obtained and that is straightforward and simple business ethics in their world.

4. Very rare do agents know of the actual materials or fabrics or quality of workmanship taking place on a condo project. They are usual guided by previous projects done by developers that ' seem to be OK ' They really haven't a clue!

5. Plenty of these fancy SUVs, Mercedes benz, Rollers and Bentleys and other high end cars in Bangkok and Pattaya are owned by these fine developers and estate agents- go figure- it's a very lucrative business.

6. Always market a property yourself as well as using an estate agent and use all media at your disposal including linkedin, facebook, twitter, friends and family etc. flyers, posters in bars offering a % to the bar owner etc.

That is how I managed to sell a property that the estate agents said was ' too difficult to shift ' and ' not the style of property that was selling at the moment '

7. When you are selling a house, they tell you the market is favouring condos, when you are selling a condo, they tell you their customers are looking at new builds. You cannot win with these guys... they are like lawyers!

8. Estate agents are constantly moving offices because the catchment areas of Bangkok and Pattaya are constantly moving as well.The Estate agents who actually own their offices are few and far between. They are market driven as to where the best foot traffic is for their line of business and open there accordingly. So, you see, if they are moving because the centre of the city is being dragged Eastwards or Westwards the same can be said about the ' appeal of your potential condo ' which right now is in a great area but will it be in five years??

9. Once a project is sold out and they all have taken their pound of flesh they don't give a damn if the project goes bust, the management fees and condo maintenance are extortionate- they are not interested!

Any person coming in to Thailand needs to really analyse the market and you are a lot more likely to get a better deal and discount as a buyer., believe it or not, by placing an advert in the Bangkok post or Pattaya Mail,Pattaya Today,Pattaya People etc advertising under ' Wanted ' in the property section from guys who are pig sick of the place and constant rule changes or broken girl/boy relationship who wish to relocate within Asia or move back to their own country.

Caveat Emptor people!

Edited January 6, 2016 by Scouse123

[newnative]

Axis Condo IS right at the top of Thappraya Road so the poster DOES know what he is talking about. I know--I used to live there. Look, with condo sales it isn't brain surgery or rocket science. It's pretty simple. It's all supply and demand. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Nothing more, nothing less. If there is too much supply for a certain type of condo--like all those 8 story theme park condos with no sea view and far from anything, prices will be low and they will be a hard sell--too many look-alike condos and not enough buyers for that type of condo in that type of location. I'm also hearing that with some of them the build quality is very low--even for Thailand--and there are a lot of unhappy owners. On the other hand, there are very few new affordable high rise condos in central Pattaya with sea views, so you have little supply and high demand; prices are high and sales are easy. Ask yourself, if you wanted to live in a new, affordable high rise condo in central Pattaya, what would be your choices? You could count them on one hand and have 3 fingers left. The Base Condo and Centric Sea Condo. That's it. Absolutely no other choices if you want a new highrise in central Pattaya. Now ask yourself how many new, affordable condo complexes there are in Jomtien. Lots of them. You could spend a long time visiting all of them. Supply and demand, kittens. Some will argue this, some will argue that, but it all comes down to supply and demand. Of course, never forget location with real estate but that already figures in to the supply and demand. The best locations create demand.

[Jingthing]

Not going to say my building, but I think the location is very excellent and the area has improved significantly over the years. So I'm not really sure that I'd lose any money (dollar based) at all on a sale now, if I do sell and could find a buyer. But I don't really know. As I'm not a pro I was just looking for some feelings here about relation between the common published asking prices and the getting prices. I can see that's not an easy thing to answer. Basically: IT DEPENDS.

I do agree with the member who suggested the biggest issue with a foreigner owing a condo in Thailand is that owning the condo does not guarantee any right of residence in Thailand. You might say why should it but from the POV of an owner, I can tell you that feeling really sucks. So no I really wouldn't recommend buying here for that main reason in general but I won't mention that to any potential buyers. That's their business!

Edited January 6, 2016 by Jingthing

[Henryford]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

The guy obviously made a sensible decision to buy. He's saved 5.4 million in rent and owns a condo worth up to 7 million. He could almost give it away and still be ahead of the game.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

The guy obviously made a sensible decision to buy. He's saved 5.4 million in rent and owns a condo worth up to 7 million. He could almost give it away and still be ahead of the game.

Does that savings include condo fees, maintenance, a fit-out if he bought a shell, annual Corp statements and taxes if it's in a company name? Not saying condos are a good or bad investment but it's more than just rental savings to consider.

[ghworker2010]

It will be tough unless you discount it , Pattaya is saturated will unsold condos ,

I already guessed that. But the question is how deep a discount do you need to move it relatively quickly, as in months instead of years. By discount I mean off the price levels you see in ads. For example, if you discounted 50 percent which would be horrible for the seller, would it still sit for years?

You go by what has sold. You dont go by what listed prices are.

exactly, its all about comparable prices i.e recent sales

[mcfish]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

The guy obviously made a sensible decision to buy. He's saved 5.4 million in rent and owns a condo worth up to 7 million. He could almost give it away and still be ahead of the game.

Does that savings include condo fees, maintenance, a fit-out if he bought a shell, annual Corp statements and taxes if it's in a company name? Not saying condos are a good or bad investment but it's more than just rental savings to consider.

Unlikely that he bought it in a company name as its not needed or bought a shell. I never seen a shell advertised but maybe he managed to find one. Condo fees vary a lot but he is way ahead of renters

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[newnative]

If you are struggling trying to put a price on your condo for sale I suggest you show your condo to at least 3 or 4 agents and get their opinion on where to price it depending on how fast you need to sell. (No, I am not an agent.) It's possible to sell a condo yourself but to give yourself the best chance of selling I would list it with as many agencies as you can once you have determined a selling price. The more exposure the better. Thailand does not have MLS so you need to contact each agency individually, either in person or thru email. Start with the biggest agencies first and the ones closest to your condo. Some of the local real estate publications have a directory of realtors with their email addresses/phone numbers and that can get you started. Good luck.

[KittenKong]

I never seen a shell advertised but maybe he managed to find one. Condo fees vary a lot but he is way ahead of renters

All units in the high-rise View Talay buildings were originally sold as shells. Several of the VT buildings still have shells available new from the developer (VT3, 5D, 6, 7, 8), and one sometimes sees resale shells for sale.

[mcfish]

I never seen a shell advertised but maybe he managed to find one. Condo fees vary a lot but he is way ahead of renters

All units in the high-rise View Talay buildings were originally sold as shells. Several of the VT buildings still have shells available new from the developer (VT3, 5D, 6, 7, 8), and one sometimes sees resale shells for sale.

I see, sounds like it was popular around that time

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[mrfaroukh]

The prices are going down since a year or so. Many expats have left Thailand, European tourist are not coming much. I see many condo on sale. At some places the prices have been reduced from 85000 SQM to 45000 Sqm and still no buyers. In the Mall you will see many offers. Like pay 30% now and pay the rest within 3 years with 0% interest but what is the catch they are still selling at 85000 sqm. So be smart and do your homework if you want to buy. If you want to sell I think a good price is somewhere between 30 to 40 thousand sqm for a new condo.

[mcfish]

The prices are going down since a year or so. Many expats have left Thailand, European tourist are not coming much. I see many condo on sale. At some places the prices have been reduced from 85000 SQM to 45000 Sqm and still no buyers. In the Mall you will see many offers. Like pay 30% now and pay the rest within 3 years with 0% interest but what is the catch they are still selling at 85000 sqm. So be smart and do your homework if you want to buy. If you want to sell I think a good price is somewhere between 30 to 40 thousand sqm for a new condo.

I don't own anything in Pattaya but may do so later however do you have any links to your research? No offense but A lot of stuff is posted from bar stools and very little real research is done

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[TheCruncher]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

The guy obviously made a sensible decision to buy. He's saved 5.4 million in rent and owns a condo worth up to 7 million. He could almost give it away and still be ahead of the game.

Does that savings include condo fees, maintenance, a fit-out if he bought a shell, annual Corp statements and taxes if it's in a company name? Not saying condos are a good or bad investment but it's more than just rental savings to consider.

Unlikely that he bought it in a company name as its not needed or bought a shell. I never seen a shell advertised but maybe he managed to find one. Condo fees vary a lot but he is way ahead of renters

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Why you think a company is not needed? 51% of every condo building is only available to a foreigner through company route

[TheCruncher]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

I have a hard time to believe that in 1997 there were any condo's offered at more than 50.000 a sqm, as the going price around that time was 20 - 25.000 a sqm for beach front, and an even harder time to believe that that condo is now worth only what he paid for it.

By the way 1997, 18 years ago as you say, the whole property market was on fire sale so even the going price of 20 -25 may not have been reached.

[mcfish]

I friend of me bought a 90sqm beach front condo in Jomtien 18 years ago and paid 5Mbaht back then. Similar condos in the same building are now advertised for 6-7Mbaht... I don't doubt it is possible to negotiate down the price to the originally 5Mbaht. My self, I have rented one for 25Kbaht for a few years now and thought about to buy one. But after reading this thread, i have decided to continue to rent and not buy.

The guy obviously made a sensible decision to buy. He's saved 5.4 million in rent and owns a condo worth up to 7 million. He could almost give it away and still be ahead of the game.

Does that savings include condo fees, maintenance, a fit-out if he bought a shell, annual Corp statements and taxes if it's in a company name? Not saying condos are a good or bad investment but it's more than just rental savings to consider.

Unlikely that he bought it in a company name as its not needed or bought a shell. I never seen a shell advertised but maybe he managed to find one. Condo fees vary a lot but he is way ahead of renters

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Why you think a company is not needed? 51% of every condo building is only available to a foreigner through company route

What at a guess would be the amount of condo's bought in a company name expressed as a percentage?

It's so small that it's really not relevant. We may as well consider condo's in the wife's name if we're going to be pedantic

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[thaitero]

By the way there is a small "gift" from goverment at the moment for buyers/sellers. Transfer tax is reduced temporarily 2% -> 0.01%. Valid until end of april if i remember correctly,,

Edited January 7, 2016 by thaitero

[bobthomas]

It's really hard to understand this market. There is no organized MLS system that tells you what things actually sell for. You can see the asks, but you can't see the sale prices.

This is deliberate. It's all smoke and mirrors and the whole market here is a vast Ponzi scheme that relies on no one actually knowing anything at all.

If real selling prices were known you could expect an immediate average drop of 20-30% on advertised prices.

Given to the gullibility, greed, and ineptness of the average buyer, it's no wonder.

[KittenKong]

What at a guess would be the amount of condo's bought in a company name expressed as a percentage?

It's so small that it's really not relevant. We may as well consider condo's in the wife's name if we're going to be pedantic

In some buildings that are very popular with farangs it may be 25%. Perhaps even more.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Interesting subject. I have been looking for a condo in Pattaya for a long time, but since I am Bangkok based it is really hard to find any reasonable deals. I agree that agents are useless and most online listings are way over priced. The market is just not transparent enough and it is really hard to make a good buyer/seller match.

[Jingthing]

In buildings with a full foreign ownership taken what is the premium for that?

[ExpatOilWorker]

There is a site called "hipflat" and they list some historic "market stats" of different buildings,,

Whether it is useful or no, i have no idea,, Opinions ?

For examlple VT 1

http://www.hipflat.co.th/en/pattaya/condo/view-talay-1

hipflat is a good starting point, but from what I see in Bangkok you can easily shave 30% off the average m2 prices.