Naam Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 i just bought a condo in usa. about what a nice 1 or 2 bed in thailand costs. i wouldnt be surprised if in 20-25 yeras it sells for $500,000 ...............hahahaha. Can you say that about pattaya property? Detroit won't appreciate much. It will in 20 years. imagine what it will be worth in 67.85 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i claudius Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Really i do not care what a condo will be worth here in 20 years time ,by then they will more than likely have built a new block on top of my ashes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inventorinthailand Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I was bidding 2.5Mbaht (52 000b/sqm) on a few View Talay 7 studios, but no one did accept the bid. So people are not so eager to sell yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I was bidding 2.5Mbaht (52 000b/sqm) on a few View Talay 7 studios, but no one did accept the bid. So people are not so eager to sell yet. you have to give it more time. at this stage I would say very few people would realise the seriousness of the conditions behind the economic malaise that is coming. Look how many owners held on to empty shell unfitted condos during the 1997 crisis. But I'm not so sure they will achieve that this time around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) If I were to retire to Pattaya... I know now that many condos can be purchased for less than 50% of their asking price... So take ones time and: Compare prices with others in the same complex. Dig deep into how well the complex is managed. Check the accounts and state of the sinking fund. Listen to gossip, use many real estate agents to show you different properties, they will tell you all the good things about the property they want to sell you, tell them about other properties you are interested in and the will tell you all the bad things about that property, just remember when a real estate agents lips are moving they are probably lying. See if it is possible to get copies of minutes of meetings to see what issues the Condominium has and how they are resolving them. Introduce yourself to the JP (Juristic Person) of the complex or their office telling them you are interested in buy into their condominium, again see how helpful they are with getting information on the condominium, in particular ask if the condominium is near the limit of foreign owners (49%), remember this is the office that you will need to work with. Again enquire about the management committee, are they all Thai if so likely the will be double standards in favour of Thai owners. check costs for maintenance, electricity, water, Internet, TV, phone and any other charges and fines that may be levied. never by off plan or new build, as probably most new builds will lose a lot of there value in the first year and there can be issues a few years down the road when co-owners try installing their own democratic committee to run the condominium, often only after the sinking fund has been depleted will the co-owners get to elect a committee to manage their condominium. Have a check list for the above and always be suspicious of evasive answers. OK you have a bargain, move in and put it up for sale straight away at a price compatible with other asking prices at the same Condominium, do not accept offers under a few % below the asking price and always review it if prices are rising. It may take a few years but eventually someone will turn up offering a good price, then do the same again, go out and find another bargain... Edited January 16, 2016 by Basil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I was bidding 2.5Mbaht (52 000b/sqm) on a few View Talay 7 studios, but no one did accept the bid. So people are not so eager to sell yet. you have to give it more time. at this stage I would say very few people would realise the seriousness of the conditions behind the economic malaise that is coming. Look how many owners held on to empty shell unfitted condos during the 1997 crisis. But I'm not so sure they will achieve that this time around How about condo owners don't give a flying fag about the seriousness of the economic malaise, because their condo isn't on a mortgage and it doesn't eat bread either if it isn't sold at the price they have in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMartinHandyman Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 A friend who owns 2 connected condos and lives in Pattaya for many years told me there are 30,000 + units both new and old for sale. Does anyone know if that is anywhere near accurate or is he just exaggerating because he has become unhappy and planning to leave Thailand soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 A friend who owns 2 connected condos and lives in Pattaya for many years told me there are 30,000 + units both new and old for sale. Does anyone know if that is anywhere near accurate or is he just exaggerating because he has become unhappy and planning to leave Thailand soon?Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 A friend who owns 2 connected condos and lives in Pattaya for many years told me there are 30,000 + units both new and old for sale. Does anyone know if that is anywhere near accurate or is he just exaggerating because he has become unhappy and planning to leave Thailand soon? I thought that was only the number of new condo's that come into the market in Jomtien/pattaya for 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) I was bidding 2.5Mbaht (52 000b/sqm) on a few View Talay 7 studios, but no one did accept the bid. So people are not so eager to sell yet. you have to give it more time. at this stage I would say very few people would realise the seriousness of the conditions behind the economic malaise that is coming. Look how many owners held on to empty shell unfitted condos during the 1997 crisis. But I'm not so sure they will achieve that this time around How about condo owners don't give a flying fag about the seriousness of the economic malaise, because their condo isn't on a mortgage and it doesn't eat bread either if it isn't sold at the price they have in mind. you will find the condo owners you refer to in Pattaya (genuine owner occupiers without concern regarding finance) represent a tiny percentage of the market compared to the number of people who buy these condominiums on the expectation they will flip them on at a higher price . They just haven't realised yet that what may have been easy in the past will end up being an albatross around their necks Edited January 16, 2016 by Asiantravel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 I was bidding 2.5Mbaht (52 000b/sqm) on a few View Talay 7 studios, but no one did accept the bid. So people are not so eager to sell yet. you have to give it more time. at this stage I would say very few people would realise the seriousness of the conditions behind the economic malaise that is coming. Look how many owners held on to empty shell unfitted condos during the 1997 crisis. But I'm not so sure they will achieve that this time around How about condo owners don't give a flying fag about the seriousness of the economic malaise, because their condo isn't on a mortgage and it doesn't eat bread either if it isn't sold at the price they have in mind. you will find the condo owners you refer to in Pattaya (genuine owner occupiers without concern regarding finance) represent a tiny percentage of the market compared to the number of people who buy these condominiums on the expectation they will flip them on at a higher price . They just haven't realised yet that what may have been easy in the past will end up being an albatross around their necks So I live in an albatross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk6060 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Worldwide markets are at the beginning of a huge decline some predict may last 10 years. Who is buying now? Hold off as you will be able to snag one of these units for 50% less or much more in the coming financial Holocaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Worldwide markets are at the beginning of a huge decline some predict may last 10 years. Who is buying now? Hold off as you will be able to snag one of these units for 50% less or much more in the coming financial Holocaust. I started this thread about SELLING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGImInPattaya Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Worldwide markets are at the beginning of a huge decline some predict may last 10 years. Who is buying now? Hold off as you will be able to snag one of these units for 50% less or much more in the coming financial Holocaust. Not the best choice of words...you may be accused of being a financial anti-semite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomyai Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 How about condo owners don't give a flying fag about the seriousness of the economic malaise, because their condo isn't on a mortgage and it doesn't eat bread either if it isn't sold at the price they have in mind. you will find the condo owners you refer to in Pattaya (genuine owner occupiers without concern regarding finance) represent a tiny percentage of the market compared to the number of people who buy these condominiums on the expectation they will flip them on at a higher price . They just haven't realised yet that what may have been easy in the past will end up being an albatross around their necks So I live in an albatross? YES! you live in an albatross. If you had a do-over would you have bought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomyai Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Worldwide markets are at the beginning of a huge decline some predict may last 10 years. Who is buying now? Hold off as you will be able to snag one of these units for 50% less or much more in the coming financial Holocaust. Why buy even at 50%. If you had to sell you would have to go down 50% more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) How about condo owners don't give a flying fag about the seriousness of the economic malaise, because their condo isn't on a mortgage and it doesn't eat bread either if it isn't sold at the price they have in mind. you will find the condo owners you refer to in Pattaya (genuine owner occupiers without concern regarding finance) represent a tiny percentage of the market compared to the number of people who buy these condominiums on the expectation they will flip them on at a higher price . They just haven't realised yet that what may have been easy in the past will end up being an albatross around their necks So I live in an albatross? YES! you live in an albatross. If you had a do-over would you have bought? I can't really fully answer that question yet. I still think my location is quite excellent so I still think if I sell I won't be losing 50 percent of my original US dollar based purchase price. More like I'll get close to my original purchase price plus or minus 10-20 percent. So given the "free rent" for such a long time, in that case, no I wouldn't regret it. Of course if I try to sell and can't, then I will regret it. If I never sell and stay living in it, also won't regret it. Edited January 16, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 If I were to retire to Pattaya... I know now that many condos can be purchased for less than 50% of their asking price... So take ones time and: Compare prices with others in the same complex. Dig deep into how well the complex is managed. Check the accounts and state of the sinking fund. Listen to gossip, use many real estate agents to show you different properties, they will tell you all the good things about the property they want to sell you, tell them about other properties you are interested in and the will tell you all the bad things about that property, just remember when a real estate agents lips are moving they are probably lying. See if it is possible to get copies of minutes of meetings to see what issues the Condominium has and how they are resolving them. Introduce yourself to the JP (Juristic Person) of the complex or their office telling them you are interested in buy into their condominium, again see how helpful they are with getting information on the condominium, in particular ask if the condominium is near the limit of foreign owners (49%), remember this is the office that you will need to work with. Again enquire about the management committee, are they all Thai if so likely the will be double standards in favour of Thai owners. check costs for maintenance, electricity, water, Internet, TV, phone and any other charges and fines that may be levied. never by off plan or new build, as probably most new builds will lose a lot of there value in the first year and there can be issues a few years down the road when co-owners try installing their own democratic committee to run the condominium, often only after the sinking fund has been depleted will the co-owners get to elect a committee to manage their condominium. Have a check list for the above and always be suspicious of evasive answers. OK you have a bargain, move in and put it up for sale straight away at a price compatible with other asking prices at the same Condominium, do not accept offers under a few % below the asking price and always review it if prices are rising. It may take a few years but eventually someone will turn up offering a good price, then do the same again, go out and find another bargain... Seems a lot of work, with still no guaranteed positive outcome, to go through when one can rent somewhere without any hassle at all, and easily move on if things change for the worse. Given that most of the retirees that move to Pattaya will have died, or been forced because of health issues to return home ( can't get insurance in LOS over 75 as I understand it ) before the financial benefits of buying as against renting kick in, it seems a no brainer to me to rent. Can rent a very long time for 2 million or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) A friend who owns 2 connected condos and lives in Pattaya for many years told me there are 30,000 + units both new and old for sale. Does anyone know if that is anywhere near accurate or is he just exaggerating because he has become unhappy and planning to leave Thailand soon? the report mentioned in this article is from May of last year but I doubt if there has been any dramatic change in conditions on the positive side over the last eight months. And for an international property consultancy group like this to say things are not good is actually doublespeak for things are actually diabolical Pattaya prospects " not good " - report Prospects for the condominium market in the Gulf of Thailand city of Pattaya are “not good” according to the latest research from real estate firm Knight Frank. Risinee Sarikaputra, Director of Research and Consultancy for Knight Frank Thailand, explained the condominium market in the studied area has grown continuously since 2007, and 181 condominium projects with more than 63,000 units developed along the coastline of Pattaya City. .......................In conclusion and with words of caution, Knight Frank noted the prospects for Pattaya’s condominium market are not good due to the major buyers are Russian. With the Russian rouble currency devaluation, this will limit the activity of Russian buyers in the market. Units signed-for by Russians but not transferred will be returned to the market since the transferred amount will be higher and there will be many Russians who cannot afford to. http://www.ddproperty.com/en/property-news/2015/5/96124/pattaya-prospects-not-good-report Edited January 17, 2016 by Asiantravel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 you have to give it more time. at this stage I would say very few people would realise the seriousness of the conditions behind the economic malaise that is coming. Look how many owners held on to empty shell unfitted condos during the 1997 crisis. But I'm not so sure they will achieve that this time around How about condo owners don't give a flying fag about the seriousness of the economic malaise, because their condo isn't on a mortgage and it doesn't eat bread either if it isn't sold at the price they have in mind. you will find the condo owners you refer to in Pattaya (genuine owner occupiers without concern regarding finance) represent a tiny percentage of the market compared to the number of people who buy these condominiums on the expectation they will flip them on at a higher price . They just haven't realised yet that what may have been easy in the past will end up being an albatross around their necks So I live in an albatross? Duh !!! I not talking about people like you! You are an owner occupier aren't you? I'm talking about the Thais who have may be bought two or three off the plan condos with as little as 5% deposit (compared to foreigners who have to put up 30%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Duh !!! I not talking about people like you! You are an owner occupier aren't you? I'm talking about the Thais who have may be bought two or three off the plan condos with as little as 5% deposit (compared to foreigners who have to put up 30%) Since you were responding to a post about View Talay 7, I doubt there are any Thais left there that still have to transfer their unit. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/883242-are-well-priced-pattaya-resale-condos-selling-now-or-not/?p=10316404 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Duh !!! I not talking about people like you! You are an owner occupier aren't you? I'm talking about the Thais who have may be bought two or three off the plan condos with as little as 5% deposit (compared to foreigners who have to put up 30%) Since you were responding to a post about View Talay 7, I doubt there are any Thais left there that still have to transfer their unit. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/883242-are-well-priced-pattaya-resale-condos-selling-now-or-not/?p=10316404 No I’m not talking about any specific condominium building. I’m talking about Thai’s that have purchased several condominiums on very low deposits out of the 63,000 units mentioned in the report in any one of the 181 projects. In the past it was always quite easy for these people to flip them on at a small profit or in the worst case scenario come out even. may be a good example of the " greater fool " theory. It is the actions of these people (and with liquidity drying up more and more distressed developers) and not owner occupiers like you that will dictate market prices going forward simply because they represent a much greater proportion of the market . What I’m saying is that many Thais are already up to their necks in debt and as the next financial crisis takes hold (and with even the likes of CNBC conceding this time it will be much worse than 2008) they will not have the luxury of sitting back and waiting for the right price. Edited January 17, 2016 by Asiantravel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Totally disagree with the statement that owner-occupiers without concern for finance represent just a tiny segment of the condo market. Certainly not true with condo projects popular with farangs. Even with condo projects like Lumpini Park Beach that have more Thai owners, the statement isn't true. LPN Park Beach is almost sold out except for some undesirable condos on the lowest floors--the flippers are long gone. Another example is The Base. Yes, lots of Thais bought condos at The Base when it was first offered for sale a couple years ago before construction began. They bought early and only had to make minimum payments for Thai ownership. They have had a long time to sell their contracts and make a little profit on them. Most have already done that, knowing that the condo is almost done. A Thai friend of mine bought one of the contracts almost a year ago, for example. Hipflat, today, has 63 condos advertised for sale by flippers at The Base who have not yet sold. Not a huge percentage in a project with 1100 units and some appear to be duplicate listings. Like most of the other complexes in Pattaya, The Base will end up with mostly full-time owner-occupiers, part-year owner-occupiers, weekend owner-occupiers, and tenant occupiers, renting condos that have been bought to rent out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loppylugs1 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Totally disagree with the statement that owner-occupiers without concern for finance represent just a tiny segment of the condo market. Certainly not true with condo projects popular with farangs. Even with condo projects like Lumpini Park Beach that have more Thai owners, the statement isn't true. LPN Park Beach is almost sold out except for some undesirable condos on the lowest floors--the flippers are long gone. Another example is The Base. Yes, lots of Thais bought condos at The Base when it was first offered for sale a couple years ago before construction began. They bought early and only had to make minimum payments for Thai ownership. They have had a long time to sell their contracts and make a little profit on them. Most have already done that, knowing that the condo is almost done. A Thai friend of mine bought one of the contracts almost a year ago, for example. Hipflat, today, has 63 condos advertised for sale by flippers at The Base who have not yet sold. Not a huge percentage in a project with 1100 units and some appear to be duplicate listings. Like most of the other complexes in Pattaya, The Base will end up with mostly full-time owner-occupiers, part-year owner-occupiers, weekend owner-occupiers, and tenant occupiers, renting condos that have been bought to rent out. I hesitate to know just how this knowledge and information of yours is garnered?...well you did volunteer a glimmer of where it was gained...The Sales Office....right, ...right from the horses mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 If I were to retire to Pattaya... I know now that many condos can be purchased for less than 50% of their asking price... So take ones time and: Compare prices with others in the same complex. Dig deep into how well the complex is managed. Check the accounts and state of the sinking fund. Listen to gossip, use many real estate agents to show you different properties, they will tell you all the good things about the property they want to sell you, tell them about other properties you are interested in and the will tell you all the bad things about that property, just remember when a real estate agents lips are moving they are probably lying. See if it is possible to get copies of minutes of meetings to see what issues the Condominium has and how they are resolving them. Introduce yourself to the JP (Juristic Person) of the complex or their office telling them you are interested in buy into their condominium, again see how helpful they are with getting information on the condominium, in particular ask if the condominium is near the limit of foreign owners (49%), remember this is the office that you will need to work with. Again enquire about the management committee, are they all Thai if so likely the will be double standards in favour of Thai owners. check costs for maintenance, electricity, water, Internet, TV, phone and any other charges and fines that may be levied. never by off plan or new build, as probably most new builds will lose a lot of there value in the first year and there can be issues a few years down the road when co-owners try installing their own democratic committee to run the condominium, often only after the sinking fund has been depleted will the co-owners get to elect a committee to manage their condominium. Have a check list for the above and always be suspicious of evasive answers. OK you have a bargain, move in and put it up for sale straight away at a price compatible with other asking prices at the same Condominium, do not accept offers under a few % below the asking price and always review it if prices are rising.It may take a few years but eventually someone will turn up offering a good price, then do the same again, go out and find another bargain... Seems a lot of work, with still no guaranteed positive outcome, to go through when one can rent somewhere without any hassle at all, and easily move on if things change for the worse.Given that most of the retirees that move to Pattaya will have died, or been forced because of health issues to return home ( can't get insurance in LOS over 75 as I understand it ) before the financial benefits of buying as against renting kick in, it seems a no brainer to me to rent. Can rent a very long time for 2 million or so. Not contesting that but there are also often hassles with renting. To me the biggest negative of owning here is the risk of losing legal status to live here. In that sense overall I would not recommend buying. But as I may be selling by all means buy buy buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Totally disagree with the statement that owner-occupiers without concern for finance represent just a tiny segment of the condo market. Certainly not true with condo projects popular with farangs. Even with condo projects like Lumpini Park Beach that have more Thai owners, the statement isn't true. LPN Park Beach is almost sold out except for some undesirable condos on the lowest floors--the flippers are long gone. Another example is The Base. Yes, lots of Thais bought condos at The Base when it was first offered for sale a couple years ago before construction began. They bought early and only had to make minimum payments for Thai ownership. They have had a long time to sell their contracts and make a little profit on them. Most have already done that, knowing that the condo is almost done. A Thai friend of mine bought one of the contracts almost a year ago, for example. Hipflat, today, has 63 condos advertised for sale by flippers at The Base who have not yet sold. Not a huge percentage in a project with 1100 units and some appear to be duplicate listings. Like most of the other complexes in Pattaya, The Base will end up with mostly full-time owner-occupiers, part-year owner-occupiers, weekend owner-occupiers, and tenant occupiers, renting condos that have been bought to rent out. Don't you think it is strange that The Base, which isn't finished and never had a showroom or sales office at the location, is sold out, while Centric Sea which is in a comparable if not better location with comparable prices and completed already has still 200 units for sale straight from developer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Actually The Base did have a sales office and showroom at the site--but the project sold out quickly and they took the sales office down when they started construction. Hard to say why one project will sell out quickly and another take longer. The Base sold out fast but Sansiri's other project, Baan Plai Haad, still has condos for sale. Centric is actually doing better than most condo projects in Pattaya, in my opinion. 200 units left out of around 1000 in this slow market isn't bad for a project only open a few months. VT7 has been open 5 years, for example, and the back wings on either side are mostly empty--and when it was first opened for sales 5 years ago there wasn't nearly the number of condo projects as there are now so there was much less competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Yes I do go to sales offices, Loppy. It's a good starting point if you are interested in a particular project and want to see the show rooms and get price lists and other information. Some of what I may mention here is first hand knowledge--such as the information about Lumpini Park Beach. I lived there until recently and it was easy to see that most of the units had curtains in the windows--so they were sold, not just booked. The exceptions were mostly very low floors and some of the 12 million baht large front units in the A Building. From time to time I would check the sales office to see what was left--and it wasn't much. Also first hand is the VT7 information. lived at VT7 and it was easy to see that the back wings were mostly unsold--very few air con units on the balconies. I think when I was living there only about 3 or 4 had been sold. Might be more sold by now but I think the wings are still mostly empty. The Hipflat information I passed on this evening was 'garnered' by going to their website and doing a search of 'The Base Central Pattaya' condos for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) To add to my last post, personally based on my hold time even if I had to walk away from the condo and get nothing, the "free rent" I got living in it has ALREADY exceeded the original purchase price based on realistic rents that I know similar units are getting. That doesn't account of course for income I could have made on that capital if it was used elsewhere (opportunity cost). So again, my personal calculation about how this will work out eventually (mistake or not) in case of sale may not quite be all that grim. But still obviously walking away or a 50 percent loss would definitely suck. Edited January 17, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomyai Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Would you buy the property you own today? If the answer is NO-sell. Can you rent it out at 1% of purchase price as rental- may not be such a bad idea. Since you did get FREE RENT(which it really isnt) you arent losing that much. Get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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