British man found dead on Koh Tao

[KunMatt]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

It markets itself as a party Island if everyone is tucked up in bed by midnight then they wouldn't bother going.

Quite clearly once people do have a drink they will make a tit of themselves, even the perfect people on this website must have done so before. In the west you may get a good hiding for doing so, in KT you get jumped on by gangs and if you upset the well connected you'll get murdered.

There's a big difference between being in a party mood and having a good time and just being plain dumb.

We are so lucky to have posting in here the only person in history who has never done anything dumb or had any accidents which wasn't their fault in their entire life.

Well done on being absolutely perfect and interesting to see that a lifetime of perfection has rewarded you with a wholesome life in Pattaya which offers the safest and most respectable of all lifestyles to be had in Thailand.

If any of the above is not true then it must mean that you are just condescending innocent young people who tragically lost their lives on their holiday. Nothing more.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Is it egotistical to know the difference between heresay and facts?

Sounds like something a pseudo-journalist might say, 555

Obviously, someone who has no education in logic. Yes, I did successfully complete a University level class in logic. The topic does exist. It's real. Although, many people here have never heard of it, 555

For your further education:

http://m.bjc.oxfordjournals.org/content

What did you have for Christmas, a trumpet perhaps!

[glenmohr]

"learnt the hardest way" I would vigorously challenge the concept that murdered people have learnt anything at all? There is absolutely no one walking around our soi saying : " Before I was murdered I was a real son of a bitch, but I got murdered and that taught me a lesson!"

Yes that poster has made some otherwise good points, and yes we should teach our children well, however mistakes are made by humans. On Koh Tao mistakes are fatal.

[SoiBiker]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

It markets itself as a party Island if everyone is tucked up in bed by midnight then they wouldn't bother going.

I've never seen Koh Tao market itself as a 'party island'. Mostly it seems to trade on it's reputation as a diving centre.

Can you point to some of the marketing material you're talking about?

[stephenterry]

Google koh tao pub crawl sponsored by Leo

[SoiBiker]

Google koh tao pub crawl sponsored by Leo

That looks less like the island promoting itself and more like a bunch of farang douchebags promoting a rather dubious business.

[jayjay78]

Google koh tao pub crawl sponsored by Leo

or you can head to the Psychedelic trance festival could be fun

http://theexperience-kohtao.com/home/#HomePage

[Khun Han]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

It markets itself as a party Island if everyone is tucked up in bed by midnight then they wouldn't bother going.

Quite clearly once people do have a drink they will make a tit of themselves, even the perfect people on this website must have done so before. In the west you may get a good hiding for doing so, in KT you get jumped on by gangs and if you upset the well connected you'll get murdered.

There's a big difference between being in a party mood and having a good time and just being plain dumb.

We are so lucky to have posting in here the only person in history who has never done anything dumb or had any accidents which wasn't their fault in their entire life.

Well done on being absolutely perfect and interesting to see that a lifetime of perfection has rewarded you with a wholesome life in Pattaya which offers the safest and most respectable of all lifestyles to be had in Thailand.

If any of the above is not true then it must mean that you are just condescending innocent young people who tragically lost their lives on their holiday. Nothing more.

Not forgetting the rather obvious point that victims are often just in the wromg place at the wrong time, and end up getting mugged/raped/subjected to gratuitous violence/murder. Etc, etc. Even perfect people are sometimes victims.

[ffaarraanngg]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

It markets itself as a party Island if everyone is tucked up in bed by midnight then they wouldn't bother going.

I've never seen Koh Tao market itself as a 'party island'. Mostly it seems to trade on it's reputation as a diving centre.

Can you point to some of the marketing material you're talking about?

I've never seen Pattaya market itself as the worlds largest brothel but you know thats what you'll get when you arrive.

[ffaarraanngg]

Google koh tao pub crawl sponsored by Leo

That looks less like the island promoting itself and more like a bunch of farang douchebags promoting a rather dubious business.

Looks like a load of young westerners partying, but clearly any dubious business in Thailand must be the fault of farang doubchebags as you strangely put it.

[balo]

There is no doubt that young people who are not aware of the risks can end up in trouble , if they are in a party mood and maybe also some of them are abusing alcohol and drugs. I would not send my kids there, but people in their 20's are old enough to take control of their own lifes. Even if we put up warning signs on the island to be very careful , some people will learn the hard way.

[TheLobster]

On Friday AD posted that it was murder, I'm sure he wouldn't have done without being confident of the autopsy result and having seen the photos that Luke's friends had taken.

[JLCrab]

On Friday AD posted that it was murder, I'm sure he wouldn't have done without being confident of the autopsy result and having seen the photos that Luke's friends had taken.

That post 22 JAN 2016 by AD only quotes Ms. Gissing on Facebook and what the Gissings and the late Mr. L. Miller's family think happened to that effect.

Edited January 24, 2016 by JLCrab

[SiSePuede419]

On Friday AD posted that it was murder, I'm sure he wouldn't have done without being confident of the autopsy result and having seen the photos that Luke's friends had taken.

That post 22 JAN 2016 by AD only quotes Ms. Gissing on Facebook to that effect.

It's really hard to figure out from AD's blog the date of his post -because he doesn't put a timestamp on their.

Ever seen a legitimate journalistic publication that doesn't put a publish date on its work?

He wrote that both James and Nichola "are convinced" the injuries on Luke's face are not from 'barbed wire', but from being beaten.

My first questions...

1. How did both James and Nichola become experts on barbed wire? Are they from the UK? Have they ever seen barbed wire before?

2. I have a barbed wire fence surrounding my house. I live on the 'open range'. That doesn't make me an expert on forensic Barb wire injuries.

3. Could the injuries they think came from a beating possibly have come from the fall?

As they say, falls can't hurt you, its the sudden stop at the bottom.

[Khun Han]

We'll have much clearer picture (hopefully not literally, on here!) of Luke's injuries once the UK autopsy report is released.

[ffaarraanngg]

On Friday AD posted that it was murder, I'm sure he wouldn't have done without being confident of the autopsy result and having seen the photos that Luke's friends had taken.

That post 22 JAN 2016 by AD only quotes Ms. Gissing on Facebook to that effect.

It's really hard to figure out from AD's blog the date of his post -because he doesn't put a timestamp on their.

Ever seen a legitimate journalistic publication that doesn't put a publish date on its work?

He wrote that both James and Nichola "are convinced" the injuries on Luke's face are not from 'barbed wire', but from being beaten.

My first questions...

1. How did both James and Nichola become experts on barbed wire? Are they from the UK? Have they ever seen barbed wire before?

2. I have a barbed wire fence surrounding my house. I live on the 'open range'. That doesn't make me an expert on forensic Barb wire injuries.

3. Could the injuries they think came from a beating possibly have come from the fall?

As they say, falls can't hurt you, its the sudden stop at the bottom.

But the Thai police are saying he fell into pool and drowned and jumping from the top of that DJ booth which is about 3 metres up, not likely to get bruised and bashed up from such a low height when landing in water. And its next to the diving board so presumably the water is relatively deep there.

[JLCrab]

Just looking at that closed end to the right of the photo, it might be possible that someone jumping off the roof might strike the side of the pool.

[KunMatt]

Just looking at that closed end to the right of the photo, it might be possible that someone jumping off the roof might strike the side of the pool.

Could be but why do you so desperately wish that was so?

You are a staunch defender of Koh Tao against the B2 and you straight away came to the defense and posted loads of speculation about Luke's death and how it is nothing to do with Koh Tao. The rest of us are waiting for some more actual facts to come out while you Koh Tao cheerleaders are all exposing yourselves.

[jacky54]

Why no pics of this pool in the daylight?

[JLCrab]

Just looking at that closed end to the right of the photo, it might be possible that someone jumping off the roof might strike the side of the pool.

Could be but why do you so desperately wish that was so?

You are a staunch defender of Koh Tao against the B2 and you straight away came to the defense and posted loads of speculation about Luke's death and how it is nothing to do with Koh Tao. The rest of us are waiting for some more actual facts to come out while you Koh Tao cheerleaders are all exposing yourselves.

Just look at the photo and see how narrow that closed end is and stuff the other nonsense.

And you're right. To summarize: Someone wrote about a fight when two tall guests came to the aid of someone a few weeks back. Someone then speculated that maybe the late Mr. Miller was one of those two tall guests. I posted a picture to show that the late Mr. Miller was not tall. And then someone writes, well to Thai folks, all farang are tall. But the person who wrote 'tall guests' and observed the fight was a farang, not a Thai.

Edited January 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[KunMatt]

Just looking at that closed end to the right of the photo, it might be possible that someone jumping off the roof might strike the side of the pool.

Could be but why do you so desperately wish that was so?

You are a staunch defender of Koh Tao against the B2 and you straight away came to the defense and posted loads of speculation about Luke's death and how it is nothing to do with Koh Tao. The rest of us are waiting for some more actual facts to come out while you Koh Tao cheerleaders are all exposing yourselves.

Just look at the photo and see how narrow that closed end is and stuff the other nonsense.

I know it's only one photo but the diving board appears to stick out far enough to be in the footprint of the pool, and being a party pool it is designed for people to use it to jump into the pool which I'm guessing hundreds of people do while drunk every month and as far as we know nobody dies there regularly doing this stunt. That diving board is about 3m high and a fall of 2m can kill, so a 3m fall onto your head onto concrete is likely to be fatal so if the board is too narrow then it would be a death trap, which it is obviously not from the frequent use it gets and lack of reported fatalities.

Unless you are saying that Luke jumped head-first side ways off of the board, hit his head poolside and then somehow still landed in the pool? I'm not saying it's impossible but I do think it's extremely unlikely given that he was supposed to have been using the diving board for its intended use. Also diving head first would mean he would fall much farther away from the board that it he just stepped off of it so, again just judging from that photo, he would easily have landed well in the pool.

Why not just wait for the UK autopsy results and the family to reveal the evidence they've acquired before blindly making excuses for every death in Koh Tao?

[JLCrab]

Well people here including the Facebook quotes are suggesting it's murder -- it doesn't seem they are willing to wait. What I read is that he maybe jumped off the DJ shed roof, not the diving board.

[KunMatt]

Well people here including the Facebook quotes are suggesting it's murder -- it doesn't seem they are willing to wait. What I read is that he maybe jumped off the DJ shed roof, not the diving board.

Again, may be, we don't know at this stage. Why do you always have to find excuses and be on the side that protects Koh Tao?

[JLCrab]

Well people here including the Facebook quotes are suggesting it's murder -- it doesn't seem they are willing to wait. What I read is that he maybe jumped off the DJ shed roof, not the diving board.

Again, may be, we don't know at this stage. Why do you always have to find excuses and be on the side that protects Koh Tao?

Because if 90+% of the people take one side of an issue and less than 10% of the people take the other, I like to side with the less than 10% if I think there is a reasonable chance they are right and the 90+% are wrong. And even if I turn out to be wrong, I really don't care.

And I do this in my real life NGO activities as well where almost everyone on Twitter who is involved with the same issues that interest me has me on block. But there enough very credible people who agree with me that that doesn't bother me either.

Edited January 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[KunMatt]

Well people here including the Facebook quotes are suggesting it's murder -- it doesn't seem they are willing to wait. What I read is that he maybe jumped off the DJ shed roof, not the diving board.

Again, may be, we don't know at this stage. Why do you always have to find excuses and be on the side that protects Koh Tao?

Because if 90+% of the people take one side of an issue and less than 10% of the people take the other, I like to side with the less than 10% if I think there is a reasonable chance they are right and the 90+% are wrong. And even if I turn out to be wrong, I really don't care.

And I do this in my real life NGO activities as well where almost everyone on Twitter who is involved with the same issues that interest me has me on block. But there enough very credible people who agree with me that that doesn't bother me either.

So basically you are admitting that you are a troll because you just like to be a contrarian and argue against the popular opinion.

[JLCrab]

Well people here including the Facebook quotes are suggesting it's murder -- it doesn't seem they are willing to wait. What I read is that he maybe jumped off the DJ shed roof, not the diving board.

Again, may be, we don't know at this stage. Why do you always have to find excuses and be on the side that protects Koh Tao?

Because if 90+% of the people take one side of an issue and less than 10% of the people take the other, I like to side with the less than 10% if I think there is a reasonable chance they are right and the 90+% are wrong. And even if I turn out to be wrong, I really don't care.

And I do this in my real life NGO activities as well where almost everyone on Twitter who is involved with the same issues that interest me has me on block. But there enough very credible people who agree with me that that doesn't bother me either.

So basically you are admitting that you are a troll because you just like to be a contrarian and argue against the popular opinion.

No -- I am admitting that I am a contrarian because I believe I may be right and popular opinion may be wrong.

Edited January 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[Si Thea01]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

Yes, let Thailand do that and while you're at it let's have the same arrangements in Indonesia, Bali, Australia, England, France, Germany. America,. Mexico, Brazil, need I go on. There are assaults, rapes, murders, kidnappings, it goes on and on with different results in each of those countries. What are you suggesting be done to look after Thailand's tourists?

No matter where young people travel, unfortunately some will suffer unspeakable crimes committed against them, that is the world of today. Many, many sickos of different nationalities, not only here in Thailand. Yes, this is about Thailand and KT and no one wants to see anyone die but in this latest incident, I think we should all wait until, if and when, the autopsy report is released.

[glenmohr]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

Yes, let Thailand do that and while you're at it let's have the same arrangements in Indonesia, Bali, Australia, England, France, Germany. America,. Mexico, Brazil, need I go on. There are assaults, rapes, murders, kidnappings, it goes on and on with different results in each of those countries. What are you suggesting be done to look after Thailand's tourists?

No matter where young people travel, unfortunately some will suffer unspeakable crimes committed against them, that is the world of today. Many, many sickos of different nationalities, not only here in Thailand. Yes, this is about Thailand and KT and no one wants to see anyone die but in this latest incident, I think we should all wait until, if and when, the autopsy report is released.

All those countries you mention above Thea are democracies.Without exception they have different core beliefs to Thailand. Thailand is a non democratic feudal system still based on patronage.

All of those countries you mention above have police forces who, in the main, care.

All of those countries you mention above have criminal justice systems, which are not perfect, but usually cannot be bought or bribed and are not subject to patronage..

Which part of Thailand do you not understand ????

I can tell you that in my country we have bashings, rapes, robberies and murders. As soon as they are discovered we relentlessly pursue the perpetrators. I am confident that is also the procedure in all those countries you mention. Have you spotted the difference yet?

[OMGImInPattaya]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

Yes, let Thailand do that and while you're at it let's have the same arrangements in Indonesia, Bali, Australia, England, France, Germany. America,. Mexico, Brazil, need I go on. There are assaults, rapes, murders, kidnappings, it goes on and on with different results in each of those countries. What are you suggesting be done to look after Thailand's tourists?

No matter where young people travel, unfortunately some will suffer unspeakable crimes committed against them, that is the world of today. Many, many sickos of different nationalities, not only here in Thailand. Yes, this is about Thailand and KT and no one wants to see anyone die but in this latest incident, I think we should all wait until, if and when, the autopsy report is released.

The hint of danger and exoticism is also a draw for many people no doubt...I'm sure if Thailand was as safe and sterile as their home countries they wouldn't bother to come.

[smedly]

Just looking at that closed end to the right of the photo, it might be possible that someone jumping off the roof might strike the side of the pool.

an idiot jumping from the roof would have the intelligence to jump to the right especially if they had done it many times before

you are just making stuff up as you go - honestly what is the point