British man found dead on Koh Tao

[alanrchase]

^ You make a good point that the easy way out for Luke's family and friends is to just accept the accidental death scenario, and at least some of them must realise this. The fact that they are not doing so is telling and pertinent.

A British coroner does not come to an 'open verdict' decision comfortably or easily. Such a verdict on a death that occurred on home soil often opens up a big can of worms. If the UK police had been pushing an accidental death scenario, they would very likely have to re-open the case. Obviously, the Thai police did the investigating (fwiw), and they are not going to take this any further.

This is going to remain a suspicious death. And I strongly suspect that the suspicious deaths will continue on Koh Tao and elsewhere until Thailand gets a government that is willing to tackle the Mafias that create these scenarios. It won't be anytime soon though, because the current incumbents appear to be part of the problem rather than offering any solutions.

My understanding is that a jury comes to the conlcusion. The open verdict means a jury could not agree on a specific cause of death. Often happens in suspected suicides when no note or other evidence is found.(In no way suggesting this was suicide). That the jury found no evidence of specific cause of death is unfortunate. Many cases end this way.

[MrTee]

^ You make a good point that the easy way out for Luke's family and friends is to just accept the accidental death scenario, and at least some of them must realise this. The fact that they are not doing so is telling and pertinent.

A British coroner does not come to an 'open verdict' decision comfortably or easily. Such a verdict on a death that occurred on home soil often opens up a big can of worms. If the UK police had been pushing an accidental death scenario, they would very likely have to re-open the case. Obviously, the Thai police did the investigating (fwiw), and they are not going to take this any further.

This is going to remain a suspicious death. And I strongly suspect that the suspicious deaths will continue on Koh Tao and elsewhere until Thailand gets a government that is willing to tackle the Mafias that create these scenarios. It won't be anytime soon though, because the current incumbents appear to be part of the problem rather than offering any solutions.

My understanding is that a jury comes to the conlcusion. The open verdict means a jury could not agree on a specific cause of death. Often happens in suspected suicides when no note or other evidence is found.(In no way suggesting this was suicide). That the jury found no evidence of specific cause of death is unfortunate. Many cases end this way.

it was an autopsy, not an inquest..

There was no jury only a coroner.

[Khun Han]

^ You make a good point that the easy way out for Luke's family and friends is to just accept the accidental death scenario, and at least some of them must realise this. The fact that they are not doing so is telling and pertinent.

A British coroner does not come to an 'open verdict' decision comfortably or easily. Such a verdict on a death that occurred on home soil often opens up a big can of worms. If the UK police had been pushing an accidental death scenario, they would very likely have to re-open the case. Obviously, the Thai police did the investigating (fwiw), and they are not going to take this any further.

This is going to remain a suspicious death. And I strongly suspect that the suspicious deaths will continue on Koh Tao and elsewhere until Thailand gets a government that is willing to tackle the Mafias that create these scenarios. It won't be anytime soon though, because the current incumbents appear to be part of the problem rather than offering any solutions.

My understanding is that a jury comes to the conlcusion. The open verdict means a jury could not agree on a specific cause of death. Often happens in suspected suicides when no note or other evidence is found.(In no way suggesting this was suicide). That the jury found no evidence of specific cause of death is unfortunate. Many cases end this way.

Juries are rarely used in UK inquests. I know it's a Wiki, but it's the best precis I could find quickly, and the info is pretty accurate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquests_in_England_and_Wales

You are correct that an open verdict nearly always relates to a suspected suicide (I also doubt that this particular criterion is being applied in Luke's case). When the open verdict decision is given in other circumstances, it's usually a difficult and controversial one, as I saId in my previous post. I would say it has almost certainly been classed as a suspicious death, but we'd need to see the coroner's reasoning to be sure.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Khun Han

[alanrchase]

^ You make a good point that the easy way out for Luke's family and friends is to just accept the accidental death scenario, and at least some of them must realise this. The fact that they are not doing so is telling and pertinent.

A British coroner does not come to an 'open verdict' decision comfortably or easily. Such a verdict on a death that occurred on home soil often opens up a big can of worms. If the UK police had been pushing an accidental death scenario, they would very likely have to re-open the case. Obviously, the Thai police did the investigating (fwiw), and they are not going to take this any further.

This is going to remain a suspicious death. And I strongly suspect that the suspicious deaths will continue on Koh Tao and elsewhere until Thailand gets a government that is willing to tackle the Mafias that create these scenarios. It won't be anytime soon though, because the current incumbents appear to be part of the problem rather than offering any solutions.

My understanding is that a jury comes to the conlcusion. The open verdict means a jury could not agree on a specific cause of death. Often happens in suspected suicides when no note or other evidence is found.(In no way suggesting this was suicide). That the jury found no evidence of specific cause of death is unfortunate. Many cases end this way.

it was an autopsy, not an inquest..

There was no jury only a coroner.

Apologies, my mistake. Why a verdict?

[SoiBiker]

I'd have thought there was an inquest too, it's fairly standard procedure when a Brit dies abroad.

[MrTee]

I'd have thought there was an inquest too, it's fairly standard procedure when a Brit dies abroad.

I expect there will be in due course.

[alanrchase]

I'd have thought there was an inquest too, it's fairly standard procedure when a Brit dies abroad.

I expect there will be in due course.

Sorry for my ignorance, but the coroner's verdict as reported by a previous poster should only be taken as an opinion? There will be an inquest to follow?

[SiSePuede419]

Remember....the guy we're talking about came to Koh Tao over a year after the "other Miller" murder.

>Didn't worry him enough not to come.

>Didn't concern him enough to curtail consumption of The World's Most Dangerous Drug (alcohol).

>Did not bother him in the slightest about the possibility that he would become ensnared in a deadly "encounter" with ???

After all the news about the two young Brits murdered in the same country, same island, same beach....he decided that would be the PERFECT PLACE to celebrate "life".

Whether or not he was murdered or this was an accident, he bears full responsibility for his choice to go there and for his own actions to glug, glug, glug negligently ignoring the DANGERS of his surroundings.

Rule #1 of Survival: Always be aware of your surroundings at all times. Your life may depend on your awareness.

[Basil B]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

What is more probable is that an altercation took place, the guy was beaten up and chucked in the pool to drown. Not murder per se but manslaughter.

Not proven... but could of happened.

Unfortunately Thailand is now governed in a way that you do not seek what you do not want to know...

Anyway police to busy looking for real criminals ...old expat granddads & grannies playing bridge.

[alanrchase]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

What is more probable is that an altercation took place, the guy was beaten up and chucked in the pool to drown. Not murder per se but manslaughter.

Not proven... but could of happened.

Unfortunately Thailand is now governed in a way that you do not seek what you do not want to know...

Anyway police to busy looking for real criminals ...old expat granddads & grannies playing bridge.

You came all the way back to this thread to put the "playing bridge" referance in. Amazing Thai Visa.

[alanrchase]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

What is more probable is that an altercation took place, the guy was beaten up and chucked in the pool to drown. Not murder per se but manslaughter.

Not proven... but could of happened.

Unfortunately Thailand is now governed in a way that you do not seek what you do not want to know...

Anyway police to busy looking for real criminals ...old expat granddads & grannies playing bridge.

You came all the way back to this thread to put the "playing bridge" referance in. Amazing Thai Visa.

You don't play Bridge then...?

Used to play for a couple of hours an evening at work for the British government being paid overtime. Doesn't mean the reference remains witty for ever. Time and place. Is this one going to take over from "Two Burmese, Thainess, A Thai couldn't do that"? Gets a bit tiredsome. Forgive any grammar mostakes, sure they will be corrected in further posts.

[ffaarraanngg]

"An open verdict is NOT an answer that we are happy with nor one Luke will be laid to rest with. This verdict is due to insufficient findings do to the embalming and so we wait with baited breath for the reports from the Thai authorities. An open verdict can also be given on the basis that a death is suspicious but there are insufficient findings to ascertain why or how it has happened. So our fight will continue until we get the answers we know are there. There have been too many stories told to us already, to many lies and too many fabrications. We are all prepared to fight for Luke and we will get answers." Nichola Gissing Justice for Luke (Facebook)

What are they going to do to get answers and fight for justice.

A letter to the MP is pointless as they're all useless, and Daves already been laughed at by the Thai PM in relation to the Witheridge/Miller case.

The Thais are as thick as thieves and don't give a shyt, so they won't help.

They arent likely to go back and seek CCTV as they've already been told there is none.

Sad case that they may just have to accept he's been done in and there is nothing anyone will do and move on ... or some vigilante justice!

[smedly]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

What is more probable is that an altercation took place, the guy was beaten up and chucked in the pool to drown. Not murder per se but manslaughter.

Not proven... but could of happened.

Unfortunately Thailand is now governed in a way that you do not seek what you do not want to know...

Anyway police to busy looking for real criminals ...old expat granddads & grannies playing bridge.

I find it more likely that he was set upon by a gang of coward thugs and when he didn't like the odds did a runner to the pool area to escape, from there the possibilities are endless, at some point he ended up in the pool and was found dead

The police came up with a theory of what could have happened, for that theory to work it has to be consistent with the injuries on Luke, the family claim it is not and since the police claim there are no witnesses or cctv then it is left with questions that will remain unanswered, the UK coroner report will identify all injuries found on his body but they will not try to match those with the Thai police theory of what happened as it is not their responsibility to do so, so what you will see in the report are observed injuries a,b,c,d etc none of which were the cause of death - conclusion none - consistent with the Thai police theory - no comment

What the report will do however is confirm that the reported injuries by family were indeed correct - how they happened is another matter

[alanrchase]

^ Complaining about posters making suppositions, and countering them with a post full of suppositions.....interesting tactic.

Anyway, one thing you got right is no news about the autopsy report being released yet (I did a search last night). But then you spoiled even that by making a supposition that this means it supports the RTP vrsion of events. Oh well.....

What is more probable is that an altercation took place, the guy was beaten up and chucked in the pool to drown. Not murder per se but manslaughter.

Not proven... but could of happened.

Unfortunately Thailand is now governed in a way that you do not seek what you do not want to know...

Anyway police to busy looking for real criminals ...old expat granddads & grannies playing bridge.

I find it more likely that he was set upon by a gang of coward thugs and when he didn't like the odds did a runner to the pool area to escape, from there the possibilities are endless, at some point he ended up in the pool and was found dead

The police came up with a theory of what could have happened, for that theory to work it has to be consistent with the injuries on Luke, the family claim it is not and since the police claim there are no witnesses or cctv then it is left with questions that will remain unanswered, the UK coroner report will identify all injuries found on his body but they will not try to match those with the Thai police theory of what happened as it is not their responsibility to do so, so what you will see in the report are observed injuries a,b,c,d etc none of which were the cause of death - conclusion none - consistent with the Thai police theory - no comment

What the report will do however is confirm that the reported injuries by family were indeed correct - how they happened is another matter

Wonderful interpretation. Could be right could be wrong. "Didn't like the odds"?

[SoiBiker]

I'd have thought there was an inquest too, it's fairly standard procedure when a Brit dies abroad.

I expect there will be in due course.

I'd presume there is one ongoing. The usual approach is to open one when the death occurs and then adjourn it so that the necessary proceedings can take place.

[IslandLover]

I'd have thought there was an inquest too, it's fairly standard procedure when a Brit dies abroad.

I expect there will be in due course.

Sorry for my ignorance, but the coroner's verdict as reported by a previous poster should only be taken as an opinion? There will be an inquest to follow?

I would think so. The British Coroner is still waiting for the autopsy and toxicology reports from Thailand. The family has been told this could take several months. It is not without precedent. The same thing happened in the case of Hannah Witheridge, and another British tourist who died in Thailand in 2013. This is far from over. Apart from that, I have heard the police investigation in Koh Tao is still ongoing.

[alanrchase]

I'd have thought there was an inquest too, it's fairly standard procedure when a Brit dies abroad.

I expect there will be in due course.

Sorry for my ignorance, but the coroner's verdict as reported by a previous poster should only be taken as an opinion? There will be an inquest to follow?

I would think so. The British Coroner is still waiting for the autopsy and toxicology reports from Thailand. The family has been told this could take several months. It is not without precedent. The same thing happened in the case of Hannah Witheridge, and another British tourist who died in Thailand in 2013. This is far from over. Apart from that, I have heard the police investigation in Koh Tao is still ongoing.

I accept your reply but would question the previous posters statement of an open verdict. A verdict is a verdict isn't it? Why did the poster not call it an opinion?

[Moonsterk]

I'd have thought there was an inquest too, it's fairly standard procedure when a Brit dies abroad.

I expect there will be in due course.

Sorry for my ignorance, but the coroner's verdict as reported by a previous poster should only be taken as an opinion? There will be an inquest to follow?

I would think so. The British Coroner is still waiting for the autopsy and toxicology reports from Thailand. The family has been told this could take several months. It is not without precedent. The same thing happened in the case of Hannah Witheridge, and another British tourist who died in Thailand in 2013. This is far from over. Apart from that, I have heard the police investigation in Koh Tao is still ongoing.

Really? Cause I heard the Thai police have issued their declaration-accidental drowning due to misadventure from impairment of judgement. The case is closed and sent the docs with Miller's body, weeks ago and the UK coroner has no reason whatsoever to declare the death anything but an accident. All wounds and bruising are consistent with a tumble from several meters high, an encounter with barbed wire, and hitting the head with sufficient force on the edge of the pool to render unconsciousness, and possibly other parts of the body were also bruised, and then death from drowning.

Yep, that's what I heard.

[Moonsterk]

Now the latest info or dis-info rather, is " the autopsy reports are being held up by Thai authorities as they are still looking into the case.....Luke was embalmed so no new tests could be done...."

I heard...

What they are actually looking into and awaiting are some remaining toxicology reports- different from autopsy notes, as to what if any illegal drugs Luke was on at the time of his death, and if so, where did he get them.

The original declaration of accidental death remains and Thailand does not embalm bodies before shipping.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Moonsterk

[stephenterry]

The UK coroner didn't declare an accident, but and open verdict. Get the facts aligned with the spurious hearsay. And I agree the death is suspicious.

[Moonsterk]

The UK coroner didn't declare an accident, but and open verdict. Get the facts aligned with the spurious hearsay. And I agree the death is suspicious.

Open verdict, i.e. is not murdered, but simply circumstances how death occurred not established. It's a polite way of appeasing the families. Incidentally, the sister was writing on one fb page, or another her father is doing the UK autopsy, again not knowing what an autopsy is, and exposing either outright lies, or a very unprofessional medical worker.

Sorry but my opinion is Luke's friends have done him a disservice with all the innuendo, hysterics and dis-information. While certainly the possibility exists he may have met with foul play, the actions of the traveling companions confronting and very publicly disrespecting police has pretty much guaranteed any further investigations will not occur.

I do not condone that Thai police act like this, and think it is unprofessional, but it's a fact that must be worked around.

[alanrchase]

The UK coroner didn't declare an accident, but and open verdict. Get the facts aligned with the spurious hearsay. And I agree the death is suspicious.

Open verdict, i.e. is not murdered, but simply circumstances how death occurred not established. It's a polite way of appeasing the families. Incidentally, the sister was writing on one fb page, or another her father is doing the UK autopsy, again not knowing what an autopsy is, and exposing either outright lies, or a very unprofessional medical worker.

Sorry but my opinion is Luke's friends have done him a disservice with all the innuendo, hysterics and dis-information. While certainly the possibility exists he may have met with foul play, the actions of the traveling companions confronting and very publicly disrespecting police has pretty much guaranteed any further investigations will not occur.

I do not condone that Thai police act like this, and think it is unprofessional, but it's a fact that must be worked around.

Open verdict leaves all possibilities on the table, all it means is no conclusive proof of what happened.

[stephenterry]

It is not the coroner's job to appease the family but to ascertain how death occurred. In Luke's case the embalming prevented that. The FCO should have explained that to the family, who could have requested that the body was repatriated without as the death was suspicious according to them.

[stephenterry]

Trust the koh tao Rtp No way.

[TheLobster]

Really? Cause I heard the Thai police have issued their declaration-accidental drowning due to misadventure from impairment of judgement. The case is closed and sent the docs with Miller's body, weeks ago and the UK coroner has no reason whatsoever to declare the death anything but an accident. All wounds and bruising are consistent with a tumble from several meters high, an encounter with barbed wire, and hitting the head with sufficient force on the edge of the pool to render unconsciousness, and possibly other parts of the body were also bruised, and then death from drowning.

Yep, that's what I heard.

The verdict means the coroner confirms the death is suspicious, but was unable to reach any other verdicts open to them.

[SoiBiker]

Really? Cause I heard the Thai police have issued their declaration-accidental drowning due to misadventure from impairment of judgement. The case is closed and sent the docs with Miller's body, weeks ago and the UK coroner has no reason whatsoever to declare the death anything but an accident. All wounds and bruising are consistent with a tumble from several meters high, an encounter with barbed wire, and hitting the head with sufficient force on the edge of the pool to render unconsciousness, and possibly other parts of the body were also bruised, and then death from drowning.

Yep, that's what I heard.

The verdict means the coroner confirms the death is suspicious, but was unable to reach any other verdicts open to them.

In this context, a suspicious death does not necessarily imply suspicion of foul play, but merely that the death was unexpected and unexplained.

[smedly]

I expect there will be in due course.

Sorry for my ignorance, but the coroner's verdict as reported by a previous poster should only be taken as an opinion? There will be an inquest to follow?

I would think so. The British Coroner is still waiting for the autopsy and toxicology reports from Thailand. The family has been told this could take several months. It is not without precedent. The same thing happened in the case of Hannah Witheridge, and another British tourist who died in Thailand in 2013. This is far from over. Apart from that, I have heard the police investigation in Koh Tao is still ongoing.

Really? Cause I heard the Thai police have issued their declaration-accidental drowning due to misadventure from impairment of judgement. The case is closed and sent the docs with Miller's body, weeks ago and the UK coroner has no reason whatsoever to declare the death anything but an accident. All wounds and bruising are consistent with a tumble from several meters high, an encounter with barbed wire, and hitting the head with sufficient force on the edge of the pool to render unconsciousness, and possibly other parts of the body were also bruised, and then death from drowning.

Yep, that's what I heard.

all of it is speculation including the police and your version of possibilities, you and the police were not there when this person died, the only sound evidence is that the injuries do not fit with yours and the police version of events and since there were no witnesses and no cctv (according to the police) all of it is speculation except what the family and friends have said as they saw the body - injuries that are not consistent with a fall into a swimming pool, I have been swimming from the age of three and never got a bruise from jumping diving into a swimming pool even from a 30m diving board, also the claimed jump from the disco box and hitting anything but water is rubbish, the disco box on the near side is level with the pool so even if he dropped straight down he would still hit water

The UK report would have listed all the injuries they found on the body, there would be no way to determine if these injuries occurred at the scene and were part of a possible assault at that time or from a few days before, if a coroner cannot come to a decisive conclusion as to how and when these injuries occurred they will not speculate beyond what is reasonable and basically conclude nothing - they will rarely speculate

All that is really known (or has been disclosed) about this incident is - that he was found dead in a swimming pool and he had bruising on his body as observed by friends and family - nothing else is known and that is the problem with this whole thing, nobody saw heard anything and cctv does not exist...........nothing except a dead body was found floating in a pool - I for one find that highly suspicious IMO

[alanrchase]

I expect there will be in due course.

Sorry for my ignorance, but the coroner's verdict as reported by a previous poster should only be taken as an opinion? There will be an inquest to follow?

I would think so. The British Coroner is still waiting for the autopsy and toxicology reports from Thailand. The family has been told this could take several months. It is not without precedent. The same thing happened in the case of Hannah Witheridge, and another British tourist who died in Thailand in 2013. This is far from over. Apart from that, I have heard the police investigation in Koh Tao is still ongoing.

Really? Cause I heard the Thai police have issued their declaration-accidental drowning due to misadventure from impairment of judgement. The case is closed and sent the docs with Miller's body, weeks ago and the UK coroner has no reason whatsoever to declare the death anything but an accident. All wounds and bruising are consistent with a tumble from several meters high, an encounter with barbed wire, and hitting the head with sufficient force on the edge of the pool to render unconsciousness, and possibly other parts of the body were also bruised, and then death from drowning.
Yep, that's what I heard.

all of it is speculation including the police and your version of possibilities, you and the police were not there when this person died, the only sound evidence is that the injuries do not fit with yours and the police version of events and since there were no witnesses and no cctv (according to the police) all of it is speculation except what the family and friends have said as they saw the body - injuries that are not consistent with a fall into a swimming pool, I have been swimming from the age of three and never got a bruise from jumping diving into a swimming pool even from a 30m diving board, also the claimed jump from the disco box and hitting anything but water is rubbish, the disco box on the near side is level with the pool so even if he dropped straight down he would still hit water

The UK report would have listed all the injuries they found on the body, there would be no way to determine if these injuries occurred at the scene and were part of a possible assault at that time or from a few days before, if a coroner cannot come to a decisive conclusion as to how and when these injuries occurred they will not speculate beyond what is reasonable and basically conclude nothing - they will rarely speculate

All that is really known (or has been disclosed) about this incident is - that he was found dead in a swimming pool and he had bruising on his body as observed by friends and family - nothing else is known and that is the problem with this whole thing, nobody saw heard anything and cctv does not exist...........nothing except a dead body was found floating in a pool - I for one find that highly suspicious IMO

Where do you get "the only sound evidence " from? Surely that is speculation?

[smedly]

all of it is speculation including the police and your version of possibilities, you and the police were not there when this person died, the only sound evidence is that the injuries do not fit with yours and the police version of events and since there were no witnesses and no cctv (according to the police) all of it is speculation except what the family and friends have said as they saw the body - injuries that are not consistent with a fall into a swimming pool, I have been swimming from the age of three and never got a bruise from jumping diving into a swimming pool even from a 30m diving board, also the claimed jump from the disco box and hitting anything but water is rubbish, the disco box on the near side is level with the pool so even if he dropped straight down he would still hit water

The UK report would have listed all the injuries they found on the body, there would be no way to determine if these injuries occurred at the scene and were part of a possible assault at that time or from a few days before, if a coroner cannot come to a decisive conclusion as to how and when these injuries occurred they will not speculate beyond what is reasonable and basically conclude nothing - they will rarely speculate

All that is really known (or has been disclosed) about this incident is - that he was found dead in a swimming pool and he had bruising on his body as observed by friends and family - nothing else is known and that is the problem with this whole thing, nobody saw heard anything and cctv does not exist...........nothing except a dead body was found floating in a pool - I for one find that highly suspicious IMO

Where do you get "the only sound evidence " from? Surely that is speculation?

It is what the family and friends observed on the body and somehow the police excluded to mention so it is not speculation, if you want to accuse them of telling lies then that is entirely different

[alanrchase]

all of it is speculation including the police and your version of possibilities, you and the police were not there when this person died, the only sound evidence is that the injuries do not fit with yours and the police version of events and since there were no witnesses and no cctv (according to the police) all of it is speculation except what the family and friends have said as they saw the body - injuries that are not consistent with a fall into a swimming pool, I have been swimming from the age of three and never got a bruise from jumping diving into a swimming pool even from a 30m diving board, also the claimed jump from the disco box and hitting anything but water is rubbish, the disco box on the near side is level with the pool so even if he dropped straight down he would still hit water

The UK report would have listed all the injuries they found on the body, there would be no way to determine if these injuries occurred at the scene and were part of a possible assault at that time or from a few days before, if a coroner cannot come to a decisive conclusion as to how and when these injuries occurred they will not speculate beyond what is reasonable and basically conclude nothing - they will rarely speculate

All that is really known (or has been disclosed) about this incident is - that he was found dead in a swimming pool and he had bruising on his body as observed by friends and family - nothing else is known and that is the problem with this whole thing, nobody saw heard anything and cctv does not exist...........nothing except a dead body was found floating in a pool - I for one find that highly suspicious IMO

Where do you get "the only sound evidence " from? Surely that is speculation?

It is what the family and friends observed on the body and somehow the police excluded to mention so it is not speculation, if you want to accuse them of telling lies then that is entirely different

Not accusing anyone of anything. But sound evidence seems to not exist. Speculation on your part.