jpinx Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 One point I've not seen mentioned in this thread (although I only skimmed many of the pages) is that in many areas/cases rental is MUCH cheaper than buying a similar property... For example, where I live there are loads of 30+ year old beach front townhouses (3 & 1/2 floors plus full roof terrace) for rent at around 5-6,000 /month... OK, they're bit shabby but location is fabulous. They're for sale at around 2.5-3 million... and would require a further 1 MM+ to make them perfect. Some have been "done-up" and are asking 4-5 (but with little interest). The big disadvantage with renting such as this is that it's difficult (as a renter) to justify spending on maintenance/improvement with only a 1 year lease, and there's always a risk that they'll get sold or the rents increased (although rents have not been increased for the last 5-6 years). I've seen plenty of "Thai-style" houses in many slightly more remote locations where renting beats buying (even if we could), as long as you're prepared to put up with a slightly scruffy place. It only seems to be the "expat" enclaves where renting is on a par with buying... Indeed -- for comparison, I bought a house in Peru many years ago -- 250 metres from the beach, 5 bedrooms all en-suite, smallish yard, but the whole beach to myself because it was unknown except to locals. Cost next to nothing. After about 3 years the surfers discovered it and things went bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachproperty Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 No No -- first it was at about 7%, and then it eased down to just over 5% and now it's back up to 6.6%. Do try to keep up All in a few days???? There goes your credibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 No No -- first it was at about 7%, and then it eased down to just over 5% and now it's back up to 6.6%. Do try to keep up All in a few days???? There goes your credibility Nothing short term here That's been over the last nine years or there-abouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig krup Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 On the issue of "My landlord might want me to move out if I rent" it's worth noting that the other possibility and this one are "asymmetric". It's a damn sight more likely that you'll want to move than that the landlord will want you to move. Landlords see all tenants bearing rent who won't smash the place up as equivalent. They don't care who gives them the 10,000 baht, or whatever. But not all 10,000 baht properties are equivalent from the point of view of the renter. You fall out with the girlfriend's brothers or the cops, a scooter maintenance yard or a nightclub opens up, the air quality deteriorates, you meet the person of your dreams who is visiting for the weekend and lives 300 miles away........ Landlords might want you to move, and you might want to move, but the second is an awful lot more likely than the first. Think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip66 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 So - punchline - almost every rational farang will rent. and irrational Farangs are willing to pay for the luxury of being able to make any changes according to their whims Thai wivies/girlfriends.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HampiK Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 in this context please note that "one man might consider a million to be a fortune, another man might consider a million to be peanuts." Are we talking Baht, $$s, Euro or GBP? A village Thai would probably consider a million baht to be a fortune. Doubt you'd find many falangs that would. I think you would be surprised how many farangs would think 1 million baht is a fortune....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papayasalad Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 near my home it was quiet. one day a recycle company came and now it s noisy, noise of steel, trucks even coming at night. sometimes I wake up because I hear guys unloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 near my home it was quiet. one day a recycle company came and now it s noisy, noise of steel, trucks even coming at night. sometimes I wake up because I hear guys unloading. The joys of ownership - especially after you might have spent lots of time and money getting your "home" just the way you want it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 near my home it was quiet. one day a recycle company came and now it s noisy, noise of steel, trucks even coming at night. sometimes I wake up because I hear guys unloading. The joys of ownership - especially after you might have spent lots of time and money getting your "home" just the way you want it.... since my twenties I always owned, I guess it is an aspect of my personality, and I will always will. But in Thailand you do have the zoning problem. We Own two pieces of property a few minutes outside Khon Kaen. One in my wife's village, the houses are close together, and an other one just outside the village, it was an ideal location for me , very peaceful , plenty of room, 15 min to Khon Kaen proper. I was planing to build a nice little house there, already had a nice fence around it. A couple of months the set up a Cement factory right behind our property. Now that property is useless,I dont even think I can sell it. My only hope for it is that the cement co behind it goes out of business, Owning is the only way to go for me. Perhaps rent for a short time, but not a long term solution, But in Thailand I would not invest more than I can comfortably afford to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 near my home it was quiet. one day a recycle company came and now it s noisy, noise of steel, trucks even coming at night. sometimes I wake up because I hear guys unloading. The joys of ownership - especially after you might have spent lots of time and money getting your "home" just the way you want it.... since my twenties I always owned, I guess it is an aspect of my personality, and I will always will. But in Thailand you do have the zoning problem. We Own two pieces of property a few minutes outside Khon Kaen. One in my wife's village, the houses are close together, and an other one just outside the village, it was an ideal location for me , very peaceful , plenty of room, 15 min to Khon Kaen proper. I was planing to build a nice little house there, already had a nice fence around it. A couple of months the set up a Cement factory right behind our property. Now that property is useless,I dont even think I can sell it. My only hope for it is that the cement co behind it goes out of business, Owning is the only way to go for me. Perhaps rent for a short time, but not a long term solution, But in Thailand I would not invest more than I can comfortably afford to lose. Hopefully others will learn from your experiences - even if you don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HampiK Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 near my home it was quiet. one day a recycle company came and now it s noisy, noise of steel, trucks even coming at night. sometimes I wake up because I hear guys unloading. The joys of ownership - especially after you might have spent lots of time and money getting your "home" just the way you want it.... since my twenties I always owned, I guess it is an aspect of my personality, and I will always will. But in Thailand you do have the zoning problem. We Own two pieces of property a few minutes outside Khon Kaen. One in my wife's village, the houses are close together, and an other one just outside the village, it was an ideal location for me , very peaceful , plenty of room, 15 min to Khon Kaen proper. I was planing to build a nice little house there, already had a nice fence around it. A couple of months the set up a Cement factory right behind our property. Now that property is useless,I dont even think I can sell it. My only hope for it is that the cement co behind it goes out of business, Owning is the only way to go for me. Perhaps rent for a short time, but not a long term solution, But in Thailand I would not invest more than I can comfortably afford to lose. Hopefully others will learn from your experiences - even if you don't And what he should learn... that everywhere things like this could happen. Therefore never buy land? I not know where you from, but I think even in most homecountries things like this could happen... that is one of the risks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 since my twenties I always owned, I guess it is an aspect of my personality, and I will always will. But in Thailand you do have the zoning problem. We Own two pieces of property a few minutes outside Khon Kaen. One in my wife's village, the houses are close together, and an other one just outside the village, it was an ideal location for me , very peaceful , plenty of room, 15 min to Khon Kaen proper. I was planing to build a nice little house there, already had a nice fence around it. A couple of months the set up a Cement factory right behind our property. Now that property is useless,I dont even think I can sell it. My only hope for it is that the cement co behind it goes out of business, Owning is the only way to go for me. Perhaps rent for a short time, but not a long term solution, But in Thailand I would not invest more than I can comfortably afford to lose. Hopefully others will learn from your experiences - even if you don't And what he should learn... that everywhere things like this could happen. Therefore never buy land? I not know where you from, but I think even in most homecountries things like this could happen... that is one of the risks..... Well -- in Thailand it's a moot point since a farang can not buy land anyway. In any purchase of property it is necessary to perform due diligence on the area, and not just go on heresay. Every country is different and things like zoning would need to be understood fully. In Thailand -- as I said -- the farang is never the owner, so he has no say in the purchase procedure If you think it is a risk -- don't buy -- just rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnMyWay2 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 In Thailand you almost need to buy multiple places. Being stuck in the same condo is not very appealing because something always goes wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 In Thailand you almost need to buy multiple places. Being stuck in the same condo is not very appealing because something always goes wrong. So you sell the condo where something has "gone wrong" and take a loss and then buy another condo where something else will go wrong later,,,? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig krup Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 In Thailand you almost need to buy multiple places. Being stuck in the same condo is not very appealing because something always goes wrong. So you sell the condo where something has "gone wrong" and take a loss and then buy another condo where something else will go wrong later,,,? With 3 and 6 month leases standard I'd have thought renting was the way forward. As an aside, has anyone tried to avoid a security deposit by 1) pointing out that you're the dude in the passport photocopy who could be arrested every three months without difficulty, and 2) offering to pay a bit extra on the rent? Moving regularly would be real hassle if you spent all your time arguing about security deposits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 near my home it was quiet. one day a recycle company came and now it s noisy, noise of steel, trucks even coming at night. sometimes I wake up because I hear guys unloading. The joys of ownership - especially after you might have spent lots of time and money getting your "home" just the way you want it.... since my twenties I always owned, I guess it is an aspect of my personality, and I will always will. But in Thailand you do have the zoning problem. We Own two pieces of property a few minutes outside Khon Kaen. One in my wife's village, the houses are close together, and an other one just outside the village, it was an ideal location for me , very peaceful , plenty of room, 15 min to Khon Kaen proper. I was planing to build a nice little house there, already had a nice fence around it. A couple of months the set up a Cement factory right behind our property. Now that property is useless,I dont even think I can sell it. My only hope for it is that the cement co behind it goes out of business, Owning is the only way to go for me. Perhaps rent for a short time, but not a long term solution, But in Thailand I would not invest more than I can comfortably afford to lose. Hopefully others will learn from your experiences - even if you don't Nothing new to learn, I was always aware of the risks in Thailand. The property cost me about 15,000 usd about 5 years ago, the price of a inexpensive car in the US, so no big deal. I am not happy , I can think of better things to do with $15,000, but I am not so unhappy that I would let it affect me, or would I ever let compromise the way I live. I like to own, I guess I never outgrew the "mine, mine" stage But seriously, Owning puts you in a different frame of mind, there is no pride of ownership in renting, you are not going to landscape, someone else's, house, it might be cheaper to rent and if you saved all this money you might be better off, but the fact is that most dont Owning creates forced financial discipline ., I would never be where I am if I had not entered the property ladder, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 In Thailand you almost need to buy multiple places. Being stuck in the same condo is not very appealing because something always goes wrong. So you sell the condo where something has "gone wrong" and take a loss and then buy another condo where something else will go wrong later,,,? With 3 and 6 month leases standard I'd have thought renting was the way forward. As an aside, has anyone tried to avoid a security deposit by 1) pointing out that you're the dude in the passport photocopy who could be arrested every three months without difficulty, and 2) offering to pay a bit extra on the rent? Moving regularly would be real hassle if you spent all your time arguing about security deposits. Deposit is returnable, so why would someone try to avoid it? The landlord needs to know you're going to pay the damages after the welcome home party.! There is a commonly-held view that landlords are out to get you at every turn, but the reality is that the vast majority of tenants are out to get the landlord. Every day I see apartment doors sealed to prevent a tenant who has not paid his rent from removing his goodies. Tenants reap what they sow...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 since my twenties I always owned, I guess it is an aspect of my personality, and I will always will. But in Thailand you do have the zoning problem. We Own two pieces of property a few minutes outside Khon Kaen. One in my wife's village, the houses are close together, and an other one just outside the village, it was an ideal location for me , very peaceful , plenty of room, 15 min to Khon Kaen proper. I was planing to build a nice little house there, already had a nice fence around it. A couple of months the set up a Cement factory right behind our property. Now that property is useless,I dont even think I can sell it. My only hope for it is that the cement co behind it goes out of business, Owning is the only way to go for me. Perhaps rent for a short time, but not a long term solution, But in Thailand I would not invest more than I can comfortably afford to lose. Hopefully others will learn from your experiences - even if you don't Nothing new to learn, I was always aware of the risks in Thailand. The property cost me about 15,000 usd about 5 years ago, the price of a inexpensive car in the US, so no big deal. I am not happy , I can think of better things to do with $15,000, but I am not so unhappy that I would let it affect me, or would I ever let compromise the way I live. I like to own, I guess I never outgrew the "mine, mine" stage But seriously, Owning puts you in a different frame of mind, there is no pride of ownership in renting, you are not going to landscape, someone else's, house, it might be cheaper to rent and if you saved all this money you might be better off, but the fact is that most dont Owning creates forced financial discipline ., I would never be where I am if I had not entered the property ladder, Renting can put you in a better frame of mind, where the responsibility for making your place better is shared between you and the landlord. Too many tenants do not perform due diligence on the landlord and then complain when they have a "bad" one. Like everything else in life - - it's up to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 In Thailand you almost need to buy multiple places. Being stuck in the same condo is not very appealing because something always goes wrong. So you sell the condo where something has "gone wrong" and take a loss and then buy another condo where something else will go wrong later,,,? With 3 and 6 month leases standard I'd have thought renting was the way forward. As an aside, has anyone tried to avoid a security deposit by 1) pointing out that you're the dude in the passport photocopy who could be arrested every three months without difficulty, and 2) offering to pay a bit extra on the rent? Moving regularly would be real hassle if you spent all your time arguing about security deposits. Deposit is returnable, so why would someone try to avoid it? The landlord needs to know you're going to pay the damages after the welcome home party.! There is a commonly-held view that landlords are out to get you at every turn, but the reality is that the vast majority of tenants are out to get the landlord. Every day I see apartment doors sealed to prevent a tenant who has not paid his rent from removing his goodies. Tenants reap what they sow...... Probably those Bt3-4000 a month apartments whose tenants live on daily wages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi850m2 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Some people only think about money, investments and so on. For us here with wife & kids, the house is not a money investment but an investment for us to have a nice place to stay we call Home. I don't understand that somebody have such a hard time understand that? Well frankly I don't care too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Probably those Bt3-4000 a month apartments whose tenants live on daily wages... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's a very high horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig krup Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Deposit is returnable, so why would someone try to avoid it? The landlord needs to know you're going to pay the damages after the welcome home party.! My experience is that people are a lot happier receiving money than they are in handing it back. Lots of landlords view deposits as additional income. Could you be bothered hanging around somewhere you didn't want to live in order to sue someone? Would you be confident that this act wouldn't make you a very problematic enemy? Do you think a landlord would care about reputational damage if almost all the tenants were Thai and you were the farang who moaned that they kept your deposit? It's a bit different if almost everyone is a farang - your moaning is a major problem, so you'll probably get the dough back. But if you were in Phayao and moving to Chiang Mai with the bus leaving in one hour, and you're standing with your stuff, how likely is it - do you think - that someone without much is going to hand someone with much (say) 12,000 baht? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Deposit is returnable, so why would someone try to avoid it? The landlord needs to know you're going to pay the damages after the welcome home party.! My experience is that people are a lot happier receiving money than they are in handing it back. Lots of landlords view deposits as additional income. Could you be bothered hanging around somewhere you didn't want to live in order to sue someone? Would you be confident that this act wouldn't make you a very problematic enemy? Do you think a landlord would care about reputational damage if almost all the tenants were Thai and you were the farang who moaned that they kept your deposit? It's a bit different if almost everyone is a farang - your moaning is a major problem, so you'll probably get the dough back. But if you were in Phayao and moving to Chiang Mai with the bus leaving in one hour, and you're standing with your stuff, how likely is it - do you think - that someone without much is going to hand someone with much (say) 12,000 baht? That scenario is a rather abrupt and ill-planned move. Normally when moving house it is planned and the landlord told well in advance - indeed the rental contract may well have a clause about notice being required either way. The comparison between owning and renting is muddied by the different behaviours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Deposit is returnable, so why would someone try to avoid it? The landlord needs to know you're going to pay the damages after the welcome home party.! My experience is that people are a lot happier receiving money than they are in handing it back. Lots of landlords view deposits as additional income. Could you be bothered hanging around somewhere you didn't want to live in order to sue someone? Would you be confident that this act wouldn't make you a very problematic enemy? Do you think a landlord would care about reputational damage if almost all the tenants were Thai and you were the farang who moaned that they kept your deposit? It's a bit different if almost everyone is a farang - your moaning is a major problem, so you'll probably get the dough back. But if you were in Phayao and moving to Chiang Mai with the bus leaving in one hour, and you're standing with your stuff, how likely is it - do you think - that someone without much is going to hand someone with much (say) 12,000 baht? "But if you were in Phayao and moving to Chiang Mai with the bus leaving in one hour, and you're standing with your stuff, how likely is it - do you think - that someone without much is going to hand someone with much (say) 12,000"This is the mentality of one who is checking out of a hotel. Perhaps the lost of deposit can be counted as part of the cost of residing, the total being cheaper than a year's stay at a hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul944 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 A different thread is about making a profit renting out condo's. If the landlord is making a profit it is economic to buy. However buying property has 2 big disadvantages: Very unpredictable value development. Don't expect a value increase of rural property. Buying is easy but selling can take a very long time. Buying a place in Thailand will be economical in the center of big cities only. The other reasons to buy can be: - The money is available and you do not want to worry about investing and stock markets. - The freedom to change whatever you like in the garden and house. - You do not have the intention to move. Buying with the intention to move out within 15 years is a bad idea. - Having a Thai partner. Without Thai partner buying as a foreigner becomes very complicated. I personally would like to have my own place. My decision will be based on the fact if I can afford it, not if it will be be economical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig krup Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 If the landlord is making a profit it is economic to buy. This isn't true. The wholesaler makes a profit but you shouldn't stockpile 3,000 loo rolls. The plant hire company makes a profit but you probably shouldn't own a cement mixer. You and your landlord differ in a hundred ways. She may be able to get better deals on maintenance than you could, and - given that she competes with others who can also do this - can (must) pass these on to her tenants. She probably doesn't have a right of residence in the UK, US, Australia or EU, so probably will never want to sell, while you might. If I buy your car it doesn't mean that one of us is making a mistake. I might have more use for the car than the money, and you might have more use for the money than the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 - Having a Thai partner. Without Thai partner buying as a foreigner becomes very complicated. Not for condos. Not everyone even wants to live in a house here (I dont, for one, due to the security and maintenance issues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Not everyone even wants to live in a house here (I dont, for one, due to the security and maintenance issues). Lived in houses around CM for 5+ years, no security or maintenance problems. The house my wife bought 2-3 years back, we've replaced a few shower hoses, and new wheels on the drive gate. Less than 1,000bht in total. Half the time we don't even lock the door when we go out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Not everyone even wants to live in a house here (I dont, for one, due to the security and maintenance issues). Lived in houses around CM for 5+ years, no security or maintenance problems. The house my wife bought 2-3 years back, we've replaced a few shower hoses, and new wheels on the drive gate. Less than 1,000bht in total. Half the time we don't even lock the door when we go out. It seems that Chiang Mai may be a good place as far as security goes but house burglaries occur daily in Pattaya, though very rarely indeed in condos. However I do not live in Chiang Mai. I am not interested in having to do any maintenance of any type on my property, apart from internal decoration etc., as I value the possibility of being able to leave my property for weeks or months or even years without having to think about it or its contents. I could not do this in a house here, unless I also employed household staff of some type which is also something that I have no interest in doing. I have no interest in living in a house due to the inherent security and maintenance issues. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfish Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I bought my place when the Australian Dollar was strong but it's now heading to 50cents. I will sell it then and even at a loss I will make a massive profit on the exchange rate!! I feel truly sorry for the non USA renters, watching your money vanish as the exchange rate continues to pump in the wrong direction :-( Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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