Questions about Thai dowry - and what else to ask

[1FinickyOne]

Thank you to all for your great replies and helpful information. I've also received some great advice via PM.

For me - i live in Thailand - I am happy to pay what is fair to pay for what is important to a family - their tradition. Their is a portion of people on here who want to argue its not Thai tradition etc - please tell that to Thai people. Their is another portion of people here who think Sinsod is here to rip of Farangs - again not the case.

My girl is very traditional in many ways and it would hardly be a good start to my marriage denying a family a tradition that has been their way for a long time.

I will be going on the 27th of this month.

I spoke with my girl last night about all of this and her exact reply was "dont worry about any of this - everything will go smooth. My mom understands this is not your tradition and that we are startling our life together"

I agree - I have been to enough local weddings Thai and Thai and yes, sin sod is always included. It sounds like your wife has taken care of everything and indeed no need to worry… if that is your wedding at the end of the month - congratulations and best of luck to you...

[BlindMagician]

Best advice - talk to your fiancee about it, not strangers. You should be able to talk to her and have a real and open discussion about it. Then after you two decide, check its ok with both sets of parents, but you two should know if its ok or not before asking your parents. End of.

Different people from different backgrounds and different personal circumstances and different personal thoughts will give you different advice in terms of pay this or pay that. But their advice is referenced against all their personally specific cases - not yours.

[BlindMagician]

Congratulations, and have a happy life ... I forgot that bit :-)

[Mitkof Island]

Tottaly agree it nothing more than a scam. Think this guy will be smart enough to RUN ? Doubt it!

The dowry is an age-old scam. It's also a strong signal to break your relationship now, before it's too late.

[BKResort]

Talk with your GF about, she probably knows what her parents are expecting from you, and what you can expect from them. A good start for a good marriage.

[backtothailand]

Tottaly agree it nothing more than a scam. Think this guy will be smart enough to RUN ? Doubt it!

The dowry is an age-old scam. It's also a strong signal to break your relationship now, before it's too late.

Why would i run from the girl i love and adore? I think if everyone followed that advice we would have an awful lot of single people in the world.

[mgjackson69]

Circumstances vary. I gave my Thai GF 600 K to build her house. To me, it's money well spent because it's her dream. She has never asked me for money for any of her relatives.

Perhaps the OP should use a different perspective. That is, what can he afford to walk away from if things go pear-shaped. If Sin Sod is a necessary component of the marriage, what is reasonable?

Due to the cultural differences, one may end up with a pearl or a lemon. Hard to tell.

I totally agree with you but..............when it goes pear- shaped not if !!!!!!!

"If" is correct

[jacko45k]

You get every single baht, penny satang, kroner, shilling, dollar, cent you have in the world, put it is a sack and hand it over on the morning of the wedding......

Then go away.

[mgjackson69]

It is not a tradition. It is a scam on foreigners.

If that is case, then explain why Thai men pay a sinsod

[richard_smith237]

Directly responding to the Op:

My Wife 3 years younger than I. Never married, no kids etc. Thammarsat Masters Graduate. Wealthy, respected and connected family.

Dept Primeminister numerous politicians & celebs at the wedding of approx 1000 people.

I paid 400,000 baht, which was just a small amount for the sake of tradition. I insisted the sum was not announced. It was also returned.

I'm enjoying a mutually respectful & warm relationship with my in laws.

Married 7 years.

[Dancealot]

Tottaly agree it nothing more than a scam. Think this guy will be smart enough to RUN ? Doubt it!

The dowry is an age-old scam. It's also a strong signal to break your relationship now, before it's too late.

Why would i run from the girl i love and adore? I think if everyone followed that advice we would have an awful lot of single people in the world.

That's what seperates the men from the boys. Men will use reason above feelings; Boys make mistakes which turns them into men.

[Robert24]

Directly responding to the Op:

My Wife 3 years younger than I. Never married, no kids etc. Thammarsat Masters Graduate. Wealthy, respected and connected family.

Dept Primeminister numerous politicians & celebs at the wedding of approx 1000 people.

I paid 400,000 baht, which was just a small amount for the sake of tradition. I insisted the sum was not announced. It was also returned.

I'm enjoying a mutually respectful & warm relationship with my in laws.

Married 7 years.

interesting. Why not show the money and tell people the amount? Everyone will ask how much Sinsod? How does your wife answer this?

[richard_smith237]

Directly responding to the Op:

My Wife 3 years younger than I. Never married, no kids etc. Thammarsat Masters Graduate. Wealthy, respected and connected family.

Dept Primeminister numerous politicians & celebs at the wedding of approx 1000 people.

I paid 400,000 baht, which was just a small amount for the sake of tradition. I insisted the sum was not announced. It was also returned.

I'm enjoying a mutually respectful & warm relationship with my in laws.

Married 7 years.

interesting. Why not show the money and tell people the amount? Everyone will ask how much Sinsod? How does your wife answer this?

When in discussion with my Wife's family we discussed that rather than me adopting Thai culture this is a meeting of both cultures and there were some things I wanted and some I didn't. I found the public announcement of money a little distasteful but accepted the cultural / traditional part of the Sin-Sod.

This was partly about laying the foundation for the future where I would (and have) expected to have my wishes respected.

I'm not sure if anyone asked how much - But if they did I asked my Wife just to say that I didn't like to discuss money.

I also pointed out that I didn't want to go out and buy a load of gold (for the Sin-Sod) just to have to sell it again probably at a loss a few days later... My In Laws placed a load of Gold down with the money - I'm not sure of the value and never asked...

One of the other issues was that my Wife and I didn't want to get up at 4 or 5 am for the Engagement Ceremony *(which is usually held at some daft hour in the morning dictated by a fortune teller)... We set the time in the evening an hour before our evening ceremony started.

It took my Mother In Law 3 visits to the Fortune teller, the last one agreeing that our Date and Time was in fact auspicious !...

Edited January 14, 2016 by richard_smith237

[thaiduncankk]

Directly responding to the Op:

My Wife 3 years younger than I. Never married, no kids etc. Thammarsat Masters Graduate. Wealthy, respected and connected family.

Dept Primeminister numerous politicians & celebs at the wedding of approx 1000 people.

I paid 400,000 baht, which was just a small amount for the sake of tradition. I insisted the sum was not announced. It was also returned.

I'm enjoying a mutually respectful & warm relationship with my in laws.

Married 7 years.

interesting. Why not show the money and tell people the amount? Everyone will ask how much Sinsod? How does your wife answer this?

When in discussion with my Wife's family we discussed that rather than me adopting Thai culture this is a meeting of both cultures and there were some things I wanted and some I didn't. I found the public announcement of money a little distasteful but accepted the cultural / traditional part of the Sin-Sod.

This was partly about laying the foundation for the future where I would (and have) expected to have my wishes respected.

I'm not sure if anyone asked how much - But if they did I asked my Wife just to say that I didn't like to discuss money.

I also pointed out that I didn't want to go out and buy a load of gold (for the Sin-Sod) just to have to sell it again probably at a loss a few days later... My In Laws placed a load of Gold down with the money - I'm not sure of the value and never asked...

One of the other issues was that my Wife and I didn't want to get up at 4 or 5 am for the Engagement Ceremony *(which is usually held at some daft hour in the morning dictated by a fortune teller)... We set the time in the evening an hour before our evening ceremony started.

It took my Mother In Law 3 visits to the Fortune teller, the last one agreeing that our Date and Time was in fact auspicious !...

Early morning weddings has always been a tradition in Thailand.

I take it is one of the traditions you don't agree with ? A bit like the sinsod tradition that many on here don't agree with ?

[Robert24]

Directly responding to the Op:

My Wife 3 years younger than I. Never married, no kids etc. Thammarsat Masters Graduate. Wealthy, respected and connected family.

Dept Primeminister numerous politicians & celebs at the wedding of approx 1000 people.

I paid 400,000 baht, which was just a small amount for the sake of tradition. I insisted the sum was not announced. It was also returned.

I'm enjoying a mutually respectful & warm relationship with my in laws.

Married 7 years.

interesting. Why not show the money and tell people the amount? Everyone will ask how much Sinsod? How does your wife answer this?

When in discussion with my Wife's family we discussed that rather than me adopting Thai culture this is a meeting of both cultures and there were some things I wanted and some I didn't. I found the public announcement of money a little distasteful but accepted the cultural / traditional part of the Sin-Sod.

This was partly about laying the foundation for the future where I would (and have) expected to have my wishes respected.

I'm not sure if anyone asked how much - But if they did I asked my Wife just to say that I didn't like to discuss money.

I also pointed out that I didn't want to go out and buy a load of gold (for the Sin-Sod) just to have to sell it again probably at a loss a few days later... My In Laws placed a load of Gold down with the money - I'm not sure of the value and never asked...

One of the other issues was that my Wife and I didn't want to get up at 4 or 5 am for the Engagement Ceremony *(which is usually held at some daft hour in the morning dictated by a fortune teller)... We set the time in the evening an hour before our evening ceremony started.

It took my Mother In Law 3 visits to the Fortune teller, the last one agreeing that our Date and Time was in fact auspicious !...

thanks for those details. A bit unorthodox but glad it has worked well for you.

[richard_smith237]

Directly responding to the Op:

My Wife 3 years younger than I. Never married, no kids etc. Thammarsat Masters Graduate. Wealthy, respected and connected family.

Dept Primeminister numerous politicians & celebs at the wedding of approx 1000 people.

I paid 400,000 baht, which was just a small amount for the sake of tradition. I insisted the sum was not announced. It was also returned.

I'm enjoying a mutually respectful & warm relationship with my in laws.

Married 7 years.

interesting. Why not show the money and tell people the amount? Everyone will ask how much Sinsod? How does your wife answer this?

When in discussion with my Wife's family we discussed that rather than me adopting Thai culture this is a meeting of both cultures and there were some things I wanted and some I didn't. I found the public announcement of money a little distasteful but accepted the cultural / traditional part of the Sin-Sod.

This was partly about laying the foundation for the future where I would (and have) expected to have my wishes respected.

I'm not sure if anyone asked how much - But if they did I asked my Wife just to say that I didn't like to discuss money.

I also pointed out that I didn't want to go out and buy a load of gold (for the Sin-Sod) just to have to sell it again probably at a loss a few days later... My In Laws placed a load of Gold down with the money - I'm not sure of the value and never asked...

One of the other issues was that my Wife and I didn't want to get up at 4 or 5 am for the Engagement Ceremony *(which is usually held at some daft hour in the morning dictated by a fortune teller)... We set the time in the evening an hour before our evening ceremony started.

It took my Mother In Law 3 visits to the Fortune teller, the last one agreeing that our Date and Time was in fact auspicious !...

Early morning weddings has always been a tradition in Thailand.

I take it is one of the traditions you don't agree with ? A bit like the sinsod tradition that many on here don't agree with ?

It was my Wife's preference not to get up at 4am - do 2 hrs of makeup for 6am Engagement Ceremony followed by an evening reception at the hotel - They day is just too long...

Having had to get up too early for numerous friends ceremonies in the past I quite agreed with starting a little later.

Instead - Along with my Parents we visited my In Laws house at 10am for what I call the 'kidnapping ceremony' where I had to pass the gauntlet of cousins aunties etc to get to my Wife and take her... (I'm not sure what part of the tradition or ceremony this is)...

We then went to the Hotel had a nap and My wife prepared for the Engagement & Marriage Ceremony at 5pm (about an hour long) in a smaller reception room where we placed both the Engagement Ring and the Wedding Rings (about 150 people)... We then went to our room, changed and came back down for the Main evening Reception in the Grand Ball room (about 1000 people) which started at 6:30pm and went on until the early hours (including the after party).

I don't agree with Sin-Sod - but I went along with it as I didn't really effect me just so long as my In Laws agreed to keep it within the realms of what I believed to be tasteful and mutually respectful.

[richard_smith237]

thanks for those details. A bit unorthodox but glad it has worked well for you.

Thanks.. Much of it was about My Wife and I laying the foundation for our future and sending the message to our In Laws that we were the decision makers and that our future was not to be decided by them.

In similar circumstances we have seen My Wife's cousins married lives almost run by their parents - We wanted to ensure that we could live our own lives and make our own decisions while at the same time keeping my In Laws happy....

i.e. start out as we meant to go on... It seems to have worked (mostly !)... In Laws pop over regularly (2,3,4 times per week) to see their Grandchild.. we take it in turns for a weekly dinner etc... I sometimes still have to put my foot down but mostly its all good.

Anyway.... apologies... I've taken over this thread a little... I hope this is helpful info for the Op who it seems has met a great lady.

by all the comments I've read, its clear there is no normal....its also clear that there are a few stubborn whack-jobs who fail to recognise that respect works both ways...

There is plenty of opportunity to compromise in a mutually respectful manner. The Op has ample opportunity to influence decisions that suit him.

[GOLDBUGGY]

It really depends on there wealth and yours.

Have you future wife start negotiations with her mom and go from there. A Ball Park Figure would be 150,000 Baht but as I said this depends. Some do give back the Sin-sod but the Custom is for them to keep it. If they are well off they may ask for more for show, but give it back to you also. Up-to-them!

[JO1973]

A couple of things:

1) It's not a dowry, it's a brideprice. Everyone always makes the mistake of calling it a dowry. It's not. A dowry is given by the bride's family to the groom's family traditionally as a means of providing for the added expense of the groom's family taking on another mouth to feed. A brideprice is paid by the groom's family (or groom) to compensate the bride's family for the loss of labor they'll experience once their daughter moves away. Or at least that's how it goes in theory. I'm willing to bet that about 30 seconds after the first person thought of either they realized it was a money-making idea and it has been ever since.

2) Why are you so willing to abide by her cultural norms and give up yours? I read often here about people saying "Well, when you marry outside of your culture you have to make adjustments." But if you are marrying outside of your culture doesn't it logically follow that the person you're marrying is also marrying outside of THEIR culture? And where is it written that Westerners must automatically abide by customs that would not be tolerated in their own societies? Your culture is JUST AS IMPORTANT as hers.

3) Far too many foreigners fall for this 'It's an integral part of Thai culture' or 'Sin sod is a way of showing thanks for raising such a good Buddhist girl.' Nonsense. If that's the case why is it that those guys who marry some bar girl from soi Cowboy are asked for an arm and a leg? Tell me, just where exactly do 'good Buddhist' and 'soi Cowboy' meet?

It sounds to me like you are willing to agree to just about anything they ask for which, I'm afraid, is just going to lead to trouble. If you really love this girl then put your foot down. You will provide her with a good life and I'm sure you will also contribute to her family's financial stability at one time or another. But don't let yourself be taken for a ride.

Edited January 14, 2016 by JO1973

[nontabury]

A couple of things:

1) It's not a dowry, it's a brideprice. Everyone always makes the mistake of calling it a dowry. It's not. A dowry is given by the bride's family to the groom's family traditionally as a means of providing for the added expense of the groom's family taking on another mouth to feed. A brideprice is paid by the groom's family (or groom) to compensate the bride's family for the loss of labor they'll experience once their daughter moves away. Or at least that's how it goes in theory. I'm willing to bet that about 30 seconds after the first person thought of either they realized it was a money-making idea and it has been ever since.

2) Why are you so willing to abide by her cultural norms and give up yours? I read often here about people saying "Well, when you marry outside of your culture you have to make adjustments." But if you are marrying outside of your culture doesn't it logically follow that the person you're marrying is also marrying outside of THEIR culture? And where is it written that Westerners must automatically abide by customs that would not be tolerated in their own societies? Your culture is JUST AS IMPORTANT as hers.

3) Far too many foreigners fall for this 'It's an integral part of Thai culture' or 'Sin sod is a way of showing thanks for raising such a good Buddhist girl.' Nonsense. If that's the case why is it that those guys who marry some bar girl from soi Cowboy are asked for an arm and a leg? Tell me, just where exactly do 'good Buddhist' and 'soi Cowboy' meet?

It sounds to me like you are willing to agree to just about anything they ask for which, I'm afraid, is just going to lead to trouble. If you really love this girl then put your foot down. You will provide her with a good life and I'm sure you will also contribute to her family's financial stability at one time or another. But don't let yourself be taken for a ride.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a dowry is what is paid by the brides parents to the groom, as in India.

My question is, in Thailand there is quite a sizable Indian population. So what happens when a Indian man marries a Thai girl, who coughs up. Anyone know?

[koolkarl]

Haha. A dowry is supposed to be paid from girl's parents to you as is tradition. They can give you a cow or chicken.

Don't get sucked into their brain washing.

Unless he's marrying an Indian girl; you're wrong

"Hundreds of years ago women were considered chattel and the bride's family used to have to pay off the groom's family in the form of a dowry to take their

daughter off their hands.." and ti gave the couple a start in life. You can give all your money to her parents and they will gladly accept it !!

[MeHere]

Some of the answers here are just plain pathetic, and some are just out and out lies.

It makes me think that the guys that answer like this got the el cheapo version (read hooker, low class, gold digger type; maybe akin to trailer trash in my neck of the woods) instead of a real wife or they didn't get nothing at all but sitting around drinking themselves into lonely oblivion... Good luck with that!

Discuss it with your girl and come to a mutual agreement if it comes up at all...

I will pay ~300kthb when I marry, the parents will take care of the wedding costs. That's nothing compared to a western wedding. diamond ring, and marrying a much older fatter smellier feminist.

A friend of mine that married into a much richer family than I put 1mthb down at the alter which was all returned in the end.

It's different depending on many circumstances.

[TheKnave]

Amazing, the low-quality posts in this thread, specifically the ones saying "No sinsod", "She's taking you for a ride", etc. Compare this to ten years ago on this forum, where the preponderance of answers were based on the perception of Thai custom, and mostly about how much, given the girl's status. Real change in demographic here now, with much less respect for Thai culture, and a whole lot of cynicism. Sad.

As several astute posters have said, the money is about status and face for the girl and her family, and not about the family's greed (usually). You should have that established long before you make the commitment to marry. The issues of how much you and your wife will get back should be discussed openly, and everyone should come away happy before any agreement is taken seriously.

The fact that her family is relatively affluent is a good thing, in that they are not likely to need the money, and are mainly looking to see that you can take care of their daughter.

As for amount, I have seen sinsods of 1,000,000+ for a girl who was college educated, never before married, etc., and I have seen 200,000 and less for the same situation. I wouldn't think you would be outside those bounds (plus gold, of course). However, the family should set the ceiling, and you will need to negotiate from there.

Remember that your fiance is somewhat caught in the middle, wanting to protect you, but also gaining face and status by the size of the dowry. Don't be angry or hurt if she doesn't negotiate on your behalf or otherwise try to protect you. You can bargain hard but respectfully with her family, and once the agreement is struck, no hard feelings should result.

I can't emphasize enough that you are in Thailand, marrying a Thai girl, and observing her culture will have better outcomes, than going into it stubborn and opinionated about how it's a scam, etc. That is a sure recipe for a short and unhappy marriage.

I wish you luck in the process, and every happiness in your lives together.

I was not on this forum 10 years ago, I don't many others were either, so where you get your idea that people then were in favour, nobody knows.

He is marrying the girl, not buying a piece of meat.

Simple.

I've been on THIS forum since 2003, and several others since the '90s. And I didn't say anything about buying meat.

My point is that, back then, people were less cynical, and more inclined to try to fit into the predominant culture of the country where they made their home, and less inclined to be Bwanas from the West, trashing Thais and their culture, while living on the cheap lowdown.

Sorry you weren't there, but if you open your mind a bit, you can catch up...

[Mr Money Bags]

From what I hear both Malays and Singapore Chinese despise foreigners..

I live in Singapore, and have for decades. From my practical experience, you could not be further off the mark.

SOME Malays are devout (fanatical?) Muslims, so are not impressed with non-Muslims. There might be a grain of truth in that......

You're Welcome!!

[Mr Money Bags]

I suggest you do some research on traditional Thai wedding engagements and Thai weddings.

I think he is doing research.

Isn't that the whole point of asking his question in the first place? Isn't getting answers to questions the essence of research?

Maybe I am missing something again......

You're Welcome!!

[shirtless]

Mate you dont give a dowry in the west , why should you do it here.

[backtothailand]

Mate you dont give a dowry in the west , why should you do it here.

Because i dont live in the west now - i live in Thailand - i work in Thailand - my life is in Thailand - I am marrying a Thai girl

[Mr Money Bags]

Mate you dont give a dowry in the west , why should you do it here.

Because i dont live in the west now - i live in Thailand - i work in Thailand - my life is in Thailand - I am marrying a Thai girl

Kudos to you for realizing and internalizing this fact, Sir!

Soooooooooo many NEVER seem to understand this simple fact......

You're Welcome!!

[Shiver]

With my GF the family asked when we were getting married (I don't see any upside for the male). She said to them that she'd never heard me mention marriage ever. They're okay with that though as they know I've taken care of her through thick and thin and already proven myself when the going got tough for her and I didn't weasel out, and I also help the family on a monthly basis with a fairly modest amount of cash. They're good people and not particularly money driven the way some Thais can be. She's a village girl, college level education (I'm paying that debt off too, though I don't give her any money directly - just the bank and her family, and make sure she has a roof over her head, food in her belly, and treat her to something nice once in a while like clothing, phone, and all expenses), she has never been married and no kids, and always done 'honest' work (some office, some farming), even if it was not the best paid - I like the farming side as it gives her nice colour and keeps her strong rather than chemical white courtesy Nivea products. I've shelled out a fair amount of cash over the years so it's not like I'm being cheap. They just want to know that she's in good hands and don't need anything themselves. She's 29 years old if that makes any difference.

If for some crazy reason I was getting married, I'd suggest a very high sin-sod on condition of full return, just to keep them happy and in good face with their neighbours.

[elgenon]

It sounds like her parents take good care of her. I assume after marriage they will stop and you will take over.