Questions about Thai dowry - and what else to ask

[thaiduncankk]

How old is the girl?

Where is her home provence?

She was married before?

What level of education?

Does she has kids?

What is her family doing?

Does it matter ?

Love is love, when you have to pay the family for their acceptance, walk away.

If she loves you, she will side with you. But she loves her family more.

It will all end in tears.

[Robert24]

Despite what many say, it's ok to pay Sinsod if you want to get married. If she is from a middle class background as you describe it I would recommend to pay at least THB 1m + some gold. I guess it also depends a bit on your financial capabilities. I wouldn't ask for the money back unless you are financially constrained. Hope this helps.

[Robert24]

Sorry one more thing. I would ask her parents to pay for the wedding which I guess will cost quite a bit too...

[Krataiboy]

It is not a tradition. It is a scam on foreigners. The origins of the bride dowry go back to the days when Thailand was a mostly impoverished, peasant society and virginity was prized by rich and poor alike above all other female virtues (Yep, it must have been a long time ago!).

Wealthy Thais wishing to add beautiful, obedient virgins to their harems (Thai Kings had scores of concubines) would send emissaries into the countryside of Isaan and elsewhere to prospect for suitable candidates. When Miss Right was found, they would literally buy her from her parents, with a sum of money which was peanuts to them but a small fortune to the peasant couple.

Traditionally, selling one's children was an accepted way of raising funds.

You are not a Royal or a young George Soros and you say your bride and her family are reasonably well set up. So why feel you have to perpetuate this odious habit of buying a child from her mother - a practice which, if the woman you are marrying were much younger, would now land you in jail?

[Robert24]

From another point of view: If you get married here you marry the family as well. The person with the most money will/should share his/her wealth with the entire family. That's my ethical common sense.

that's a good point. Hence why you should do some due dilligence on gf's family and background. As with this case, it looks like her parents are well off and don't need help which is good.

[backtothailand]

It is not a tradition. It is a scam on foreigners. The origins of the bride dowry go back to the days when Thailand was a mostly impoverished, peasant society and virginity was prized by rich and poor alike above all other female virtues (Yep, it must have been a long time ago!).

Wealthy Thais wishing to add beautiful, obedient virgins to their harems (Thai Kings had scores of concubines) would send emissaries into the countryside of Isaan and elsewhere to prospect for suitable candidates. When Miss Right was found, they would literally buy her from her parents, with a sum of money which was peanuts to them but a small fortune to the peasant couple.

Traditionally, selling one's children was an accepted way of raising funds.

You are not a Royal or a young George Soros and you say your bride and her family are reasonably well set up. So why feel you have to perpetuate this odious habit of buying a child from her mother - a practice which, if the woman you are marrying were much younger, would now land you in jail?

Ridiculous reply. Good luck.

[MMF]

Well, each to its own. I don't agree with some of the points here simply because its NOT the way it worked out for me. My girls was first and foremost, interested in me.

She knew right from the start, I had to be the one to be happy, she know that I be the one supporting her (also helped her family willingly) therefore, she knew full well that, if I'm not happy, no one else would have been.

You're in charge, its your call. If you allow your g/f to dictate then, and only then I would walk.

I'm am willing to help but won't be pushed into any thing that I'm not happy with.

So, is your g/f interested in you or your money?

[gamini]

The dowry is an age-old scam. It's also a strong signal to break your relationship now, before it's too late.

There is no such thing as a dowry amongst well educated Thais. It is the brides parents who pay for the wedding, it has certainly been the custom at all the Thai weddings including foriegners that I have been to. I do not have any experience when a foreigner marries a village girl or into a poor family. But the above advice should be taken.

[Robert24]

Well, each to its own. I don't agree with some of the points here simply because its NOT the way it worked out for me. My girls was first and foremost, interested in me.

She knew right from the start, I had to be the one to be happy, she know that I be the one supporting her (also helped her family willingly) therefore, she knew full well that, if I'm not happy, no one else would have been.

You're in charge, its your call. If you allow your g/f to dictate then, and only then I would walk.

I'm am willing to help but won't be pushed into any thing that I'm not happy with.

So, is your g/f interested in you or your money?

from my experience it's usually both and your background, job, education too. I don't buy into the stories of pure love and your background doesn't matter. Never seen that.

[khunPer]

To OP:
In well-off Southern families the sin sot may be higher than in Isaan farmer villages. I see locally southern Thai-Thai marriages where sin sot is more than a million baht plus a number of agreed bahts of gold and/or jewelry. Normally sin sot reflects the social status of the families. Do also expect to pay part of or the whole wedding party. I don't know if, and how much, of sin sot is returned.

(Photo from a Southern Thai-Thai wedding I was invited to; cropped to show sin sot money only)

What I'm saying is, that if following local tradition you, it can be up in that level; or higher...

But ask you wife-to-be, she may have an idea, also if you can expect all, or some, sin sot to be returned.

Wish you good luck.

[Bruzzzz]

When I got married three years I put down 100.000. Her family paid for the food, drink etc and afterwards I was given the 100.000 back so the wedding cost me nothing. Now we have two children and her mother regularly babysits and I slipped some cash for helping out only to find that she has been putting the money in the kids money box.

I think you picked a winner from the myriad of gold diggers.

Great to hear.

I am happy for you and I hope it continues to go well.

Good luck.

[Robert24]

How old is the girl?

Where is her home provence?

She was married before?

What level of education?

Does she has kids?

What is her family doing?

Does it matter ?

Love is love, when you have to pay the family for their acceptance, walk away.

If she loves you, she will side with you. But she loves her family more.

It will all end in tears.

family bonding in Asia is very strong. I guess it's normal that every daughter would side with the family if push comes to shove. It's just reality. I don't buy any stories about a gf loving her bf more than her family. I've never seen that.

[Dumbastheycome]

The traditional payment is a negotiated aspect. And really only applies to never been married before daughters. As a farang the expectation that you are presumed capable of paying large amounts is possible. As she is the only daughter and the youngest it may be expected a larger than smaller sum could be asked for. Traditionally the youngest daughter is expected to be the carer of the aged parent/s and often not married at all.

But if her parents are wealthy and approving of the marriage then any expected payment may be a token.

If your relationshionship is healthy and honest then perhaps you can ask her to ask her parents about.

Be aware that the "negotiations" are usually made by the parents or other prominent family and not the expectant bride and groom. So in the situation of a farang negotiating for himself by himself it will likely depend on the level of respect and the percieved/ actual ability to afford.

Incidentally in the case of a second marriage of a daughter there is usually no call for any payment.

Nor have I heard of a refund scenario before. I guess it depends on the negotiation.

.

[dirtycash]

i married in isaan in front of the villiage, my wife put her gold which i bought her in a plate in middle of room for all to see , along with my ATM credit card for all to see. its all about the wifes family not losing face in front of the neighbours.

my advice is , buy her a decent bit of gold , mine was a 5 baht bracelet, i bought her it because i loved her ( at the time ) if you place any money for the sinsod then make sure it will be returned , as many have told you it is only for show !!

if the sinsod money is not returned to you then be prepared for the long game.

[thaiduncankk]

The traditional payment is a negotiated aspect. And really only applies to never been married before daughters. As a farang the expectation that you are presumed capable of paying large amounts is possible. As she is the only daughter and the youngest it may be expected a larger than smaller sum could be asked for. Traditionally the youngest daughter is expected to be the carer of the aged parent/s and often not married at all.

But if her parents are wealthy and approving of the marriage then any expected payment may be a token.

If your relationshionship is healthy and honest then perhaps you can ask her to ask her parents about.

Be aware that the "negotiations" are usually made by the parents or other prominent family and not the expectant bride and groom. So in the situation of a farang negotiating for himself by himself it will likely depend on the level of respect and the percieved/ actual ability to afford.

Incidentally in the case of a second marriage of a daughter there is usually no call for any payment.

Nor have I heard of a refund scenario before. I guess it depends on the negotiation.

.

So, what exactly are you paying for ?

Permission to take care of her for the rest of your life. Taking her off the family payroll ?

They should be paying you.

[Dumbastheycome]

The traditional payment is a negotiated aspect. And really only applies to never been married before daughters. As a farang the expectation that you are presumed capable of paying large amounts is possible. As she is the only daughter and the youngest it may be expected a larger than smaller sum could be asked for. Traditionally the youngest daughter is expected to be the carer of the aged parent/s and often not married at all.

But if her parents are wealthy and approving of the marriage then any expected payment may be a token.

If your relationshionship is healthy and honest then perhaps you can ask her to ask her parents about.

Be aware that the "negotiations" are usually made by the parents or other prominent family and not the expectant bride and groom. So in the situation of a farang negotiating for himself by himself it will likely depend on the level of respect and the percieved/ actual ability to afford.

Incidentally in the case of a second marriage of a daughter there is usually no call for any payment.

Nor have I heard of a refund scenario before. I guess it depends on the negotiation.

.

So, what exactly are you paying for ?

Permission to take care of her for the rest of your life. Taking her off the family payroll ?

They should be paying you.

Financial compensation for the removal of old age caregiver...........The original Social/cultural welfare system now replaced in the West by taxpayers.

[thaiduncankk]

The traditional payment is a negotiated aspect. And really only applies to never been married before daughters. As a farang the expectation that you are presumed capable of paying large amounts is possible. As she is the only daughter and the youngest it may be expected a larger than smaller sum could be asked for. Traditionally the youngest daughter is expected to be the carer of the aged parent/s and often not married at all.

But if her parents are wealthy and approving of the marriage then any expected payment may be a token.

If your relationshionship is healthy and honest then perhaps you can ask her to ask her parents about.

Be aware that the "negotiations" are usually made by the parents or other prominent family and not the expectant bride and groom. So in the situation of a farang negotiating for himself by himself it will likely depend on the level of respect and the percieved/ actual ability to afford.

Incidentally in the case of a second marriage of a daughter there is usually no call for any payment.

Nor have I heard of a refund scenario before. I guess it depends on the negotiation.

.

So, what exactly are you paying for ?

Permission to take care of her for the rest of your life. Taking her off the family payroll ?

They should be paying you.

Financial compensation for the removal of old age caregiver...........The original Social/cultural welfare system now replaced in the West by taxpayers.

So if they unfortunately pass away after the marriage, where, exactly, do you ask for a refund ?

[Dumbastheycome]

The traditional payment is a negotiated aspect. And really only applies to never been married before daughters. As a farang the expectation that you are presumed capable of paying large amounts is possible. As she is the only daughter and the youngest it may be expected a larger than smaller sum could be asked for. Traditionally the youngest daughter is expected to be the carer of the aged parent/s and often not married at all.

But if her parents are wealthy and approving of the marriage then any expected payment may be a token.

If your relationshionship is healthy and honest then perhaps you can ask her to ask her parents about.

Be aware that the "negotiations" are usually made by the parents or other prominent family and not the expectant bride and groom. So in the situation of a farang negotiating for himself by himself it will likely depend on the level of respect and the percieved/ actual ability to afford.

Incidentally in the case of a second marriage of a daughter there is usually no call for any payment.

Nor have I heard of a refund scenario before. I guess it depends on the negotiation.

.

So, what exactly are you paying for ?

Permission to take care of her for the rest of your life. Taking her off the family payroll ?

They should be paying you.

Financial compensation for the removal of old age caregiver...........The original Social/cultural welfare system now replaced in the West by taxpayers.

So if they unfortunately pass away after the marriage, where, exactly, do you ask for a refund ?

Would that be a full refund Sir? She is second hand goods now is she not ?

Refund ?

<deleted> !

[thaiduncankk]

The traditional payment is a negotiated aspect. And really only applies to never been married before daughters. As a farang the expectation that you are presumed capable of paying large amounts is possible. As she is the only daughter and the youngest it may be expected a larger than smaller sum could be asked for. Traditionally the youngest daughter is expected to be the carer of the aged parent/s and often not married at all.

But if her parents are wealthy and approving of the marriage then any expected payment may be a token.

If your relationshionship is healthy and honest then perhaps you can ask her to ask her parents about.

Be aware that the "negotiations" are usually made by the parents or other prominent family and not the expectant bride and groom. So in the situation of a farang negotiating for himself by himself it will likely depend on the level of respect and the percieved/ actual ability to afford.

Incidentally in the case of a second marriage of a daughter there is usually no call for any payment.

Nor have I heard of a refund scenario before. I guess it depends on the negotiation.

.

So, what exactly are you paying for ?

Permission to take care of her for the rest of your life. Taking her off the family payroll ?

They should be paying you.

Financial compensation for the removal of old age caregiver...........The original Social/cultural welfare system now replaced in the West by taxpayers.

So if they unfortunately pass away after the marriage, where, exactly, do you ask for a refund ?

Would that be a full refund Sir? She is second hand goods now is she not ?

Refund ?

<deleted> !

She is almost certainly 'second hand goods', not nice terminology, but you used it, well before you get there SIR.

[F4UCorsair]

9 Posts, probably most, if not all, on this thread (I haven't read every post) on this bloody contentious subject, smells of trolling to me.

If you'd bothered to search TV, you'd find, hundreds, if not thousands, of pages on the subject.

However, the short answer is......as much as they think they can milk you for, and a bit more!!

It's an alien concept in the 21st century, and makes the parents little more than pimps, and their daughters hookers.

Edited January 13, 2016 by F4UCorsair

[TheKnave]

Amazing, the low-quality posts in this thread, specifically the ones saying "No sinsod", "She's taking you for a ride", etc. Compare this to ten years ago on this forum, where the preponderance of answers were based on the perception of Thai custom, and mostly about how much, given the girl's status. Real change in demographic here now, with much less respect for Thai culture, and a whole lot of cynicism. Sad.

As several astute posters have said, the money is about status and face for the girl and her family, and not about the family's greed (usually). You should have that established long before you make the commitment to marry. The issues of how much you and your wife will get back should be discussed openly, and everyone should come away happy before any agreement is taken seriously.

The fact that her family is relatively affluent is a good thing, in that they are not likely to need the money, and are mainly looking to see that you can take care of their daughter.

As for amount, I have seen sinsods of 1,000,000+ for a girl who was college educated, never before married, etc., and I have seen 200,000 and less for the same situation. I wouldn't think you would be outside those bounds (plus gold, of course). However, the family should set the ceiling, and you will need to negotiate from there.

Remember that your fiance is somewhat caught in the middle, wanting to protect you, but also gaining face and status by the size of the dowry. Don't be angry or hurt if she doesn't negotiate on your behalf or otherwise try to protect you. You can bargain hard but respectfully with her family, and once the agreement is struck, no hard feelings should result.

I can't emphasize enough that you are in Thailand, marrying a Thai girl, and observing her culture will have better outcomes, than going into it stubborn and opinionated about how it's a scam, etc. That is a sure recipe for a short and unhappy marriage.

I wish you luck in the process, and every happiness in your lives together.

[quandow]

I have a friend who told his Thai girlfriend to pay the dowry, which she did. They're both quite happy.

[kinmaew]

Seeing she is so well taken care of tell them you will pay $0 dowry as obviously the parents are well off enough to take care of her see how much love remains and use that as a basis for your next steps

[ThailandNo1]

Gold?

Buddhism, prohibits the reception of gold (or silver) as a gift. SIn Sot is not even Thai culture, it was brought into Thailand from China!

If you want to pretend to be a Thai man, who is pretending to be a Chinese man then by all means go ahead!

Just remember you are in Thailand and "have to be like Thai" when they want you to and "just a farang" when it is convenient for them.

[thaiduncankk]

Amazing, the low-quality posts in this thread, specifically the ones saying "No sinsod", "She's taking you for a ride", etc. Compare this to ten years ago on this forum, where the preponderance of answers were based on the perception of Thai custom, and mostly about how much, given the girl's status. Real change in demographic here now, with much less respect for Thai culture, and a whole lot of cynicism. Sad.

As several astute posters have said, the money is about status and face for the girl and her family, and not about the family's greed (usually). You should have that established long before you make the commitment to marry. The issues of how much you and your wife will get back should be discussed openly, and everyone should come away happy before any agreement is taken seriously.

The fact that her family is relatively affluent is a good thing, in that they are not likely to need the money, and are mainly looking to see that you can take care of their daughter.

As for amount, I have seen sinsods of 1,000,000+ for a girl who was college educated, never before married, etc., and I have seen 200,000 and less for the same situation. I wouldn't think you would be outside those bounds (plus gold, of course). However, the family should set the ceiling, and you will need to negotiate from there.

Remember that your fiance is somewhat caught in the middle, wanting to protect you, but also gaining face and status by the size of the dowry. Don't be angry or hurt if she doesn't negotiate on your behalf or otherwise try to protect you. You can bargain hard but respectfully with her family, and once the agreement is struck, no hard feelings should result.

I can't emphasize enough that you are in Thailand, marrying a Thai girl, and observing her culture will have better outcomes, than going into it stubborn and opinionated about how it's a scam, etc. That is a sure recipe for a short and unhappy marriage.

I wish you luck in the process, and every happiness in your lives together.

I was not on this forum 10 years ago, I don't many others were either, so where you get your idea that people then were in favour, nobody knows.

He is marrying the girl, not buying a piece of meat.

[Sandy Freckle]

I would be interested to know how it all went..., the negotiations and outcome....., would it be indelicate to ask that you let us all know ?
All the very best to you both.

[gemguy]

I do not have experienced marriage to a Thai women based advice to give to you but I surmise most foreigners would not feel comfortable at all about giving money for a dowry.

If the man is already paying for the wedding ceremony and near everything involved I believe that would be more than enough expenditure on your / his part.

I never married with any Thai women while part of the reason is I did not like the idea of having to pay for my wife..... as in, the feeling of buying her or paying for her where the money issues involved set the precedent for what commonly becomes a routine part of the marriage....Money matters, that is........Your money, that is..... And how much you keep on giving her and or her family and or how much the family can get out of you.

Here in Thailand there are a significant percent of the foreigners that marry Thai women and later regret it simply because, in the end, the foreigner is seen as a source of money while the ongoing money issues drama is what destroys the marriage and in the end the foreigner realizes that he was simply seen as bank account for the wife and her family.

And not just a few foreigners...a lot of them will tell you their tales of woe and stress and ongoing drama over money matters with their ( former ) Thai wife that they were so enamored with in the beginning

So...if anything, you are been strongly forewarned by many others that your relationship with your wife to be, is precarious, if it is based on having to negotiate the cost of how much your wife is worth to you and how much you can afford to pay.

Not a good way to start off a marriage regardless of the still practiced, silly tradition where the man pays a dowry.

Cheers

Edited January 14, 2016 by gemguy

[MMF]

The shirt off your back before they're finished with you.!!!

Its just not the case. You are completely wrong. Have a fresh start will you....and next time try harder to find a good girl, plenty out here.

By the way, do you really think that UK or anywhere else girls are any better? Which girl would want to get involved with a penniless looser?

On the other hand, I wouldn't get involved seriously with a bar girl, these are just for fun and, did I have some fun, yes.

But for settling down with one of those? No way because, I've learned, ones a bar girl, always a bar girl.

But if this is your idea of going forward then. I'll say good luck to you, hope it works out. Don't come back later when the dosh is gone and preach to us what you say here.

[backtothailand]

Thank you to all for your great replies and helpful information. I've also received some great advice via PM.

For me - i live in Thailand - I am happy to pay what is fair to pay for what is important to a family - their tradition. Their is a portion of people on here who want to argue its not Thai tradition etc - please tell that to Thai people. Their is another portion of people here who think Sinsod is here to rip of Farangs - again not the case.

My girl is very traditional in many ways and it would hardly be a good start to my marriage denying a family a tradition that has been their way for a long time.

I will be going on the 27th of this month.

I spoke with my girl last night about all of this and her exact reply was "dont worry about any of this - everything will go smooth. My mom understands this is not your tradition and that we are startling our life together"

[backtothailand]

I would be interested to know how it all went..., the negotiations and outcome....., would it be indelicate to ask that you let us all know ?

All the very best to you both.

I will most definitely update on the whole procedure after the 27th