Bitten by something

[RickBradford]

This is a non-urgent query as the episode has ended, just a matter of interest.

(I should add that I avoid doctors probably long past the time when a sensible person would be thinking about medical intervention, and the following is an example of that.)

A couple of months ago, while searching for something in my garden (eastern Thailand), I walked into some high, wild foliage, wearing shorts and flip-flops.

I felt nothing, but in the middle of the following night I woke up absolutely freezing (although the ambient temperature was 25C, no aircon) and for the rest of the night I was drifting into and out of sleep. I would describe it as a hot, dry fever.

For the next two days I could hardly move -- nauseous, tired, minor breathing difficulties, almost delirious.

These symptoms eased after two or three days, but I suddenly noted some red dots appearing on the skin just above my left ankle. Within two days, these dots had coalesced into a crimson, almost black, mass extending from my ankle to my knee and the leg was swollen to nearly twice its normal size, though completely painless. It took almost 10 days for the swelling and color to subside, and the skin flaked off, leaving no signs except a dark area on the skin just above the ankle, which remains to this day.

The oddest thing about the episode was that I felt absolutely nothing at the time, which I would have expected with a bite. Plus there were no symptoms for several hours, which seems odd.

Does anyone have any idea what it might have been. Snake? Spider? Aggressive plant?

[tonray]

It may have been a small poisonous snake......you may have just been a very lucky man...if your leg swelled and turned black color....likely you are a very lucky man not to have lost a limb.

[RickBradford]

Yes, if there had been any hint of tissue necrosis, that would have sent me to a medico.

But it was all on the surface, no open wounds, just something I think they call 'hemolysis', ie red blood cells getting broken up by some toxin.

[happynthailand]

sounds like you were bitten by one of these,bad boys

[Sheryl]

Not a scorpion - (1) They hurt like %^&$, you will know when you are stung by one; and (2) the ones in Thailand will not produce the kind of reaction described - just terrible pain.

My best quess is some kind of viper,, in which case you are very lucky in that the amount of envenomation was probably small. They have a hemorrhagic toxin, and tthe effects take time to manifest, as you describe. If so you were very, very foolish not to seek medical help; you could have lost a limb.

The other possibility is some type of spider bite, though I have not encountered reactions as bad as what you describe in a spider bite in Thailand. Usually not more than cellulitis around the area bitten, not hemorrhagic effects on the whole limb..

[RickBradford]

Many thanks, Sheryl -- the viper explanation seems to fit.

And the scolding is justified -- I guess it was the complete lack of pain throughout the whole episode that had me doubting that anything serious had happened, especially when the initial fever passed without incident.

Anyway, I now wear strong boots and long trousers whenever I venture into untamed parts of the property. A lesson learned.

[tonray]

Yes, if there had been any hint of tissue necrosis, that would have sent me to a medico.

But it was all on the surface, no open wounds, just something I think they call 'hemolysis', ie red blood cells getting broken up by some toxin.

Next time...don't wait...by the time you see tissue necrosis...that means it is already too late and that tissue must be cut away.........next time....!

[Loeilad]

Have you considered the possibility of it being a plant? Tree nettle comes to mind, (is Giant hogweed found in Thailand?) but there are various plants in the tropics that sting on contact.

If it was a plant I presume it will still be there so you could perhaps get it identified.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Loeilad

[RickBradford]

^^^

Yes, that was my first thought, because I had no recollection of any bite or anything (which I assumed would have been painful).

And I have previous experience, having fallen into a Queensland Giant Stinging Tree once while bushwalking. That was an extremely painful experience that lasted for months.

But I really wonder whether a plant could cause a delayed action fever or have the hemotoxic (if that's the right word) effect that I experienced.

[steven100]

It was a cobra

Edited January 14, 2016 by steven100

[Rob13]

, but I suddenly noted some red dots appearing on the skin just above my left ankle

dots that looked like bite marks or more like a rash like poison ivy?

[Loeilad]

^^^

Yes, that was my first thought, because I had no recollection of any bite or anything (which I assumed would have been painful).

And I have previous experience, having fallen into a Queensland Giant Stinging Tree once while bushwalking. That was an extremely painful experience that lasted for months.

But I really wonder whether a plant could cause a delayed action fever or have the hemotoxic (if that's the right word) effect that I experienced.

Not all plant stings are the same of course......I am well aware of Gimpy Stingers though.

Hemotoxic would be something that affects the blood. (red cells)

Some plants are phototoxic untreated you could have subsequent got blood poisoning or a bacterial infection.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Loeilad

[Gulfsailor]

Symptoms all add up to a brown recluse spider bite!

[Loeilad]

Symptoms all add up to a brown recluse spider bite!

Which don't live in Thailand.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Loeilad

[Gulfsailor]

Symptoms all add up to a brown recluse spider bite!

Which don't live in Thailand.

A friend of mine caught one on Samui and now holds it in a terrarium. That's why I knew about this spider's existence in the first place. And there are also some reports online about people being bit in Thailand.

[RickBradford]

, but I suddenly noted some red dots appearing on the skin just above my left ankle

dots that looked like bite marks or more like a rash like poison ivy?

Rash like poison ivy. Minute dots.

Eventually there were so many of them that the whole area turned crimson, and then almost black.

[Loeilad]

Symptoms all add up to a brown recluse spider bite!

Which don't live in Thailand.

A friend of mine caught one on Samui and now holds it in a terrarium. That's why I knew about this spider's existence in the first place. And there are also some reports online about people being bit in Thailand.

Tell him to look again, it won't be a brown recluse.

[steven100]

Symptoms all add up to a brown recluse spider bite!

Which don't live in Thailand.

A friend of mine caught one on Samui and now holds it in a terrarium. That's why I knew about this spider's existence in the first place. And there are also some reports online about people being bit in Thailand.

Tell him to look again, it won't be a brown recluse.

it's a cobra I think .....

[Rob13]

Rash like poison ivy. Minute dots.

Eventually there were so many of them that the whole area turned crimson

My money's on it being from a plant, nettles or something. I googled brown recluse, they're not native to Thailand but have made it here from the US; they're here but rare. Their bite doesn't match what the OP described though. And a snake would leave bite marks,which apparently there weren't any.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Rob13

[Loeilad]

Rash like poison ivy. Minute dots.

Eventually there were so many of them that the whole area turned crimson

My money's on it being from a plant, nettles or something. I googled brown recluse, they're not native to Thailand but have made it here from the US; they're here but rare. Their bite doesn't match what the OP described though. And a snake would leave bite marks,which apparently there weren't any.

If you are referring to the case up north, that was almost certainly a misidentification and bungled treatment.

I far as I'm aware there has NEVER been an authenticated identification of a brown recluse in Thailand. Just because it COULD happen doesn't mean it has or will....

In fact they only live in a few places in the US......they are however frequently wrongly accused of other bites.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Loeilad

[Loeilad]

Rash like poison ivy. Minute dots.

Eventually there were so many of them that the whole area turned crimson

My money's on it being from a plant, nettles or something. I googled brown recluse, they're not native to Thailand but have made it here from the US; they're here but rare. Their bite doesn't match what the OP described though. And a snake would leave bite marks,which apparently there weren't any.

have you considered a centipede? They're very common. Millipedes too exude a toxin if threatened or disturbed - this causes a browning of the skin.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Loeilad

[Loeilad]

It has also occurred to me that as you didn't feel a thing, whatever it was may not have been in the long grass at all, but occurred sometime later.

[RickBradford]

Thanks for all the replies -- at least you can all see why I was (and am still) confused as to the cause of this.

No pain when it happened (I didn't know anything had happened), no visible puncture marks, very delayed response and then two separate episodes; the two-day dry near-delirious fever and just as that was fading, the massive swelling and discoloration (again painless) of the entire leg.

[tonray]

Thanks for all the replies -- at least you can all see why I was (and am still) confused as to the cause of this.

No pain when it happened (I didn't know anything had happened), no visible puncture marks, very delayed response and then two separate episodes; the two-day dry near-delirious fever and just as that was fading, the massive swelling and discoloration (again painless) of the entire leg.

Thailand snake expert says many Thai snakes have painless bites.....

https://www.thailandsnakes.com/venomous/

[lemonjelly]

Possibly a blood clot in the leg

[cyberfarang]

Yes, if there had been any hint of tissue necrosis, that would have sent me to a medico.

But it was all on the surface, no open wounds, just something I think they call 'hemolysis', ie red blood cells getting broken up by some toxin.

Is it possible that there are some poisonous plants or vegetation in your garden that could have brushed against your skin causing an acute allergic reaction?

There are numerous plants like that in my garden. At one time one touched my hand that caused a rash. Keep your garden tidy and the grass and weeds cut short putting off snakes and other video nasties that prefer long grass and weeds. Prevention is better then cure.

[RickBradford]

Yes, if there had been any hint of tissue necrosis, that would have sent me to a medico.

But it was all on the surface, no open wounds, just something I think they call 'hemolysis', ie red blood cells getting broken up by some toxin.

Is it possible that there are some poisonous plants or vegetation in your garden that could have brushed against your skin causing an acute allergic reaction?

There are numerous plants like that in my garden. At one time one touched my hand that caused a rash. Keep your garden tidy and the grass and weeds cut short putting off snakes and other video nasties that prefer long grass and weeds. Prevention is better then cure.

Yes, it's quite possible.

I just don't have enough medical knowledge to judge whether the progress of my symptoms is compatible with a plant reaction or not.

The garden around my house is kept very trimmed; I think the incident occurred when I was a bit further away, among some wild trees and grasses.

[puukao]

good news: you have 1 month to live

bad news: i meant to tell you this last month

[Loeilad]

On 1/14/2016 at 5:17 PM, Gulfsailor said:

A friend of mine caught one on Samui and now holds it in a terrarium. That's why I knew about this spider's existence in the first place. And there are also some reports online about people being bit in Thailand.

No he didn't, they don't live in Thailand. Any reports are apocryphal.

 

[Speedo1968]

On 1/15/2016 at 8:03 PM, Loeilad said:

have you considered a centipede? They're very common. Millipedes too exude a toxin if threatened or disturbed - this causes a browning of the skin.

I have had a centipede bite on my big toe whilst in bed, didn't feel the bite itself but the burning sensation to the whole foot was extreme.