Police consider prosecuting Koh Tao victim's sister over Thailand criticism

[JLCrab]

They have to show the appeal judges why the DNA assertions are not acceptable by any court. That means dumbing down the explanation. It has to be understood by any man on the street. Unfortunately I don't think they are on the same page as yet.

As you say ANY court, my guess would be that you could find Courts that have admitted DNA of similar questionable provenance with instructions to the jury as to the circumstances under which the DNA was collected and processed and that the jury could give such DNA evidence as much or as little credence as it chooses.

Edited January 16, 2016 by JLCrab

[kiwikeith]

Great editorial this morning in the paper which cannot be referenced. Titled "no time for intimidation", ironic that I was lead to it from Andy Halls Twitter feed. The guy who refuses to be intimidated. He should be the one given the opportunity to put this into words when it is all over.

Sickening from the start, but could the tide finally be turning?

Just read the article in the BK post, titled no time for intimidation, good read and great that the BK post has spoken out.

I see some hope for the B2 as anonymous, and Laura's brave stance has ruffled the feathers and the whole thai police/ justice system is now under world observation as being corrupt.

[Khun Han]

I think Laura would have mentioned a declined bribe from Thailand to keep their mouths shut and accept the verdict

She did:

"What if I told you that the thais offered us ‘compensation’ to try and keep us quiet?"

That's not a rumor then, Thais tried to bribe one family of a murder victim, scandalous.

Of course it's rumour, an unsubstantiated statement from a family member. As she stated, "so what if I told you." Well what if she told someone, she could tell any one a number of things and because she said it occurred, you're suggesting that it gives credence to the allegations she raised?

The desperation sets in.....

[Khun Han]

The defense has 30 days from the date of the ruling to request an appeal. Time then to see what razzle-dazzle they can show.

As the prosecution has no evidence pertaining to the b2 i fail to see what kind of razzle-dazzle the defense would have to show.

I guess it's just a mere technicality that you aren't the one who needs to be shown.

Do you ever tire of being facetious?

[iReason]

As tthailand aptly pointed out, Laura's statements clearly can be substantiated.

By two other people.

"Why are you here? Why do you care? She (Hannah) is dead already."

"Just go home and make another one (daughter).

“She will be back in 30 days as something else, she may have better luck next time," Ms Witheridge also quoted Thai officials as saying to her parents.

Edited January 16, 2016 by iReason

[JLCrab]

The defense has 30 days from the date of the ruling to request an appeal. Time then to see what razzle-dazzle they can show.

As the prosecution has no evidence pertaining to the b2 i fail to see what kind of razzle-dazzle the defense would have to show.

I guess it's just a mere technicality that you aren't the one who needs to be shown.

Do you ever tire of being facetious?

Not when you guys keep putting up such great straight-man lines.

Edited January 16, 2016 by JLCrab

[jaywalker]

That's not a rumor then, Thais tried to bribe one family of a murder victim, scandalous.

Of course it's rumour, an unsubstantiated statement from a family member. As she stated, "so what if I told you." Well what if she told someone, she could tell any one a number of things and because she said it occurred, you're suggesting that it gives credence to the allegations she raised?

The 'unsubstantiated statement' is how the BIB got DNA test results in 12 hours.

[jacky54]

Just stop to criticize Thailand all the time! Its a commom sense allways to know it better! If someone is not happy with the things going on here,why not just leave?Nobody has to stay here its not a must.....we are all guests here and if we dont like the way it is, then just go back to your country.

And when back in your country then shure you start to criticize the goverment there and so it goes on and on?....

Let the Thai Police do there Job and enjoy the beautiful country here!

Unfortunately the dead cannot leave, and if we who criticized the laughable RTP 'investigation' and the farcical judicial process left nothing would change would it. The Thai Police and judiciary would still be corrupt and incompetent and visitors to mafia run dumps like Kho Tao would still be dying in mysterious ways that never seem to involve the Thais responsible. Thailand will always be a third world banana state if people do not challenge gross miscarriages of justice, corruption the need above all else to maintain the childishness of face. Thais need to wake up and see what is going on in their name, and do something about it.

[Si Thea01]

That's not a rumor then, Thais tried to bribe one family of a murder victim, scandalous.

Of course it's rumour, an unsubstantiated statement from a family member. As she stated, "so what if I told you." Well what if she told someone, she could tell any one a number of things and because she said it occurred, you're suggesting that it gives credence to the allegations she raised?

The 'unsubstantiated statement' is how the BIB got DNA test results in 12 hours.

I don't know how we've come to this but if you must go off on a tangent than do so but the so called collection and testing has nothing do do with an unsubstantiated statement. DNA testing is based on forensics and depending on tthe Lab, can take 3 to 5 days, not 12 hours and is then reported on. What happened here is beyond the pale, so what's your point in using this as a comparison?

[farcanell]

I think Laura would have mentioned a declined bribe from Thailand to keep their mouths shut and accept the verdict

She did:

"What if I told you that the thais offered us compensation to try and keep us quiet?"

As abhorrent as this offer of a "bribe" may seem, if you look at Thai law under the "wrong doers act" you will see that " compensation" is a common way of dealing with victims of crime.... More generally petty crimes, admittedly, but still... It is written in their law books that this is permissible.... So... To make it discoverable to the world, will not cause a loss of face for the RTP

Of course, what compensation would ever be enough, is the next question, and in a modern civilization, we cannot answer that.... But civilizations of old, have always had a standard, depending on the worth of the person, from slave through to King, so whilst not current, there has historically been a sliding scale in use

[farcanell]

That's not a rumor then, Thais tried to bribe one family of a murder victim, scandalous.

Of course it's rumour, an unsubstantiated statement from a family member. As she stated, "so what if I told you." Well what if she told someone, she could tell any one a number of things and because she said it occurred, you're suggesting that it gives credence to the allegations she raised?

The 'unsubstantiated statement' is how the BIB got DNA test results in 12 hours.

I don't know how we've come to this but if you must go off on a tangent than do so but the so called collection and testing has nothing do do with an unsubstantiated statement. DNA testing is based on forensics and depending on tthe Lab, can take 3 to 5 days, not 12 hours and is then reported on. What happened here is beyond the pale, so what's your point in using this as a comparison?

What if I told you that "what if I told you" was her way of saying that something happened.... And whilst it may confuse some, it does not mean that it did not happen

What if I told you, would you believe me? It all goes together.

If guilty of anything, it is perhaps bad sentence structure

[farcanell]

They have to show the appeal judges why the DNA assertions are not acceptable by any court. That means dumbing down the explanation. It has to be understood by any man on the street. Unfortunately I don't think they are on the same page as yet.

If you have to dumb down anything for a learner end judge... I fear for the whole country!

And yes... I've been out and am catching up

[farcanell]

If I understand it correctly there was more than one person or family member who heard these statements. If this is true then there is one or more witnesses thus the statements have backing as proof. If this was a murder and there was a witness coming forward wouldn't that be accepted in court.

Arguably not if its a family member being the corroborating witness... Defense ( of the person having made the statement), would immediately point to a conspirousy

[Khun Han]

Just stop to criticize Thailand all the time! Its a commom sense allways to know it better! If someone is not happy with the things going on here,why not just leave?Nobody has to stay here its not a must.....we are all guests here and if we dont like the way it is, then just go back to your country.

And when back in your country then shure you start to criticize the goverment there and so it goes on and on?....

Let the Thai Police do there Job and enjoy the beautiful country here!

Unfortunately the dead cannot leave, and if we who criticized the laughable RTP 'investigation' and the farcical judicial process left nothing would change would it. The Thai Police and judiciary would still be corrupt and incompetent and visitors to mafia run dumps like Kho Tao would still be dying in mysterious ways that never seem to involve the Thais responsible. Thailand will always be a third world banana state if people do not challenge gross miscarriages of justice, corruption the need above all else to maintain the childishness of face. Thais need to wake up and see what is going on in their name, and do something about it.

Every deveolped country in the World was in a similar place of moral development to where Thailand is now. The argument that 'this is how things are here, just get used to it' is just plain silly. Thailand will be dragged some way forward to the 21st century, with it's corrupt, immoral leaders and puyais kicking and screaming and causing plenty of collateral damage along the way. It's all a part of evolution.

[lvr181]

Just stop to criticize Thailand all the time! Its a commom sense allways to know it better! If someone is not happy with the things going on here,why not just leave?Nobody has to stay here its not a must.....we are all guests here and if we dont like the way it is, then just go back to your country.

And when back in your country then shure you start to criticize the goverment there and so it goes on and on?....

Let the Thai Police do there Job and enjoy the beautiful country here!

Unfortunately the dead cannot leave, and if we who criticized the laughable RTP 'investigation' and the farcical judicial process left nothing would change would it. The Thai Police and judiciary would still be corrupt and incompetent and visitors to mafia run dumps like Kho Tao would still be dying in mysterious ways that never seem to involve the Thais responsible. Thailand will always be a third world banana state if people do not challenge gross miscarriages of justice, corruption the need above all else to maintain the childishness of face. Thais need to wake up and see what is going on in their name, and do something about it.

Every deveolped country in the World was in a similar place of moral development to where Thailand is now. The argument that 'this is how things are here, just get used to it' is just plain silly. Thailand will be dragged some way forward to the 21st century, with it's corrupt, immoral leaders and puyais kicking and screaming and causing plenty of collateral damage along the way. It's all a part of evolution.

Well, maybe. But it seems that it is taking 100s of years for Thailand to do what, a near neighbour, Singapore has done in 50 years?

[jayjay78]

The 'unsubstantiated statement' is how the BIB got DNA test results in 12 hours.

I don't know how we've come to this but if you must go off on a tangent than do so but the so called collection and testing has nothing do do with an unsubstantiated statement. DNA testing is based on forensics and depending on tthe Lab, can take 3 to 5 days, not 12 hours and is then reported on. What happened here is beyond the pale, so what's your point in using this as a comparison?

What if I told you that "what if I told you" was her way of saying that something happened.... And whilst it may confuse some, it does not mean that it did not happen

What if I told you, would you believe me? It all goes together.

If guilty of anything, it is perhaps bad sentence structure

The full sentence she made was actually this "What if I told you that the thais offered us ‘compensation’ to try and keep us quiet? Obviously we were absolutely appalled and told them to shove it."

[Si Thea01]

Farcenell

What if I told you that "what if I told you" was her way of saying that something happened.... And whilst it may confuse some, it does not mean that it did not happen

What if I told you, would you believe me? It all goes together.

If guilty of anything, it is perhaps bad sentence structure

Did I say anywhere that it did not happen? If I choose not to accept something, until it is substantiated, then that is my right, same as other's have the right to accept it as gospel, if that's the way they deem it. Tell me, or some of the others who have come rushing to her defense may be able to. When did what she is alleging happen, during or after the court case, that is the money angle said to have been offered for the family to be quiet?

And be quiet about what? If during the proceedings did she draw this to the attention of the prosecution, or even after, as if something did occur and it was in direct relationship to the trial, then there has a been an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Sure there is a lot of if's and but's however, if it was not drawn to anyone's attention, then why not?

And what if you told me, would I believe? Being a hypothetical question one really cannot provide an answer nor should one be expected.

[jacky54]

Just stop to criticize Thailand all the time! Its a commom sense allways to know it better! If someone is not happy with the things going on here,why not just leave?Nobody has to stay here its not a must.....we are all guests here and if we dont like the way it is, then just go back to your country.

And when back in your country then shure you start to criticize the goverment there and so it goes on and on?....

Let the Thai Police do there Job and enjoy the beautiful country here!

Unfortunately the dead cannot leave, and if we who criticized the laughable RTP 'investigation' and the farcical judicial process left nothing would change would it. The Thai Police and judiciary would still be corrupt and incompetent and visitors to mafia run dumps like Kho Tao would still be dying in mysterious ways that never seem to involve the Thais responsible. Thailand will always be a third world banana state if people do not challenge gross miscarriages of justice, corruption the need above all else to maintain the childishness of face. Thais need to wake up and see what is going on in their name, and do something about it.

Every deveolped country in the World was in a similar place of moral development to where Thailand is now.

Right- in about 1400 AD, not an excuse for the feudal system in Thailand and it's resulting corruption, nepotism and injustice.

[Nicolas32]

oh dear ...

[farcanell]

The 'unsubstantiated statement' is how the BIB got DNA test results in 12 hours.

I don't know how we've come to this but if you must go off on a tangent than do so but the so called collection and testing has nothing do do with an unsubstantiated statement. DNA testing is based on forensics and depending on tthe Lab, can take 3 to 5 days, not 12 hours and is then reported on. What happened here is beyond the pale, so what's your point in using this as a comparison?

What if I told you that "what if I told you" was her way of saying that something happened.... And whilst it may confuse some, it does not mean that it did not happen

What if I told you, would you believe me? It all goes together.

If guilty of anything, it is perhaps bad sentence structure

The full sentence she made was actually this "What if I told you that the thais offered us compensation to try and keep us quiet? Obviously we were absolutely appalled and told them to shove it."

Actually, she made several "what if I told you that..." Statements.... Now... Remove those first five words and re read the statement

Also, per my post 430 ( I think) under the Thai law entitled " wrong doers act" offering compensation is a method of dealing with victims of crime.... This practice was removed from the English judiciary a long time ago, (although there are still stand alone bodies that deal with compensation for victims of crime)

So the Thais acted normally... Or as normally as Thais do,

And again.... It could simply be that Laura's sentence structure could be improved, such as to remove the notion that she is making up tales, to satisfy your issues with wording, especially as most people are more than ready to believe the tales told

[Isitjustme]

Great editorial this morning in the paper which cannot be referenced. Titled "no time for intimidation", ironic that I was lead to it from Andy Halls Twitter feed. The guy who refuses to be intimidated. He should be the one given the opportunity to put this into words when it is all over.

Sickening from the start, but could the tide finally be turning?

Just read the article in the BK post, titled no time for intimidation, good read and great that the BK post has spoken out.

I see some hope for the B2 as anonymous, and Laura's brave stance has ruffled the feathers and the whole thai police/ justice system is now under world observation as being corrupt.

Great article. To think that these 'bribers' could have the temerity to believe they could assuage a family's grief and repugnance by dint of a few baht. They're used to dealing with a different kind of person, those ruled by fear or greed, or with no morals perhaps. Huge plaudits to the Witheridge family for showing exactly what they thought of this grubby little offer to reject the truth and bypass the law.

[farcanell]

b

Just stop to criticize Thailand all the time! Its a commom sense allways to know it better! If someone is not happy with the things going on here,why not just leave?Nobody has to stay here its not a must.....we are all guests here and if we dont like the way it is, then just go back to your country.

And when back in your country then shure you start to criticize the goverment there and so it goes on and on?....

Let the Thai Police do there Job and enjoy the beautiful country here!

Unfortunately the dead cannot leave, and if we who criticized the laughable RTP 'investigation' and the farcical judicial process left nothing would change would it. The Thai Police and judiciary would still be corrupt and incompetent and visitors to mafia run dumps like Kho Tao would still be dying in mysterious ways that never seem to involve the Thais responsible. Thailand will always be a third world banana state if people do not challenge gross miscarriages of justice, corruption the need above all else to maintain the childishness of face. Thais need to wake up and see what is going on in their name, and do something about it.

Every deveolped country in the World was in a similar place of moral development to where Thailand is now. The argument that 'this is how things are here, just get used to it' is just plain silly. Thailand will be dragged some way forward to the 21st century, with it's corrupt, immoral leaders and puyais kicking and screaming and causing plenty of collateral damage along the way. It's all a part of evolution.

Well, maybe. But it seems that it is taking 100s of years for Thailand to do what, a near neighbour, Singapore has done in 50 years?

Jacky 54, England developed a recognizable police force in the 1700's... Thailand already has one, so is a little more advanced than the feudal 1400's, and with the internet world and wider spread education ( most people in 1400 could not read or write), the countries of the world will reach social parity sooner than you seem to believe.

But Ivr181..... In response to the absurd comparison of Singapore to Thailand... What?

Singapore was almost completely destroyed by the Japanese in the Second World War, and its citizens were persecuted to near extinction.

It's recovery post WW2 was British led, and funded etc, until they could become self determined, so they had a huge springboard to begin there advancement to the model state that they have become... Previous to the war, they were as backward as any other contemporary.... Actually, the king of Siam was probably courted more than the ruler of a marshy island called Singapore.

Make comparisons, by all means... You have Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam to choose from, to highlight your point.... Except... That won't work very well, will it?

Edited January 16, 2016 by farcanell

[NCC1701A]

a day after the murders:

"The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

He also dismissed any suggestion of local mafias or influential people that could twist the investigation with promise that local influence would pose no obstacle to the police investigation.

Instead the police will eliminate all these mafias, he said.

Meanwhile a police source said the police are also looking into the cooperation of those who helped to arrange the suspect to escape. They also will be arrested."

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63714

[farcanell]

Farcenell

What if I told you that "what if I told you" was her way of saying that something happened.... And whilst it may confuse some, it does not mean that it did not happen

What if I told you, would you believe me? It all goes together.

If guilty of anything, it is perhaps bad sentence structure

Did I say anywhere that it did not happen? If I choose not to accept something, until it is substantiated, then that is my right, same as other's have the right to accept it as gospel, if that's the way they deem it. Tell me, or some of the others who have come rushing to her defense may be able to. When did what she is alleging happen, during or after the court case, that is the money angle said to have been offered for the family to be quiet?

And be quiet about what? If during the proceedings did she draw this to the attention of the prosecution, or even after, as if something did occur and it was in direct relationship to the trial, then there has a been an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Sure there is a lot of if's and but's however, if it was not drawn to anyone's attention, then why not?

And what if you told me, would I believe? Being a hypothetical question one really cannot provide an answer nor should one be expected.

Sidestepping, old son (post 385) "of course it's rumor, an unsubstantiated statement" implies ( strongly) that it did not happen

Try this..... "What if I told you,.... I was offered a bribe.... would you believe me? "

I find it hard that you can't put that together, such that it is not a hypothetical question, given the content of my post.... Now, what would your answer be ( assume for the sake of argument, she was addressing you, personally)

Now... Hypothetically would be the answer to your question... When did it happen.

She did not say, so we can only speculate.

For example... Offer of compensation while in Thailand.... Chased in her car in while in England....,Facebook defaced, while in England

But either way, the answer does not matter one iota....,because if you think her a liar, then the answer is pointless, and if you believe her, then you would be more about the sympathy and support, than the when and why of it

As to the bribe to keep her quiet... She may have been unaware of the Thai custom of financial compensation for victims of crime, so misconstrued the offer of compensation, for a bribe, which is not an attempt to pervert the course of justice, but an attempt to provide justice, under the Thai system

As to drawing it to the attention of others... Well.... She certainly seems to have, don't you think..... Your simply questioning the timing...,and once out of Thailand would be the best time to make comment, and undoubtedly, if she had mentioned it to a lawyer in Thailand, that would have been the answer, don't you think?

But... This is all conjecture, and will probably remain conjecture, as corroborating Thai witnesses will not sign an avid affidavit to these comments, and Thais won't go to Britain for an inquest, nor will she come back here (I hope) to partake in another charade.

IMHO, of course.

[sambum]

Just stop to criticize Thailand all the time! Its a commom sense allways to know it better! If someone is not happy with the things going on here,why not just leave?Nobody has to stay here its not a must.....we are all guests here and if we dont like the way it is, then just go back to your country.

And when back in your country then shure you start to criticize the goverment there and so it goes on and on?....

Let the Thai Police do there Job and enjoy the beautiful country here!

Unfortunately the dead cannot leave, and if we who criticized the laughable RTP 'investigation' and the farcical judicial process left nothing would change would it. The Thai Police and judiciary would still be corrupt and incompetent and visitors to mafia run dumps like Kho Tao would still be dying in mysterious ways that never seem to involve the Thais responsible. Thailand will always be a third world banana state if people do not challenge gross miscarriages of justice, corruption the need above all else to maintain the childishness of face. Thais need to wake up and see what is going on in their name, and do something about it.

Hear, hear! I am p*&^%d off with the same old line "if you don't like it here, go back to your own country" and as for "Let the Thai Police do there Job" - I will let that comment speak for itself!

[Krenjai]

Maybe this has been posted here already but here is a very good read of what DNA is all about from 007cableguy

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/886692-the-koh-tao-verdict-and-myanmar-migrant-worker-misery/#entry10312982

[Krenjai]

Anonymous hacks away 1 GB.......(download link available in the twitter post)

http://news.softpedia.com/news/anonymous-releases-1gb-of-data-from-supreme-court-of-thailand-498941.shtml?utm_content=bufferdd5fc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

The RTP must be getting under huge pressure but the Koh Tao verdict will stil stand up in the Appeals & Supreme Courts so they better prepare for a long battle with the Hacker Anonymous Group, which is a battle I wouldn't wish to have.......!

[Artisi]

This entire story, starting with the murders, has been the worst I have seen since my stay in Thailand.

Thais need to understand that there will be a best seller book wrote about this and they can't stop it so they better start thinking about how they want the story to end.

I think John Burdett would be well suited to write this Best Seller.

Fact will always out fiction so it should be an easy exercise for him to put the story together.

[TheLobster]

I don't think the defence need to razzle dazzle in the appeal (unless the same blinkers are employed). They just need to help the appeal judges see through the facade, for example from the trial report:

The results of the DNA tests on the exhibited cigarette butts indicated that the second defendant and Mr Mau Mau had smoked the exhibited cigarettes, which was confirmed by the testimonies of the two defendants that they took it in turns to smoke the same exhibited cigarettes. This indicates that the examination conducted by the Central Forensic Bureau was accurate and correct thus giving weight to the credibility of the test results and indicating that the test results are admissible.

[Si Thea01]

Farcenell

What if I told you that "what if I told you" was her way of saying that something happened.... And whilst it may confuse some, it does not mean that it did not happen

What if I told you, would you believe me? It all goes together.

If guilty of anything, it is perhaps bad sentence structure

Did I say anywhere that it did not happen? If I choose not to accept something, until it is substantiated, then that is my right, same as other's have the right to accept it as gospel, if that's the way they deem it. Tell me, or some of the others who have come rushing to her defense may be able to. When did what she is alleging happen, during or after the court case, that is the money angle said to have been offered for the family to be quiet?

And be quiet about what? If during the proceedings did she draw this to the attention of the prosecution, or even after, as if something did occur and it was in direct relationship to the trial, then there has a been an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Sure there is a lot of if's and but's however, if it was not drawn to anyone's attention, then why not?

And what if you told me, would I believe? Being a hypothetical question one really cannot provide an answer nor should one be expected.

Sidestepping, old son (post 385) "of course it's rumor, an unsubstantiated statement" implies ( strongly) that it did not happen

Try this..... "What if I told you,.... I was offered a bribe.... would you believe me? "

I find it hard that you can't put that together, such that it is not a hypothetical question, given the content of my post.... Now, what would your answer be ( assume for the sake of argument, she was addressing you, personally)

Now... Hypothetically would be the answer to your question... When did it happen.

She did not say, so we can only speculate.

For example... Offer of compensation while in Thailand.... Chased in her car in while in England....,Facebook defaced, while in England

But either way, the answer does not matter one iota....,because if you think her a liar, then the answer is pointless, and if you believe her, then you would be more about the sympathy and support, than the when and why of it

As to the bribe to keep her quiet... She may have been unaware of the Thai custom of financial compensation for victims of crime, so misconstrued the offer of compensation, for a bribe, which is not an attempt to pervert the course of justice, but an attempt to provide justice, under the Thai system

As to drawing it to the attention of others... Well.... She certainly seems to have, don't you think..... Your simply questioning the timing...,and once out of Thailand would be the best time to make comment, and undoubtedly, if she had mentioned it to a lawyer in Thailand, that would have been the answer, don't you think?

But... This is all conjecture, and will probably remain conjecture, as corroborating Thai witnesses will not sign an avid affidavit to these comments, and Thais won't go to Britain for an inquest, nor will she come back here (I hope) to partake in another charade.

IMHO, of course.

Not side stepping anything old fella. A rumour is a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts: As for unsubstantiated, it means something that is not supported or proven by evidence. So pray tell, how do you come to the conclusion that what I wrote implies (strongly) that it did not happen. So if one asks for something to be substantiated that is, to provide evidence to support or prove the truth of, then according to many on here, including yourself, it is an act of being callous, or in one case, vile and filthy and how dare one ask for it to be confirmed. Please do not twist the meaning of what I wrote and at least know what words mean before you criticise.

I do not have to beat around the bush and imply or allude to, assume or even make things up, I would come straight out and say if I did not believe her. Just understand, if you are able to, what I have said, as it in no way suggets what you have stated. And please do not use the word (liar) as I have not called anyone that nor alluded to it.

As for someone whom I do not know, telling me something, such as you outline, I think it would be highly unlikely to occur, so what answer would you like me to give? If it was a close associate, then I would accept it at face value but would still expect it to be substantiated. To allege something such as this, is a serious matter and not something to be scoffed at or have someone else offer an explanation as to why she may have erred in her FB post. You're only speculating, as most on here are also doing and that does not make it right.

I don't think you are quite right about an offer of compensation in Thailand either. Most people are not aware but there is actually, under the Thai criminal justice system, the Victim Compensation and Restitution for the Accused Person Act and it has been in force for about 12 years. This can only be paid to the parents or next of kin of the victim and is not offered, it has to be applied for. It is also handled through the prosecutors.

Now you are telling me she may have misinterpreted what was said, instead of being offered a bribe, it was meant to be compensation, for them to be quiet about what? The prosecution, rightly or wrongly, were able to bring the case to fruition, of which the result has been scorned by many so why would anyone offer the family money to be quiet. One would have thought, as the family of the victim, they would have believed that justice has been done.

You say that by asking when this offer was made and by whom, the answers would be of no consequence (my word), then you are utterly wrong. To know these answers would help to bolster the allegations made. So you think you know the Thai legal system, I'd suggest you don't because I can assure the legal profession is well aware of what the word compensation means and that is the word they would have used if they had advised the family of their rights to seek the same

Yet she was specific that they were offered a bribe to be quiet. So if they are entitled to claim then wouldn't you think, that by being offered a bribe to be quiet, which is vastly different to compensation, that she would have brought this to the attention of the prosecution and ultimately, the court, not now but when it occurred,either during or after the case. To offer some one, as she described, a bribe, that is illegal and would constitute perverting the course of justice, even if you do not think so and would not be in any way an attempt to provide justice under the Thai system. Now it it was under the legal system of legitimate compensation then one would hardly expect her to describe the incident as an attempt to bribe. I would be surprised if this young woman did not know the difference between the words, Bribe and Compensation and was unable to use them in the correct context.

Of course she has brought it to the attention of others but apparently not those involved in the legal process of the trail, at least not until she allegedly released the FB page. If she felt so strongly and is afraid of some type of retribution, from whom, god only knows, then there are avenues open to her, such as police protection, yet she has not indicated she sought any assistance in that regard. And no, I do not think it is the right time to bring this up, it should have been done when it was first allegedly put to them and not when the matter is in all likelihood heading for an appeal.

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And yes, It is sad that the family has suffered a loss, however, as I do not know them nor they me, therefore I am unable to offer suppor. Would you have someone do that for every death that occurs and there is no association. Yes, one can be sympathetic but that is where it ends.