How the people of Tonga got so darned obese

[Jingthing]

I ran out of time but I wanted to add that it CAN be useful for people to be aware of genetic tendencies IF they are known and IF the preventative actions they can take can be clearly communicated. For example diabetes. If you tell a child, you have a family history of diabetes, but if you manage your weight and exercise regularly you can greatly reduce the odds you will develop diabetes even WITH the genetic tendency, that can be VERY motivating!

Edited January 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[robblok]

I am not a geneticist. So I wouldn't be the person to ask for authoritative final answers about such things. I suggest if you're sincerely interested such things that you dig deeper. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread about the current state of gene therapy research related to the prevention and treatment of obesity. This thread isn't really that thread.

I think we can all agree that you can't go into a doctor NOW or take your baby into a doctor NOW and seek such gene therapy. As far as the future, and when in the future, I certainly don't know!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090309191858.htm

http://conscienhealth.org/2015/12/gene-therapy-for-obesity/

Anyway, I do think it is fair to say that genetics is a FACTOR (not the only factor, ONE FACTOR) in obesity for each individual, and each individual's genetic code is theirs so the extent of that factor will vary by individual. PERHAPS as indicated in the linked article in the OP some ETHNIC GROUPS have a larger percentage than "normal" of their population with such obesity promoting genetic factors.

To be clear, a person or an ethnic group PERHAPS having these genetic factors does not PREDETERMINE a lifetime of obesity, but arguably it DOES make it more likely when combined with person's behaviors and situation in life. In the case of modern Tonga, the current abundance of food, the popularity of foods like lamb fat tails and sugar sodas, and the traditional culture where obesity is associated with status and attractiveness. Take that same person with the same genes and raise him in a different culture where he behaves differently, very good chance that obesity wouldn't develop.

Jumping this a bit here, addressing the readers here who have or have had weight control issues, whether GENETIC FACTORS are a factor FOR US is a personal matter. I don't know how we would know for sure unless we went in and had our genetic code examined and the scientists could point out factors in it associated with obesity. I know a lot of people look at families ... were both parents obese? Do that prove anything scientifically about a genetic factor? I don't think so but people do look at that. It's interesting that for things that are fully accepted as clinical diseases, like diabetes, family history is taken very very seriously.

I agree its a factor, and I was sincere that I looked into gene therapy because I always thought you could not change your genes. The links you have given are nice.. but its all still not even close to being even tested on humans.

What you are saying and put in bold I can only agree with.

[Jingthing]

Depends on what is scientifically meant by "change" your genes. Gene therapy is a thing though. I can't begin to pretend that I am very knowledgeable on these matters, because I'm not. I don't see the point on focusing on gene therapy on this forum unless/until it becomes a thing that can practically help people to prevent or help in treatment of existing obesity. So we're not there, if we're ever there is an academic unknown matter.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[dontoearth]

Very similar to the American Indians. Hundreds of generations improving and surviving on often scarce food supplies led some to develop a phenomenal ability to store calories. Then modern junk food came along and the glut of calories leads to obesity and other health issues.

I saw a video about this a year or two ago. The indians were prohibited from eating buffalo meat which they are adept to from centuries of eating. You are correct now they eat corn chips, cheese dogs and drink pepsi by the gallon from Walmart. It has destroyed most people on the reservations. The documentary said some groups had as high as 80% diabetes. It was very sad. The documentary did not mention genetics. It laid the blame on junk food. You had to wonder tho.'

[JSixpack]

Very similar to the American Indians. Hundreds of generations improving and surviving on often scarce food supplies led some to develop a phenomenal ability to store calories. Then modern junk food came along and the glut of calories leads to obesity and other health issues.

I saw a video about this a year or two ago. The indians were prohibited from eating buffalo meat which they are adept to from centuries of eating. You are correct now they eat corn chips, cheese dogs and drink pepsi by the gallon from Walmart. It has destroyed most people on the reservations. The documentary said some groups had as high as 80% diabetes. It was very sad. The documentary did not mention genetics. It laid the blame on junk food. You had to wonder tho.'

No, I think if you look into it you'll find that the American Indians weren't fat even when they had plentiful supplies of food--their food. And not much exercise, as the Pueblo were notably lazy. Supplies became scarcest when newcomers, notably Anglo-Americans and Mexicans, created that scarcity. We're talking 1860s. Then by the late 1800s the Indians--Pima Indians a notable case in point--started to rely on government rations. So by around 1900 the Pima were obese from eating sugar, flour, and canned goods (which often contained sugar). Data exists on the Sioux to suggest that 50% of total calories came from sugar and flour. High carb, in other words. The Pima women got plenty of exercise, too.

No McDonalds back then. Better to look for the universal cause . . . .

[JSixpack]

But there is this: http://gizmodo.com/how-a-powerful-obesity-gene-helped-samoans-conquer-the-1784266550

[tropo]

On 1/20/2016 at 8:19 AM, robblok said:

 Actually your right.. they are in the article going on about the change in diet and how the mutton got them fat and how it was not unusual to eat 1kg of mutton in a sitting. They say that the change came around the same time as they changed their diet.

 

So its mainly about food but genes add in to it too, but as usual JT puts the blame mostly on something that is not possible to change and ignores the food part and the story about the guy that lost 70 kg by changing his diet.

 

But he is right genes do account for something, many islanders also make great bodybuilders (look at the rock). The same genes that make people fat also help with getting muscles. I am one of those guys.. easy to get fat.. but also (relatively) easy to get muscular. So again its not only outside influences but its what you do with the lot in life that you got.

 

The will to change and to take charge that is what separates failure and moaners from successful people.  But genes certainly account for a lot, take 2 people and both let them do hard exercise.. one will grow muscles the other won't but the one that won't usually does not get easy fat either. 

 

Once you know your limitations its up to yourself to live with it and adapt your life to it or moan about it and don't do a thing. 

 

But lets not be unfair here, if your in an environment where everyone is fat and its normal.. then people will accept it There is then not much effort to change, also change is hard if your a social person in such an environment. 

 

JT is always campaigning against fat shaming.. (he is right partly) but the acceptance of obesity calling it a disease and or accepting it as normal is also not the right way because then all motivation to change is gone. Just look at Tonga. Social pressure does help as we are a social species and in general want to fit in. So once you give obesity the disease status and accept it too much much of the pressure to change is taken away, of course we should not go to the other extreme too and put obese people down all the time. 

Having lived and trained in Auckland for many years, I'm very familiar with Maoris, Samoans and Tongans in the gym as I used to train with them. You say they can gain muscle quickly. Actually, even if they are fat, most of them have ready made muscles care of mother nature. I've seen an Islander push 300 lbs on the bench who never worked out in the gym before. He just muscled it up! ... and then wondered what all the fuss was about as we stood there, mouths agape. Those days a 300 lb bench press was a distant dream for me and my training partners.

 

Many of them gain muscle so easily that they are usually the lazier guys (more like relaxed actually) in the gym, wondering why the rest of us pencil-necks train so hard LOL. (I was a pencil neck back then, in my teens and early 20's). Their strength stems from a very sturdy skeletal structure too. They are like bulldozers on the rugby field - you don't want to get in their way, trust me. They don't feel pain.

Edited August 5, 2016 by tropo