Question for those who have lived in Thailand for a few years

[alfieconn]

Food for thought on Chiang Mai, how many people do people know that have moved from Chiang Mai to other parts of Thailand and how many people do people know that have moved from other parts of Thailand to Chiang Mai, now taking into consideration that Chiang Mai only takes up a very small percentage of Thailand then the answers to the above should tell people something about Chiang Mai.

[alfieconn]

Everyone is focusing on the wrong thing.

Just visiting Chiang Mai last month will not inform you about one of the most important aspects of living here: the people.

I don’t know if you have lived in Thailand before (it appears not) and I am not sure if you have determined with certainty that this is where you want to spend your retirement, but here’s my 2 baht worth:

Sure, Chiang Mai has a nice environment, malls, infrastructure and whatnot, but there are more important issues you need to seriously consider.

You live in Florida and mix with people who are native English speaker s who are well educated and savvy about world affairs. Workmen and craftsmen are professionals and generally take pride in their work. When problems arise between customers and merchants or professionals, there is some reliable resource of complaint and redress (such as the Better Business Bureau, and other consumer protection agencies).

When you move to Thailand, you will enter a completely different world. Thai people’s average IQ is lower than the global average (and yours) – you can check this out. (This is not necessarily their fault; the education system here is lamentably poor.) And that figure only speaks to Thai people who took an IQ test; it does not address the vast number of Thai people who have never been tested and are undereducated.

I expect that you enjoy a good discussion with your friends and girlfriend about global issues and other topics of general interest. But when you move to Thailand, that will pretty much end.

Be it a Thai neighbor, friend or girlfriend (very few retirees stay in Thailand alone), this is the kind of conversation you can look forward to (and this assumes the person you are talking to can even speak English – and I am assuming you don’t know how to speak Thai):

321Rich: “Did you see the price of oil yesterday? It’s amazing how much it’s dropped over the last year.“

Thai GF: (Silence)

321Rich: “You know the US lifted sanctions on Iran… (Next 5 minutes spent dumbing down explaining “sanctions,” “nuclear bomb,” etc)

Thai GF: “Uh, okay.”

321Rich: “Now they will be able to sell their oil, starting with all those supertankers just sitting there full.”

Thai GF: “What’s a ‘supertanker’?” (More “walking dictionary” work)

321Rich: “What do you think that will do to the price of oil?”

Thai GF: “I don’t know.”

321Rich: “Oh, well…I guess it’s good for gasoline prices but the stock markets – what about that?”

Thai GF: “I don’t know.”

Pick a subject:

Dropping price of oil – how this affects global economy – currencies/What about that Donald Trump?/What about those Warriors this season?/What’s wrong with Man United this season?/Global warming – can anyone really deny we are a prime cause?/Will Thailand return to democracy?/Is Russia really bombing IS in Syria or them and the enemies of Assad?/Will Britain sanction Putin over the inquiry into the poisoning of the ex-Russian spy?…you get the idea.

The response you will get from a Thai will mostly be: “I don’t know.” (Meaning, “I don’t know” or “I don’t understand what you are even talking about.”)

Ask about basic science, geography or general world history and you will also get a raft of, “I don’t knows.”

The fact is that the Thais, generally, do not have the knowledge set to conduct not only a thoughtful discussion on current events, but because they lack inquisitiveness and abstract thought, it is difficult if not impossible to have a conversation based on theory with them.

So, for example, if you want to talk about the obstacles of manned, deep space travel and the possibility of going to Mars, forget it. If you want to have a speculative discussion on what the world would be like if we had never stopped going to the Moon, good luck with that.

You will also never be able to use any colloquialisms (again, assuming the other person can speak English fairly well) again or references to pop culture. No Breaking Bad references, no slang, no sarcasm and no innuendo, to name but a few examples.

But let me be clear, this is not an issue of, "They don't understand because of the language problem." Even if you posed the same example questions in Thai the response would mostly be the same, "I don't know."

However, if you ask a Thai which of their chickens eats the most, you will get a direct answer. …

Look at the Thai “entertainment” shows on local TV as a reference. These are mainstay programs that are geared to the absolute lowest denominator. And they are popular. Puerile humor, mindless slapstick and funny costumes rule.

Socially, you will be an outsider. A tolerated alien, but never an insider; never “one of us.” That may not be an issue for you, but it’s always there.

So for stimulating conversation, you will have to seek out other aliens, but you may find that they are not always in tune with your thinking or lifestyle. Some men I have met over the last 10 years here only want to sit around and drink and talk about football and banging chicks. Some groups of older folks never really seem to understand they are in a foreign country and spend more of their time bitching about things in “backward” Thailand and the way it was back home.

Of course you will find a handful of people (if you search long enough and in the right places) with whom you can converse comfortably and interestingly. But it won’t be the same as in Florida.

Thais are also quite unreliable. If I had a nickel for every time a Thai person broke their word to me, I’d be rich. Thais also generally will not be considerate of you if they decide, for whatever reason, not to come when scheduled – and this is true among Thais themselves too. Instead of calling you to tell you they can’t come, they will usually just not show up. Or if they do come at all, they could be hours late.

Thais are also not very observant. This can manifest itself in work done, be it selling you something that doesn’t fit or making repairs, or just their daily life. (“Oh, here, this part will work.” “But that will clearly not fit.” “Oh, yes, it will.” You take it home and of course, it doesn’t fit.). Of course this example could really fall under what I call, "Hammering the screw," whereby Thais just can't be bothered to do it correctly because they don't care or, "This might work, but probably not, but I'll do it anyway," mentality. "Maybe you should use the screwdriver that is sitting two feet away from you?" "Uhhh."

(Recent example: I just had a flush toilet replaced with a new one and after the workman finished installing it, I pointed out to him that it was at least 30 degrees off true from the wall. “Look at this; it’s not straight. Do you see?” He did, with a puzzled, then mildly bewildered look and then that ‘Uh, oh well’ Thai smile. It did not occur to him that the toilet should be perpendicular to the wall (although he’s seen it that way all his life). After I left him to correct it, I returned to find the toilet now at an angle of only about 5 degrees off true – just enough to be irritating every time you look at it.)

And on the topic of language, few if any expats take the time and effort to learn to read, write and speak Thai before they move here (Yes, I am sure it has happened, but it’s pretty rare). So in addition to the above, you will be hobbled by the language barrier. One thing you will find retirees often resorting to is instead of going to classes and actually learning the language of the country they are now calling home, they will dumb down their English in a misguided effort to make it “easier” to communicate. Personally, I find it pathetic and demeaning when I see older men, most of whom likely have a high education and probably had a decent career, speaking like a caveman.

“I go store. I no want you go. You wait me come back.”

The fact is that if a Thai can understand that, they can understand that with the necessary grammar as well. I find it depressing to see a gentleman in the twilight of his life moving to a place where he can’t communicate with the local population, and when he does, he must resort to language hardly befitting a toddler in his own country. Subjects of discussion now center around local and tangible situations – what to buy, where to eat, how to pay the bill, when the tuk-tuk will come, etc.

And lastly, Thais, like many other peoples, have nearly no sense of protecting the environment and little concept that littering is a bad thing. If living with strewn litter – on the streets, along sidewalks, in gutters, vacant lots (pretty much everywhere you can think of) – bothers you greatly, this could be an issue.

So, I believe that moving to Chiang Mai (or anywhere in Thailand) must also encompass these issues, not only whether there is periodic air pollution and so on. You really need to think about what social environment you may be getting yourself into. Chiang Mai and Thailand are not simply "real estate," they come with the population, that should be considered carefully.

Having said that, most people who have lived in both the South and North of Thailand prefer those in the North. Calmer, more level headed, easier going and less prone to violence.

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Before all the detractors pile on, let me make some clarifications.

For anyone whose comment goes: “Well, if you dislike the Thais that much, why don’t you leave?” Let me say that that is not an argument; it’s a slogan, a pablum. It is a worthless comment. And I never said I don’t like Thais.

For those who will say: “My girlfriend has great English and knows a lot,” I will say: good for you. But the fact is that, just as you can find someone who is 195cm tall, it’s not impossible to find a good conversationalist here, but just not very often. Just as you are most likely to meet someone who is average in height, you are more apt to meet someone with average abilities. There are certainly Thais out there who are educated and well spoken. Hopefully, it is obvious that I do not mean “every Thai,” but rather the average Thai.

For those who will say, “That’s just being racist and sanctimonious,” I have to disagree. It is what it is. Thai people do not intentionally act this way; it is simply a function of their culture, education and upbringing.

Seems you have probably wasted 2 hours of your life on going off topic as it is totally irrelevant to what the OP was asking which was :

Would you be living in the same city or some other area of Thailand?

[JaseTheBass]

I had a monumental time in Bangkok when I was single (ish), especially when I was part of the Old Bangkok Bangers RFC. And now I have my wife and I wouldn't change her for the world.

The only reservation I have is living in Thailand trying to raise a family as I don't want to fail him and have him grow up ignorant and stupid.

My boss recently asked me where would I live in Thailand if I left Chiang Mai. Apart from Bangkok where its easier to find reasonable staff, I have no idea. I guess it makes little difference and living here is easy, so I'll stay put for now.

[JaseTheBass]

only complaints; did not move earlier and did not take language lessons before moving.

Unless you're desperate to talk about noodles, som tam and other 3rd rate fayre you're not missing out on anything.

[graexx]

I would suggest Bali; not Thailand, because the Bali locals have less of the "we don't like tourists and expats" attitude. I think that Thai people are somewhat anti-foreigner because they are ashamed and angry at the overt prostitution in Thailand. Whereas, in Bali, prostitution is much more discreet, so the locals don't feel like they're selling out to the tourists and expats. You can have a real conversation with Bali locals - but in Thailand it's not so easy because of (a) the very difficult Thai language, and ( the shame the Thais feel about the overt prostitution aimed at tourists and expats.

The other problem you may find in Thailand is that many of the expats are somewhat bitter - I think they may have had some difficulties in their home country and brought that with them to Thailand. Some of he expats in Bali have some bitterness too, but it's less prevalent - at least that's what I find.

[Inyourendo]

The best thing about Thailand is leaving...

[thaiduncankk]

The best thing about Thailand is leaving...

If you dislike it, why do you waste times on Thailand forums ?

[Inyourendo]

The best thing about Thailand is leaving...

If you dislike it, why do you waste times on Thailand forums ?

family....still havevto return every now and again

[ableguy]

Hua hin has everything a westerner needs at your age, good hospitals etc, but the town is expensive.

I live in Korat ( Nakhon Ratchasima ) very good hospitals , clean air shops for Western foods good looking chicks for eye grazing and relatively cheap to buy or rent. Does get hot though, moved here from Hua Hin no regrets.

[fey]

i would vote for chiang rai, but not sure of the air quality.

[fey]

Cyberdude, if you are up for it please pm me with where to meet older folks in CM.

Thanks

mad dog on moon muang road.

i go there when i want to feel young again.

[mcfish]

I lived in the NorthEast, Nakhon Phanom area for several years. Now I live in Vientiane, Laos. If I had know how nice life is here in Vientiane, I would have moved here much sooner. Life is easier here, visas are easier, western amenities are plentiful. I'll never live in Thailand again. A nice place to visit, but Thailand makes everything more difficult for foreigners. Compared to Laos, Thailand is anti-foreigner. If you want to start a business, do it in Laos, not Thailand.

The fact you squeezed in an off topic post about the arm pit of Asia says to me your desperately trying to justify your move...laos? Yuk!

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[WinnieTheKhwai]

i would vote for chiang rai, but not sure of the air quality.

It's in Northern Thailand, so it follows the same pattern of being very fine most months, but sucking badly around March. And it's typically a lot worse in March. (Same for Mae Hong Son and other areas closer to Burma, China, etc.

[amexpat]

Hua hin has everything a westerner needs at your age, good hospitals etc, but the town is expensive.

I live in Korat ( Nakhon Ratchasima ) very good hospitals , clean air shops for Western foods good looking chicks for eye grazing and relatively cheap to buy or rent. Does get hot though, moved here from Hua Hin no regrets.

You mean housing, right?