Frustrations in Thailand!

[richard_smith237]

My singular and most grudging frustration while living in Thailand is the complete lack of consideration for someone else safety by the majority.

This manifests itself primarily with people in car's and motorcycles vs pedestrians and is exacerbated by the dumfoundinly idiotic authorities for placing ridiculous objects on the pavements...

Pushing my Son to the BTS (5-10m walk) in his push-chair is almost an impossibility without being forced to walk down the road and negotiating the Motorcycles and Cars squeezing and whizzing by.

Consequently, when I'm with my Son I find myself driving to most places even if nearby simply to avoid the gauntlet that is Bangkok's roads as a pedestrian.

[Laughing Gravy]

I hate what I call the "Mai Me" Syndrome. It's when you are looking for a particular item, say a drug in a pharmacy or something in a hardware store....When you ask a Thai salesperson or employee they respond with Mai Me or No have.....Then 90% of the time you find the item yourself. Thats when I make a point showing them. Loss of face? sometimes. Mostly they are just lazy......

I learnt about this years ago. A similar story. was in Pattaya on holiday, as I live in Bangkok. I needed some Tiger balm so I went into a large store. I asked the lady working there politely in Thai where it was in Thai. She replied that they didn't sell it and went to walk away. At that point as she moved I saw it behind her. I then asked how long she had worked there in the assumption she was new. 7 years was the reply. When I pointed that it was right behind her, she stated that "it wasn't her aisle". Go figure.

Saving face is often an excuse for stupidity and not taking responsibility.

[subterminalvelocity]

Wise words using "Farang in a bar" as an example...B grade rubbish.

Edited January 22, 2016 by subterminalvelocity

[NoshowJones]

There is no perfect world. If you like to stay in Thailand, you need to follow their rules.

If I don't agree with anyones rules in Thailand or anywhere else, then I will not obey them if I can get away with it.

If you want to obey everyones rules, then why bother getting out of bed in the morning?

[Guest]

My key frustration in Thailand is the lack of awareness foreign visitors have.

It seems that they have no idea that the world is a big place, and contains many different cultures who manage life in different ways.

The mystery is why a person would leave the place they are from, thinking … “I can find a new place that is different and better…”

Then arrive on a new shore with nothing but complaints that “It ain’t like home!”

This complete lack of logic makes foreigners look like whining spoiled children who do not understand it “is not all about you.”

Really … if Aunt Sally’s porridge is simply the best, and no other food compares.. and all other food is … in your opinion “crap” … for the love of God …STAY WITH AUNT SALLY!

In summary .. there is much to learn in travel to other cultures, but to learn from them requires an ego-less exercise in humility and an open mind. Features sorely lacking in the Thai Visa world, and troubling to many Thais.

Instead of closing with a “Love it or leave it” statement .. let me offer some advice.

Look in the mirror.
Ask yourself, “Do I want to be happy and have a good day?”
If the answer is “yes’ .. you are in luck … for Thailand is full of good people and good places, and your mission … should you decide to accept it .. is:

Just spend a day playing this game. Every person you meet, look at them, and instead of turning on your internal judgment engine and finding fault .. find something good in them.

There is something good about every one of us .. and frankly .. much more in the average Thai than the average Westerner .. which is why I love living in the Kingdom.

Oh .. and if the answer to “Do I want to be happy and have a good day?” is “No” .. then I look forward to your cynical and mean spirited reply.

OK, I have a lovely Sunday planned, and am thanking my lucky stars I live in The Kingdom !!

[NoshowJones]

When I first came here, what I found frustrating was when I would ask a question, and if the other party did not know the answer, then they would not respond.

It took a while for my wife to grasp the concept of "I do not know" is an acceptable answer to me...she will never say that to another Thai, at least for anything important.

How I finally got it through was to explain that she is no more "stupid" for not knowing the answer, than I am for having to ask the question. That, and telling her the "business" response: "I do not know, but I will get the answer for you".

In answer to your first paragraph, in my experience, the Thais will just tell you what you want to hear. Their answer to everything is nearly always "yes".

[NoshowJones]

This 10th rate article is written by a sexpat. So whilst we can't expect it to be too cerebral, we could hope that the people at Thai Visa don't reproduce this sort of tripe to cause some sort of anti-Thai discussion.

Agree that the author sounds like a sexpat. He doesn't seem to understand that a female ignoring him may have nothing to do with face, but rather that she's repulsed by him. This actually happened to my GF recently: She was walking down Nimman alone and some farang guy stopped her to ask for directions to some restaurant. After she told him, he asked her "You want to come?" She looked at him with shock and just turned and walked away without saying a word. Maybe that's what the author was talking about.

Yeah - that happens a lot.

Low class sexpats thinking every Thai gal is just waiting for a few Baht for a bunk-up.

Once, I went out for an early morning burn up on a big bike with my wife. We ended up at 8am at Starbucks - I went in, she sat outside on the bike nursing the helmets (we decided to have our coffees in the park).

Some classy fella went up to her at 8am and asked her for how much for a short time. I mean - for heaven's sake - you'd think at least a smile and a hello first - but nope "how much for a shag, love".... Charming.

So it's not a shock that Thai women look down on people when they get this treatment.

For good or worse - my wife now holds opinions of western men based on their appearance. This is mostly because she's witnessed the worse behavior from scruff guys with beer bellies and wife beaters. Not that I agree to judge people by their looks - but you can hardly blame them.

So yeah - I agree - old "Pattaya Sleuth" probably looks as classy as he sounds.

I am not a monger, and never use prostitutes, but if I did, I would wait for them to come to me.

Nobody should ever approach a girl assuming they are on the game, it is just so wrong.

[TheKnave]

Thailand is the 6th country I have lived in.

Each of those countries had different cultures and their own idiosyncrasies.

This 10th rate article is written by a sexpat. So whilst we can't expect it to be too cerebral, we could hope that the people at Thai Visa don't reproduce this sort of tripe to cause some sort of anti-Thai discussion.

Thailand is an easy place to live. You are welcome to leave any time. You fit in with the culture of the host country. I lived in Japan for over a year and I can tell you that Thailand is a much easier culture to adapt to.

If the author of the article actually knew Thailand a little better, he may find that in many establishments, if a server gets an order wrong, then they end up paying for the order. This is not unique to Thailand.

I was with my family in Hoi An once and amongst the many dishes we ordered came a dish that admittedly sounded like the one I ordered but was something else. The girl disagreed initially but eventually took it back with a smile. We later spotted someone consoling her as she was crying close to the cashiers till. We pulled over another waitress and I asked "will she have to pay for the dish we sent back?" and she told us that she would. So we pulled the girl over and told her to add it to our bill. By that time we were full anyway, so we told them they could eat it themselves if they liked. Cost to us - about $10. Cost to her - a days wages.

I wouldn't do this all the time - but she was a nice girl, service was good.

So sometimes, the reason for someone disagreeing that they made a mistake is not so much face but the fact that they stand to lose a significant amount of their days earnings for making a mistake at work.

Some people though - they just drift through this country with only a superficial knowledge of what is going on around them.

So not quite the "Sleuth" ht thinks he is...

Please define "sexpat", and tell us how you know the author is one, and also tell us why such a person is unlikely to write a 'cerebral' article.

Expect follow-up questions.

[Snackbar]

No such thing as saving face. Just some bull white skinned idiots pinned to justify some yellow skinned idiots behavior.

We're all flawed characters. White skinned idiots laugh it off. Yellow skinned idiots laugh it off. Everyday yellow skinned idiots look ridiculous. They are animals. See the white skinned buffoons looking like idiots. They are animals.

Suggest the op is this or that proves you're an idiot too.

Losing face haaa. Complete garbage, they think we're stupid. I think they're idiots.

[Doc46]

The reporter's girlfriend is "by definition a female"

What does that mean exactly?

Relating to the sex that can produce young or lay eggs,,,,,So she could be a Parrot or a talking Minor bird,,,

[albyom]

I am very surprise from the low level in here.

Talking about culture in a country where there is not culture but only blind traditions.

There is very little to love about thai superficiality and set of believes.

Looks like that many farangs in here are pretty well set with all the nonsense that is taking place in this country.

Probably some people are fine with it because they are at their same level ...... empty people with not substance

Edited January 24, 2016 by albyom

[Tchooptip]

The reporter's girlfriend is "by definition a female"

What does that mean exactly?

It is a perfect figure of speech so no way to criticise it. ...Oh sorry we are on ThaiVisa

[Suradit69]

The idea of 'face' It's part of Thai culture and we must respect it (when in Thailand)

Okay, so Thais have face. I hear so often from people that Thais are the nicest people in the world (there are good ones and bad ones same as anywhere). Thais are the nicest people in the world but don't piss them off. They have this ever so endearing part of their culture called 'face'. And if you piss them off, deliberately or otherwise, you could end up in a world of pain. It's fair, right?

I hear stories of rude foreigners making some local Thais lose face and then the foreigners getting a good beating. This apparently is fair 'cos we're in Thailand and they made them lose face. Sorry, but I absolutely don't agree.

It sounds to me like there are some very angry people who are just waiting to explode. Being sworn at or having some foreigner put his foot somewhere they shouldn't doesn't justify violence; in fact, not a lot does. It's a cop out excuse to release your anger. Hide behind face and many Thais and foreigners alike will say "That's fair"

'The idea of 'face' It's part of Thai culture and we must respect it (when in Thailand)"

The idea of loss of face is a bigger problem among farangs, but they seem blind to it. A large number of the threads on Thai Visa and comments following the O/P involve farang fears of loss of face. This is probably the first time many find themselves in a minority and can't fathom that everything is not about them. Of course, it's always a matter of principle or some other lofty term when khun farang gets his knickers in a knot.

Most of the mass shootings, domestic violence & rampany divorce, violence in schools, road rage incidents, military adventurism and political rants back in farang land are fueled by loss of face or a bruised sense of entitlement. Always amazing that so many don't see this on their home turf, but suddenly become aware of mostly trivial examples here.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Suradit69

[Tchooptip]

There is no perfect world. If you like to stay in Thailand, you need to follow their rules.

I do not "need"to follow their rules since I follow them easily and I dare say naturally

[Tchooptip]

The idea of 'face' It's part of Thai culture and we must respect it (when in Thailand)

Okay, so Thais have face. I hear so often from people that Thais are the nicest people in the world (there are good ones and bad ones same as anywhere). Thais are the nicest people in the world but don't piss them off. They have this ever so endearing part of their culture called 'face'. And if you piss them off, deliberately or otherwise, you could end up in a world of pain. It's fair, right?

I hear stories of rude foreigners making some local Thais lose face and then the foreigners getting a good beating. This apparently is fair 'cos we're in Thailand and they made them lose face. Sorry, but I absolutely don't agree.

It sounds to me like there are some very angry people who are just waiting to explode. Being sworn at or having some foreigner put his foot somewhere they shouldn't doesn't justify violence; in fact, not a lot does. It's a cop out excuse to release your anger. Hide behind face and many Thais and foreigners alike will say "That's fair"

'The idea of 'face' It's part of Thai culture and we must respect it (when in Thailand)"

The idea of loss of face is a bigger problem among farangs, but they seem blind to it. A large number of the threads on Thai Visa and comments following the O/P involve farang fears of loss of face. This is probably the first time many find themselves in a minority and can't fathom that everything is not about them.

Most of the mass shootings, violence in schools, road rage incidents, military adventurism and political rants back in farang land are fueled by loss of face or a bruised sense of entitlement. Always amazing that so many don't see this on their home turf, but suddenly become aware of mostly trivial examples here.

"The idea of loss of face is a bigger problem among farangs, but they seem blind to it"

Nothing more to say

[gemguy]

Although a lot of what the OP says is relevant to dealing with the Thais and their silly face saving mentality there are more than enough situations where you have to pull a Western style face save on the Thais that are trying to save face while the western style face saving supersedes the Thai face saving.

When you recognize total ineptness and or who exactly screwed up big time, causing a huge problem for you or others, then the Thai facing concept will be quickly trashed especially if their face saving BS is doing you harm or losing you significant sums of money or their laziness and or feigned to be ignorance or using their "supposed" misunderstanding as an excuse and in effect their way to save face for themselves is superseded by your reluctance or refusal to except their face saving mentality.....and their obvious attempts to avoid accountability or responsibility.

Especially in business related matters where that Thai face saving BS should not be tolerated or accepted.

In other words: You are fired ...or.... You are not going to be paid for what you screwed up on ....and or: NO, not acceptable ...or ...You will take the blame for this and no one else...end of conversation.

Concerning business matters sometimes and or all too often you have to trash that Thai face saving concept and get to the root of the problem being created and who exactly caused the problem and do not let Thai face saving mentality get in the way.

Cheers

[albyom]

Is not only about loosing face mentality, I personally find it hard to hold a decent conversation with most of Thais about any subjects.

They are simply so fake ... just pretentious & insincere.

Luck of Honesty-Integrity ---- Luck of Intellectual Curiosity and Substance ------ incapability of compromise...or just giving up.

[Petchou]

The reporter's girlfriend is "by definition a female"

What does that mean exactly?

He is making sure that everyone get it, he doesn't have a ladyboy girlfriend as it's common. :-)

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[Shazdeb]

hahahaha First I love this Country and wish to never leave. However even after 5 yrs the " saving face " still amazes me or at least the Thai understanding of what constitutes saving face, i would think to save face is to be honest and not look or be dishonest, so I dont get how lying is considered saving face, besides there is no dishonor or shame in admitting you dont know something, no one knows every thing. and this " you cant raise your voice and yell at people " however the Thai people can, my staff scream at each other all the time but if i raise my voice I get told calm down you cant do like this LOL my laundry service came yelling at me about a problem that was there fault, he got right in my face screaming and being rude straight off while i was being nice and smiling, So i gave it back to him and he took offence , he was shocked and insulted !!

As i said i may find it baffling but I accept it, its a small price to pay to live here and helps keep things interesting

[MauiSteveBKK]

By Definition, I am a Male.

And My Mother told me I was "Special".

[gandalf12]

I agree we, as non-Thai's, should respect the Thai culture. However, as paying guests in the country Thai's should try and understand our culture. To walk away when someone has asked you a question is rude, maybe not in Thai culture (but I know it is) but in any culture.

You earn respect, it is not a right to be given it and Thailand needs to understand this.

Having said that I have never experienced any rudeness from the Thai's but maybe that is because I don't spend my time around the "tourist" locations

[wabothai]

When I am disrespected I will let them know, and I don't care what they think.

[soc]

The reporter's girlfriend is "by definition a female"

What does that mean exactly?

Don't you know that women are never wrong?

Any nationality, not just Thailand.

Quote:-

"Women and cats will do as they please, men and dogs will just have to get used to it"!

[soc]

Thailand is the 6th country I have lived in.

Each of those countries had different cultures and their own idiosyncrasies.

This 10th rate article is written by a sexpat. So whilst we can't expect it to be too cerebral, we could hope that the people at Thai Visa don't reproduce this sort of tripe to cause some sort of anti-Thai discussion.

Thailand is an easy place to live. You are welcome to leave any time. You fit in with the culture of the host country. I lived in Japan for over a year and I can tell you that Thailand is a much easier culture to adapt to.

If the author of the article actually knew Thailand a little better, he may find that in many establishments, if a server gets an order wrong, then they end up paying for the order. This is not unique to Thailand.

I was with my family in Hoi An once and amongst the many dishes we ordered came a dish that admittedly sounded like the one I ordered but was something else. The girl disagreed initially but eventually took it back with a smile. We later spotted someone consoling her as she was crying close to the cashiers till. We pulled over another waitress and I asked "will she have to pay for the dish we sent back?" and she told us that she would. So we pulled the girl over and told her to add it to our bill. By that time we were full anyway, so we told them they could eat it themselves if they liked. Cost to us - about $10. Cost to her - a days wages.

I wouldn't do this all the time - but she was a nice girl, service was good.

So sometimes, the reason for someone disagreeing that they made a mistake is not so much face but the fact that they stand to lose a significant amount of their days earnings for making a mistake at work.

Some people though - they just drift through this country with only a superficial knowledge of what is going on around them.

So not quite the "Sleuth" ht thinks he is...

That was very honourable of you.

l would do the same

Actually a friend & l were in a restaurant & we received the wrong order.

He was going to complain but l convinced him to just eat it anyway & not make a fuss.

lt was still good food, just not what we had ordered.

l didn't know that she would have to pay for her mistake though.

Glad now that we didn't complain.

So little to us, so much to her.

[1FinickyOne]

Well, I think you have 2-3 issues here...

1. Saving face, it is not just a Thai or Asian thing... I see it in Westerners in their home country all the time... which you define in connection with importance... and in the western world, people show up at a party late, leave early - just to show important they are... people are always talking about how "busy" they are as if a medal of honor.. not having time is a sign of busy-ness equals importance...

2. Thai saying "yes" to questions - well, this is a Thai thing and can cause confusion - some see it as impolite to say no - it is confrontational - and if you can speak Thai they may start the answer with "yes" and then proceed to explain the opposite, contradicting themselves but having done it as a polite gesture or just a word stutter maybe, the way some people in the west might say "Uh," before answering a question... and some just may not know the answer but yes is more agreeable than saying they don't know. Many are just not used to be questioned and do not really know an appropriate response, especially in the coutnry-side talking with a foreigner.. This is quite a complex subject....

3. Spouses being told they are wrong - what they hear is you saying.... "I am perfect and you screwed up" - so, just wait for the next time you screw up - in their eyes.

This goes for friends and most humans too... Nobody wants to hear about when they screwed up- the more minor it is, probably the more they will be certain to take aim and let you know when you are in error... Criticism kills relationships. Criticism kills love. If it is about something very minor, live with it, hope they will do the same and I hope you will proceed in harmony...

[1FinickyOne]

I agree we, as non-Thai's, should respect the Thai culture. However, as paying guests in the country Thai's should try and understand our culture. To walk away when someone has asked you a question is rude, maybe not in Thai culture (but I know it is) but in any culture.

You earn respect, it is not a right to be given it and Thailand needs to understand this.

Having said that I have never experienced any rudeness from the Thai's but maybe that is because I don't spend my time around the "tourist" locations

There are many different cultures that visit and live here - would you think that a Thai should learn all of the customs of every culture in the world, be able to discern which culture the person is from and adapt their behaviour accordingly?

Sounds a bit above the pay scale of a typical waitress...

I do very much agree with you too - I live outside of tourist areas and find people to be very polite...

[lostinisaan]

The guy had ordered a coffee but was given a Chang beer.

The guy had ordered a girl but was given a ladyboy. Bullocks.

[lostinisaan]

The reporter's girlfriend is "by definition a female"

What does that mean exactly?

Don't you know that women are never wrong?

Any nationality, not just Thailand.

Quote:-

"Women and cats will do as they please, men and dogs will just have to get used to it"!

Some cats are Pussys. Some men on this forum as well. But only girls have one.

[TuskegeeBen]

I agree we, as non-Thai's, should respect the Thai culture. However, as paying guests in the country Thai's should try and understand our culture. To walk away when someone has asked you a question is rude, maybe not in Thai culture (but I know it is) but in any culture.

You earn respect, it is not a right to be given it and Thailand needs to understand this.

Having said that I have never experienced any rudeness from the Thai's but maybe that is because I don't spend my time around the "tourist" locations

That last sentence is a typical high-horse riding, judgmental comment, on your part, sir. You have never experienced any rudeness from the Thai's? I suppose the recognition factors require an astute level of aesthetic awareness.

Edited January 24, 2016 by TuskegeeBen